Discussion on question by Alice: How to force a German university to take action against possible fraud?

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05:12

Q: How to force a German university to take action against possible fraud?

This case concerns a university in south part of Germany. There is a lady who has a full-time job in this university (she is PI of a group not a professor) and has brought several millions Euro to the university. Now the problem is this: this lady has left Germany years ago and is living and work...

VitaminE

I wouldn't jump to conclusion. For example, it is possible that this person is retained to meet funding conditions. Further, the person could be funded externally or that the person is still involved as a 'consultant' but paid through your university. There are many other reasons. Lastly, I don't think this question belongs in this forum.

user559374

@VitaminE I don't think the points you raised apply to Germany. I'm looking for advice from people familiar with German universities administration and how they investigate the matter.

gnasher729

I’d assume that the university knows exactly what is happening, so no investigation is needed. And they are fine with the situation. Many people are working from home, and there’s no reason why “home” shouldn’t be in a different country. Brazil is only three time zones away from Germany, so that would be no big deal.

user559374

@gnasher729 So can one be paid from 9 to 5 in Brazil and at the same time in Germany?!

user559374

@gnasher729 Also, she has a group in university. Her PhD students usually realize that she is not here after they got hired by the university.

gnasher729

05:12

Alice, some people can do two jobs. I can’t. You can also hire helpers cheaply in Brazil with a German salary. I can’t see exactly what your problem is. Is she not doing her job? Are you affected by it?

user559374

@gnasher729 dear, there is a labor law, you cannot do two full time jobs in Germany. As I said, I'm looking advice from people familiar with German universities. Also, in no country, you can be paid two jobs at the same time with or without labor law.

lighthouse keeper

If the issue is with a professor who is working two full-time jobs, that's indeed a legitimate issue, but the accusation of corruption is unclear - rather than corruption, the concern here is with a possible violation of labor law. You might want to edit your question accordingly.

user559374

@lighthousekeeper Violation of labor law is certain. But we are concerned more about third party funds at university; it's not clear why no one cares. As the answer suggests, I think, we need to bring it to media attention.

user559374

@lighthousekeeper Whistleblower was threaned if he pursues this matter, besides the fact that nothing will happen, they will ruin his career. Some people say that it's not in the interest of university to investigate this as it will cause huge damage to its reputation.

Jochen Glueck

@Alice: How can you even know that the person in question is paid (and even paid for a full-time job) by the German university? Contracts or salaries of individual employees are not public information in Germany.

user559374

05:12

@JochenGlueck In fact this was the beginning how we discovered that. She accidentally emailed one of her students some personal documents regarding her tax in Germany. She even pays tax as someone who is living in Germany!

user559374

@JochenGlueck almost all of her projects invlove other PIs in different parts of Germany and some in Europe. Some people say, the situation is so complicated that university doesn't want to get invloved and they are waiting her contracts normally end.

TimRias

It is also not clear to me whether German labor laws would have anything to say about taking a second full time job outside of Germany, since this would be outside the jurisdiction of German law. At worst this would a contract violation of the contact this person has with the German university. If they don’t object…

user559374

@TimRias In Germany, employer is not university, is the state. It's not clear what happens to tax, etc. Also the main residence is not Germany anymore. So in fact job in Brazil is the first job!

TimRias

Due to the lack of tax treaty between Germany and Brazil, it is likely this person’s German income would be taxed as if she is a German (tax) resident. (While possibly being taxed again in Brazil)

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