The Sphinx's Lair

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate" is a pun off of it - the clue is referencing that pun, but not necessarily actually based off of it

Sciborg

@Bubbler But anagrams have to be the whole word, I thought that was a cryptic rule.

Deusovi

@Bubbler that would be an indirect anagram

@Sciborg they don't have to be the whole word, but the thing(s) to be anagrammed must be given directly in the clue

North Læraðr

I'm not sure how useful this Wikipedia page is

Coprecipitation

In chemistry, coprecipitation (CPT) or co-precipitation is the carrying down by a precipitate of substances normally soluble under the conditions employed. Analogously, in medicine, coprecipitation is specifically the precipitation of an unbound "antigen along with an antigen-antibody complex".Coprecipitation is an important issue in chemical analysis, where it is often undesirable, but in some cases it can be exploited. In gravimetric analysis, which consists on precipitating the analyte and measuring its mass to determine its concentration or purity, coprecipitation is a problem because undesired...

user478740

Hmmm

Bubbler

I don't want to think it's that deep in chemistry

Avi

12:23 AM

precipitate is an anagram indicator

for the record

Sciborg

it is?

Avi

yeah...

Deusovi

lots of things are [supposedly] anagram indicators

I would not buy "precipitate" as one

Avi

"cause (an event or situation, typically one that is bad or undesirable) to happen suddenly, unexpectedly, or prematurely."

user478740

But what word to anagram...

Avi

12:23 AM

I wouldn't take it as an indicator in this context

Sciborg

the only anagram I know for "precipitate" is "peripatetic" i think?

Deusovi

@Anonymus25 it would have to be the words directly adjacent to it. this is part of how cryptic clues work. I recommend reading the guide and trying some easier clues

Avi

Maybe like "Crisis precipitated by..."

North Læraðr

@Avi There are no anagrams of "OFTHE"

user478740

ARRGGHH WHAT A TORTURE

Avi

12:24 AM

@NorthLæraðr the* or ofthe*

or even part of the*

but, like I said, I'd expect to see "precipitated" with the current placement, and this isn't valid

Deusovi

@Sciborg "anagram indicators" means that something would tell you to anagram something else - e.g. "Poorly-constructed bridge [...]" could be BIG RED, where "poorly-constructed" is an anagram indicator

Sciborg

@Deusovi Ah, okay. I wasn't fully sure how those worked, my bad.

North Læraðr

@Deusovi Am I allowed to use Qat for thesaurus?

Deusovi

what do you mean by "allowed to"

Avi

I mean, I'd always try attempting to solve the clue without Qat first

Deusovi

12:26 AM

the cryptic clue police aren't going to come lock you up if you do

4

user478740

Did you find something?

Avi

police sirens start blaring

Deusovi

and I think at this point we've passed "let's try solving this purely by hand" territory

Sciborg

door breaks down CRYPTIC CLUE POLICE OPEN UP

North Læraðr

Cool. I'm using Qat for thesaurus use. I'm not good enough to try and actually use it in a fancy way

Deusovi

12:27 AM

(some people try to hold off on using tools for the first day or so, but there's definitely no hard-and-fast rule)

Avi

We've found evidence of indirect anagramming, sir. Please back away from the door and keep your words to yourself. You have the right to stay silent.

North Læraðr

@Avi They usually don't say keep your words to yourself IRL, I don't think

Avi

And look what we have here! Madam, please distance yourself from these letters selected from synonyms - they can be highly volatile.

North Læraðr

If anything, police cough cough want you to say something incriminating cough cough, hence the Miranda warning

Avi

@NorthLæraðr ya but these are the cryptic clue police

North Læraðr

12:29 AM

Uh, why does LANCE come out as a synonym of saw?

adage axiom carve crest gnome halve lance maxim moral motto prune sever slash slice split sutra verse

Deusovi

because the thesaurus entries are not perfect

True

Moral, eh....

SUTRA?

they're based on wordnet, which tries to categorize things among a lot of different semantic lines rather than strict synonymy

bobble

12:30 AM

@Sciborg you have a puzzle buddy? Lucky...

North Læraðr

Ah

@bobble WILL YOU BE MY PUZZLE BUDDY BOBBLE

Sciborg

@bobble He's the "birdbrain" referenced in my ornithology puzzles :)

I do like MORAL because a lot of adages do end with morals...

North Læraðr

OLD SAW spits out PROSE

user478740

@Sciborg Anagram of MORAL? Endless...

Deusovi

that's not how cryptic clues work

that would be an indirect anagram, which is not allowed

Sciborg

12:33 AM

again, please, please, please, please read the guide

bobble

@NorthLæraðr sure

user478740

Hmmmmm

North Læraðr

Yay I have a puzzle buddy

bobble

Anon, we are begging you at this point

user478740

What's the WORDDDDD

Deusovi

12:34 AM

we don't know

Avi

92

Q: Cryptic Clue Guide

This post is not a puzzle. There is nothing puzzly hidden inside it or the self-answer, posted at the same time. What exactly is a cryptic crossword clue, and how do I write one?

Deusovi

if we knew, we would've stated it here

North Læraðr

If we knew, we wouldn't be having this conversation

Avi

but this might help you find out

bobble

@NorthLæraðr A crown and some bobblies sitting with a tree. P-U-Z-Z-I-N-G.

North Læraðr

12:35 AM

@bobble You should've kept the L out, it fits the rhythm better :P

Avi

P-U-Z-L-I-N-G

bobble

When I say "puzzing" letter-by-letter, my brain accepts it as "puzzling"

Avi

constructed language = conlang

North Læraðr

Quick note: I've seem BROMIDE pop up a few times. I know it's seven letters, but if I remember my chemistry from last year, bromide is a precipitate in some chemical combinations, I think

Saw can mean bromide or bromine or something of that sort

But urgghh, it's seven letters long

bobble

bromide would be part of a precipitate: it's an ion, it would be part of an ionic salt

Bubbler

12:38 AM

Somehow came up with ETHIC, using substring of "likE THIs" and C = carbon in "part of the precipitate"

Avi

but then "ends" doesn't do anything

North Læraðr

@Bubbler Hold up, you might be onto comething

bobble

who is "you"?

user478740

OMG

North Læraðr

Ends "likE THIs"

Sciborg

12:38 AM

@Bubbler I could see ETHIC fitting the definition, but the wordplay there is iffy...

Bubbler

"ends" could be one end of likE and one end of THIs

Avi

"like this part" = ETHI, but then "of the precipitate" isn't C

North Læraðr

@Bubbler Is that allowed?

Sciborg

But carbon?

user478740

Idk

bobble

12:39 AM

"saw off the ends" of "like this"?

Avi

yeah in generally it's too stretchy

@bobble that might be IKHI

North Læraðr

@Avi Part of a precipitate. I think Carbon might be a precipitate no?

user478740

@Avi CCs are supposed to be stretchy

Bubbler

Carbon only works if we take literally "part of the precipitate"

Avi

@NorthLæraðr "part" can't do double duty

Sciborg

12:40 AM

I don't know... I think it is plausible but it doesn't fit perfectly. It doesn't feel like that snappy solution

Avi

@Anonymus25 no

bobble

@Anonymus25 no, they have to follow rules

please, PLEASE read the guide

Deusovi

@Anonymus25 that is very much not true

Sciborg

At this point either @Anonymus25 is just ignoring us begging them to learn how puzzles work, or is actively trolling

North Læraðr

Carbon in carbide is part of a precipitate. Though, wordplay is sketch

Avi

12:41 AM

if you do "ETHIC" = ETHI + C

let me show you what will happen

"saw ends" off of "like this" to become ETHI

"part of the precipitate" becomes "C"

and finally, your definition is "An old"

bobble

"C" is a letter that is part of "precpitate"

Avi

"An old" is not ETHIC

Bubbler

Yeah, I figured that

Sciborg

I still don't buy it. It's too iffy. C4s should be precise and every piece of wordplay should be clearly clued.

North Læraðr

Why not just ends LIKE THIS?

alright, alright

user478740

12:43 AM

UGHHHHH

Bubbler

The saw is literally sawing people's brains

Avi

Just saw it right out the door.

Deusovi

@Anonymus25 this is getting to be pretty spammy - please stop

Sciborg

@Bubbler Hold up... that might be something. Bone saws?

bobble

@Anonymus25 repeatedly complaining about how hard this clue is (in all-caps!), then tossing out "solutions" that don't comply with CC rules, is not useful. I'm pretty sure that everyone else here is annoyed with it. Please stop.

North Læraðr

12:44 AM

^

Sciborg

I am getting annoyed yes.

user478740

Sorry

North Læraðr

Can "like this" be some sort of abbreviation in terms of like a prefix?

Avi

yes - deusovi suggested "eg"

North Læraðr

or suffix

user478740

12:45 AM

@bobble Just got carried away

Sciborg

I love "eg" but there's precious few five-letter words that could fit with.

Bubbler

We had eg and sic, but neither led us anywhere I think

Avi

elegy?

North Læraðr

Why sic?

@Avi ? How?

bobble

could "this part" be a unit?

Avi

12:46 AM

doesn't work

"egham" might be punny for Green Eggs and Ham

North Læraðr

@bobble What do you mean by a unit?

bobble

of wordplay

North Læraðr

I'm not sure what it would indicate though. I guess that's what you're asking :P

Sciborg

Hmm, so instead of considering "this" and "part" separately, we could consider "this part" ignoring the punctuation that appears to separate it.

Maybe the punctuation is deliberately misleading.

bobble

^^

Avi

12:47 AM

yes, punctuation is ignorable in CCs, though sometimes serves some function

North Læraðr

of the precipitate definitely sounds like a plausible word

bobble

It's useful to stop assuming along punctuation lines

if nothing else, it's an idea

Sciborg

Maybe we can try clearing our minds and consider:
"An old saw ends like this part of the precipitate."

Because we've only been told the definition half is at the start.

Bubbler

Then how would we interpret "of the precipitate" as a wordplay?

anagram of "of the"?

Sciborg

Or, alternatively, "this part of the precipitate" is the wordplay.

user478740

12:49 AM

@Bubbler We kinda tried that already

Sciborg

My point is just that maybe the halves aren't separated like we think they are.

user478740

@Sciborg You've got a good point

Sciborg

I do like the idea of "an old saw ends like this part | of the precipitate"

where that first half is the definition, as confirmed by msh

North Læraðr

> "To make the surface work well, I made the definition half both wordier than I would normally and slightly less exactly matching the answer than I would normally."

Definitely possible

But how could that lengthy definition mean anything?

Sciborg

"an old saw ends like this part (of the body)"... which could hint something like TEETH?

North Læraðr

12:54 AM

@Sciborg ARG that's what I said before!

bobble

for wordplay ideas, maybe "of the" + "precipitate" charade?

Sciborg

Just trying to help us think outside the box :p

user478740

Back to the drawing board :.(

Avi

THE precipitate = ETH

Sciborg

"of the" + "precipitate" charade is interesting.

Avi

12:54 AM

which ends like teeth

North Læraðr

where do we get te though?

Avi

from @msh210's giant hint bin

Sciborg

Or... "an old saw ends | like this part of the precipitate"...

North Læraðr

"In the Iron Age, frame saws were developed holding the thin blades in tension.[2] The earliest known sawmill is the Roman Hierapolis sawmill from the third century AD and was for sawing stone."

Bubbler

an old saw ends | like this | part of | the precipitate?

Sciborg

12:56 AM

"an old saw | ends like this part of the precipitate"?

So many options :p

North Læraðr

"Brass:Used only for the reinforcing folded strip along the back of backsaws, and to make the screws that in earlier times held the blade to the handle." -Wikipedia

Though not sure of the wordplay. Arg

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