VBA Rubberducking

7:00 PM

What I'd really like to use is an F# type provider that you just write SQL for, and it actually generates a type for it.

this

I don't want to deal with a bug report due to EF doing something stupid and I don't have time to get into the intricaties of EF.

Hosch250

Yeah, only bug reports I've had are timeouts due to some spectacularly bad queries (that would be bad anyway, if it was SQL or not).

KySoto

the heck is EF?

this

Entity Framework AKA Effing F'd

Hosch250

Code-first generates spectacularly stupid DB schemas, but I'm doing DB first, then generating the migration script to automate the change in prod.

IvenBach

7:04 PM

@FreeMan Educating moldy pineapples is hard. Mug does a surprising job at it.

FreeMan

quite true

mansellan

@KySoto @this is not a fan. I think it has its uses, but it needs to be handled with (great) care.

Oh and yes, never ever let it build a schema for you...

KySoto

huh. i always figure out what data i want, build a schema then start doing the UI stuff

Hosch250

EF helps with queries and stuff too.

At least, for some people's definition of helps :)

KySoto

huh. i usually make all my own queries too lol

im... decentish with t-sql

this

7:07 PM

Far too many C# programmers don't want to deal with database. They would just rather build pretty forms first.

Hosch250

So, you just have an IQueryable, and you can almost pretend it's just an in-memory collection.

Just remember that it isn't, though, for when you materialize it.

KySoto

even if i built pretty forms first, i wouldnt auto-generate my schema

mansellan

@this At the lower end, yes. Decent engineers know the DB can't be ignored.

KySoto

well unless i rebuilt the wheel and made something that followed how i wanted it done

but then, id be using a tool i wrote to build schema's, not the EF tool

this

@mansellan I've not really seen a "decent engineers" then. Many really love that EF can do database for them, and they don't want to even think about 3NF.

Heck, I doubt they even know what a DRI is.

Hosch250

7:10 PM

@KySoto You define your schema with C# classes and tie them together with a class that implements an EF base class, then generate the migration over that. If you do that carefully, it will give you the schema you ask for.

KySoto

-_- whats DRI

Hosch250

But, it's hard to do that.

KySoto

and 3NF

Hosch250

@KySoto Go learn 3NF before you touch any more DBs, please :)

mansellan

@this Hmm, different exp for me.... Mind you, everywhere I've worked the DB has been owned by a separate team, so we couldn't autogen the schema if we wanted to.

Hosch250

7:11 PM

I won't be held for the consequences if you don't, LOL.

KySoto

man, just when i think ive finally hit, maybe one clue of many, yall throw new acronyms at me

this

DRI = database referential integrity (aka foreign keys). 3NF = 3rd normal form. What Hosch250 said. Very essential to data model designing.

mansellan

except my current place, and they just hate on EF generally... we use Dapper for everything here.

this

If you haven't, I highly recommend that you get SQL for Mere Mortals by Hernandez and Visceas.

Hosch250

I tried Dapper, but I hate my SQL being in my code like that, LOL.

this

7:12 PM

disclaimer: I tech edited that.

you don't want SQL in code anyway. You just want to invoke stored procedure and pass parameters, generally.

mansellan

@Hosch250 yeah me too. would rather go EF, with strategic sprocs sprinkled in.

this

or at least use a view.

KySoto

yeah i googled 3nf and the terminology used in wikipedia was pretty freakin dense

mansellan

@this with ADO.Net? yuck...

this

there's also Database Design for Mere Mortal, same authors.

Hosch250

7:14 PM

@this Yeah, when you have 200 tables, you need 4 SPs (CRUD) for every one, and more for many.

this

@Hosch250 no, that's where you use a view.

Hosch250

Hmmm.

this

don't write lame one-trick-pony CRUD sprocs

if it's a logic that can't be expressed ina single SQL statement, then you need a sprocs for sure.

otherwise, a view is peachy for CRUD stuff.

Hosch250

F this Symantec and Dell Data Protection stuff. They just installed it on my computer (after about 6 months...) and it's screwing my system hard.

mansellan

@KySoto Heh, don't go higher than 3NF then. 6NF is, uh, intense (and almost never needed).

TBH, don't read the wiki for 3NF, find a good tut - it's easier than it looks.

IvenBach

7:24 PM

@this That gives me a severe case of the sads.

FreeMan

Documentation navigation issue. I made it to here in the MS Docs. How the heck do I make it to where .ActiveVBProject.VBComponentsis defined?

this

you're in Excel. You need to be in VBE.

FreeMan

ugh

IvenBach

@KySoto You don't have duplicated info. And Hosch is right about knowing 3NF before you do any DB. It's not hard and should click easy if you don't like updating info in more than a single location.

this

@FreeMan something like this: docs.microsoft.com/en-us/office/vba/language/reference/…

@IvenBach I use the old saying "a place for everything and everything in its place."

IvenBach

7:29 PM

I think that's where my desire to not have any duplicated info comes from. All that struggling with copied non 3NF info in my ExcelDB.

Hosch250

@this Would you mind spinning up a simple console app or something to demo Dapper so I can properly understand your views and SPs discussion? Maybe something like codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/163019/…?

this

not now - I'll see if I can whip something up a bit later this week

FreeMan

@this carp, running down the wrong ribbit hole anyway... Need to look at VBComponent.Export. I'll find it...

this

To be fair, my use of dapper has been primarily for API - no UI stuff.

so might be a learning experience for me to put something together for a simple CRUD form

@FreeMan it helps a lot to pay attention to the breadcrumbs and note which library you are in.

since you are dealing with VBIDE OM, not Excel OM

Hosch250

@this That'll be perfectly fine.

That program I linked was just a console app anyway :)

@this Of course.

Mathieu Guindon

7:34 PM

welp, did I overthink this? github.com/MicrosoftDocs/VBA-Docs/pull/964

IvenBach

You're referring to the header?
Docs/Office VBA Reference/Excel/Object Model/Application object/Properties/VBE
Docs/Office VBA Reference/Language reference/Reference/Visual Basic Add-in Model/Object

FreeMan

@this but I'm writing some Excel code, therefore...

this

@FreeMan bbzzzttt. You're writing Excel code that uses VBIDE OM. :)

Mathieu Guindon

^

this

See, there is nothing that says that a OM can't ref another OM.

Application.VBE is a property in Excel OM that references an object from VBIDE OM.

Mathieu Guindon

7:37 PM

Excel OM references the Office OM, too

this

you can see that for yourself by using object browser and following the definition.

and taking note which library it shows when you browse to that object.

mansellan

searches MicrosoftDocs....

0 results for repositories matching VB6

this

@IvenBach Yes - since he wanted to know about VBComponents / VBComponent -- he has left the Excel OM.

mansellan

bah

this

@mansellan Need VS6 installed. Ain't going to get it online anymore.

FreeMan

7:39 PM

@this yeah, I know (now) that was missing the sarcasm

mansellan

@this lol yeah i know

:-)

this

I see that my work is done. Captain Obvious away!

FreeMan

I made it to the VBComponents docs which mentions an Import function, but no Export. I clicked the Import link hoping that Export would be under the "see also", but alas, poor FreeMan, it was not to be.

this

Are you sure you want VBComponents? Looks like it exists on VBComponent

Yer export method's documented here

I should note that the VBIDE's help file is crapatastic, though.

FreeMan

@this that's being generous

this

7:43 PM

Nobody bothered to update it to the current structure that you now see in other OMs; you get one big alphateical/categorical list of everything in a kitchen sink.

IDK why they thought it was an awesome idea to categorize the stuff like that back in 90s.

FreeMan

seriously, how do I find that? Even looking at the doc for VBComponent I get several links to the glossary and a couple of selected details.

I'm not finding it anywhere in the listing on the left (to be fair, I haven't expanded everything, but I wouldn't have through that would be necessary...)

Hosch250

Did you ever hear what the guy said when he was sentenced to be guillotined?

That'll take a weight off my shoulders.

this

LOL good one

@FreeMan in help files like those, they are categorized by category then alphabetical.

Since you wanted Export, that's under Methods, then under E for export.

if you want the VBComponent, that's under Objects

VBComponents is Collections.

Note that Scripting's and ADODB's help files are structured similarly. Sooo.....

FreeMan

@this looking at the links themselves, I got to ...language/reference/visual-basic-add-in-model/... while the one you gave was .../langage/reference/user-interface-help/... looking down the left-side menu, I was 1 main menu item above you, but following the crumbs in the URL, I still can't find where the heck it is.

that's the bloody problem!!! it isn't under User Interface Help it is under VB add in model, but the stupid link doesn't match up with the actual location in the menu. >:(

plus, I coulda sworn I looked under methods, but I probably wasn't looking for Export at that time, so I didn't see it.

thx for the drop kick in the right direction.

> When you use the Export method to save a component as a separate file or files, use a file name that doesn't already exist; otherwise, an error occurs.

and... that's why it's not writing updated code modules to my directory. I need to Kill the file first...

KySoto

hm from the looks of it, i think i was already doing something along hte lines of 3nf

but most of our data is written once, rarely does it get edited or deleted

i also do my best to try not to duplicate data if i can help it

i get the " i know you wanna do it x(the as best as i can tell it's right) way, but you are going to do it y(the not totally wrong but definitely not right) way."

IvenBach

8:03 PM

@FreeMan The pond is great for getting you pointed in the right direction.

FreeMan

@FreeMan or... you need to write the file to the correct directory. AKA: validate your input, moron - make sure a path has a trailing `\` before blindly using it!

this

@FreeMan I love that it's under "user interface". Since when VBA was an UI?

The joy of Microsoft help!

FreeMan

@this glad you're enjoying that, I sure as heck didn't!

this

Would you prefer man mail than that?

FreeMan

@IvenBach indeed! Didn't really realize how wrong my direction was 'til I stumbled into this place...

@this almost... /lies

IvenBach

8:07 PM

Oct 26 '17 at 18:35, by IvenBach

This is a great pond, isn't it.

FreeMan

The Joy of Cooking or The Joy of Sex would be much higher on my preferred reading list...

this

lol

FreeMan

@FreeMan the scary thing is that this statement is actually patently FALSE. No error is generated, .Export will happily overwrite whatever's there.

this

hmm I wonder if we note that in our code....

doesn't look like

FreeMan

"that" @this?

this

8:22 PM

we don't make a comment in our code wrapping the VBComponent.Export that the help file is wrong.

probably should

FreeMan

ah, gotcha.

OK, I think I'm done for the day. too much excitement... Time to go watch my kid dance with the jazz band.

Hosch250

8:50 PM

@this Thanks! Pivot gives me exactly what I need using our current system :D

Which will help with that one, at any rate :D

IvenBach

> MSDN is a great source of information, but it's meant to be a reference, not a learning or teaching guide.

^ @FreeMan Don't feel too bad.

All along I've been using it as a teaching guide...

this

@Hosch250 :+1:

IvenBach

9:12 PM

:click: Project properties Output type = {Class Library, Windows Application, Console Application}.

Fireworks are tickling my brain again.

Peter M Taylor

9:24 PM

Now we can optionally add images of either yellow rubber duck or Thunderframe red duck as a logo picture to Github repo when they search us up. github.blog/…

^ new Github feature

Vogel612

ohhh that's useful

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] Vogel612 synchronized pull request #4914: Invert project order for RD.CodeAnalysis and make RD.SettingsProvider more useful

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] codecov[bot] edited comment on pull request #4914: Invert project order for RD.CodeAnalysis and make RD.SettingsProvider more useful

> # [Codecov](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/4914?src=pr&el=h1) Report
> Merging [#4914](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/4914?src=pr&el=desc) into [next](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/commit/10adc78912e6d6328acc937d101b9a415e82adcd?src=pr&el=desc) will **increase** coverage by `0.01%`.
> The diff coverage is `43.55%`.

```diff
@@ Coverage Diff @@
## next #4914 +/- ##
=======================

Duga

9:52 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 5da44ae8 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] codecov[bot] deleted comment on pull request #4914: Invert project order for RD.CodeAnalysis and make RD.SettingsProvider more useful

> # [Codecov](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/4914?src=pr&el=h1) Report
> Merging [#4914](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/4914?src=pr&el=desc) into [next](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/commit/10adc78912e6d6328acc937d101b9a415e82adcd?src=pr&el=desc) will **increase** coverage by `0.01%`.
> The diff coverage is `43.55%`.

```diff
@@ Coverage Diff @@
## next #4914 +/- ##
=======================

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 5da44ae8 on unknown branch: 64.56% (target 0%)

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] codecov[bot] created comment on pull request #4914: Invert project order for RD.CodeAnalysis and make RD.SettingsProvider more useful

> # [Codecov](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/4914?src=pr&el=h1) Report
> Merging [#4914](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/4914?src=pr&el=desc) into [next](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/commit/10adc78912e6d6328acc937d101b9a415e82adcd?src=pr&el=desc) will **increase** coverage by `0.01%`.
> The diff coverage is `44.22%`.

```diff
@@ Coverage Diff @@
## next #4914 +/- ##
=======================

Vogel612

11:01 PM

yo .. AppVeyor wtf is up with three messages?

mansellan

It changed its mind about the diff coverage. Everyone makes mistakes :-)

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