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00:00
RELOAD!
[Cardshifter/Cardshifter] 3 commits. 2 issue comments.
[retailcoder/Rubberduck] 8 commits. 4 opened issues. 4 closed issues. 5 issue comments.
Okay. Good. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, other than the class that's built specifically to do what I'm doing.
00:16
@RubberDuck that WP account now feeds the top section of the "News" page on rubberduck-vba.com
Oh! Nice!
damn I hate WP
I can't find anything anywhere :(
00:44
bah, it looks about right. leaving it as is
00:56
> The words "schedule" and "cost" are more sobering than coffee and a cold shower. Many "must haves" will quickly turn into "Nice to haves"
I actually lul'd.
01:14
@RubberDuck what's your WP username?
nevermind, of course it's ckuhn203!
I just sent you an invite for contributing to rubberduckvba / RD news
not sure how it works, but if I get this right I believe that would enable you to post directly on the RD news blog.. right?
I think so. I don't know. Never did that before.
It says I can create and edit, but you have to publish. That's pretty cool.
now you can just publish whatever whenever - changed from contributor to author
01:44
Oh. Nifty.
So, we think we're solid on 1.2 now? Like, build the installer and run it through the gammet?
I'd like to run it a little more, hold on a bit
 
1 hour later…
03:15
Project: Foundation; Module: ControlLayout; Selection: Start: L18C35 End: L18C41; Result: Parameter 'formControl' is passed ByRef implicitly (Warning)
Project: Foundation; Module: ControlLayout; Selection: Start: L18C17 End: L18C24; Result: Parameter 'form' is passed ByRef implicitly (Warning)
Project: Foundation; Module: ValueSelectorView; Selection: Start: L141C52 End: L141C58; Result: Parameter 'CloseMode' is passed ByRef implicitly (Warning)
Project: Foundation; Module: ValueSelectorView; Selection: Start: L141C33 End: L141C39; Result: Parameter 'Cancel' is passed ByRef implicitly (Warn
hmm..
Suggestion: Parameter 'CloseMode' can be passed by value - Foundation.SimpleView (Start: L62C52 End: L62C60)
Suggestion: Parameter 'CloseMode' can be passed by value - Foundation.ValueSelectorView (Start: L141C52 End: L141C60)
Suggestion: Function 'ValidateItemType' returns an implicit Variant - Foundation.List (Start: L87C1 End: L92C12)
Warning: Function 'IPresenter_CanExecuteAcceptCommand' returns no value - Foundation.SizeRangeSizesPresenter (Start: L51C1 End: L53C12)
Warning: Function 'IPresenter_CanExecuteAcceptCommand' returns no value - Foundation.SizeRangesPresenter (Start: L62C1 En
ah, better
...
Rubberduck Code Inspections - 01/03/2015 10:28:31 PM
107 issues found.Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - Foundation.Sheet3, line 1
Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - Foundation.Sheet2, line 1
Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - Foundation.LayoutTypes, line 1
Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - Foundation.Sheet1, line 1
Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - Foundation.LogSheet, line 1
Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - Foundation.StringHelpers, line 1
ah, almost
03:32
> Added "Copy inspection results to clipboard" button
2
Rubberduck Code Inspections - 01/03/2015 10:38:14 PM
12 issues found.
Warning: Parameter 'bar' is passed ByRef implicitly - VBAProject.Module1, line 2
Hint: Parameter 'bar' is not used - VBAProject.Module1, line 2
Warning: Function 'DoSomething' returns no value - VBAProject.Module1, line 2
Error: Variable 'foobar' is never assigned - VBAProject.Module1, line 3
Hint: Variable 'foobar' is never used - VBAProject.Module1, line 3
Suggestion: Parameter 'bar' can be passed by value - VBAProject.Module1, line 2
04:13
oh and another one:
Sub DoSomething()
End Sub
Rubberduck Code Inspections - 01/03/2015 11:13:28 PM
2 issues found.
Suggestion: Member 'DoSomething' is implicitly Public - VBAProject.ThisWorkbook, line 1
Warning: Option Explicit is not specified - VBAProject.ThisWorkbook, line 1
> ImplicitPublicMemberInspection
> Added ImplicitPublicMemberInspection
 
8 hours later…
12:34
@RubberDuck what would be our minimum requirement for Windows version?
@rubberduckvba I'm getting this error on load (using XP and Office 2010) - any advice? http://t.co/cyz3Pwt59C
13:04
@danrfraser Rubberduck runs on .net 4.5, which may not be supported on XP :(
Must be able to run .net 4.5
@Mat'sMug AFAIK there isn't one.
And XP would have to be 32 bit, right?
11
Q: .NET Framework 4.5 operating system requirements (no Vista and XP)

HeinziCurrently, the .NET Framework 4.5 runs only on Windows 7 and above: Operating system Version 4.5 Beta -------------------------------------------------------- Windows 8 Consumer Preview √ (see notes) Windows 7, all editions √ Windows Vista,...

&$*(#
Just use Java, it runs everywhere!
(hides)
@danrfraser eh, by then you'll get a duck with integrated GitHub source control for your VBA projects :)
@skiwi You better hide! lol
13:19
> Currently we're targeting the 4.5 framework, which is not supported by Windows XP. We can add support by targeting the 4.0 or 3.5 framework. We need to determine the minimum version necessary and target that instead. Obviously, 3.5 gives us maximum compatibility, but I'm not sure if/what features we're using that wouldn't be available.

[List of Operating Systems Supported by 4.0 and 3.5](https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/8z6watww(v=vs.100).aspx).
13:31
@Duga Maybe not...
> 4. Asynchronous operations

In the .NET Framework 4.5, new asynchronous features were added to the C# and Visual Basic languages. These features add a task-based model for performing asynchronous operations.
> After further investigation, we might not want to target anything older than 4.5. We're using the async features that were introduced in 4.5. Sticking with 4.5 means the minimum OS for Rubberduck would be Vista. Considering XP has reached the end of it's lifecycle, I'm not sure we should uproot the code base to support it. On the other hand, there are many users out there still using XP, as evidenced by the user who brought this to our attention. Thoughts @retailcoder?...
14:21
@RubberDuck you want to go "manual" multithreading? ...cause I don't!
@Mat'sMug I'm thinking [status-declined]. XP has reached EOL.
We do need to document minimum system requirements and I need to tweak the installer to require them though.
Indeed
@Rubberduck203 todo: document system requirements ;)
15:17
> I don't think disabling the TPL & async code for a < 4.5 target would make a good UX. And not leveraging async/await and the Task Parallel Library means we need to implement multithreaded code ourselves.

Windows XP is out, officially not supported since almost a year now - we know our code can run on a Vista+Office97 setup, I don't think it's worth the effort to go out of our way to retarget for 4.0.
 
1 hour later…
17:14
If someone is still running on XP, they probably have bigger problems than how clean their VBA code is ;D
(also, HAI!)
> Added Minimum System Requirements to ReadMe
> Update README.md

Pointed installer link to the actual latest release.
Added link to Building wiki under contributing header
> Added info to Wiki & ReadMe. I still need to address the installer.
@Phrancis Poor guy is still using it at work. He said they were planning on upgrading to Win7 soon.
17:32
@RubberDuck Blech. Yeah we were using XP at work until about 1.5 years ago when we upgraded to 7
About the same here.
> Update README.md
> Windows Vista or more recent (tested on Win7 and Win8.1)
.Net Framework 4.5
Microsoft Office 97-2003 or higher
I don't know why some companies wait until the last minute. I would think it would make more sense to upgrade as soon as better technology is available (in a stable release)
@Phrancis $$$$
(that is, they think they're saving $$ by holding on to deprecated crapware)
2
17:36
That and IT departments like to think that being on the latest release isn't a good idea for some reason..
s/reason/unknown reason
baffles me....
posted: I've put together a page to list and link to all the videos made of my talks http://martinfowler.com/videos.html
I wonder how many IT departments are still supporting web apps that have to run on IE6
shudders
Mine....
Well, they run better on IE6 at least. Each new version of IE makes the app worse and worse.
LOL!
I wonder what a 1997 Geocities website looks like on IE10...
Like a 1997 Geocities website?
I mean, how much worse could it get?
wow, some people...
There is already a way to create parameterized queries in ADO.NET: support.microsoft.com/kb/200190Greg Burghardt 3 mins ago
@GregBurghardt I know, this entire code builds on ADODB parameterized queries (BTW this is VBA, not .NET)... if you looked at how this code is used, you realize that it generates the parameters for you, so SqlCommand.SelectSingleValue("SELECT SomeField FROM SomeTable WHERE SomeValue = ?", 123) is all you need to code to get a full-fledged parameterized query, without the hassle of creating the parameters yourself. — Mat's Mug 23 secs ago
17:50
@Mat'sMug Doesn't get it.
his loss
 
1 hour later…
19:06
I'd use Skip: as a label name. GoTo is being used for making up for the lack of a Continue statement in VBA - I think that's one of the few legit uses of GoTo. Also, readability could be further improved by extracting methods from the loop's body. — Mat's Mug 5 secs ago
guess where "extracting methods" links to ;)
19:49
I found a peculiarity:
Public Sub Main()

    ' Given List properly implements ICountable And IPrintable
    WillFail List.Create(1,2,3)

End Sub
Public Sub WillFail(ByVal x As ICountable)

    If TypeOf x Is IPrintable Then
        Debug.Print x.ToString
    End If

End Sub
if x is a List then TypeOf x Is Printable will return true, but x.ToString will fail because ICountable doesn't implement ToString. So x both is and is not IPrintable...
Well, that's because TypeOf simply lets you know that the instance could be cast to IPrintable.
It doesn't mean it actually is an IPrintable.
@cheezsteak you need to Dim printable As IPrintable and then Set printable = x, before you can Debug.Print printable.ToString ;)
3
..but only if TypeOf x Is IPrintable ;)
That ^. I'm looking for the TypeOf doc.
Interesting, will need to update VBEX appropriately.
> The TypeOf operator determines whether the run-time type of objectexpression is compatible with typename. The compatibility depends on the type category of typename. The following table shows how compatibility is determined.
From the vb.net doc.
Doesn't appear to be in the VBA doc.
20:15
#JoysOfHalfDocumentedLanguages
2
20:27
I wonder why VBA is so under-freakin'-documented after all these years.
Idk... because MS just doesn't care about one of their most popular products?
Yes yes. But what if your whole damn system lies at that outer boundry Uncle Bob?
> Mocking the interactions between all classes forces you to create mocks that return other mocks (that might return yet other mocks). You have to mock out all the data pathways in the interaction; and that can be a complex task. This creates two problems.

The setup code can get extremely complicated.
The mocking structure become tightly coupled to implementation details causing many tests to break when those details are modified.
Sounds like mocking out the VBE and ANTLR parser.. ^
20:54
Mocking mocks?
To mock a mockingbird?
 
2 hours later…
22:41
@RubberDuck depends what you're testing; I've written tests (not sure if they're still in the solution) that "mock" the VBE by passing a simple string to RubberduckParser.Parse, and verify that the returned parse tree contains what it's expected to contain - that's really testing the grammar and its generated lexer/parser though.
With Moq you can easily set up a mock that replaces a CodeModule and is set up in a way that _vbe.ActiveProject.CodeModule.Lines() returns a predetermined string.
or whatever
Personally I find unit testing that is quite a waste of time though.
it was good for understanding the parse tree structure until I realized that it matched the grammar rules exactly - now when I need to understand something about the parse tree I look at the .g4 grammar file.
unit testing, say, the extract method refactoring, is overkill IMO. As much as I love being able to write unit tests in VBA, and as much as I like writing testable C# code, actually writing unit tests feels like an unnecessary burden to me. I know, oooh the sinner, right?
;)
TBH the extract method refactoring isn't exactly written in a testable way

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