@EnderLook Online or in person? If online I'd tend to prefer smaller numbers; in-person I don't think it really matters. And in both cases it has nothing to do with covering bases in a party or tackling challenges, it's about people having fun while playing vs. feeling like they're always waiting around.

@MikeQ @Shalvenay @KorvinStarmast @trogdor I'm crashing hard after a full day of grading exams--I don't think I'm going to make it tonight. Sorry.

(One more to get through, but my eyes are already crosswise and the headache's been going for an hour already....)

@nitsua60 @MikeQ @Shalvenay @trogdor Arrgghh. :( Sad face is sad. :(

@EnderLook That violates a D&D 5e design principle. You can try anything ( but you may not succeed.) Strongly recommend against that one You can't use Skill Checks unless you are proficient on them... but tastes will differ from table to table.

In my view, that attempt at a house rule is a move toward roll playing versus role playing, but maybe that's a bit too hard of an assessment.

@KorvinStarmast That said, in conversation JC's told me that the only three things he won't fiddle with in his own house rules are granting more than 1 bonus action, allowing multiple concentration, or expanding attunement slots. Those are the three things he thinks super-break the game.

@nitsua60 Interesting to hear that; IMO, the DM is missing the point of how ability checks are built into this edition, and is being pointlessly penal. It also screws over the Help Action/working together thing.

Where we sit informs what we see.

(This current kid's exam isn't making the headache any better. On the current question--dealing in formal logic--he's come to the conclusion that Miss Scarlet did it in the kitchen with a candlestick at midnight. Which is exactly wrong on all four counts. Impressively wrong.)

@nitsua60 Heh, Clue. Great game, and the most recent event of that for me was playing with my wife and my parents last month in Virginia.

We both know that it was Salty, with a rapier at dawn, in the swamp. :)

@KorvinStarmast Does make me wonder if it's just a pacing-thing. I don't go as far as saying you can't do something you're not proficient in, but you may have noticed me often, when we enter a scenario, hear someone say "I'm going to check all the drawers for info on shipments" and respond with "okay, that'll take a good number of minutes. While you're doing that what sort of thing would you be doing, Alice? Bob? Charlie?"

the new errata are giving me a headache ...

@nitsua60 IMO that's the way to keep play moving. technique, not RAW

I try managing table-time not with restrictions on what part of a charsheet someone may engage, but just by making the spotlight explicitly rotate like a lighthouse.

@nitsua60 Bingo. The less often we refer to a character sheet, the better the play is IMe

IME

(Again, that's all if the DM's motivated by 'keepin' it moving')

I thought it was velociraptors, from the flank, at the last second, with pack tactics =)

(They murdered that thing!)

@nitsua60 That to. It was an amazing synchronicity for Rrauj, nature cleric, to have that complication arise at the right time.

If that was a Trex Complication, party wipe I am thinking.

"Quantity has a quality all its own." Joseph Stalin was right on that one ....

@KorvinStarmast the reliance on rules and balance for spotlight control is one of D&D's biggest bugbears

@Shalvenay Not sure I understand that point. Elaborate?

@KorvinStarmast D&D relies heavily on inter-character balance within the party for spotlight control, which has baleful impacts on the rest of the game

@Shalvenay I am guessing that 4e informs that point of view?

@KorvinStarmast it does not, actually

My experience is that spotlight control is a matter of DM technique

@KorvinStarmast yeah -- not all DMs are good about actively managing the spotlight though

@Shalvenay Hmm, is initiative a problem in this regard?

@KorvinStarmast initiative is actually only a minor contributor

@Shalvenay I am trying to figure out the "rest of the game negative impacts" and coming up blank.

@KorvinStarmast people thinking other people are hogging the spotlight, while the other player is simply trying to RP their char, and so on and so forth

@Shalvenay Hmm, not sure that is a D&D unique problem, and I am not sure what game engine can account for people's feelings ... have an example of one that does?

@KorvinStarmast generally, giving the table more control over the spotlight gives the table better chances to fix that

I will say that the DMG could use more illustrative language in describing that issue, though. And it needs to be early in the book ...

@Shalvenay Ah, I think see what you are saying ...

@KorvinStarmast so you're going to have a far easier time managing the spotlight in say Fate because the system is designed to work with you on that, instead of sometimes getting in your way

@Shalvenay Well, if I ever get that chance to play in a BESW fate game with ben, I might see that more clearly.

Watching the "professional actors play FATE" video left me a little cold.

I'd rather experience it with real people.

@KorvinStarmast yeah, it's a lot easier to see when you're playing the game

@Shalvenay I am having big sad face with nits' message up there a bit. Was looking forward to tonight's session. Not sure if you are interested in Mike's Gestalt idea, but I did get to mess around with a character for that during the trip to Utah this week.

@KorvinStarmast ah, what is his gestalt idea?

@Shalvenay We had some discussion in general chat about a gestalt game, so ben, goodguy5, and I are making level 4 gestalt characters for 5e. The idea is for a whacky one shot ... he wants to DM. ( think his PF group is having trouble getting together ...)

He'll let us know when he's ready. Not sure when, but probably pretty soon.

@KorvinStarmast hrm, "gestalt" as in "two classes leveling in parallel off a single XP pool?"

@Shalvenay sort of. It's a "level 4, two classes, with all abilities at level 4," but IIRC on pool of HP.

One feat, One ASI.

One background. .

standard array

@KorvinStarmast right. makes sense. will have to run a homebrew race by Mike for that I think, cause Volo's forgot about gnolls :P

@Shalvenay I went with shadow monk/trickery cleric. Not sure what Ben is doing.

@KorvinStarmast thinking life or light cleric/sun soul monk? give replicating my old 1e dual-class gnoll monk/priest a shot, maybe?

@Shalvenay Gnolls as PC race are to me the odd man out in 5e since they went with the "spawn of a evil god" thing in the MM.

@Shalvenay Life/sun souls, or light/sun soul sounds cool.

@KorvinStarmast yeah :P I'd have liked to seen them go into further detail for Volo's, "not all gnolls" :P

afk, momma wants help with christmas decor.

@nitsua60 ah too bad then hope you feel better soon

Just as well for me today, I was a little busy until just now

@nitsua60 Online and ok. I always think about it like something that must be won in the most optime way, I can't still handle that some people instead of looking for the most optimal method they look for the more roleplaying... I'll take a time to get used.

@KorvinStarmast Ok, I'll have to think about how to handle that with the DM. Every time I talk about him I regret more of choosing him (We had two options, and we choose him because he "had more experience and a premium account", but dynamic lights and a DM who is supposed to have more experience aren't worthly so much)

Yeah everyone has a different set of priorities involved in hobbies such as tabletop RPGs

And sometimes they even change

I still have trouble with that myself

I've done on myself a "pathological" rpg test and I've found I am a MinMaxer, a Tactician and a bit of PowerGamer

Yeah I figured it was something like that

Do you dislike having to role-play at all or is it more just liking interaction with the mechanics of the game holds more interest?

For me there is a shifting balance between the two things depending on my mood and energy level

@trogdor I find really weird talking on 1st person or chatting with an NPC. I prefer to avoid that thing or instead to talk just say something like "I inform to the NPC about X" or "I move my cleric here" instead of telling it. Also, I like a lot the game mechanic, role-play is just a necessary evil that I must stand to play it

Maybe if I get more experience I may get used

It takes a lot of energy and confidence to be in character, and I don't usually have both of those things on any given day

I have played too little but I only talked on two times in character. The first time, I asked about why there was a mist on the forest... because the DM talked on 1st person also and I was kind of lost. The second time, today, a rogue was trying to get all the reward from the corpses and I said: "Or you split up in equal parts or we fight", and when the DM say we should talk I said: "I already talked, I gave him the option to split the money or fight for it, and I am the tank, I won't loose"

It helps a little that I don't have games on work days though

@trogdor True. Social skills aren't exactly one of my virtues.

Same

I've had to learn just to do the automatic things some people can do without thinking

It's tiring sometimes though

But I am proud to have learned what I have

@EnderLook The more I hear about this DM, the more I think you and the DM are trying to play different games

I hope someday also gain that ability. Luckily this DM use very few times 1st grammar person on NPC so it's like we are less obligated to do the same.

@MikeQ Me too, I think he is trying to play D&D 3.5 or Pathfinder with us, which are his favorites games

@trogdor Do you play online or offline (in person)?

@Shalvenay Instead of a homebrew race, it would probably be simpler to pick an existing option from PHB/Volos and change the name

@MikeQ hrm. what would be suitable to refluff to gnolls, you think?

maaaaaybe lizardfolk from Volo's?

There's also a section on "Monstrous Adventurers"

From my understanding, D&D gnolls are hyena-ish people and tend to have good Str/Con. So maybe pick a race with a bonus to one (or both) of those ability scores.

@MikeQ nods

@EnderLook a bit of a mix of the two things actually

@MikeQ would it help if I sent you a link to what I was thinking of proposing?

I play in person in a group here, but we have several people join in from online too

And currently I'm also in a purely online game

@Shalvenay Sure. I usually try to avoid random online homebrew, but I'm not really expecting any sort of balance for this one shot anyway :P

@MikeQ sent the link via Discord

@Shalvenay (shrug) It looks fair enough. If you want to use that race that's ok.

@MikeQ okiedokie. how are you doing char sheets for this game?

Probably thru roll20. I should get that set up.

@MikeQ @Shalvenay huzzah, ShaltheGnoll will join us. Let us celebrate ... uh, helping Mrs Starmast with the christmas tree last night got me into a festive mood