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8:05 AM
@doppelgreener Apparently, whoever did the trailer for the remake isn't playing the game correctly.
They.... use the shield..... :P
 
8:22 AM
lol
I've never played or watched Demon's Souls
(I have watched somone play DS1-3 and Bloodborne and Sekiro but not Demon's Souls)
 
I thought shields only became obsolete in Bloodborne?
I used a shield for half of my DS3 playthrough. Is Demon Souls significantly different on the shield front?
 
I know they are a total joke in Bloodborne
in the other games they seem at least viable
there are people who say you shouldn't use them in any of the games but I feel like that's pretty reductionist since it seems to work for plenty of people
for all I know Demon's Souls is more similar to Bloodborne on that front, I dunno
but that's just it I guess, I have no actual idea
 
The shield in Sekiro seems to have a purpose, but my approaches to combat didn't let me figure it out much.
 
I think in Sekiro it's only supposed to be used for Mikiri Counter?
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica That's a joke between me and @doppelgreener. About a video that claimed that if you turtle too much, you are playing the game wrong :P Note: that doesn't mean that the video was totally wrong... just a little too much into "zealoth mode".
 
8:27 AM
but I don't see why you wouldn't use it at all
@Derpy is that the Hbommerguy one?
 
@trogdor You don't need a shield for Mikiri.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica fair enough I have no idea then
XD
 
IIRC the shield was supposed to be used against shamans.
 
ooh
for all those ridiculous projectiles
that makes a lot of sense
those guys looked annoying
 
8:29 AM
yeah
I mean i usually like his takes on things, but claiming you should never use sheilds ever is a little much
 
Again, I don't mean he is completely wrong but I found it funny that the trailer uses the shield quite a bit.
 
I mean, I think he's like, partially right, maybe don't use a shield every run? (assuming you are playing through multiple times)
 
Anyway, I shouldn't be ranting about that.
Let's rant about the things that need to be ranted on :P
They had to do a single thing in the remake.
did they do that? Nope, of course.
 
if I were to play just one of the Souls games it would probably be Bloodborne
because I just like the aesthetic of it and the gameplay emphasizing agression to get some health back
but I also think people who want to use shields should just go ahead and use them
XD
I don't think it's automatically a superior form of play to not use them
 
9:02 AM
@Derpy I don't get it. What's in the picture?
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica You played Demon Soul?
Remember the Nexus?
 
@Derpy Dark Souls 3, a bit of Surge, and all of Sekiro, but no Demon.
 
ok, then you don't know.
Let me explain.
 
Also Remnant. Remnant is great despite a few flaws.
And Fallen Order, which is good but probably not worth the money it costs.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica This is the Nexus central area.
You can see some stairs going in an arch, right?
 
9:06 AM
@Derpy Yeah. And some circles on the ground, but I don't understand the meaning.
 
on those stairs are placed 5(+1) stones, called Archstones - those are the gates that teleport you to the actual areas.
You played Dark Soul 3, so that should seem oddly familiar
the Firelink Temple has basically the same layout.
 
I remember the firelink shrine, yes.
 
but there is a difference.
The Firelink shrine has 5 thrones, two on the sides and one on top.
In Demon Soul you have two Archstones on both sides and TWO on top.
That is six archstones in total.
But... Dark Soul development was getting late, so they cut some content. So, in the final game you have 5 Archstones for 5 areas
 
Are you trying to hint that there should be a fifth (or sixth) pattern/seal/circle in that picture?
 
The game lore was already made, and the Intro speaks of a 6 Archstone.
The Archstone of Giants.
Since they didn't finish that part of the game....
 
9:14 AM
From the picture I have a hard time even telling what I am looking at.
 
They broke the Archstone, with little explanation given in game (other that it was broken for some reason)
So, in the PS3 version of the game you have 5 working Archstones for five actual levels, and a crumbled Archstone thant can't be used where the sixth level was originally planned.
all what remains of that area is in-game unused data that datamines were able to find
The image above, is from the trailer of the Ps5 remake.
If you didn't play the original, probably it is a little too dark to actually see but since I know the area quite well, I can easily recognize the shape of theArchstone of the Tower Queen on the left of my freehand circle.
And in the circle, you can see the shape of the sixth Archstone I mentioned.
STILL BROKEN
So, unless YOU have to fix it during the actual game, so far all points to "nope, they didn't add back the cut content in this remake"
 
Since I have already played the original I'm not really that interested in a remake that just improves the graphics so I was actually hoping that they would take the opportunity to... you know... finish the game they originally planned.
Also, but that is just my theory... Demon Soul has actually TWO ending.
A bad ending and a good one.
Everything is tied to a single choice right at the end of the game.
You can roleplay a saint and still choose the bad ending, and you can kill every good NPC and still "save the world".
There are some clues from cut content that probably that was a last minute thing they had to do.
mostly, from a removed NPC called "Tell All"
>
This is Boletaria, a warped world
shaped by the trade in souls.
Do you have your soul still? Then beware:
soul-starved men and terrible Demons will hunt
you down for it.
You seem to have plenty about you.

Surely you realize that you are a sacrifice;
you are meant to die here.
Are you in need of a way out?
You must begin by seeking knowledge.

I am Tell All. And I can tell you… anything.
Very well. But this is a dangerous place to
navigate on one's own.

Wise warrior, do you seek further knowledge?
it is intriguing that it mentions
> Come again, eternal prisoner.
If you wish to save yourself.
and
> Surely you realize that you are a sacrifice;
Eternal prisoner would mean the dialogue takes places AFTER the intro, when you get trapped in the usual "can't die" gimmik of every Soul game.
 
9:31 AM
Given that Soulslike lore is obscure, and I'm only familiar with bits of Dark, I don't know the significance of those bits.
 
he calls you "sacrifice".
Won't spoil the plot for you, but that is often theorized to imply that the original plot wasn't going to be as linear as in the finished product.
Some theorize that to actually get the good ending you had to follow some hidden quest chain tied to this NPC
but... we will never know.
That was why I hoped that the remake would add some substantial changes for those who already played the original.
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Some of the older ads for the remake mentioned a new "Fractured mode" being added to the game, with no further explanations.
newer ones don't even mention it.
 
@Derpy Ah, backpedalling.
Unfortunate when that happens.
 
The game originally was planned to have a "True Death" mechanic. Only referenced in the game files now, it is unclear what it was about.
> "True Death

A hardcore mode is described in the text dump. It is unknown if it was intended as an alternate mode, or if the main game would have functioned this way. Essentially, dying in soul form would cause something like a perma-death, but instead of deleting your character and starting the game over entirely, the character would automatically re-spawn with all or certain progress lost. The way it is worded, it is not clear if everything would have been lost, or if obtained gear would remain but simply got de-leveled.
Don't know if the "Fractured Mode" was referring to that, but latest info for the remake don't even mention it so....
 
 
1 hour later…
10:46 AM
@Derpy BOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[edna mode voice] NO SHIELD
For real though also I'm not sure his position is "never, ever use a shield." I mean if you're walking around near archers, just equipping a shield is going to let you nearly ignore them, rather than dodging back and forth and possibly falling off a ledge.
Heck, Blight Town has people blowing darts where you can trivially block them with a shield but if you want to get crazy and start dodging you are probably falling to your death.
And lots of early-game enemies—by the time you're halfway through—are trivialised with a shield.
I think there's times to use a shield, and times to dodge, but his criticism is that using just the shield leads you down the wrong path. Getting used to dodging generates more fun.
@trogdor it'ss an excellent way to handle the gameplay
The story's great, too. I finally beat it for the first time the other day.
 
ooh nice
 
@doppelgreener yeah ok that seems like probably a fair representation of his stance
or more fair than my half remembering of what he said XD
 
11:04 AM
notably bloodborne, a game designed around letting you dodge but not block, has no areas whatsoever where you're being assaulted with projectiles while also walking a perilous ledge or on narrow platforms where a single dodge will likely get you killed
there's lots of areas you've got people in different spots attacking you with projectiles, but you're usually in an open space with lots of room to move as that's happening
an all-dodge no-shield philosophy would get you killed all on its own and having a miserable time in dark souls, so i don't think it's possible he's advocating that.
even a friend of mine who can and also has played Dark Souls with no shield, a 2h weapon, and frequently no armor at all because you don't need it if you're not gonna get hit, will equip a shield in multiple places.
 
seems fair enough yeah
and especially for those projectiles
I've watched a few playthroughs of DS 1 and 3 (I've had trouble actually watching 2 for some reason) and they cheap ass projectile attacks man
those look extremely annoying
especially since some of them give you like, toxic
which ruthlessly drains hp
 
Hey, could've been worse. Could've been Curse. ^_^
 
yeah
I actually watched a randomizer run of DS one
Seethe and Pricilla replaced the gargoyles
he got cursed and was cursed for most of the run after that
 
@trogdor they're okay! it's kind of part of dark souls's gameplay loop: it pits you against an unfair world which means you feel great overcoming it. Figuring out where the blowdarts are coming from, learning how to traverse the terrain even despite them being in the vicinity, then later finding how to reach those dudes and take them out, is very satisfying at each step.
 
because the curse remove items were randomized and he killed an NPC who had them because,... well I don't know why XD
 
11:15 AM
@trogdor oh my goodness
 
it was great though
well also horrible
you can guess that,... he died a lot
Seethe especially really was the problem
he was just,... too big
 
i can imagine
 
it became a running gag too
Take your Daughter to Work day
 
hahaha
 
plus Pricilla showed up like, 6 other times
replacing bosses
it was kinda ridiculous
oh and gargoyles
they replaced like 5 bosses
he would go into a hard boss room, gargoyle
but that rooftop murdered him
it was like the price he paid for all the rest of his run being easy I guess
well relatively easy
 
11:24 AM
huh
i would've thought the randomiser would have shuffled things around, so you still only fight each boss once
 
@trogdor Wait, back then Curse didn't just kill you outright, no save, regardless of HP?
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica it killed him
 
Because this is how I remember the cursing mechanics from DS3 and/or Sekiro.
 
and then it left him with half hp forever
 
Ah, so it also did that.
 
11:27 AM
well not forever but for a long time before he could fix it
which I assume would have been easier to do if he wasn't doing a randomizer
@doppelgreener no he was talking a bit about how he didn't pick one that did that
he like, was doing a one that really randomized it and let you fight the same boss a lot
and I guess he got lucky until Bring your Daughter to Work day
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica also it killed him multiple times but he was already cursed by then, but yeah curse did kill him
still, he did eventually beat that fight and the rest of the game was easy-ish bosses
but he did have to do like, say 75% of them with half hp
XD
it was certainly quite a show
 
12:07 PM
huh, i totally forgot curse does that
and yeah, you'd need a purging stone to get over that
 
yeah
those were it
he couldn't get any for a long time
he was even going to every NPC that sells anything
 
oh noooooooooooooooo
 
I think he eventually found one in a random chest
 
yay!!
 
but he had to kill a bunch of bosses to get there
and the best part was, Lord of Cinder was replaced with Gargoyle XD
 
12:09 PM
as one does
omg
perfec
perfect, even
 
so he has this horrible hard time after Take your Daughter to work day and then just
destroys this unfortunate gargoyle and wins
 
gargoyle: surprise, i'm going to ruin your day!
that guy: yeah i've heard this one before
gargoyle: what?
that guy: yeah the last four times i beat you
gargoyle: the last four times you what?
 
12:37 PM
I forget the name of the boss, but Gargoyle replaced the guy who sits in the long hallway and shoots at you with magic?
that was hilarious
because that boss seems annoying
gargoyle also replaced,.. first boss one of those demons
oh and I think gargoyle replaced Manus
XD
something easy replaced Manus
he really did get really lucky except for Take Your Daughter to Work day
 
12:51 PM
@trogdor gwyndolin?
 
@doppelgreener and then... they realize that the game has three endings.
@doppelgreener oh, how you would love the Maneaters boss in Demon's Soul....
 
@Derpy i know about those three endings and i love those as well
they are part of what makes the game's lore kind of amazing
the game's full of cosmic horror but the endings are a wonderful embodiment of it
 
@trogdor the time you are happy to see a gargoyle, when you aren't on a bridge in Latria....
 
1:12 PM
@doppelgreener I think that's it
There are like, 3 people you can kill who have Gy in the start of their name right?
I keep getting confused about that regardless of whether that is accurate XD
 
@trogdor from what I understood that randomizer made a lot more
GYrgoyle 1, GYrgoyle 2, GYrgoyle 3....
 
Lol
I deserved that I guess
 
@trogdor Gwyndolyn, Gwynevere, and Gwyn the Lord of Cinder himself.
 
Yes
I hecka get those names mixed all the way around
 
Yeah that's fair
 
1:18 PM
I think so yeah
 
I did too for a while
 
If only I had that excuse all the time
I also routinely forget names I don't use or see a lot
 
i used to do that a lot, and put in some training to improve my memory of names
but also this always makes me think of that scene in Doctor Who where the Doctor walks away from someone, and they ask him to wait a moment, and he turns around and says "who are you?", they explain they've been here the whole time, and the Doctor says "oh, sorry, I'd already deleted you" "you deleted me!?"
 
If I read a name it usually sticks around better
Lol
It's when I talk to someone maybe once a year at most that I just cannot keep their name in my head
 
Just make thing up as you go, it's easier
For example...
> Return to the unforgiving terrain of the Dark Souls series as Red Knight and take down a Lord of Cinder! The Age of Fire is upon us and the Red Knight is our only hope!
 
1:23 PM
People do not like that
Also when I tell the truth people also don't like that
 
@trogdor People LOVE that. Why would otherwise FUNKO put that description on the Red Knight Funko Pop box?
 
When I say "yes I know you I remember your face" that doesn't go down well"
My face memory is very good my name memory is horrible
People get in the database for good just, unfortunately one piece of information they find very important is missing
 
@doppelgreener doesn't this seem like an accurate description for Dark Soul 3 plot?
3 mins ago, by Derpy
> Return to the unforgiving terrain of the Dark Souls series as Red Knight and take down a Lord of Cinder! The Age of Fire is upon us and the Red Knight is our only hope!
 
@trogdor i find it's pretty helpful for me to be partway into the conversation—basically see how long I can get without really needing their name—but around the time I want to or need to know their name, I'll ask "sorry, I've forgotten your name, I'm not great with names. Could you tell me it again?"
 
1:26 PM
I should try that
 
\> unforgiving terrain
Is that like the Lift, the Final Boss of Undercity?
 
If we've done that before I can also say "I know I've forgotten before, I might forget again but at least for now I'll remember it."
 
Yeah
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica you can either have the whole message quoted or none of it. :'(
 
It's hard to ask that
 
1:27 PM
I know I can't quote and not-quote in the same message. How do I escape a quote-starter?
Normally \ would be an escape character but apparently it got printed for some reason . . .
 
can't
your choices in a multiline message are: no markdown processing or fancy markup at all, the same but in a quote box, the same but in a code indent. No markdown processing means no escaped characters.
 
'No processing at all' would've been okay but apparently I fail at this too. -_-
 
silently waiting until @doppel realizes the heresy written in that description
 
@Derpy i don't actually know what this is from, but if it's from a funko pop i'm satisfied leaving it at "well it's funko pop so it's automatically bad"
 
@doppelgreener It is the description on the box of the Red Knight funko pop figure.
100% loyal to the game lore.
 
1:30 PM
it sounds like it was written by someone who'd only ever heard of dark souls second hand, which i can imagine being actually the case
 
@doppelgreener nope.... to be fair there is a much weirder explanation.
Originally that armor was going to be an armor set you could get, and the character with that armor had another design.
They changed that in the final release, forgot to tell Funko about the change.
So, they made a figure based on an armor set that you once could equip.
 
That makes sense
I was wondering where the Red Knight bit came from
But I mean, the rest is also just ... slightly off?
Even keeping the Red Knight bit, I could make five substitutions and it would actually hit home for a Dark Souls summary: “Return to the unforgiving [world] of the Dark Souls series as [the] Red Knight, and take down [the] Lord of Cinder! The Age of [Darkness] is upon us and [you] are our only hope!"
 
@doppelgreener I can live with your explanation: it's Funko. The bane of action figures.
 
But without those, they are just slightly off in tiny but very impactful ways
 
there is a single Funko pop that I ever considered buying, and with a little thinking you may guess it.
 
1:40 PM
Is it the Solaire funko pop?
 
not Dark soul related
 
Oh. Well, I've exhausted the overlap in the Venn diagram of things I know about you and Funko pops, lol
 
 
Okay that's kind of amazing, I see why you'd consider that one
Better than Solaire too; their Solaire is like, the worst expression of Solaire I've seen in any figurine, which is kind of the problem with them
 
@doppelgreener the only time where a Funko Pop actually looked like the character they were meant to be in the first place
 
1:44 PM
Right!
 
there are other variants
 
funko pop's pros are that all the models are super generic, and its cons are that all the models are super generic but also all have creepy beady eyes
 
but the chainsaw one is probably the more appropiate
 
the chainsaw one is tripping me up because funko pop eyes are always black, but the eye part there is meant to be the white part, but they didn't outline it to help us see it that way
 
@doppelgreener to be fair, that is plainly inaccurate to the official design too.
 
1:52 PM
Now that you mention it, yeah
 
Rage mode white stripes are also squared, compared to the ones regular Tsuko has.
still.... you know....
If Hasbro actually claimed this was a Fluttershy mini figure....
By comparison the Aggretsuko Funko is the most show accurate thing in existence.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:44 PM
@trogdor they kept the hand gesture.
DOH!
 
@Derpy The illustrations seem so much better than the photographs of the real thing. While figurines of highly stylised images (such as WarCraft) seem OK, ones from something with previews like the ones you've shown earlier seem like a disappointment.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica to be fair, the real figures do look nice. I'm just not a fan of the specific design they chose for this one.
Clearly based on the first movie before the character was "reformed" and trying to hard to fit the "bad girl" archetype.
But you know, either go full first movie and give here a menacing, plotting evil look
or please drop that "Rock&Roll, Heavy Metal" attempt, doesn't really fit.
also the actual way she stands, is a little weird if you ask.
 
4:01 PM
@Derpy Fictional character models always seem to have some of the weirdest postures and often animations too. At some point I gave up.
 
true and for good reason
realism is not the goal of animation, and in fact would be under-utilising the medium's strengths
and in fact often leads you to bad results
 
Well the weirdest can be good, bad, both, or neutral. When it comes to postures, it seems to often be in a bad way that either makes me ask 'so why like this' and that just strains WSoD for no good payoff.
 
sure, there can be weird stuff. There's comics I can't read because the visual style isn't something I appreciate.
 
@doppelgreener was talking about the figure, see the second image. It looks almost like she is bending backwards
don't know if it is the camera angle or what.
 
Like there's Morticia Addams whose posture is odd because it emphasises her choice to sacrifice mobility for a peculiar æsthetic and hints that maybe she doesn't even have humanoid legs (there seems to be an allusion that the dress-tentacles are or hide real tentacles). And then there's stuff like City of Heroes postures which don't serve such a purpose (e.g. they don't seem to give a feeling of heroism/villainy), and just make me ask why.
Then there's Deadpool doing the 'knee landing' which is an odd posture too, but it has a clear purpose, and he mocks that purpose in the process.
 
4:12 PM
@Derpy looks like her center of balance is fine; her feet are also back. She has her hips forward.
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica heroes gotta strike poses y'know
(i'm not actually trying to defend CoH there, I don't know what it's like lol)
 
Yeah but not all poses were made equal. ^_^
@doppelgreener Keeping either ends of feet pointed in a sharp angle inward, or knees slightly bent inward pointing at a similar angle, are the ones that come to mind.
It's been a while and the thing is closed by now AFAIK.
 
@doppelgreener deserved answer:
 
Anyway, I do like the overall visual design of the (humanoid) character, especially the hair, but the posture is meh. @Derpy
And the shift from preview image to photo is a downgrade IMHO, like there's a detail loss or something.
 
4:32 PM
@doppelgreener But since she isn't supposed to be Boa Hancock from One Piece...
 
I mean, she isn't doing that
 
@doppelgreener hopefully
 
She's plainly not
 
 
2 hours later…
6:49 PM
@doppelgreener I was just joking, I can see that she is not trying to strike Boa's pose
That said, she isn't exactly standing straight up either....
 
@Derpy wow
 
@trogdor Yep, not a fan of this specific design to be fair. As I said, they clearly went for the "Rock&Roll girl" look (they even say "She looks like a rockstar" in the presentation video, so...)
Problem is that if you wanted to display them all together, now you get the six friend and the mean girl instead of the seven friends.
And she doesn't really match the EG1 still-mean counterpart either.
Maybe they should also release the Concert Fluttershy from a EG official youtube short.
(but to be far, that one lost all her credibility about.. two second later)
 
7:15 PM
@Derpy Maybe my usual difficulties of parsing normie emotional cues are showing up, but to me that image looks like she's not having fun.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica More like "will they think I am weird?"
as I said, every hope of being actually credible in that clothes were lost soon after
 
I think it looks pretty great.
 
@doppelgreener If I recall correctly, the concert was some band called "Skull & Bones" or something similar, and she is trying hard to blend in.
All while being as shy, insecure and cute as usual.
 
7:31 PM
Oh, sorry, I mean the statuette, but Fluttershy looks fine too.
 
8:07 PM
@doppelgreener As I said, the thing that bugs me is that she doesn't fit with the others.
I don't know why, but the other ones seem more... playful? Can't say why.
Probably just because she brings memory of the pre-reform version, and the gesture with the hand still looks odd on a MLP character.
Would have preferred if they at least they had the ILY gesture instead of the horn one.
and I think that I talked about that in the past with @trogdor, will try and search for the links later if someone was interested
Sorry but now I really have to go :P
 
9:18 PM
@Derpy I mean, she is the most reserved character?
or do you mean Sunset Shimmer? in which case nevermind
 
10:09 PM
also this was where we talked about it before
 
10:53 PM
hello all
 
11:06 PM
hello
 

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