but I still think the game would be a little better if it just worked that way

@BESW Actually, on that subject, a Lizardman could make a pretty great ninja for you, since you're not planning on using the ninja's casting anyway.

Especially since (relatively speaking) the ninja will be one of your "tanks".

I have had people die of poison when I camped with it, and of course the ambushed while camping scenario

they would have had to do a lot of things differently to make camping a little less of a pain

@trogdor Ambushed while camping is your life now.

but I don't feel like there are too few battles in the game to begin with, soo I would not be mad if that were not a thing

@trogdor Having a Bard helps a lot.

@Miniman oh I am aware

@Miniman what do they do?

@trogdor Faster recovery while camping.

ooh

that is definitely nice

@Miniman [squint]

to be fair, I have enough of a grasp on how camping works, and also have the spell "Shadow Hounds" in this party

@trogdor Yeah, sort of - it's good when you get interrupted, because you've got a bit more back for the fight. But if you've got a spot good enough for one uninterrupted rest, it's probably good enough for two.

So, like Shadow Hound, it only helps in the worse-case scenario.

Shadow Hound is the only reason I'm on the fence about Samurai vs Valk for the ranged party.

so I don't feel like it's a huge problem

@Miniman still, something that always has my back in that scenario? = good thing

@trogdor Oh, absolutely. The worse-case scenario is by far the most common scenario.

@Miniman [squint] Do you know how many levels behind that puts me for Eagle Eye?

@Miniman even if it were not,... it's the worst case scenario

(Four. The answer is four.)

@BESW Ouch.

if I have enough stacked for me in the worst case scenario, I am pretty set XD

@trogdor Well, it's not the worst case. The worst-case scenario is when you can't even try to rest.

Actually, it puts me back four levels for Reflexion and Snake Speed too.

@Miniman yeah, true enough

snake speed?

what does that one do?

@BESW Ok, probably not worth it. At that point you'd be losing more tankiness than you gained.

It'd make for an easier early-game and not much else.

@trogdor Improved initiative and the potential for extra attacks.

@BESW Well, extra potential for extra attacks.

ah, nice

that is a really sweet one

though to be fair, they all seem at least pretty neat

Iron Will is a little underwhelming.

I do like that this game has max ability scores, but that when you max em you get a new skill to put points in

@Miniman It's the "Congratulations, you know how to level a Priest so we're going to make your Priest less squishy as a reward" cap skill.

@Miniman it's not the best, but my healer not being CCed is still pretty good

Oh, it's still good. Just not as good as the others.

I agree

what does vit give you?

Iron Skin.

Which does what you'd expect.

ah, damage reduction right?

Yep, it's pretty nice.

cool

I can see why dwarf fighter now

"you can't killlll me hahahahahaha"

Dwarf Fighters are kinda Crocodile Dundee.

I mean yeah, you probably can kill them but it won't be easy

"That's not a knife. This is a knife."

@BESW So, in this metaphor Lizardmen Fighters are the crocodiles? (I've never seen Crocodile Dundee.)

@Miniman I think that might be a little too on the nose XD

@Miniman There's a scene where Dundee is in... New York? LA? Some stereotypical American city, and someone tries to mug him with a switchblade.

He laughs and pulls out an unusually large bowie knife.

yeah, not only to say his is bigger, but to imply he probably doesn't mind being stabbed as much as you do

at least that is what I would get out of a confrontation like that

Yeah. It's very much a "You're adorable" moment.

Okay... Valk for better ranged stat support and Cheating Death, or Samurai for slice-and-dicing and mage buffs?

Those mage buffs are awfully tempting.

As I understand it, you currently have no-one for mage buffs?

Right. [tank], Ninja, Gadgeteer, Ranger, Priest, Alchemist.

apparently, if he is relying on a Sam for it

I do like the idea of having a Valk in the front so she can laugh at reach enemies and be better than they are

Hmmm...does Enchanted Blade affect ranged attacks?

Good question.

but I think my next run has to have a lizardman fighter, and that might mean no valk in front cause they would have a little anti synergy in that regard

plus, like you guys said, I could just give the fighter a polearm of some kind

I mean, I'm tempted to say Sam just for spell coverage.

@trogdor Valks are flank tanks with no equal.

Mostly because they can attack enemies in melee range of the front anyway.

Or behind, which is occasionally amazingly helpful.

I can't find anything on Enchanted Blade, and the spell's wording is non-specific.

@BESW I suspect it does, and the name is just gloss.

But I don't know, and it's difficult to test.

The other big mage buff is Missile Screen, which in some ways is more important for you than a normal party.

Yeah.

Samurai it is, then.

[recruits Vi]

@BESW Suggestion for making it a bit more effective: Ditch dual-wielding.

@Miniman Where do you suggest I put the extra points?

In your situation it's a straight-up waste of skill points.

@BESW ...Bow?

And spellcasting when you have it, of course.

(The Fairy Nuff will not be in this party.)

Heh. It's a sad thing, but dual-wielding isn't great to begin with.

@Miniman yeah, I am aware of all this

I just like the idea of my frontline fighter not caring if enemies have reach

plus it would mean enemies with reach would generally be too stupid to hit my middle people

@trogdor I get that. My first time through, I wasted 2 or 3 rounds before I realised that the King Crab wasn't actually in melee range.

@trogdor And that's definitely a nice perk.

@Miniman yeah, at least those crabs taught me something

@Miniman I wouldn't say that, it seems important for pretty much all parties

@trogdor It is, but many enemies have both a melee and a ranged option, and will use ranged unless you move into melee, then switch to melee.

@Miniman Now, there is one case where DW would make sense, and that's if two-fisting shuriken works.

BESW isn't really planning to move into melee in that situation, so Missile Shield looks a little better.

But I think that'd be rough to keep him from running out all the time.

@Miniman ok, that makes sense

@BESW Does the Ninja have access to the dual-wielding skill, though?

@Miniman Yes.

@BESW Hmmm, that's definitely worth a thought. I'm pretty sure you can DW throwing weapons.

I've seen some argument online over whether two-fisting shurikens means DW replaces Ranged Combat for the most relephant Academic skill.

@BESW Ideally, you'd raise both. And don't forget Critical!

I do wish Dual Wielding wasn't a bit weak

@trogdor It's good if you have procs you want to trigger.

Which is pretty much what the Ninja is all about.

@Miniman yeah, but it has nothing else going for it right?

@trogdor Well, once a character is good at it, I'm pretty sure it's strictly better than not dual-wielding.

by the way, I have started to see the rare INSTANTLY DEAD from Ryu smacking something

it's very satisfying

@trogdor That's a nice feeling.

@Miniman oh, I was led to believe it was just terrible

@trogdor Not exactly. It requires you to pump skill points into it, but once you're hitting with every attack, a penalty to hit isn't a huge drawback.

What makes it worse than it should be is that the only non-Samurai offhand weapons are daggers.

oh

I can see where that is an issue

So if you make your Rogue dual-wield, you either split points between sword and dagger, or you just go with daggers.

so Lords have horrid dps, and their only unique tanking mechanic is something a priest could be doing for them

And daggers are pretty crappy compared to swords, so at that point you're costing your main hand more than you're gaining.

This also shows why it's a lot better for Samurai.

@trogdor Oops, I forgot about that - there's an offhand mace or two. Maces are still not as good as swords, but much better than daggers.

ah

still, Lords,... don't seem to have much going for em

This is all from memory, experience, and forum threads, btw, so take everything with large grains of salt.

Valks have cheat death and polearms XD

@trogdor They'd look great if they didn't have Valks to compete with.

they probably would

but that is the problem

this is the same game they are both in

Ok, so, to be more precise (since I just found it in something I was reading anyway): At 100 dual-wielding, there are no penalties whatsoever from dual-wielding.

Until that point, you have to be content with extra chances to proc cool stuff (if you're a class with cool stuff) at the cost of reduced always-on stuff like damage.

For example, I recently saw a Samurai proc two Lightning Strikes in a row. He missed the target 12 consecutive times.

mk

so it is a skill to make doing a thing as cool as doing that thing should be with no drawbacks

fair enough

it just isn't something you do with a class not designed for it

The Lord spotlight has some pretty interesting stuff to say.

In particular, the ability to use any equipment that damages you without taking damage is something I wasn't aware of.

to be clear, I really like regenerating hp forever

but rezing on death is pretty much just better

even if it's only a chance to do it

@trogdor That about sums it up, yeah.

@BESW What's the rationale behind putting the ninja in the rear?

(Particularly given that it'll have the shortest range of the party.)

Ooh, point.

it actually must suck having to maybe have a back liner in a ranged party

not tooo much though

Well, once the ninja gets her Stealth up and Reflexion comes into play, she'll be decent off-tank material.

In an MC Hammer kind of way.

@BESW I was wondering about that, too.

Certainly more than the Ranger or the Gadgeteer.

Although ninja armor restrictions will kind of suck through the midgame.

@trogdor I haven't tried it, but it seems to me not having to worry too much about formation would be one of the big advantages of being a ranged party.

@Miniman well, you still have to worry about it to some degree, i imagine

not as much, I am sure

@Miniman This is another reason I think Faerie Ninja gets a lot of attention.

but stuff will still flank you, for sure

there are swarms that move fast like bats and wasps

If you're a Faerie or a Ninja but not both, your gear options are very limited. Because you're always on the lookout for gear you can use, observation bias calls to your attention a number of items which you could use if you were also the other thing.

early game, at least, it's still likely to be really tough

Oh yeah, early game is going to be all about trying to engage stuff in narrow corridors and running like a bat out of hell across the wide-open spaces.

@trogdor Early game, 6 lizardman fighters is the only way to go.

@Miniman yeah I know I know

I contemplate a party of that, but no healers in even the later early game, not to mention mid or late game, scares me

it would be difficult even with all the potions you ever need

which would be expensive in a party with no alchs

not that money in the game is a huge issue past a certain point

@trogdor That was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

I thought I had a lot, but to pay off the Rattkin for the thing they have is,... expensive as heck

@Miniman well, until I hit this particular wall, I had more than I ever needed for anything

@trogdor You can also kill them and take it.

@trogdor I meant the 6-liz-fighter thing.

and potions and scrolls and throwing items coming out of my ears without even buying any

@Miniman oh ok

XD

I do get that a party of that would at the very least be hard to play

besides, having one or two in one party would be enough to satisfy me

and even having two seems overboard when I can have valks on the flanks

BTW, lizardman valk is kinda OP if you're okay with them only casting a couple spells a day.

@BESW I do kinda like that my valks can support the priest with healing

but it is tempting to have lizard valk, I assure you

I usually have my valk cast bless while the priest does more important things on the first round and nobody's in melee yet.

But that kinda exhausts the valk on casting for a while.

@BESW I have been having Vi and Mctank alternate that XD

("More important things" usually being web or guardian angel.)

guardian angel is nice

"I can heal you before you take damage!"

or at the least anticipate covering a wound over without being punished if you don't get hit first

it's like being able to heal beyond max hp

I love it, basically XD

It's like being a Prot priest in WoW. [grin]

@BESW Or even if you're not :P

I do wish guardian angel didn't have a duration as well as a damage limit, though - it makes it a little weak early on.

@Magician So far as I've been able to tell, PokeGo uses Google Maps as a supplement to Ingress data. And they've got Pokemon lurking in veterans' cemeteries, Holocaust museums, and offices for the police and the FBI.

So no, not fearmongering and not assuming things without evidence. And even if PokemonGo were better vetting its locations and using only the data from their own previous games, it's still an excellent opportunity for opening conversations about topics like the nature of public spaces (see also parkour, yarnbombing, hostile architecture, etc) and the extremely divergent experience of safety, comfort, and suspicion experienced by different demographics in otherwise totally okay spaces.

@Miniman Would you put the ninja at the front?

Especially in early levels.

@BESW Probably not - if you didn't have the Samurai, definitely, but at early levels the armor available to the Samurai is just so much better than what anyone else can get.

In starting armor, the ninja's ridiculously better than anyone else.

But I expect that'll change fast.

@BESW Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

But the Tosei-Do (I think that's what it's called?) happens pretty quickly.

Ninja has AC 4 and 13 HP; next in line are Sam (AC 1, 15 HP) and Ranger (AC 2, 13 HP).

Also, consider that if you're not dual-wielding, your Samurai can use a shield.

And shields are awesome.

yey!

@BESW It might be worth save scumming a little to get one from the starting chest.

...Oh, I remember save-scumming starts.

Heh, just thought I'd mention it.

It's especially important for faerie ninjas, I think.

If I was going to do the solo faerie ninja, I think I'd make some other characters with good starting equipment and kill them off.

I'm sure the softshell crabs would be happy to oblige me in that area.

My preference was the five-faerie-ninja party (with one lizardman fighter to get you to Arnika alive).

Each one multiclassed into something else, too.

@.@

Given that the whole point is to make the most of the unique equipment available to the faerie ninja, that seems odd.

It was... challenging.

Well, I guess that's the other main point of it.

The point was to go first and often. Most fights you'd proc enough instant-kills that it'd be over before anyone else got a chance to move.

Hmmm, when you put it like that, a 6-Ranger party starts sounding really good.

Maximum range for both spotting and attacking, good instant kill chances...

And arrows are the only form of ammo that aren't stupidly limited.

"Our arrows will blot out the sun!"

Maybe 5 Rangers and a Bishop, I guess.

"Then we shall fight explode in the shade."

Is there a way to dispel enemy buffs?

Hmmm, I guess not. I was hoping the Psionic had something I didn't know about.

@Miniman I didn't have to resort to that XD

for that specific thing I mean

@Miniman Thought: Maybe forgo the Sam's melee meat grinder altogether and put points into Shield instead of Crit Strike?

(cries)

XD

Basically make him a buff-casting Fighter.

yeah

@BESW [takes notes on key to door relationships]

@doppelgreener Are you having Fun With Backlog?

@BESW star list

Ahah.

That's what it's for!

@BESW Makes sense to me - it's not like he's going to have too many chances to use it.

(And my poor, poor ninja is doing the dreaded "+2 in three stats" dance for abilities AND skills, but that's the nature of the ninja. She won't advance quickly but she'll be a powerhouse when she does.)

dancey dancey

I killed all the Rattkin, including the ones who would still talk to me after I killed all the others

I got the item for free though so worth it

and a quest complete too

just have to turn it in

the Don and Calzone were pretty dang hard to kill though

Don Calzone is probably the silliest mafioso name even.

it is, but that wasn't the Dons name

there was a Don and a Calzone

hmmm

can you don a calzone?

apparently you can don a calzone

lol

updated image, that one is even better

@eimyr I assume that calzoning a don would be an updated version of Titus Andronicus.

Mabel Pines is in North Carolina:

welp, I was surprised to find that there are literal patrols of like, six Rapax just chilling right under Trynton

I GTFOD before they could attack me cause I was just trying to turn a quest in

I don't need a 10 -15 minute fight with a whole squad of Rapax just to get that done thank you very much

@trogdor Scaling! [jazz hands]

hmm? as in they are showing up because I am a higher level?

I figured that might have something to do with it

@BESW I never take the ramp - I always go grab the Resurrection Powder and pay Burz a visit.

wow

That's a pretty favorable situation, though.

@BESW this is why I killed off patrols so much

@trogdor Nah, this means he can tank bats while all of his party members kill Gregor. Ranged party, remember?

also, I didn't realize they could come back, but I didn't want em showing up in the middle of a fight with a boss like that

@Miniman mine isn't though

Unfortunately, this was all ended by a round two critical botch on a cherry bomb.

@BESW Oof.

you have people throwing those just starting out?

Alchemists start with one, which I handed off to my ninja.

cause even later on, every time I tried to get Potion to throw stuff like that he hit the party

Still, maybe I should take the ramp - the way I approach Gregor means I almost invariably fight him along with the 9 roaches from the adjoining room.

@trogdor You really need good T&S before you start throwing those things around.

exactly

why are you using it in the monastary?

Because I have a ninja.

fair enough

And 16 low-hp enemies in range.

Potion is no ninja

is 100 T&S enough to never hit your own party ever?

or just enough to make it very unlikely?

Not sure.

I have no proof for this, but I'm pretty sure that if you're at 100 T&S and you hit your own party, the game hates you and you should uninstall before it takes drastic measures.

@Miniman I stomped him hard when I had the fight with him, but of course I also had a horrible time getting through the Arnika road

@trogdor Yeah, it's really tough not to overlevel in the Monastery.

Other than that, though, ranged party is pretty much a success so long as I remember to level up the ninja right.

@BESW Nice!

I mean, I'm not far, but I expected the monastery to be a LOT harder.

Turns out only giving one fig about party positioning simplifies things!

well, seems like the Monastary is easier than most of the rest of the game

so you still have time for things to go horribly wrong XD

Oh, aye.

(Generally I find the road to Arnika from the Monastery either totally unbeatable or a cakewalk, rarely anything between. Go figure.)