VBA Rubberducking

Duga

7:00 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] rubberduck-vba-releasebot created tag Prerelease-v2.4.0.4570

Hosch250

@Vogel612 So, it's a lateral move with a pay increase?

M.Doerner

I guess, I have an idea why it cannot do that.

Vogel612

@M.Doerner that's all fine, but you can't do it in the general case, because the whole point is that you can omit type declarations for lambdas

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 30e857a8 on next: AppVeyor build succeeded

M.Doerner

The type is ambiguous.

Mathieu Guindon

7:00 PM

^

M.Doerner

But just because there are different resolution mechanisms for lambdas.

Vogel612

it's significantly more work to allow LHS type inference for lambda expression values that are fully specified

it's not technically impossible, just an absolute nightmare

M.Doerner

I think it is actually always ambiguous.

Vogel612

@Hosch250 the current codebase is 200kLoC, going to maintain a 20MLoC codebase is not a lateral move

M.Doerner

Lambdas can represent Func<S,T> but also an expression tree.

Vogel612

7:02 PM

and most of the code that Oracle sells is probably C or C++ anyways

this

@Vogel612 I would be surprised. All I hear from them is Java, Java, JAVA!!!

Vogel612

OracleDB is definitively not Java

M.Doerner

I bet their database engine is not written in Java.

this

Sure, Oracle itself probably is C++, but modules are Java, IINM.

Vogel612

that would imply they have a full JVM implementation in whatever product you mean by that

unless you're talking about the JVM, I'm willing to bet that they don't have that

this

7:04 PM

That's my impression as well.

Hosch250

I interviewed with them for a DB dev position, and they wanted Java.

Mathieu Guindon

"Oracle" is also a massive ERP system in competition with SAP, not just a database engine.

Hosch250

Technically, I'm 99% sure it wasn't the core DB system.

this

I'm thinking about the extension you can load into your Oracle database (e.g. write Java to provide a custom data type? procedure? whatever). That has to be Java, IIRC.

Vogel612

If I wanted to develop ERP, I'd actually send an application to SAP

this

7:05 PM

(there's also just the PL\SQL)

Hosch250

FWIW, Microsoft has an ERP too.

Vogel612

one of their main branches is ~30minutes by car from me

this

Hmm who's worse... SAP or Oracle?

I'm thinking both are just as bad. Even Microsoft's.

Vogel612

@this that's postgres, though

this

Actually, Postgres has it, too.

Hosch250

7:06 PM

I've not heard much about it (only I took an ERP class) so...

Vogel612

PL/SQL vs PLPGSQL

this

But it lets you create modules using c++

IDK if Postgres will take a Java module, though. I doubt it.

Vogel612

ya and SAP have their weird java-based custom langauge with record types and all

Postgres will spit in your face if you try to give it a java module

Mathieu Guindon

ABAP

this

SAP = Salesforce?

Vogel612

7:07 PM

it's a RDBMS

this

I can't rememer who's who

Vogel612

@this no. SAP. their db-system is called HANA

M.Doerner

That is the new one, though.

this

Ok, I was thinking that SAP owned Salesforce, too but maybe not.

Mathieu Guindon

SAP implementation is pitched as achievable in 9 months, budgeted for 6, and completed in 18.

Vogel612

7:08 PM

@this that was MS, wasn't it?

this

@Vogel612 and it should. I remember I was kind of quirked when Oracle insisted that I write Java for the module.

Mathieu Guindon

guess what sank Target's Canadian adventure

ERP

this

Looks like it's still its own company, so no.

MS is Dynamics

@MathieuGuindon wondering - do you have a source for that?

Mathieu Guindon

there was an article about it back then.. .when was it, 2015?

basically their systems were showing inventory on hand but the physical inventory wasn't in the stores, so they had empty shelves, and the replenishment system wouldn't kick in because it thought inventories were all good.. but that's just one part of the problem

this

yeow

Hosch250

7:15 PM

Nice.

Mathieu Guindon

at a company I worked in 2008 they implemented SAP and "flipped the switch" just before the Holidays. can't afford to not ship during that time as a retailer, so they jammed the stores with goods, then flipped the switch. and as predicted, couldn't ship through the system for months afterwards.

reading about Target's failure rang so many bells, I guess that's why I remember some of the details of it

this

canadianbusiness.com/the-last-days-of-target-canada

the image there made me LOL

Comintern

I'm trying to remember anything positive I've heard about SAP, and it's not coming to me.

this

what I don't get is that it sounds as if they basically re-invented the ERP.... why not use the one they already are using in US?

Mathieu Guindon

> The team responsible for the decision went with a system known as SAP, made by the German enterprise software company of the same name. Considered the gold standard in retail, SAP is used by many companies around the world, from Indigo in Canada to Denmark’s Dansk supermarket chain. It essentially serves as a retailer’s brain, storing huge amounts of data related to every single product in stores.

> That data would be fed by SAP into Target’s other crucial systems: software to forecast demand for products and replenish stocks, and a separate program for managing the distribution centres.

@this might have been that one

Comintern

7:20 PM

It wasn't just Target.

> The Australian outpost of the venerable department store chain, affectionately known as "Woolies," also ran into data-related problems as it transitioned from a system built 30 years ago in-house to SAP. One of the biggest crises that arose was that profit-and-loss reports tailored for individual stores, which managers were accustomed to receiving every week, couldn't be generated for nearly 18 months.

> When Target was launching in Canada in 2013, though, they assumed they would avoid this problem: there would be no data to convert, just new information to input into their SAP system. But upon launch, the company's supply chain collapsed, and investigators quickly tracked the fault down to this supposedly fresh data, which was riddled with errors— items were tagged with incorrect dimensions, prices, manufacturers, you name it.

Mathieu Guindon

lol indeed

Comintern

> n the end, Hershey's ghastly problems with its SAP ERP, Siebel CRM and Manugistics supply chain applications prevented it from delivering $100 million worth of Kisses for Halloween that year and caused the stock to dip 8 percent.

> The epic tale of HP's centralization of its disparate North American ERP systems onto one SAP system proves that one can never be too pessimistic when it comes to ERP project management. You see, in 2004, HP's project managers knew all of the things that could go wrong with their ERP rollout. But they just didn't plan for so many of them to happen at once. The project eventually cost HP $160 million in order backlogs and lost revenue—more than five times the project's estimated cost.

Damn, did anyone's SAP rollout go well?

Mathieu Guindon

the ones where the CEO listened to their CTO

Comintern

> Garbage-disposal giant Waste Management is still embroiled in an acrimonious $100 million legal battle with SAP over an 18-month installation of its ERP software. The initial deal began in 2005, but the legal saga commenced in March 2008, when Waste Management filed suit and claimed SAP executives participated in a fraudulent sales scheme that resulted in the massive failure.

this

are you trying to make me vomit?!?

Mathieu Guindon

7:24 PM

the ones being told "it's going to be 18 months and $60 million" that react with "let's make it 9 months and $30 million", are the ones failing.

this

but yeah - ERP => nothing good can come out of it.

Comintern

@this Is it working?

this

LOL, my guts' clenching but not quite there yet.

@MathieuGuindon so that. They just don't know how to release jack.

"let's make up numbers that sounds nice!"

Comintern

Maybe this will push it over the edge then.

Mathieu Guindon

nah, it's just that CEOs tend to massively under-estimate how important IT is to their business. they're seen as costs.

Comintern

7:26 PM

> Well, during the 1996 Kenwood Cup sailing race, Ellison's sailing crew reportedly ignored Plattner's wounded sailing yacht (which had a broken mast and bloodied crew member). Plattner did admit to mooning Ellison's crew ("I lowered my pants," he told Sailing World) for not helping with his injured crew member and battered yacht. But, alas, Ellison was not aboard that yacht.

Mathieu Guindon

and the truth is, all the billions made in the retail industry, are largely managed with Excel spreadsheets and clunky VBA code.

IvenBach

I've only heard bad things WRT SAP. What about it makes it undesirable?

Comintern

It can cut both ways though. We're migrating to Salesforce so like 3 people in the company can have "dashboards". I'm ballparking it at around $50K easy for stuff we already have available in-house.

@IvenBach The trail of bankruptcies?

Mathieu Guindon

@IvenBach you mean "desirable" I guess. it's rock-solid, and unforgiving.

Comintern

computerweekly.com/news/252435884/…

Mathieu Guindon

7:29 PM

you don't have any dirty data to cleanse -- it's not letting you enter any dirty data

Comintern

> Businesses have less than a 50% chance of an SAP implementation delivering what it is supposed to, according to a new study.

Mathieu Guindon

sounds about right

Comintern

They should put that on the product brochures.

Mathieu Guindon

but once it's up, it's totally awesome

this

Really?

Mathieu Guindon

7:30 PM

oh yeah

Comintern

Or a new slogan. "SAP is like EF for business!"

Mathieu Guindon

you integrate every step of your business process into it

and you can report on any data point

Comintern

I do like the SAP response though. "It is hard for customers to admit they are doing things wrong.”

this

does it democratize?

Mathieu Guindon

ABAP is their proprietary language, and only ABAP programmers can make custom SAP screens. So... democratized... if you can pay for it :)

Comintern

7:32 PM

Democratize?

Mathieu Guindon

@Comintern they're right though

what makes it fail is people holding on to their old broken process, and trying to make SAP work like ...a worksheet

Comintern

Oh, I don't doubt it. That's why I compared it to EF. It's an incredible tool if you know what you're doing. If you don't, well...

Hosch250

> Business analysts (who were young and fresh out of school, remember) were judged based on the percentage of their products that were in stock at any given time, and a low percentage would result in a phone call from a vice-president demanding an explanation.
> But by flipping the auto-replenishment switch off, the system wouldn’t report an item as out of stock, so the analyst’s numbers would look good on paper. “They figured out how to game the system,” says a former employee. “They didn’t want to get in trouble and they didn’t really understand the implications.”

M.Doerner

The company I work at atm only needed five years to implement an SAP solution for 45% of the business.

Hosch250

Losers.

M.Doerner

7:34 PM

It took us two more years to get the data in shape.

IvenBach

Wow... Some articles I need to read up on.

this

The main problem with any centralized ERP is that if you need to update the business process, it becomes much difficult to get it updated.

Hosch250

In my ERP course, they recommended not trying unless you had a billion to spend on the system and your current systems weren't cutting it.

M.Doerner

SAP is really unforgiving if you did things with your data in the past that are not quite right.

this

Supposedly, Microsoft is trying to help with that pain point by encouraging more democratized solutions --- Dynamics, PowerApps, PowerBI, SharePoint, etc. are meant to be managed by end users.

M.Doerner

7:35 PM

SharePoint is a mess.

Comintern

I've learned to distrust end users.

Mathieu Guindon

"end users" -> yeah, right

mispelled "IT"

Comintern

lol

Hosch250

That's how you get Excel databases.

Mathieu Guindon

^

Hosch250

7:36 PM

I mean, they work, until they don't.

this

like it or not, shadow IT is a thing.

and I've seen people make excel databases because they couldn't wait on IT to budge on their months-old requests.

Mathieu Guindon

@this lol, guess how we got the sales history into SAP...

Comintern

Oh, sure. But it exists for a reason. I think part of the reason is systems that are hard for IT to work with.

Mathieu Guindon

...from my "shadow-IT" Access database :)

Comintern

That's awesome.

Mathieu Guindon

7:37 PM

'tis

IvenBach

But you had it in an Excel DB before Access right?

M.Doerner

Well, my department also does a lot of shadow IT stuff.

Mathieu Guindon

the less awesome part is that they shut down the company months later, and moved operations to NY, and today a little less than half of the 50+ stores are still open

M.Doerner

However, we are doing it officially.

Mathieu Guindon

@IvenBach kinda

this

7:38 PM

@MathieuGuindon and SAP had nothing to do with that?

Mathieu Guindon

it was all part of the master plan :)

this

LOL

Anyway, we have business exactly for pretty much same reasons - only that we don't recommend ERPs. ;-)

Mathieu Guindon

Amsterdam had one vision of the brand, NY had another, and Canada was just caught between the two, and NY won, and ate us.

was great experience though

it's kinda satisfying that NY screwed up and ended up sinking the great business we had. wow, it's been a decade already, almost day-for-day.

this

and you get to have all purple velvet suits you could ever possibly need!

Mathieu Guindon

pffft

Hosch250

7:50 PM

LOL, QA got curious and started peering at some of our old code we don't support anymore, and have on the books to rewrite.

And started asking me questions about console logs saying function X is deprecated.

Hosch250

8:29 PM

@IvenBach You mentioned the door not opening last Friday?

That happened for me today.

I couldn't get in or out a door because the snow was piled about 6-8" deep and compacted by the wind.

The owner had cleared out the front door, so I went in that way, then went and cleared the door. The snow crew was cleaning the parking lot at this point, and did the other doors.

IvenBach

8:43 PM

There was only a light dusting of snow in a few SoCal areas.

We don't get snow like the rest of you guys do.

this

A light dusting?

I thought it was sunny & hot & humid all the year around.

Comintern

Around here 4" is a "light dusting".

Mathieu Guindon

@MathieuGuindon maybe not you but an intelligent helpful person — Casemiro 13 mins ago

flattered

IvenBach

It's been "cold" relatively speaking. High 30's to low 40's at night with a bit of wind.

You can laugh at that being our cold.

this

@MathieuGuindon Hey, for an arrogant guy, you aren't half bad! :-D

Mathieu Guindon

8:46 PM

apparently I'm a complete and utter troll, too

Comintern

What a complete ass.

this

time for you to look at bridges.

I hear there's one selling in NYC.

^^

Comintern

Why do people think they're going to get help when they post crap like that?

this

I have a feeling the OP hasn't heard the phrase "biting the hand that feeds you"

Mathieu Guindon

meh. there's the next "SO people are SO EVIL AND UNHELPFUL, wah, wah, waaaahh"

this

8:48 PM

stackoverflow.com/questions/54873550/…

"stop being brave"?

I have a feeling this isn't a native English speaker, either.

^

Mathieu Guindon

sorry that came from my innards

Comintern

bettermess.com/what-to-do-when-youre-an-asshole

Moderately NSFW...

this

The point being, he should know that translation should not be taken too seriously.

Hosch250

> maybe not you but an intelligent helpful person

> I have BorjaV working on it

I'm tempted to flag BorjaV's account.

Comintern

I couldn't figure out who BorjaV is/was. There's no interaction from a "BorjaV" that I can see unless I'm missing something.

Hosch250

8:52 PM

Me either.

Maybe his comments were removed too?

Looks like some comments are gone.

Comintern

I flagged about 6 or 7.

Mathieu Guindon

got a bunch of free flags too :)

Comintern

I was going to suggest asking on reddit instead, but thought that might fan the flames a bit more.

Hosch250

I need to post a bit.ly link to a lmgtfy link.

To a hiring site.

Comintern

I'd recommend the "what-to-do-when-youre-an-@sshole" link above.

Hosch250

8:59 PM

Or a programming training site.

Comintern

LOL, OP doesn't know what language it is.

this

nah. sign him up on the linux dev mailing list.

Comintern

This is not VBA. — Nathan_Sav Feb 21 at 9:52

Whatever you say man — Casemiro Feb 21 at 9:55

Mathieu Guindon

flagged / no longer needed; flagged / rude or offensive

and, subtly edited vb.net tag into the post

mansellan

GIVE ME TEH CODEZ!!!

Mathieu Guindon

9:03 PM

yep

this

@mansellan 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 11, ....

mansellan

lol

puzzlepiece87

@MathieuGuindon Where do you prefer me to reference link RDVBA, Github or the website?

Mathieu Guindon

huh?

oh, you mean you want to link to the project in some comment? either website or github repo works :)

puzzlepiece87

@MathieuGuindon Exactly, thanks!

@MathieuGuindon Very brief mention at end of second section

Comintern

9:19 PM

Wow, Quack Exchange must be really slow today.

Quack Exchange

0

Q: Fixing Medical Claim Files through Text File Read/Write v2

This is another review on a program I've asked about before, with a different target in mind. Program Function As before, this program makes emergency changes to medical claim files, delivers all the corrected files analysts need, and produces a changelog as well for their review. Core Pr...

IvenBach

@this Everything that could go wrong did. SMH. Basic preparation wasn't done, at all.

Comintern

@puzzlepiece87 Was the Hungarian Notation inspection turned off? ;-)

Mathieu Guindon

lol

IvenBach

puzzles been known to tolerate HN. We still like him in spite of that fact.

Mathieu Guindon

9:38 PM

BUT IT'S WRONG

2

Comintern

lol

IvenBach

It's wrong to like him despite his HN tolerance?

Comintern

And inconsistently used. Dim Fix1 As classFix1

Although I do kind of like this one; With shtInQuestion

Mathieu Guindon

#EasterEggIdea: if HN inspection is disabled, inject Def[Type] instructions in all modules and enforce HN notation consistency. They'll turn the inspection back on all by themselves...

2

IvenBach

Ouch...

Comintern

9:41 PM

lol

puzzlepiece87

@Comintern How did you guess? :P

IvenBach

I no longer use HN but have been known to use Dim updateRange as Range post-fixing the type.

Mathieu Guindon

@IvenBach it's technically an Area

this

@MathieuGuindon how will that work for Single/String, Double/Date, and maybe few more?

Mathieu Guindon

@this it won't. that's the funny part!

2

Comintern

9:43 PM

oSnap

puzzlepiece87

xD

this

Issue 5443: Rubberduck breaks my code!!!

Hosch250

@this str much?

IvenBach

@MathieuGuindon :+1: You get that point... In my defence Typename() says Range.

this

@Hosch250 ?

Mathieu Guindon

9:44 PM

@IvenBach it is a Range. But calling it an Area informs the reader that it's a contiguous one :)

IvenBach

Your pedantry is a lot better than mine too.

Hosch250

String/Single.

puzzlepiece87

@Comintern should have held off on my comment but your requested sample class is up - request away, happy to include whatever you'd like to see in anonymized form

Hosch250

str is the string one.

IvenBach

Unless it's a non-contigous area, at which point it becomes an Areas.

Mathieu Guindon

9:45 PM

then I'd have expected updatedRanges, plural

this

@Hosch250 Yeah, I gathered that but why would you infer that I use HN from that?

Mathieu Guindon

;-)

Hosch250

Pro-tip. Don't name a type Area(s) in any language.

Mathieu Guindon

@Hosch250 it's a property

Hosch250

@this You don't.

Mathieu Guindon

9:46 PM

Range.Areas

Hosch250

Just saying you can tell Single apart from String.

this

Range.Asses works better, I think.

Hosch250

Otherwise, you get some NSFW code.

Mathieu Guindon

@this pfft. you use s for String, and # for single :)

this

@Hosch250 ah the point was that the DefType only works with only a single letter.

Mathieu Guindon

9:47 PM

(or is it !?)

Hosch250

What with keywords, and such.

@this Ohhhhh.

this

I don't think you can use a type character in front, though.

Hosch250

OK, just ignore me then :)

this

lol

Comintern

ohhhhhhhWaitForIiiiiiiiitObjectName

this

9:48 PM

ExcessiveConsonantsInspection

(and probably ExcessiveVowelsInspection, too)

puzzlepiece87

I can tell it's been too long since you all have had a variable naming comedy pyramid xD

Comintern

@this IrritableVowelInspection

IvenBach

Duck check: Whey does ?hex(ColorConstants.vbBlue) produce FF0000? Little endian architecture?

@Comintern Better than IrritableBowelInspection

this

@Comintern with a GoToBathroomQuickFix

blargh I can't type today

Hosch250

> IrritableOwlInspection :P

Mathieu Guindon

9:50 PM

@IvenBach I can almost hear the Scottish accent there

"whey"

IvenBach

27 secs ago, by this

blargh I can't type today

this

@IvenBach they reveresed the bits, IIRC

Comintern

@IvenBach Are you referring to the dup I closed today?

37

A: Return RGB values from Range.Interior.Color (or any other Color Property)

That "arbitrary" number is a mathematical combination of the RGB values (B*256^2 + G*256 + R) and a conversion of the hex color value to a decimal number (base 16 to base 10), depending on which way you want to look at it. Just different bases. Below is the method I use in the XLAM addin file I w...

IvenBach

Stealing my lines.

Mathieu Guindon

If RGB() numbers were encoded as R*256^2 + G*256 + B this wouldn't be VBA, where the simplest things must be quirky. In fact it's the other way around: B*256^2 + G*256 + R — Nickolay Apr 24 '18 at 11:17

bwahahaha

feels good to read an actual legit complaint for once

IvenBach

9:54 PM

Nope. Just an observation I had from long ago but only now can understand an answer.

Any reasoning as to why the bit order is swapped?

this

because they decided it'd be hilarious?

Mathieu Guindon

actually, the quirk is on the Excel OM, not VBA

Comintern

I'm pretty sure it was conventional for a long time to use that order. Couldn't tell you why though. HTML was responsible for swapping it IIR.

IvenBach

:note-down: "Historical reasoning" Mkay.

Comintern

RGBA color space

RGBA stands for red green blue alpha. While it is sometimes described as a color space, it is actually the three-channel RGB color model supplemented with a 4th alpha channel. Alpha indicates how opaque each pixel is and allows an image to be combined over others using alpha compositing, with transparent areas and anti-aliasing of the edges of opaque regions. The term does not define what RGB color space is being used. It also does not state whether or not the colors are premultiplied by the alpha value, and if they are it does not state what color space that premultiplication was done in. This...

Has more to do with standardized bitmap formats IIR.

Direct X also uses BGRA word ordering.

Mathieu Guindon

9:59 PM

@Nickolay FWIW the quirk is on the Excel object model (the type library), not VBA (the language). Excel v1.0 already needed back-compat with 1985 worksheets, and I'd assume Excel worksheet cell interior was a thing quite a few years before CSS was even a dream. Speaking of quirks... — Mathieu Guindon 8 secs ago

puzzlepiece87

@Comintern rubber glove snap

M.Doerner

I think the BGR order makes sense if you do not read it as it is displayed but from small to high bits.

Comintern

You mean processing it with bit-shifts instead of masks?

M.Doerner

Basically reading it from 8-bit sectioned storage.

I mean, numbers are usually not stored the way they are displayed.

Now, that you can have a 64-bit word, you can probably do it as you please, though.

Actually, 32-bit is sufficient.

Comintern

Unless you need completely absurd color depth.

M.Doerner

10:08 PM

A least the entire RGBA fits.

Comintern

Huh. I had no idea that jpg used the YCbCr color space.

M.Doerner

Does that better deal with greens?

Comintern

I think it compresses better without visible loss.

M.Doerner

Hm, seems to be used for TV as well.

Comintern

Yeah, that's why I was surprised that Direct X didn't use it.

M.Doerner

10:19 PM

Well, I guess the display driver requires RGB values in the end.

Storing in YCbCr makes sense though. That is basically how we see.

Comintern

That would make sense, although DX has a ton of pull with video hardware manufacturers. Probably less now than it once did.

IvenBach

10:51 PM

Mug. Thanks for your MVP example in VBA. Combing through my backlog of #StuffToLearn. stackoverflow.com/questions/47288496/… and my own attempt codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/213540/… make me feel like I've finally understood MVP and how to write it properly.

Duga

11:43 PM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] comintern assigned comintern to issue #4824: Refactor|Rename dialog box will not display

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