@OnlyTrueGod Hebrews 11:3 from the REV translation: By trust we understand that the ages have been put in order by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made out of things that are visible. Are things that are seen material? Are they in one of the "ages" or does the material world exist outside all of the ages? Does Revelation 21:2 describe something which happens in one of the "ages?"

And how about the extra-Biblical works which Thayers and BDAG list which use the word to describe the material world? Even a cursory check of the lexicon shows the word is used to describe the material world. My point is Deuble can quibble over the translation but his comment about never is baloney.

@RevelationLad Are you asking me what 'ages' refers to in Hebrews 11:3? It sounds like it refers to an eras - ages. The verse is a bit opaque, and looking a commentary confirms that to me, where commentators give their theories about what it means exactly. The point about 'ages' isn't that the material world isn't part of an age. ?

@RevelationLad Deuble isn't saying 'ages' has nothing to do with the material world. Songs, for ex., occur in the material world. But referring to 'songs' is very different from referring to the 'universe'. I think you're taking a specific interpretation of his word 'spiritual' that isn't intended by Deuble.