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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

00:09
0
Q: What are the disadvangages of this far-fetched idea: All integers are bool arrays?

user16217248I do not know of any languages that support this idea but I just thought that since numbers are just bits, why should we not be able to access those bits directly? In most languages such as C or C++, to manipulate bits, one must use bitwise logic, confusing to some people. Related Stack Overflow ...

Oh I like this question
0
Q: What is keeping effect systems away from the mainstream?

Luiz FelipeEffect systems (aka algebraic effects), IMHO, are a pretty powerful construct that can be used to model various kinds of patterns which traditionally require "dedicated" features to express, such as error handling, asynchronous programming (through, e.g., async/await), etc. However, their adoptio...

0
Q: What are the advantages and disadvantages of immutable languages?

naffetSThis means variables can't be overwritten, arrays can't be modified, and nothing can be modified "in-place" - a new variable has to be created. Or if you need to modify it with a loop, then you would need recursion or foldl/similar. What are the advantages and disadvantages of complete immutabili...

00:33
@NewPosts calling it now: comments on this are going to devolve quickly
0
Q: What is the purpose of mandating OOP?

user16217248Some languages such as Java and C# are not only object-oriented, but only (in another sense) object-oriented. They require object-oriented programming. All must be part of a class. Some simple programs are procedural by design, such as command line tools. And requiring a class for the program doe...

0
Q: How linear types interact with features that may change the normal control flow?

Luiz FelipeLinear types are quite a powerful feature of type systems that ensure that "linear values" are used exactly once. For example, fn foo(): let handle = acquire_linear_value() // ... drop(handle) The compiler would force passing handle to some function like close before the function end...

@RydwolfPrograms your script didn't work, the review tab did nothing until I reloaded it
Did you already have the tab open before installing the script?
interesting
00:43
Chrome has recently started suspending inactive tabs to save memory, though
01:03
0
Q: What are the pros and cons of languages that use wrapping brackets?

RedzGooseThere are coding languages (such as C, C++, Dart and JavaScript) that use brackets to wrap for loops, while loops, functions and other elements, like this: function { stuff } while (something) { stuff } But there are also languages (Python) that don't use brackets, like this: function: ...

wait I did not leave that comment why is it there
what
review queues
that and auto comments from marking as dupe
> auto comments from marking as dupe
TIL that's a thing
yeah it's a thing for most close reasons iirc
There are two ways to make an auto-comment when voting to close. The first is when voting to close as a duplicate (and you can edit that if you want) - It's auto-deleted if the question is closed unless you edited it.
The second is by using the "Other" close reason. It's also deleted if the question is closed.
01:11
I love it when someone downvotes without explaining why 😒
The post I'm referring to this time: languagedesign.stackexchange.com/questions/416/… If I can improve this, please tell me how
@NewPosts How is the fifth close voter Community [Bot]?
That is what it shows up as when the user self-closes without close-vote rights
good to know
---
The review script just worked so idk what was going on earlier
01:40
0
Q: What should [vectors] refer to?

user16217248Vectors can refer to either expandable array data structures of elements, for example std::vector, or to a SIMD vector type, which is typically fixed-sized and permits one instruction to act on all of the values at once. What should vectors refer to? Ambiguous tags are frowned upon. My vote is us...

02:11
@Bbrk24 What browser?
Also what do you mean by "did nothing" and "until I reloaded it"? As long as it's showing the "Previous Update" clock it's currently running
Once a review task comes in, its default behavior is to silently open it in a new tab
I loaded the page and pinned it, but the update clock didn't start until I refreshed, and it didn't spawn any new tabs. Can't reproduce it now though
Was there anything in the queue when you did that (dumb question sorry)
Yeah, one or two suggested edits
Could just be just-got-installed-weirdness
yeah
I love all these SE userscripts, they've improved my experience by a considerable margin
02:16
I'm always looking for new scripts to build, so if you think of anything I should make a script for lmk
Soon I'll be porting my comment hotkey script over to PLDI
I'm so used to hitting Alt+Shift+0 in an FA task it throws me off every time I get a PLDI one
Since on CGCC that pastes a basic "Welcome to CGCC!" that I'll edit any extra stuff into
Yeah ik you have macros for that, I saw that script and opted not to install it
0
Q: What kinds of features lead to long compilation times?

IsaiahNo one likes waiting around for minutes (or even hours!) for their programs to compile. When designing languages, we should be cognizant that some features may require more work to parse and understand and thus lead to longer waiting times. What kinds of features are especially susceptible to cau...

I'm not getting nearly as many upvotes now, maybe I should've delayed my two posts this afternoon until after UTC midnight so they'd actually count towards my rep
Also, how do you navigate to /tags and /unanswered? I've been typing them in the address bar but there must be some way to get there via UI
@Bbrk24 Click on "questions" in the sidebar first
Where in the sidebar?
I see: featured on meta/hot meta posts, custom filters, watched tags, ignored tags, invite fellow experts, visit chat, and hot network questions
I don't see that at all
@Bbrk24 the initial hype fading away be like that
@Bbrk24 burger menu on the left
thanks
0
Q: Why do some languages not have an 'unreachable' function?

Bbrk24Several languages have a function or macro to indicate that a certain point in control flow cannot be reached, even though the compiler cannot statically prove it, such as unreachable!() in Rust and __builtin_unreachable() in gcc. However, some languages don't have this. Even Swift, which borrowe...

Would I get in trouble for posting this?
02:43
@Bbrk24 no
Because you'd get caught on the review question page :p
Just worried I'd get in trouble for the is all
Alright, I'll post it then
It literally doesn't let you
oh yeah huh
02:45
> Your question couldn't be submitted. Please see the error above.
I see
That's why I said that you wouldn't get in trouble :p
@Bbrk24 For what it's worth I personally wouldn't see this sort of question as very suitable for the site - it's got a tenuous connection via "standard library" but at heart basically a CS2 question
Like a stack is obvious, and we always used std::vector as a stack. But at least in my classes we never covered the low-level details of more efficient queue implementations
If you use an array, either enqueue or dequeue is going to be O(n)
02:53
@Bbrk24 Right, so that feels like boat language design to me
There's also the fact that, as I pointed out, there seem to be multiple ways to do it (C++ uses a doubly-linked list of arrays, while C# uses a circular buffer, for example), which really isn't the case for most other collection types I'm aware of
There's one obvious answer for a stack. There's not one obvious answer for a queue
@Bbrk24 couldn't it be O(1) if you also track size? Like append to dynamic array would be resize, insert at start pointer + length
Oh but dequeue would still be o(n)
yeah see
But what if the head pointer was incremented to now start at position + 1
you just reinvented the circular buffer
:P
strictly speaking the circular buffer also allows wrap-around, so the end can be before the start in some cases
02:57
but that could be applied to the resizable array though right
@Bbrk24 also imagine being allowed to use pre-existing data types
Oh, so you're saying to do that for all vectors/arraylists/etc rather than just the ones backing queues?
@Bbrk24 yeah
hm. I'll have to think about that, that's an interesting concept
That should work for removal from head right?
It does add a fourth field ("offset" in addition to ptr/len/cap) but the cost of that should be negligible
02:58
@Bbrk24 Which could make for a good question on SO about implementation, on CS about computational complexity, on SE about maintainability... but it doesn't really relate to language design materially, does it?
I don't know, it feels like a bit of a stretch to me. The meta post does say "standard library", no caveats, so
@Bbrk24 back in my day (2 years ago) we had to implement the linked lists for a queue ourselves
Oh, yes. I remember that now. I don't miss that class
The final was to implement a linked list from scratch in 2 hours. Your grade was how many unit tests passed. You had 2 attempts.
Frick really?
Yikes
They were originally going to only allow one attempt but partway through they saw that the class average was 20% and changed their minds
That's even worse
03:01
I do not miss that class.
I can imagine
Hello
Howdy!
Hello
how are you?
@SaLiMuGa doing good
heee, yeha, that's very good
I'm sorry but, just by chance... Do you know how to program in C for the STM32F103C8 board? 😭
I do
I've used it lool
03:45
0
Q: Are checked exceptions inherently inconvenient? How to design them in a more ergonomic manner?

Luiz FelipeIn Java, checked exceptions are well-known to be extremely unergonomic, to the point that many people circumvent them. Evidently, checking exceptions, if done properly, can lead to a more robust code—which is an excellent advantage. Rust's approach using Result, though not an exception, shows thi...

04:06
Is there anything still missing in my question that I could improve upon?
04:28
0
Q: Language Feature vs Standard Library

CaseyBWhat are some factors that determine what features get built into the language itself and which ones get implemented in the standard library.

04:59
0
Q: Why would a language such as C or C++ have a concept of undefined behavior?

user16217248Certain constructs or conditions in programming just are not allowed. Languages such as Java or Swift handle these by raising an error when encountered. C and C++ on the other hand say 'Anything could happen, might error, might work, might work some of the time.' What are the advantages of leavin...

 
2 hours later…
06:43
0
Q: What Benefits Does Python Gain From not Having Constants?

lyxalA lot of languages have some form of constant variables - hell, even JavaScript has them. Yet python doesn't. What possible benefits does this have for the python language?

0
Q: How to make a programming language for web development

DoevickI initially had the idea to create a traditional programming language, but then I questioned its purpose. As a newcomer to programming language concepts and designs, I wanted to create something innovative specifically for web development (I want it to be like python [as in its source code readab...

> good design like javascript's 🤣
6
 
1 hour later…
07:56
0
Q: What alternatives to macros there is for meta programming?

ViolaFor example instead of macros Zig has comptime feature that allows codegen like implementation of arbitrary arity functions while being native Zig code and not some separate macro language.

08:51
 
1 hour later…
10:00
0
Q: What are the requirements to advance to Public Beta?

Starship is go for launchI have seen that this is the next step and that we have 5 weeks max to do it, but preferrably in 1 week. What even are the requirements though? I saw the "How can you help PDLI make it from Private to Public Beta" but it doesnt say the hard requirements. How is a self sustaining community measure...

10:38
0
Q: More possible ternary operators

FireTheLostIn many programming languages, there is a ternary operator such as X ? Y : Z or Y if X else Z. This can be used as an if expression. However, I was wondering what other ternary operators are possible and useful. I was looking for operations that come up frequently enough to warrant their own synt...

11:23
> You have 2 votes left today
How does this keep happening to me
If you are voting, (honestly and within SE rules) you are doing a good thing.
Also, I got a bunch more overnight, so I’m five votes away from hitting the repcap a third time
11:43
@Adám lmao
I did some math and @Ginger has the highest amount of reputation per post, with an average of 41.3333
huh
that'll probably change soon tho
but for now I suppose I should go ask another question, if everything's going so well for me :p
It's not close at all though, I'm next down but have only 34 per post
lmao I'm already over a quarter of the way to the repcap and I haven't even done anything
this site's gonna be the best thing that will ever happen to my network-wide rep
Wonder how many days I can keep this streak going
11:46
0
Q: What to focus on when creating a programming language?

Peter KolosovWhat to focus on when creating a programming language: the performance or the readability?

^ Seems a bit too opinion based
0
Q: Must async functions always be marked as such?

GingerIn a lot of modern languages (primarily Python), asynchronous functions (those that return coroutines) must be explicitly marked as such: async function foo(): pass Is there any specific reason for this, and if so is there a way to avoid it?

@NewPosts I would say too broad - what kind of programming language is being made?
That was fast
11:49
@NewPosts Ironically that question needs more focus.
agreed lol
(to both)
and then what kind of focus on readability do you want? Are you talking about pure visuals, or are you talking about things like orthogonality, data structure choices and so on?
author deleted it
12:10
0
Q: I am get scared with this site

Peter KolosovWoah, downvoters and closers are simply EVEN not comment. (515 question, deleted, closed, without comments)

ಠ_ಠ
@NewPosts I have one question, What?
He is get scared with this site
and apparently unhappy about our propensity for closing bad questions
He deleted the new post so fast, didn't even have time to respond
man, the tag is just full of consistent high quality questions
also how does this even happen in private beta lmao
12:14
@UnrelatedString "if you pester them enough they're sure to listen!"
Ok I repcapped
i know
Mildly creepy but thanks
Vyxal Inc. is always watching
i mean the repcap came from a vote i left but sure
12:17
You are behind me aren't you
I sure am!
I was wondering where that smell came from
no, that's Jeff
he lives in your walls
Does Jeff smell like paintthinner or am I going crazy? I've been looking for the source all morning
i'm starting to go back on saying pldi won't need an off topic room
good thing we know messages can be moved cross-site from experience :)
12:25
Feel free to make a off topic room
@UnrelatedString no, you're UnrelatedString
ah, thanks
no worries
no
it's not a duplicate
12:31
How
it wants ternary operators that aren't ?:
> what other ternary operators are possible and useful
But the original question still answers that
this is the original question without ?:
one wants syntax options
the other wants ternary operators that aren't ?:
@Seggan I don't see the original question having the multiply–accumulate operation, the in-between operation and the range operation
12:34
@lyxal oooooh
0
Q: What syntax options exist for variable destructuring/unpacking?

lyxalSome languages allow you to write something like x, y, z = (1, 2, 3) Which is equivalent to x = 1 y = 2 z = 3 What are some of the syntax constructs that exist that perform variable destructuring/unpacking?

0
Q: How to store variables in an interpreted language?

lyxalSay I'm making an interpreted language. What's the best way for me to store variable name/value pairs (or type/name/value triplets in the case of languages with typing)?

CMQ: Should we do an RO election now or wait until public beta?
@NewPosts not me on my way to ask questions that I've had in the past from making certain languages
@Ginger public beta
agreed
only because it'd throw extra instability into the mix
during private that is
12:41
well, I do love some instability
well would you look at that
they do use the full name field after all :p
lol
unrelated note: switching between code golf and pldi is jarring when looking at the top bar - one has a whole lot of progress while the other only has 2 numbers :p
Write a userscript that gives you fake gold badges
12:46
T minus 4 hours until room rename
@mousetail like that? :p
Wow you are catching up to my number of bronze badges
I was wondering why I has .8, you stole a fifth
that's not all i stole
thanks for the arms bozo
Now I need to type with my nose :(
you problem + skill issue
12:50
Imagine if you got a physical bronze disk delivered every time you got a bronze badge, I'd have so many
I'd have at least 150
Probably about the same for me for all sites combined
I'd get 4 gold disks though which would be cool
two of my silver discs would be clones
Which ones?
my 2 code-golf silvers :p
12:54
0
Q: What are the pros and cons of focusing a language around events?

UndoneStudiosSo I was considering making a better version of Scratch, because I started my programming hobby using it. However, as it stands, Scratch is unsuitable for usual programming, mainly because it's intended for young kids, but event-based programming has stuck with me. Programming with events in Pyth...

How did you manage that
dunno
just happened
7
Q: Double tag badge

userIt looks like one user was awarded the silver code-golf badge twice at the same time. Their badges page also shows the badge being awarded twice: This looks like a bug. It could be that Lyxal messed something up by traveling in time to get it twice, but if it's happened to others, it may need t...

there's a meta post on it and everything
Probably a race condition
Same thing that leads to people occasionally being able to vote on the same post twice
I thought that was due to having an answer open in two different pages
the amount of times I've (probably) accidentally double voted is uncanny
You realistically need it open in 2 pages to pull it off yes but also the servers need to be borked in just the right way
It was decided that there was no way to pull it off reliably enough to commit fraud so not fixed
13:00
@mousetail my mood often changes. I'm sorry!!!!!!
Glad you came to chat
Sorry me please...
It's understandable to be frustated when your post is closed
so what's next?
The issue with your question was that it can't be answered. Every language has it's own goal, some try to be readable, some try to be performant, all try to be both. We can't really decide the goal of your language for you
I'd encourage you to ask more questions but try to ask questions that would lead to good answers that could help many people besides yourself
13:07
I'm sorry again...
I'm very sorry...
It's perfectly fine
Yes we understand.
It's about the post, not you. Plenty of my questions (on other sites) have been closed too
It requires some practice to ask good questions
@mousetail I agree
0
Q: Is it a good idea to let functions cache their outputs?

Dannyu NDosBecause a bare function object might not have constant time complexity, and because the function object might be called with the same argument repeatedly, I thought it might be good to cache its outputs. This is possible if the function has equality-comparable domain. Let me illustrate by a C++ c...

13:12
Hope it wasn't a dumb question
sounds similar to memoization
Yeah, memoization, but stronger.
And conditionally forced.
How's the beta going?
It's 22:23 here tho
Yeah but I just woke up :p
13:23
nothing is on fire yet
so that's good
What does it mean to be "on fire"?
@RydwolfPrograms I think it is inappropriate for a RO to speak like that.
It's a reference
Some might not get it.
@Adám i dont
Me neither
in The Nineteenth Byte, Apr 27, 2021 at 12:58, by Redwolf Programs
Redwolf: Good morning.
Lyxal: Good morning.
Razetime: Good morning.
caird: You all sound like robots, try spicing it up a bit.
user: MORNING MOTHERF*****S
i was about to ask what it's a reference to
yall clearly have no culture
heathens
Anyway, 127 questions already is incredible
and then remark about how it immediately reminded me of how i just listened through a full 2 hour reading of my immortal while doing minecraft builds because one of my friends started characterizing the aesthetic of the arena he was making as "goffik"
And we've got fewer unanswered questions than we did yesterday
Our answers/question ratio is slipping tho, we might want to focus on answering if anyone's bored today
13:30
Almost every time I see the "review needed" 🔴 and go there, there queue has already been cleared. How do I actually get to review posts?
@RydwolfPrograms yeah I’m doing that
@Adám You're going to need a review script if you want any chance at it
@Adám review userscript, as was discussed yesterday
At least three of us have them
i know some people have userscripts for sniping them
13:30
Also, you'll be seeing a red dot by suggested edits until tomorrow
Since there're tag wiki edits in there that none of us can review yet
why does SE always make my message send second
Might be further from New York or have a slower connection
(assuming they host chat in New York rather than on a server farm elsewhere)
Am I the only one who thinks the name "IO", in Haskell, sucks?
@RydwolfPrograms I’m closer than you at least
it's nice and short
and descriptive
13:32
It's really a catch-all monad for every impure actions. Gotta be better words.
That's why I'm gonna rename it Karmic.
Well from a certain perspectice every impure action is some sort of input or output
@UnrelatedString also it was strange aeons' reading; turns out he's a fan of hers lol
@DannyuNDos for every impure action with respect to the whole program state
i.e. things that are governed by things external to the program
and therefore through i/o
karmic is still a cool-ass name for it though
karmize :: a -> Karmic a
karmize = pure
@RydwolfPrograms I managed to review one before the script kiddies got it
Well I probably got it, and I'm not a script kiddie since I made the script :p
13:38
Sorry I just meant people with scripts, no intend to imply it wasn't yours
"Script kiddie" has a connotation of "have no clue what they're doing and just using someone else's stuff"
It's not like anyone using the review script doesn't have the skill to check the queues themselves :p
0
Q: What are the common reasons to create a new programming language?

GlorfindelDesigning and implementing a programming language (and maintaining it) is a lot of effort, so there must be a good reason to make it worth doing. Other than "just because I can", what is people's motivation to do it? Are existing (common) languages maybe not performant or concise enough for certa...

0
Q: Are very explanatory compiler error messages worth their weight in work needed to support them?

SpevacusThis question is related to, but not the same as, What are some ways of reporting compilation errors? as that questions gets into the design of handling compiler errors at the compiler level (and the answer there gives personal examples of their approach to handling them). This question is more o...

When y'all are writing tag wiki excerpts, please make sure you're including usage explanations instead of just defining the tag! It's a lot easier to review if I just have to approve them :P Most of y'all are doing great, just thought I'd call it out here.
13:57
...how can i make this more weird
On the topic of tag wikis, if you're in the business of writing them, consider having a look at What is a tag wiki? How do I write a good one? which puts particular emphasis on the Excerpt (aka the usage guidance) since that's the most info most users will ever see about a tag.
The Tl;dr of it is... when writing the excerpt, you should explain how to use the tag, not just what the tag is about. What the tag is about should go in the tag wiki's body.
Example: - For questions about C's design, or languages which are closely related to C - is a solid, if lightweight, excerpt.
14:16
Hello
Is that you, or a bot? The response was instantaneous
It was me :p
I'm just very attentive to possible excuses to procrastinate doing schoolwork
what kind of schoolwork?
Studying for an AP exam tomorrow, European History
14:19
history is boring
luckily my exams start next week
Sounds like you haven't found the right kind of history yet
Well there's probably some part of history that really interests you. Like, I don't think there's anybody who finds all of history interesting
tbh I find it all boring
especially the ones about my own country
15:06
0
Q: What are the pros and cons of traits in comparison with interfaces?

Rydwolf ProgramsIn Rust, structs and enums may implement any number of traits, which specify certain functions. When a struct/enum implements a trait, this is where the functions are defined: impl Foo for Thing { fn bar() { ... } } This allows one type to implement two or more traits with methods with confl...

16:01
If nobody objects, I will be changing the room name in about 45 minutes
what is your objection
I request that you wait until the end of the private beta before making any decisions.
We can change it again after the end of the beta
^
the top answer has a net score of +16
16:04
It gives a chance for more suggestions to be made and be voted on.
more suggestions can be made later
and I highly doubt any will come up
I feel like I am in a wedding. (The part about objections and stuff, just saying.)
I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere
It's not like the room name is fixed in stone after you change it :P
@Ginger Well it's based on the part when someone says, "Speak now or forever hold your peace."
16:12
I enabled syntax highlighting on Main and Meta.
nice
Awesome
Also MathJax?
Not quite sure I understand the MJ request. Highlighting is obvious; MJ less so.
For most of the same reasons as CS I think
More complex implementation questions might need to include time complexity, various formulas, CS notation, etc.
It's not so much a "no you can't has" as a "It will take me more than a minute to consider and understand it, so I'm going to let it go through the standard process"... so I'll add the status-review tag but let it be assigned to someone as a task.
16:19
:thumbsup:
0
Q: How can a First Answer be in the Queue multiple times?

user16217248I just noticed an answer that has been in the First Answers Queue twice. I have not seen this on other sites such as Stack Overflow before. Why is this site able to have First Answers enter the Queue multiple times?

0
Q: Segmented Stack Efficiency

WormholeXSegmented stacks are one method to enable the growth of execution stacks in multi-threaded paradigms at runtime, instead of having to statically pre-allocate a fixed-sized stack at compile time. Some languages including Go and Rust at one point in their design considered using segmented stacks fo...

16:36
I'm the second person to earn a silver badge on this site
Wait so that makes me the first? :o
Yep seems like it
Actually I'm pretty sure you're the third
And kaya's first
Since they got lifejacket before I did
Oh nvm I'm actually 4th
16:40
Yea Rydwolf has 2 silver badges
@mousetail You're the first to earn one other than lifejacket?
No Rydwolf earned enlightened first too
How was I the first person to get Englightened, I'm not even an avid answerer lol
You put into words the best what everyone was thinking I guess, the answer to that question is obvious but you explained it well
People don't seem to accept very much also giving others a disadvantage
Particularly the 'list' style questions which are common on this site have a low accept rate
16:45
Necessarily so
My answer had a score of ten for days but was accepted just now
Wonder what our first gold badge will be
Fanatic will be given out in 100 days, anything that can be done sooner?
Electorate can be earned before fanatic for extremely determined voters
We'd need 600 questions to even vote for, but maybe we'll get there by 100 days
Plus, given the vote limit, the soonest that can happen is still a couple weeks out
Where at day 3 and have 131 questions, at this rate we'll have 600 in a few weeks.
What was the LQP you reviewed? What's it like to review LQP? I've only reviewed LQA on SO.
16:52
SE can’t decide whether to recommend I track “Civic Duty” or “Curious”
Copy Editor might be the first gold actually
Curious probably first
Well 500 is a big-ish number
yeah but it’s possible for someone to get faster if they’re dedicated enough
Looks like Unsung Hero ain't happening anytime soon
But some lucky person with a strong social media connection might be able to earn Publicist in no time
00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

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