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12:01 AM
RELOAD!
[banane-io/PDB] 1 commit. 3 additions. 1 deletion.
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 4 issue comments.
[Minesweeper] Games Played: 101, Bombs Used: 69, Moves Performed: 14454, New Users: 13
 
they're kinda like primordial versions of modern functionality. I know it was 1998, trying not to judge too harshly.
some of the ideas are still valid
just... not the UX. Or the UI.
 
Figuring the rest out at home</iven>
 
12:18 AM
> **Justification**
Parity with built-in functionality..

**Description**
The Project Explorer's context menu for component nodes has 'Save' and 'Save As...' commands, Code Explorer should too. We can reuse the `ExportCommand`, the functionality is almost identical.

**Additional context**
![image](https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/25420409/61338185-3d308f80-a830-11e9-8408-2debca307064.png)
 
@Duga self-assigned, I already know how to do it, and the work for 5041 will get part way there. Just raising for correctness rather than tacking it onto my upcoming PR.
 
12:32 AM
Hmm... COM shims... They're a way of loading different add-ins into separate AppDomains. But... Net Core doesn't have AppDomains, and AFAICS won't ever have them. IMO, getting to Net Core is much more important than implementing shims, so... we shouldn't do shims?
 
@mansellan I don't think we want to target core in the first place
while we want the build process shipped with core 3.0, that doesn't mean we need to target netcoreapp3
so we're still on framework
 
Is that viable in the long term though? V5 of .Net will be Core. "Classic" netfx dies at V4...
Net standard is basically a migration bridge (and one that MS say they're not sure they're going to carry indefinitely)
 
AFAICT we don't have a lot of options other than AppDomains
 
If that's true, it pins us to netfx indefintely
:-(
 
and it's not like our target environment will have changes in the forseeable future
 
12:39 AM
heh, true
 
That being said: AppDomains are a useful mechanism I'd expect to be carried over to V5
and the Com Shims are C++ code in the first place if memory serves
 
perhaps, but IIUC their absence is due to lack of strong-signing in Net Core. Can't see them wanting to port that...
There may be an equivalent though, now or later
 
This SO thread suggests that the issue was with Remoting support
Core2 apparently shipped some kind of AppDomain implementation
 
huh...
> For example, AssemblyLoadContext replaces AppDomains for loading and isolating assemblies.
so... maybe a shim is still possible, just using AssemblyLoadContext instead of AppDomain
but... no tooling, would have to be hand-rolled in C++
"fun"
 
See, we've been flirting with C++ in more than few places.
 
12:48 AM
we'd probably need to handroll anyways ...
 
I need to learn C++
 
to add a C++ project kind of makes it.... not accessible.
 
there was some talk about a shiv-gen wizard in VS2010, but apparently ...
 
@this could be a satellite solution
 
@this well, we got other thorny things already
 
12:49 AM
yeah you can fire it up then get the code, since the code itself isn't all that interesting.
it's basically just forwarding the calls after you load the AppDomains.
 
Like... dealing with any of the following parts of RD can be frustrating, semi-dangerous and possibly mindshattering:
 
@Vogel612 yes indeed, but no way that's gonna support Net Core. Might be useful for learning though.
 
It's one thing to have to shatter your mind in just C# and .NET
 
- Parser & Grammar
- Resolver
- Build process
- COM interaction
 
It's entirely another to shatter your mind on the C#, C++, .NET, COM, and whatever other nonsense there is.
 
12:50 AM
lol #NewChallenges
 
I for one welcome our new robot overlords tool of self-mutilation
 
In this POV, Parser & Grammar and Resolver can be taken up by anyone who is just familiar with C#
Build process and COM interaction.... eh... yes, self-mutilation may be necessary.
Such is life.
 
for whatever it's worth: C++ is still a widely used language.
I think if we wanted to really make it difficult, we could use C or Ada or something like that
 
@Vogel612 Brainfuck :-)
 
meh. Tape-based memory management is just a bit too hardcore, even for me
 
12:54 AM
Oh btw, wasn't dissing on C++ (although I'm more interested in learning Rust), just that adding a language raises the entry bar.
 
^
 
But if it's ring-fenced and out of the way...
 
"ringenced"??
 
@mansellan and I tend to think that isn't good for a FOSS
I think he meant "ring-fenced"
 
uh, that's wht I said ;-)
 
12:57 AM
wtf is with that unintuitive semantic assignment
 
the meaning of "ring-fenced" doesn't connect to the words in any useful way
the German word for it seems to be "zweckgebunden", which is literally "bound to a specific utilization"
 
huh, maybe I misuse? I just meant "tucked away, out of the main solution".
#Words
 
pretty sure I heard that before - might be idiomatic
 
> : to put (an amount of money) aside for a specific purpose
^^ merriam-webster's definition for ring-fenced
@mansellan wouldn't "segregated" be a better word for that?
 
1:00 AM
oh, it definitely means more than that. It literally means "contained by a boundary"
searches for validation
Fails
nuts... #TIL managers can infect incorrect definitions.
so... I meant segregated :-)
eek, it appears to be 2am. work tomorrow later this morning. TTGTB.
 
same... just an hour later :D
 
 
8 hours later…
9:32 AM
\o
Does anyone know if it is possible with vba to intercept RefreshAll via UI button push of RefreshAll? I have an odbc connection which when refresh is chucking out a text column until you click on each cell and then those values are converted to the dates they actually are. I have a sub which does
Public Sub FormatMonthColumn()
    With extractSheet.Columns(5)
        .Value = .Value
    End With
End Sub
That fixes the problem if code does ThisWorkbook.RefreshAll as I can call that helper sub after but I don't know how to cater for user pressing UI button.
 
10:23 AM
I assumed WithEvents.
Seems I can do the following:
14
A: How to call macro after Refresh or Refresh All button pressed?

RoryYou haven't actually connected the querytable to the class instance. Revised qtclass Option Explicit Private WithEvents qt As Excel.QueryTable Public Property Set HookedTable(q As Excel.QueryTable) Set qt = q End Property Private Sub qt_AfterRefresh(ByVal Success As Boolean) MsgBox "...

Though messes up query table - range extends for some reason.
 
11:01 AM
> Note the following: - 'ExcludeFromProject' is implemented by RemoveCommand, which has been modified to suit. - I've changed the relationship between RemoveCommand and ExportCommand from inheritance to composition - it seems more appropriate. - Component removal now happens via a new method on the ProjectRepository, which ensures that a race condition on the 'ComponentRemoved' event cannot cause an access violation. This race did not manifest in VBA (due to timings and luck), but...
did in VB6. !image
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 5a424ee2 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build failed
BUILD FAILURE!
 
@Duga bah
uh, whoops, seems I had the test project unloaded... mansellan--
 
 
2 hours later…
12:52 PM
@MathieuGuindon Is computes 'equality' of object as opposed to = which computes equality of simple types?
 
> **Rubberduck version information**
Version 2.4.1.4796
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17763.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11727.20244
Host Executable: EXCEL.EXE

**Description**
Running unit test when grouped "by outcome" is incredibly slow.

I have a fairly big project and if I run my unit test when grouped "by outcome" instead of e.g. "by location" or "by category" it takes a lot longer. For example for my project the times are:

* "by location": 134
 
@Duga oops...
 
@ticker gotta love creative names people give to things they don't know the proper names for --- I'd never have thunk that a colon was "two dots"
 
1:09 PM
> **Rubberduck version information**
Version 2.4.1.4796
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17763.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11727.20244
Host Executable: EXCEL.EXE

**Description**
If I run any test while Rubberduck is still parsing, e.g. during "Resolving references" etc then Excel freezes for 2-3 minutes, and finally displays a "Microsoft Excel is waiting for another application to complete an OLE action". When I click OK on the error message, everything pro
 
1:37 PM
> **Rubberduck version information**
Version 2.4.1.4796
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17763.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11727.20244
Host Executable: EXCEL.EXE

**Description**
It seems to me that ModuleAttribute is deleted from the module by Excel on close. This might be an Excel issue that is either an issue on my end or just how Excel behaves in general. I only have one machine to test on, so I can't really check.

If this is a bug with my Excel someh
> Just to confirm, step 3 does not include a "save the host document" step, correct?
 
@Duga tbh I'm not sure about this VB_Ext_KEY attribute on the PredeclaredID template
 
> Sorry, I save the Excel document after I have applied the fix before closing it.
> Also, if I export the code after applying the fix before closing the document it does contain the
```vb
Attribute VB_Ext_KEY = "Namespace" ,"Namespace Class Module"
```
line, so Rubberduck is clearly doing what I expect it to.
> Also, if I export the code after applying the fix before closing the document it does contain the
```vb
Attribute VB_Ext_KEY = "Rubberduck" ,"Predeclared Class Module"
```
line, so Rubberduck is clearly doing what I expect it to.
> > *It will complain that I have a missing attribute.*

And if you export the module then, it's indeed missing? If so, I can try escalating this to the Excel product team, but I wouldn't think they'd consider it a high-priority bug... if RD is complaining about a missing attribute but the attribute is present, then the bug is on us.
 
2:00 PM
@ticker "Using INDEX & MATCH Function in a Userform Combobox" ... holding back mentions of Smart UI and proper UserForm coding...
 
> There is no bug with Rubberduck as far as I can see. It behaves as expected. The question is rather: "Given Excel's behaviour, what would be the most sensible Rubberduck behaviour".

Could anyone else try to reproduce this? It would be nice to know whether anyone else is seeing this behaviour.
> I've experienced this with the Battleship project too (50-some tests), but couldn't pin it down to the grouping. Good job!
 
in Coding Projects and Vue.js Heaven :), 31 mins ago, by Marc-Andre
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/16/world/europe/notre-dame.html
^ Article about the fire at Notre-Dame Cathedral.
 
@Duga right.. I've been meaning to update my work-laptop install for ages.. there's my cue
 
2:21 PM
> Confirmed repro. :confused:

That said, `MissingModuleAnnotationInspection` has the wrong `InspectionType`, it should be under `RubberduckOpportunities`.
 
well guys
is a trash way to grade stuff
 
wow what a piece of ... "the answer is =A1+B1 not =B1+A1, they're not following instructions" - and you're not teaching Excel.
 
@MathieuGuindon or programming, or math, or anything that's a hard science for that matter.
 
or thinking
 
evidently they slept through the lecture on commutativity.
 
2:30 PM
no, they clearly said if they asked for "the Car is Red" and they got "the car is red", they'd mark is as wrong
they're training monkeys, not teaching anything
 
.....
 
@MathieuGuindon this
wow! 14 comment flags!?!??!?!
 
TIL HTML5 ID attributes can be emojis
 
Yes, they can. It's horrible to work with.
 
yeah, it looks like you guys downvoted it too :)
 
2:36 PM
@FreeMan Someone on History.se fighting over a question about Jesse Owens, playing the race card when it was being closed as off-topic.
 
so on top of trying to train a monkey, he doesnt even really know the subject matter...
 
@KySoto Very very few professors do.
Always remember: those who can't [do], teach.
It was super funny in my class on Exchange Server.
We had to figure out how many servers/disks it would take to run a system using an Excel-based calculator MS provided.
I didn't include my CPU specs, figuring I would just go with the default, and was getting a couple hundred servers and massive amounts of memory to support 100 users with 99.9999% uptime.
I asked her about it when working on my midterm, and she was all "I guess that's right...".
Working on my final, I found my mistake, and it ended up, IIRC, 2 servers and a few TB of data.
IIRC, I ended up configuring it with 1-2TB disks spinning at 7500 rpm and a standard Intel i7 CPU.
In another class (might've been the same prof, I forget), I went on a rant on how source control best practices work in my final.
 
@Hosch250 sigh
 
2:59 PM
anyone get any bargains on Prime Day (was that a global thing?)
I picked up a 20TB WD Duo for £330.
Enclosure going on ebay, the 2 10TB Reds are going in my NAS :-)
 
I got a bunch of notifications about it, but couldn't find a refurbished FWD transmission for a 2012 Nissan Rogue, so.. nope ;-)
3
 
@MathieuGuindon lol
 
I don't have Prime.
So, they hold packages for a long time, then do next-day shipping when they get around to doing them.
 
some of the deals were so good it made sense to get Prime just for one offer...
I was already a member though
 
I already used the trial.
 
3:03 PM
If I'd have had the money, I'd have bought 4... 80TB NAS, want!
 
@MathieuGuindon if there were, would you have gotten it? I imagine that installing a new tranny is .... fun.
 
assuming free shipping (bwahaha), sure - the garage wasn't able to find a used one; I'd have put it in the trunk and brought them the car and said "it's in the trunk, you put it in the right spot"
truth be told, a car with a dead transmission is dead to me
 
@MathieuGuindon Check junk shops.
A rear-ended or broad-sided Rogue from the same year might have a recoverable one.
OTOH, it might be cheaper to get another car.
 
If the tranny went, who knows what else is going.
 
3:13 PM
I'll be looking at an old used Toyota tonight. no way I'm getting into another 5 years of payments.
 
I can recommend Ford, but I happen to know that GM is clearancing the 2018 cars to put the 2019 ones on the lot.
OK :)
 
lol not happening. I'm thinking $5-$6K, tops
 
Good luck.
 
Thanks!
 
What car type?
Sedan?
 
3:15 PM
There's always the bicycles, too.
 
wife wants a RAV4
 
@this You wanna try biking in a Canadian winter?
 
or a Sienna
 
@Hosch250 It's a thing, isn't it?
Calvin's dad does it.
 
@MathieuGuindon The Sienna is really nice--my mom just sold my sister her 2003 one.
That's how I know GM is clearancing their cars. She replaced it with an Equinox.
The RAV4 is similar to the Equinox/Escape.
 
3:17 PM
@mansellan finally bought the new 8TB drive I needed for my server. They don't seem to go on sale much...
@mansellan I'm only at 32TB. The new drive will make 33TB. I'm replacing 2 old 2TB drives and an old 3TB drive...
 
It's a great car size. Not big enough to guzzle gas (I get 31.1 mi/gal on my Escape), but big enough for tall passengers or lots of gear.
 
@Hosch250 2019 hybrid looks really nice
but.. not this year
 
If I do pure freeway driving at 55 mi/hr, I can get over 32 mi/gal on my car.
 
@MathieuGuindon honest question: how do the hybrid drive batteries do in the cold? I know that the standard lead-acid batteries can get a bit... finicky... in the cold, same issue or not for the LiOn(?) they use to power the electric motors?
@MathieuGuindon it's only 7 years old and needs a new tranny? That's not a good sign... How's the mileage (kilometerage...), is it still under warranty?
 
It's not
135000km
 
3:22 PM
Is there such thing as a 7 years old car under warranty?
 
I had everything under warranty until the last payment a few months ago
 
@this Some extended warranties.
 
Yes, I have the same but they usually have a clause about the period and mileage
 
Most come with just a 35,000 mi/3 yr warranty, whichever is sooner.
 
and once it's out, it can't be extended
 
3:23 PM
@FreeMan no idea, but I'd trust a Toyota hybrid over any other
 
hence why I never would expect to hear of a 7 years old (or >100K miles) car still under warranty
 
I think Hyundai has (had?) a 7-10 year warranty on certain portions.
7-10 years was pretty common in the 80-90s, especially from the American manufacturers as they tried to prove that their quality was as good as the imports.
 
oh? #TIL
 
maybe not so much these days.
 
seems very dicey
 
3:25 PM
@FreeMan Given the number of 80s/90s cars on the freeway shoulders today, I'd say that a lot of them did last a long time.
 
@MathieuGuindon 'tis only 81k miles, that's still not much for a transmission. Seems sketchy and cautionary
 
sucky as it may be, you can't really warrant something that's scheduled to break down
 
Especially the Grand Prix.
There are still a ton of those things around in various stages of beat-up-ness.
 
I can imagine them losing money over 10 years warranty too easy.
 
@Hosch250 "last" vs "last in good condition" are two totally different things!
 
3:26 PM
What I find sad is that there are many great looking cars that can't run nowadays. :(
 
hence the number you see broken down...
 
@FreeMan They are 30-40 years old at this point...
And probably have half a million miles on them.
 
I really wish it was more common to just replace the powertrain than just buying a whole new car. There'd be less cars rotting away on junkyard.
 
there are a lot of 30-40 yo Mercedes still happily tooling around with doors that still sound like bank vaults when you close them.
 
I know a guy who has a Volvo with > 500K miles
 
3:27 PM
(there are a lot of Mercs that are falling to pieces, too, to be fair...)
 
@FreeMan Same, if you go to the fancy cars.
Lots and lots of old Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes show up in the summer.
Not to mention the Model Ts, etc.
 
The one thing I almost never see anymore are the 80/90s Camaros. It's like when GM stopped making them, they all evaporated off the roads. They're so rare 'round these parts, I'm shocked when I do see one.
 
@FreeMan Weird, they are common around here.
 
Of course, there are the new ones, and some from the 60/70s, but that middle generation is just... gone
 
They are often driven by teens and early 20s. I'd almost guess their parents had them holed up in a garage, and gave them to the kids.
 
3:30 PM
@FreeMan CVT is apparently known to be shitty
#neveragain
 
Hmm. interesting.
Subaru has a CVT, too
 
@this sadly, with all the electronics, it's a major pain in the butt to replace - lots of electronics and you can't just do it in your garage in a couple of weekends...
 
However, we loved our old Forrester. Got to 190K.
@FreeMan exactly the point I'm making. It's not really "user-serviceable" anymore
 
@MathieuGuindon Oh! That explains a lot! A friend had a Saturn Vue with a CVT and it went kaput at around 35k miles. Cost more to replace than they paid used, so they junked it.
 
@MathieuGuindon heh, I drive an (ancient) RAV4
 
3:32 PM
@this kids bought a Crosstrek with the CVT. Nasty little demon of a tranny. Nothing but trouble
Loves his Outback 2.5 though!
 
Interesting.
We did not like either Outback nor Crosstrek (IINM, Crosstrek was pretty new)
 
@FreeMan ooh, CVTs are horrid. All of them.
 
@mansellan that earns you a star!
 
However, the Forrester was just perfect, especially with all the hard driving my wife would do.
Maybe we lucked out? shrug
 
@this he bought an 03 about 3 years ago. it just had $5k of engine work done. Has had some issues with it, but loves it overall. and hard driving? Yeah, that's him.
 
3:36 PM
ouch, not a great deal if replacing in only 3 years
unless did he actually drive 100K mile in a year?
 
@this eh?? it was a 2003 car purchased used in 2016. Has about... 180K(?) miles on it now. The previous owner had about $5k in refresh/upgrade/improvement work, then discovered that his 2 kids were about to become 4 kids and had to get something with more seating capacity.
 
Glad I don't have a CVT (I don't think). The Escape Hybrid does, but I have a cheaper version.
Pretty sure mine is a 6-speed still.
 
@FreeMan reading comprehension failure
 
@Hosch250 If you floor the throttle and the engine note doesn't change while the speedo slowly creeps upward, you have a CVT. If you feel it kick down to a lower gear, the engine speed climbs significantly and it actually accelerates, you have a "normal" auto.
 
i used to have a 96 toyota corolla, that thing was a tank, some lady ran into it going 45 when it was parked. ended up totalling the back end
 
3:41 PM
@this lol
 
had some dude come and pull it out, bought a new light and it was... uhhh good nuff
 
@FreeMan Yeah, the engine note and speed changes.
 
the only really annoying thing that happened was the radiator finally gave out. it was a pile of rust at that point anyway
 
The only problem is, (LOL), that if you are cruising just below the speed for it to shift, and abruptly floor the gas, sometimes it shifts the wrong way.
My brother who is into cars thinks it shifts that way because it thinks it needs more RPMs for some reason, or something like that.
So, if you are climbing a hill in my car, but it's not enough to make it shift, don't floor the gas--step on it just a bit to make it shift, then floor it.
 
@Hosch250 it should down-shift (lower numbered gear) to get the engine RPM up higher into the power/torque band to give you the grunt you need to accelerate as you've requested. You're saying you floor it and it up shifts so the RPM drops?
 
3:44 PM
(Not that I'm a fan of flooring the gas--it's a lot harder on the car. My neighbor does that, and wrecks a new car just about once a year or two by trashing the engine.)
@FreeMan The RPM spikes, but the power to the wheels seems to drop.
 
that's... weird...
 
Then, if you take your foot off the gas and re-apply it, it'll shift back by two.
And the RPM will crawl up and the car will accelerate too.
Not really "crawl" up, but bump up to the next notch, but not spike.
I've only had this happen about 5 times, so not really an issue worth risking them wrecking something else working on it, but I've been able to figure out how to reproduce it fairly reliably.
It almost seems like when riding a bike. You know, you could shift down and really rev up your legs, but go nowhere.
Or you could shift up and have the pedals a bit harder to turn, but give you more speed.
It feels like it shifts down, but then it really spins up the engine because the wheels are going faster than the engine can keep up at that gear.
I'd guess it's just a minor glitch in the automatic transmission software.
Meeting time.
 
4:06 PM
OK, a 1-minute department meeting.
 
ugh. I hate it when an answer gets accepted and upvoted when it's not addressing crazy inefficiencies and pointing out blatant misuse of an API, while the correct answer just sits there ignored.
 
@mansellan Prime Day?
 
@IvenBach Amazon Prime Day. Amazon doing deals like it's like Black Friday...
 
4:24 PM
Here's another great way to prevent skimming, and other physical card-cloning: Use Cash. — Chronocidal 12 mins ago
 
@Duga If we are not using a suspend action in the test runner already, it is super simple to segregate running tests and reparsing: just wrap the test runner invocation in a suspend action.
Why does the template contain an VB_EXT_KEY attribute? I am not sure whether all hosts support this attribute.
 
@mansellan That may have been why the Harry Potter series was heavily discounted. I didn't see any banners when I purchased it though.
Had I known I could have upgraded to larger monitors for home. Oh well. Not the first time I've ever missed out on something.
 
@M.Doerner good question. I vote for removing it :)
 
hmm that was something from ThunderFrame's original version
AIUI, he thought it works since it's a VB standard attribute
 
it's purely metadata
...and we're not using it
so... it's purely noise
 
4:38 PM
Indeed. His intention was to note that it was added by us.
But yes, you're right - we aren't really using it otherwise.
 
4:50 PM
mind, we weren't flagging desynchronized attributes/annotations back then
or if we were, VB_Ext_KEY was ignored
 
5:08 PM
> I would honestly merge this PR as-is, I'm just concerned with the UX of having one out of (many) grids capable of persisting column positions. How do we feel about this @rubberduck-vba/dev?
 
@Vogel612 does your offer still stand for taking #4963 to the finish line?
it looks pretty damn close
 
Sync UI with selected item

Previously when activating between `LibrarySelect` and `ProjectSelect` the
footer wouldn't update if a new selection wasn't chosen. Now the footer
displays the correct information whenever focus changes.
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] IvenBach pushed commit 6c44166f to next: Remove redundant inheritance and using directive
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] IvenBach pushed commit 7569ee1f to next: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/next' into Issue4798_ReferenceExplorerAssemblyPathUpdatingUI
Merge pull request #5037 from IvenBach/Issue4798_ReferenceExplorerAssemblyPathUpdatingUI

Synchronize reference explorer with selected item
 
5:40 PM
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 55788e8d on next: AppVeyor build succeeded
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 55788e8d on next: 64.2% (target 0%)
> **Rubberduck version information**
Version 2.4.1.4796
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17763.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11727.20244
Host Executable: EXCEL.EXE

**Description**
Not entirely sure whether this is a feature request, change request, bug or what
it is, but it generally concerns an issue I am having when writing tests that
use loops to test systematics. First a bit of explanation of how I am used to
`Assert` functioning.

I've mostly been d
 
00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

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