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NotThatGuy
NotThatGuy
15:19
@LinoFrankCiaralli Firstly, and probably most importantly, it's a huge issue that your response seems to basically be "they're not allowed to have fun in this way, they are only allowed to have fun in this other way that I command, and also that would ultimately be for their own good".
We have enough problems in the world that I don't get why people feel the need to try to destroy the harmless fun of others, just because they don't have fun in the same way. If a group wants to stay very close to the rules, it's not your place to tell them they may not do so. Of course, it doesn't sound like others in OP's group wants to play that way, which is less "RPGs just don't work that way" and more "when you do things with other humans, you have to compromise at times".
Secondly, your analogy is very flawed. Yes, some people don't study at all and pass, while others study hard and fail, but that still wouldn't make it fair or appropriate to out-of-nowhere award someone a bunch of points for drawing a pretty picture on their test. If you want to give points for that, you should make it clear up front that you'd do so (which, in this context, should probably be in a session 0).
 
2 hours later…
Lino Frank Ciaralli
Lino Frank Ciaralli
17:26
>they're not allowed to have fun in this way, they are only allowed to have fun in this other way that I command, and also that would ultimately be for their own good - No part of my response said, "They have to have fun in only my way. Please don't bring your personal projections into it. If you think that's what I've said, just ask me to clarify and I'll happily do so. The game has two rules that are prominently written into the very first paragraphs of the DMG that often get ignored. /1
I appreciate somebody who wants it to be predictable operating strictly on Rules as Written, but even Rules as Written includes the Rules as Fun and the Rulings over Rules concept that's a core feature of 5e. So much so that it's quite literally one of the first things stated in the DMG. Since the context of OP's discussion is with a group that does want to engage with all of these aspects, I'm less concerned with what the individual player wants. /2
> but that still wouldn't make it fair or appropriate to out-of-nowhere award someone a bunch of points for drawing a pretty picture on their test - Not the analogy I used and not applicable to the context of this discussion. OP's picture painted a tapestry of effort put into ace'ing that test. Problem player decided to add in a new check and balance that the DM didn't see require, and took issue that they weren't doing it. That ignores the efforts that the other player had put into their /3
part of the game and effectively comes across as a player side-DM'ing or rules-lawyering. As to their feelings, they're entitled to feel like the game shouldn't reward somebody when there's mechanics specifically for combat. Alternately, the DM doesn't HAVE to make it a combat situation. As you already pointed out, this group already appears to be on the same page by and large, except in this specific /4
instance. I'm not interested in assigning points, simply pointing out a perspective that Rules as Fun and Rulings over Rules are also two of the rules that rules lawyers often conveniently discard in favour of creating conflict. To me, that tends to scream attention seeking behaviour because the game isn't focusing on them, so they feel they need to interject or contribute. /5
I've been that guy before. It's not fun for anybody else. It's really good at killing groups. If the player only wants to focus on rules lawyering with no respect to the fact that the game is by design collaborative and requires compromise, then you're going to keep running into conflict. I'll provide you reference below to the section of the DMG for your own edification. /6
DMG pg.5 under the section Master of Rules.

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