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12:00 AM
Give it a rest already. Nobody cares.
 
@ACube @Jay's right, i'm not getting into this again. Rally all you want
 
LoL
Point is guys! WArs are bad and those who fight it are bad too
 
@JayLancePhotography i'm encouraged that the offer is legit because its from an email address of a strictly local ISP...but i keep waiting for "but wait, i'd like to <insert insane thing here>"
 
Right. I hear ya.
I hope it goes well!
 
i had one local offer for 60% of my asking price , and the money, not being money but a 6 year old laptop lol
@JayLancePhotography eh, if it does, it does, if not. its no big loss
hows the thumb?
 
12:03 AM
I'll take that 6yo pos laptop off your hands... for $200 more than my current asking price... :-)
 
lol
ya
 
@rfusca Thumb hurts. Makes typing slower than usual. Still feeling dumb about cutting myself...
sigh
At least it wasn't a power tool...
 
how'd you cut it again?
 
I was chiseling out a slot for a door hinge... No gloves, thoughtlessly cutting towards myself... Chisel slipped... 6 stitches in right thumb. :-/
 
dang, ouch
 
12:05 AM
Safety measures? What safety measures.
It was stupid.
 
lol
ya, you shouldn't do that
 
Paid for it with 6 stiches...
 
and a er bill
 
Luckily I missed the tendon or I would have had a vascular surgeon's bill in there...
 
ouch, ya
 
12:07 AM
So I have this funny combo of feeling dumb and lucky. :-)
 
gonna be ok for your shoot this weekend?
 
I think so. I'm just going to have to use my left hand to adjust the back wheel on my camera. It'll be a little awkward, but doable.
Practiced with a client today and it seemed to go OK.
Not ideal... But OK.
 
so i messed with a canon DSLR for the first time this weekend
very different ergo
 
Yeah?
Totally.
My Canon cameras always feel a little more 'spread out' than my Nikon ones...
To me, anyway.
 
guy on the 18" Dob needed to go check his camera and asked if I would rather man the Dob or check the camera - told him I'd prolly do better on the camera...thinking "well, it can't be that different on a Canon"
umm I was wrong
 
12:10 AM
Oh, I'll bet! So were you an instant Canon convert? ;-)
 
lol no
 
Even though I own equipment for both platforms, it always takes me a few hours to switch back and forth mentally when I use one platform for a while...
 
he was doing timelapse and I couldn't figure out how to view the exif on the shot it just took between shtos
needed to know what shutter speed Av mode was picking and I couldn't find out without me feeling like I was going to screw it up
if i'd have had 10 minutes without it trying to take a picture every 10 seconds, i'd prolly have gotten a better feel
 
Oh yeah, once you get past the basic 'adjust the shutter speed/f-stop' Canon and Nikon handle things very differently...
 
ya
@JayLancePhotography you own nikon stuff?
 
12:26 AM
I don't own as much Nikon stuff as Canon stuff, but yes, I have a small Nikon kit that I pull out when m students are Nikon folk...
 
@JayLancePhotography ah, ic
even your small kit is probably more than mine lol
 
It is. Sorry. :-)
 
hahaha, i'm not. Your a pro in the biz for a long time, its definitely no surprise
 
It's probably overkill (I own the D3X) because I don't really shoot client work on my Nikon gear... But there's something to be said for pulling out the top of the line when I'm asking people to pay me to teach them photography...
 
@JayLancePhotography wtf! D3x is your 'small kit'...you're so full of crap lol
probably have a nikon 85mm 1.4 and a 70-200 2.8 too
 
12:30 AM
What can I say... Full-frame sensors are my weakness. :-)
Those are the two lenses I currently own for it, yep.
 
@JayLancePhotography ya, i figured. you suck
lol
 
Like I said... Sorry. :-)
 
i'll trade!
you're not sorry :P
 
Gee... Let me think about that...
 
lol
 
12:32 AM
I'm a little sorry. ;-)
 
keep thinking, at least then I have hope
 
Tell you what, I'll let you know about a trade when your check arrives here, OK?
 
i'm not sorry, a D3x and those two sweet lenses are more than I need. It'd be wasted on me
of course, its wasted in your closet :P
@JayLancePhotography sweet
 
It kinda is. Nice thing is that it was a sweet business write-off in 2009. :-)
 
(btw, thats pretty funny that I managed to guess your two lenses lol)
 
12:34 AM
Portrait photographer standbys...
Good guess.
:-)
 
indeed
 
Of course I prefer my Canon 85 f/1.2...
:-)
'Cause f/1.2 is like 400% better than f/1.4...
 
well, we already know you have flawed logic if a D3x is sitting wasted somewhere :P
of course, you can really see that extra .2
 
Not only can I see it, I totally use it!
Not.
 
ya, i remember you saying that you don't use it much
the 70-200mm is your baby
 
12:36 AM
It is.
The Canon 85 f/1.2 is a notoriously slow AF.
Makes it tough to use for anything but studio work.
 
ya
sure
@JayLancePhotography you got any tips to shoot a group portrait of about 120 people?
 
Stand far enough back? :-)
 
lol, thanks
 
120 people is all about crowd management. It'll be an easy picture to take, but it'll be tough to corral everyone...
 
ya, thats what i'm worried about
 
12:39 AM
If you can, pick a shady spot so you don't have to deal with more than one kind of light.
Get a few bossy relatives to 'assist' in crowd control.
 
i think it'll be indoor on a stage
 
That makes it easier.
Risers?
 
doubtful
 
Or steps of some kind?
 
probably not...the stage is a side effect of where they're having it, but I don't think they'll have actual use of eq like that
 
12:40 AM
It'll be tough to get all the faces in if the back rows aren't above the front rows.
Maybe you could do sitting on the floor, kneeling, sitting on chairs, standing?
 
@rfusca: Remember to wear BRIGHT RED!
 
Yellow's the crappy color of choice, right?
Obviously not chosen by @rfusca
:-)
 
exactly
I'm saying he should wear bright red
be unique
 
@jrista turned out that just my particular branch is wearing yellow - every branch is wearing a different bright, primary color t-shirt
 
Eeeeven better. :-)
 
12:42 AM
ah, bummer
maybe you should wear brown ;)
it still in the "yellow" axis ;)
 
lol ya
the widest thing I've got in my kit lens, so hopefully it will do
 
18mm?
 
ya
 
you probably don't want to go much beyond that
when you do, the scene starts distorting pretty bad
 
well, no choice anyway ;)
 
12:45 AM
trying to stuff all that information into a tiny little rectangle comes at a cost
 
@jrista ya
 
you can always get farther away too\
which is sometimes better than wider angle
you might try 24mm at greater distance
 
we'll just have to see how it works out
@jrista did you see what @Jay 's "small Nikon kit" is?!
 
?
 
a D3x, a 85mm f/1.4 and a 70-200 2.8 for Nikon - just for when he teaches!
 
12:52 AM
nice
 
its like having a Rolls Royce sitting in the garage, under a tarp
 
Its getting a little boring waiting for Canon to release something revolutionary
@rfusca lol, yeah
 
@jrista esp with everybody else doing cool stuff
 
yeah
Canon missed a step somewhere somehow
they were really competitive up until about 2-3 years ago
in the last couple years, they have fallen behind everyone
not really be a lot
 
part of me wonders if they've been on a the verge of release a few times and somebody announced something beyond what they had planned and they're in scramble mode
 
12:54 AM
but its the little things here and there that are starting to mount
I don't think so
 
i'd really be interested to see Pentax and Nikon growth this year. The D7000 and K-5 were game changers for the APS-C market
 
they put too much effort into releasing a lot of cameras, and not enough effort into releasing quality and features
they cranked out the 500D, 550D, 600D, 60D, 1000D, 1100D
the only piece of really worthy gear they released in that time was the 7D
which, granted, is a really nice camera
it brought some new things to the table for Canon
like the advanced AF and LCD viewfinder
but, that stuff wasn't really revolutionary
 
most of the reviews I saw of the 7D were that AF was superb and some stuff like that, but that the IQ wasn't as good as it should have been
 
yeah
thats kind of tough though, because everyone compares pro level cameras against the K-5, which is kind of an aberration when it comes to IQ
if you take that one camera out of the picture
the differences between the 7D and pro level offerings from pretty much anyone else are within the margin of error
 
D7000 probably too
 
1:01 AM
maybe...
the D7000 is still a ways behind the K-5
remember that scale on DxOMark is logarithmic
 
ya, i know
 
interesting...blue ND filter
never really thought of using colored ND filters for creative effect
 
pretty sure the D7000 is better than the 7D
 
how do they rate IQ on that site?
 
its the DXO mark
 
1:04 AM
oh
heh, you mean the 8" print based IQ?
the IQ rating so far removed from the sensor its beyond humorous?
 
fine, ignore the IQ rating
even though it pretty much agrees with every review of the two cameras
 
someone needs to come up with a better, more objective IQ rating system
its desperately needed
and DxO's is a joke
 
indeed
 
I wonder how many other reviews base their IQ on DxO
it might be because of DR
looks like the D7000 has nearly two stops on the 7D
 
and high ISO rating
weather sealed, two slots
 
1:09 AM
well
were talking IQ
other features aside, as we know Canon is behind in that respect
 
@jrista fine
but i still submit that IQ wise, the D7000 is a better camera
 
I don't deny that the D7000 is a better camera overall
I just dispute that there is a 20% difference in IQ
hmm, the 7D is weather sealed
 
more like weather resistant
 
same thing
you can easily shoot with the 7D in the rain
I see guys out in cherry creek shooting with it in the rain all the time
 
there's quite a few anecdotes out there that dispute that
 
1:14 AM
Canon doesn't even call the 1D series weather "sealed"
they are all just "weather resistant" as far as canon is concerned
just to different degrees
 
sealed is sealed, there are no degrees. Resistant has degrees, so they're not the same thing
 
I dunno
sounds like mincing words
Is there any visual comparison of the D7000's "sealing" vs. the 7D's "resistance"?
I've seen diagrams of canon camera's seals
but I can't find any of the D7000
 
if i get a hole in a package in some food from the store, it's no longer sealed, but depending on the hole it may be resistant to certain contaminants
 
right...but I don't see any visual demonstration of how the D7000 is actually "sealed" compared to the 7D
 
@jrista that i don't know. I'm not saying that the D7000 is absolutely better in that regard. But there is most certainly a difference between sealed and resistant
 
1:20 AM
the 7D has seals all over the place
as far as I can tell from diagrams, it is sealed, but a seal between two joints can come in varying degrees as well
I'd like to know exactly what Nikon means by sealed
and have a way to compare that to other cameras
 
its a bit of a moot point though really. Neither have a history of covering any water damage
 
heh, true
 
anecdotally, Pentax really does mean sealed on its cameras and will cover damage caused by water
people will literally wash their cameras
 
interesting..
I have a hard time accepting anything at face value
Canon is pretty up front about the level of the seals on every joint in their cameras
so I at least know what they mean by weather sealing
I can't find a scrap of visual evidence of what, in actuality, is sealed on any Nikon camera
so all there seems to be is anecdotes about how Nikon's are "fully" sealed...but who really knows what that means
 
sure
 
1:32 AM
Nikon themselves use the term "weather resistant", same as Canon: Magnesium alloy employed for the body, and superior weather-resistant and anti-dust capabilities
 
interesting then that snapsort rates them differently - just wrong
 
yeah
well, its still a better camera...two stops of additional DR is nothing to sneeze at for sure
 
ya
 
found a semi-decent diagram of nikons seals
they don't seem to seal everything....maybe a little more of the major joints are fully sealed than on the 7D
 
even the K-r has more DR than the 7D
 
1:39 AM
yeah, 11.8 stops is not really that much
 
.7 of a stop is not insignificant, but its just interesting that it competes with a camera in a few iq related areas of a camera 3x its price
 
yeah
thats why I really hope Canon does indeed shake things up a bit with their next round of professional grade cameras
the 5D II doesn't have any more in the way of weather sealing than the 7D
and I hope it gets an improvement there as well
 
ya
 
otherwise they just aren't competing
which is kind of annoying for everyone who owns canon gear
 
ya
its really going to be interesting to see how pentax follows up the K-5 next gen
its depressing to see them make such a great design with the k-5 and then do that whole small sensor mirrorless camera
 
1:44 AM
at least they are progressing forward overall, though
 
@jrista ya
 
 
2 hours later…
3:43 AM
hello..
after long time...
 
4:15 AM
@rfusca Interestingly, whether I keep my 'Rolls Royce in the garage' most of the time or not, I believe that it was a good investment which has paid for itself since I got it in 2009... I've landed several clients by virtue of being able to 'shoot Nikon,' and have a number of paying students that are taking classes with me because of my Nikon gear.
2
 
4:47 AM
@JayLancePhotography oh,i'm just ribbing ya. I totally understand and can appreciate why you have it.
@garikapati hello
 
5:24 AM
not the weather sealing, but there's the magnesium
@rfusca I disagree
I don't think sealed means totally sealed. At some point if you drop it in the ocean, water pressure is going to push through those seals.
 
@EvanKrall of course you can break a seal
 
not even break
I suppose if you glued/fused the pieces together, then you'd have to break that sort of seal
but I get the impression that cameras' seals are rubber gaskets.
 
- seal : to block (an entrance, area, etc.) *completely* so as to prevent escape or entrance

- resist: to make a stand or *make efforts* in opposition
its simply not the same thing
but i really don't want to argue, its not a battle anybody is going to win
its a pointless semantics argument
 
exactly, I think there aren't any truly "sealed" cameras by your definition.
except maybe disposable underwater cameras
 
5:40 AM
@EvanKrall i disagree, but frankly, i don't care
 
I need to figure out someone for this week's Strobist BC3 assignment
 
i've been in too many pointless debates today, i gotta draw the line somewhere lol
@EvanKrall interesting, hadn't seen that yet
reading over that wow, i'm gonna do this
 
my problem is I don't really know much of my community besides people at work
 
hmm, i have some ideas
i live in a smaller community, so its eaiser
 
 
2 hours later…
7:54 AM
@rfusca: The Nikon's are no more or less "sealed" than any other camera. All it boils down to is which major joints between body parts and plastic panels have an o-ring in them. Not every joint does in any camera, only the major ones. In the case of the D7000, they don't seal the mount for the LCD, which is a pretty major one. In the case of the Canon 7D, they don't seal the shutter button or main dial, which are also fairly major.
in either case, it doesn't really change the ultimate outcome. Any professional level camera from pretty much any manufacturer can handle rain and snow, so long as they aren't tossed around in the mud or submerged in water
to handle the latter, you need the creme of the crop...1D or D3 series cameras
 
 
7 hours later…
2:31 PM
@jrista if you think i'm arguing that the nikons are more sealed, you're not understanding what I'm saying.
that said, not sealing the shutton button and dial on the 7D sounds like a major wtf, moreso than the LCD screen
 
 
2 hours later…
4:10 PM
well I sent my note off to subject for my strobist assignment
 
4:22 PM
@rfusca Interesting. I got a kick out of their "short code" idea.
 
@DLambert ya lol
don't go asking the mayor ;)
 
4:35 PM
@rfusca no, its not even an argument with you
 
@jrista ah, ok :)
 
Its just that this whole "nikon is sealed, others aren't" is just a brand loyalty thing on the internet in general...when the only two models that actually seal everything are the Canon 1D and Nikon D3 series.
 
ya
 
@rfusca Why I oughta....
;-)
 
@JayLancePhotography :P
 
4:38 PM
I dug around trying to find information on Nikons...all I could really find was that Nikon themselves say "weather resistant", and that they don't really have any detailed diagrams that clearly show every joint and differentiate which are o-ring sealed and which aren't. Canon, at the very least, does clearly explain for all their sealed cameras how sealed they are, and where they are not fully sealed.
 
@jrista ya, based on the pictures I've seen and stories I've read. I'd only really trust the sealing on those or a penatx pro series
 
yeah
thats part of what you get when you get the top of the line
"full" sealing
 
lol
 
Nice. I love all the birds standing at the edge at the end.
Got a new pair of 2TB drives waiting for me at home tonight. Need to migrate mirrored 1TB drives to the new pair, then I free up the 1TB drives for backups. The fun never ends.
 
5:24 PM
i wonder if I can bribe my UPS driver to move me up in his route
i'm generally pretty ok with the 'compare this and this and make the decision for me'...but this guy already linked the exact comparison
0
Q: Olympus XZ-1 or Lumix LX5?

blezI wonder which one of the two cameras should I get. Here is one comparison. I've seen good photos on flickr using both cameras, so I'm not sure. People say that the Lumix's aperture is slower than the Olympus.

 
5:52 PM
@rfusca Tried to give some specific ways to improve the question...
Do we have a CW for how to ask an "x vs. y" question? Seems like we've covered that, but it might not be boiled down into one place.
 
@DLambert ya, i have a little less patience with him since he's not a SE newbie and I don't think the answers are likely to contribute too terribly much to the wealth of the site given that he's already really answered it in his question
 
@rfusca re: not a SE newbie - I'm seeing 99 rep -- that's not exactly grizzled. Did I miss something? Rep on another site?
 
@DLambert he shows up with 101, that means he's been on other SE sites
 
SE kind of gives the benefit of the doubt to new members who are already members on other SE sites. So they get 101 rep to give them more permissions so they can contribute more than a brand new member.
 
100 points from passing rowland
 
6:05 PM
jrista has added rfusca to the list of this room's owners.
 
I made you an owner of the room, rfusca
just in case you ever need to deal with anything while the mods are away
since you always seem to be here anyway ;)
 
@jrista lol...ummm thanks
 
you never know
A-Cube is a bit annoying, but not really a problem
 
@jrista lol ya, he said hi @ you yesterday and I was like..hmmm ya, no chance there
 
but he might be a herald of more people coming to the chat room, and some may be far more unruly
@rfusca lol, yeah...I just ignored it
 
6:08 PM
we've seen a slight increase in chat traffic I think
 
yeah
 
Is there some new menu I should have?
 
I may always be logged in here (just to make sure the room doesn't get frozen), but I am not always around to manage things
on the room menu
you should now have a control access option
and maybe some additional abilities
you might need to reload the chat to refresh that
although...
 
hmmm, don't see it
 
I don't even seem to be able to prevent access...only give
 
6:10 PM
oh, i see it
gotcha
 
k
its right above the user icon list
 
yup
 
6:29 PM
Horse.... water. Sigh.
 
well putting a new motherboard, processor, and ram in worked lol
 
Jack up the radiator cap & drive a new car under it.
 
7:10 PM
damn shoulda made sure i got a mobo to unlock the cores, oh well
 
7:44 PM
@rfusca: how is the new mpc?
 
@jrista it'd be better if windows wasn't making me reinstall
thsi mobo doesn't have onboard video, so its a video card upgrade as well
@jrista photo.stackexchange.com/questions/13569/… this guy kinda pissed me off "Opinion noted" and all
 
could anybody please explain to me why it is I am watching America's Got Talent?
phew, i found the remote
 
8:41 PM
well apparently he took it poorly that I suggested he should do more than link drop
@jrista - you'll note I was very nice in my initial suggestion with him. Tried very hard to be 'welcoming' and have used that near exact wording before without getting the responses.
 
I think your use of "piss poor" is what gave him the wrong idea
he comes from SO
and the culture over at SO is quite a bit different
and the reason were small is not the aura of our community, its simply that we really don't fit that well within the bounds of StackExchange....and were competing with long-time, established resources for photography that much stronger presence on the internet
 
@jrista oh, i know that was going to do it, but i still stand by it. Its a crappy habit and needs to be clearly not acceptable.
 
yeah
 
Transformers 3 is astonishingly bad
 
@ElendilTheTall <Insert movie here> #3 is astonishingly bad.
 
8:54 PM
Mission Impossible 3 was good :D
Return of the Jedi was good
 
@ElendilTheTall Return of the Jedi doesn't have 3 in its name
 
anyway, while the film was astonishingly bad, Rosie Huntington-Whitely is astonishingly hot
so it balanced out
 
@ElendilTheTall lol
wow....apparently storing acid that may fume a lil' next to a stack of CDs is REALLY BAD
i now have a stack of CDs with clear plastic and labels lol
 
who stores acid anywhere anyway?
 
@ElendilTheTall eh?
its in a better container now, but I didn't realize the damage it had done
 
9:04 PM
I have never owned or used acid in my life
other than at school in chemistry
and I don't think anyone I've ever known has either
 
muratic acid + hydrogen peroxide + copper = Copper Chloride in Aqueous Hydrochloric Acid Solution and is useful for etching circuit boards
do you own vinegar?
or lemon juice?
:P
 
You know what I mean
 
people with pools have pool acid to clean it (muratic acid)
1
Q: What should the scope & purpose of the Photo.SE Blog be?

Craig WalkerSo, by and large it seems like the Photo.SE blog is a popular idea. According to Jeff's blog post, the next step is: Define the scope and purpose of the blog. Is the blog about the site? Is it about the site’s topic? Is it about the industry around the topic? Keep in mind the audience of your...

@ElendilTheTall some form of acid around the house isn't that unusual. One strong enough to have the fumes do some damage is though
 
@rfusca maybe not for mad scientists hunched over their latest project ;)
 
@ElendilTheTall Lots of common household cleaning products are acidic... Sure, most people don't have "Alien Facehugger Strength" acid lying around, but most everyone has some sort of acid in their house...
 
9:15 PM
@ElendilTheTall i prefer evil genius thank you
 
You read my mind re. the blog rfusca
+1 internets for you
 
@ElendilTheTall :)
@JayLancePhotography thats crazy, my bottle actually says "Alien Facehugger Strength" on it!
 
@rfusca Sweet! Can you buy that in a 50 gallon drum? I have some enemi... err... stuff I want to dispose of. :-)
 
@JayLancePhotography I'm not sure if they sell it in that small of quantities.
:P
 
9:35 PM
Lol.
 
!@#!@$!@$#!%!@#!@#!!!!! BSOD
 
10:33 PM
D'oh.
 
11:02 PM
@ElendilTheTall no more megan fox??
@rfusca: I think I'm going to get this for my mpc repair:
 

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