Not a bar, but plays one on TV - 2020-12-09

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8:06 AM

@trogdor depends on the game. Most don't give you that degree of control.

You would just be able to try to keep all the cats that randomly come to your city and try to get other species to move out.

As far as I know, the mobile game DOES offer full control - you choose the animals you want to be at the camp / house. But obviously the mobile game is a limited experience, not really matching the original console games. Furthermore, it is free + gatcha.

Pretty evil monetization scheme, with high prices both for the lootboxes AND the buyable items

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see here for some prices.

a pond - limited time item, so add FIMO in the mix - costing 280 tickets.

see above, that would be about... 12€?

12€ for a single pond.

Gets even worse with seasonal items.

I heard there is a giant Christmas tree on sale for 350 tickets. 18€

so, about 20€ for an item that you will want to use only during the holidays.

20€ you can buy a complete DLC for some games.

Yet, these are the prices you usually see in "free" mobile games.

Also, the "cookies" - the local lootbox. Cost 50 tickets - you get 45 for 2.29€ if you see the picture above - not enough, so you have to buy two packs or the 4.49 one....

A cookie gives you a random item in a set.

Cookies are limited time too, so here you have FOMO again (Fear Of Missing Out - ignore my typo above where I write FIMO)

and obviously items have different rarities, and you can get doubles.

Oddly enough, even if the alleged % are identical between common items, players do report constantly getting doubles for the "worst" items. Because every cookie has at least one item you couldn't care less about....

And did I mention that some clothes can't be worn by villagers so having them double is completely useless??? Happens rarely, but I think some cookies did have those too.

8:26 AM

oof

@trogdor This thread does some basic math.

reddit.com/r/ACPocketCamp/comments/91uwhi/…

Based on what some friends playing the game as free player told me, you can skip the part about buying help for the gardening monthly event since it is doable without help. That is, if you can login every 3-4 hours to catch the bugs and plant new seeds... That said, lately they report being able to finish the event with 1-2 days spare time.

The gyroids hunt event - also monthly, has at least two items that you can only buy with tickets. Usually the free ones aren't that great, the premium currently ones are far better....

For example, Halloween Hunt

Three premium currency items.

Notice also that it is double predatory in this case since you can get 2 parts of the mummy costume for free but the mask is premium currency only.

So, if you don't pay .... you can't get the whole set.

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you also get paid monthly subscription.

I especially hate them for the Happy Helper one.

For "just" 3€ month, you get to pick an animal that will always follow you (and provide some help with events and resource gathering) + some other minor benefits.

Notice that having an animal following you is a feature that has been requested in the series since the first game.

You can't do that on console, not even in the last game.

You get that on mobile... if you PAY.

8:43 AM

that's pretty bad yeah

6 hours later…

AncientSwordRage

2:42 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I don't think transhumanism has to be positive

@AncientSwordRage wrong room?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage There certainly is a certain . . . blowback? . . that seems to have a strong influence from other genres like cyberpunk in anotherwise transhumanist-ish 'space'.

For example, Eclipse Phase is a setting I long considered to be a derivative of THS, but it always felt like a step back into cyberpunk to me. And one day, the authors admitted that they always felt Shadowrun was a bigger influence on it than THS.

@Derpy A concern was raised that my comments would derail the other room's topic, so splitting it back here seems OK.

But normally, people pursue transhumanism IRL for its positivity: getting better integration of man and machine, getting healthier, getting abilities beyond those of a normal human, and so on. Looking at the kinds of discussions that go on, for example, on the transhumanist subreddit, the major concerns seem to be:
- largely philosophical questions about mind uploading;
- people wanting synthetic bodies or pieces of bodies in the hopes they'd be *better* than natural ones;
- people cheering for mind-machine interfaces;

A fictional treatment of the pursuit that is a net negative or zero-sum would seem like a strange thing to slap the same label on.

AncientSwordRage

in Here There Be Dragons, 32 mins ago, by doppelgreener

i cordially invite and request that this genre argument be had Not Here

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica IRL they can, but in cyberpunk I thought the defining factor was that technology is used to increase societal divides

If everyone gets it, or if only some do, it can still be transhumanist, right?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3:01 PM

@AncientSwordRage I'm not sure I understand comment/question.

AncientSwordRage

> a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting that tends to focus on a "combination of low-life and high tech"1 featuring advanced technological and scientific achievements, such as artificial intelligence and cybernetics, juxtaposed with a degree of breakdown or radical change in the social order.

yep, didn't realize you meant to move back here, but... fine for me, I just though you may have posted your message in the wrong browser tab without realizing.

AncientSwordRage

(from Wikipedia)

@Derpy so long as we're not harshing the rooms groove

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica my point is almost that transhumanism can be another axis in a cyberpunk setting

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Derpy We should derail into the role of transhumanism and presence or absence of cyberpunky elements in MLP, like the topic of alicornisation! ^_^

@AncientSwordRage I think the quoted description is accurate, but I also think it's not the whole of what sorts of features seem common among cyberpunky settings/stories. The zero-or-negative-sum principle I mentioned earlier seems to also be rather all-permeating. But the whole reason people pursue transhumanism is the hope of achieving a positive sum, often in the form of reducing the amount flaws of something (simple example: eye correction; provocatively retro-reaching example: vaccination).

AncientSwordRage

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yes and my point is things are more cyberpunk if for some people it's positive sum, but for others it's zero or negative.

It can still have the 'beyond human' aspext. That I associate most strongly with transhumanism

3:14 PM

in Sugarcube Corner, Jul 8 at 16:51, by Derpy

basically one of the characters becomes a sort of "divinity" - which in turns makes her basically immortal (or at least her life span is elf-like - thousands of years) and the others.... don't.

in Sugarcube Corner, Jul 8 at 16:59, by Derpy

basically, the "princess of friendship" has been struck with the "curse of immortality", the trope of "outliving everyone you know"

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage I suppose that's a way of looking at it, though such a situation where it's positive for A and negative for B is, in itself, a zero-or-negative-sum configuration on a 'meta' level.

@Derpy Apotheosis of the final season's ending?

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica nope, that is just Alicorn for you.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Derpy Oh, alicorns already get super-longevity?

since they turned Twily from this to this

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people have been theorizing that since the only two alicorns at the time lived at least a thousand year without any sign of aging (Celestia / Luna), they must be either "elf" or simply immortal.

So, Twilight would be too. And then you had people fighting over "artificial alicorns aren't real alicorns" and so on.

And a lot of sad fanficts about "surviving everyone else"

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Derpy There's a natural process to alicorns?

I thought it was a strictly artificial one.

3:21 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Celestia/Luna are implied to be born as alicorn in every original source material, either from Lauren herself or made with Lauren support.

There is even a book - Journal of the Two Sisters, that describes the event that happened before the show start

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Derpy Did the alicorn process start getting used for more ponies than Twily? I vaguely recall some comments on the society being concerned about the whole transformation getting out of hand, but I'm unsure if that's actually a thing, either in canon or in fics. Again, second-hand discussion exposure only.

AncientSwordRage

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I would say that if everything is net positive, thats more futurism

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AncientSwordRage

I don't associate transhumanism with positivity or negativity

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage Hmm. I hadn't thought of that category, probably because I never looked deeply into that term directly (or did a long time ago and forgot much about it).

@Derpy Terribly unroyal handwriting. ^_^ Or maybe resolution.

3:31 PM

the book was confirmed to be "Canon" by Amy Rogers from the original show cast. And in season 4 Twily becomes the "fourth" Alicorn (third would be Cadence, and I suspect Cadence was part of a cut subplot that multiple issues of the official comic hint to but is never introduced in the actual animated show).
Anyway, back in season 4 I would say that the plan was to make Twily alicorn for two reasons:
a) toys.
b) plot probably was to have her as a sort of spiritual successor to Celestia. I think that the original plan was to stop at the battle against Tirek, when she gets a castle and a title…

AncientSwordRage

@Derpy wait she becomes an alicorn?

And the show end... is actually Celestia and Luna retiring and Twily taking their place (or to be more explicit deciding they don't want to work anymore and telling Twily "Congratulation, You just won the Chocolate Factory!!!")

Now, the idea is obviously aimed at kids

"YAY TWILY PRINCESSSSSSSSS"!!!!!!

MORE TOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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^ relevant Phoebe wisdom.

yet, any older fan - or just "wiser" kid, will realize that is not so great.

For one, they just gave Twily the combined jobs of TWO rulers who based on precedent episodes already had crazy daily schedules (Celestia is exhausted at night and just sleeps the little she can, Luna is awake during night and sleeps in the day... now combine the two....)

AncientSwordRage

@Derpy 24 hour sleeping?

Or Twilight learns to rest half her brain at once

or the standard day is now 48 hours

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Second problem, the ending reinforce the until-now head canon of Twily becoming like regular alicorns.

The final scene is set years after the actual "finale"

Everyone else has wrinkles, she doesn't.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Derpy So that makes . . . only four canonical alicorns? Am I misremembering the alicorn process creating some sort of social divide or causing dilemmas? Or is it perhaps something fanfic-originating?

3:43 PM

So, I suppose in an hundred year she will be the happy princess of Dead Friends.

I guess she will just become pal with Discord.

AncientSwordRage

@Derpy I mean...who did Celestia or Luna make friends with before ascending?

So good when the show and most fictions so far had spread the trope that immortality is getting alone and then in the end the teacher does that to her pupil.

@AncientSwordRage Well, for one, Celestia basically lived a thousand year thinking Starswirl died (and in the meantime he was stuck in limbo) and ..... basically cursing herself for having to trap Luna on the moon? So I don't think she even considered making other friends until recently.

Miserable existence, here I come.

AncientSwordRage

wow sucky

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Shrug. By the time old age approaches, chances are most or all of the clique would drift apart for natural reasons. There's this meme that immortality would be horrible due to people important to the immortal dying but . . . people like that die anyway IRL, and so do friends drift apart, and reasonably stable personalities seem capable of handling that well enough.

It is implied that she started the "plan" to get Luna back only recently - and Twily was the second attempt. First one was Sunset Shimmer and that failed after she escaped thru a mirror to a different world (starting the Equestria Girl story)

AncientSwordRage

3:51 PM

@Derpy I feel slightly better that there's an in universe reason for that world

ONLY SLIGHTLY

@AncientSwordRage quite a mess too. The show plot is intertwined with the comic plot. But some comics are not canon.

AncientSwordRage

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

General rule was that every official material is canon until the show directly contradicts it.

But then you have things like the Journal.

AncientSwordRage

this is reaching Star Wars levels of canon hierarchy

The journal was originally cannon at the same level of the show by show authors own word, then the new staff made a plot that is incompatible with it.

Anyway, didn't mean to derail the topic.

AncientSwordRage

3:57 PM

what was the topic?

Cyberpunk Ponies?

weren't you just discussing Cyberpunk genre?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I went on some musings about the interaction, overlap, and opposition between cyberpunk, humanist, and transhumanist attitudes. And made a nudge towards MLP because this is a room with a MLP protectorate. ^_^

4:13 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica well, there is one character that has prosthetic

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vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Derpy But does the society view the prosthetic as fundamentally different from augmentations, metamorphoses, and/or modifications (including alicornisation)?

(As far as I have seen, the cyberpunky attitude is consistently wary at best and terrified at worst, of augmentations or radical metamorphoses.)

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica to be fair, I think it was just an attempt at sensibilization about disabilities.

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this is probably the only other character that "survived" the executive meddling.

Mind you, they managed to introduce some LGBT+ characters (for example, Scootaloo two aunts are a confirmed couple, both females) but apparently disabilities were considered an even thornier argument to be used in episodes.

Scootaloo is definitely intended to have physical disabilities - she can't fly - and is even bullied for that. But the show never goes into much details... I think that Lauren mentioned some cut elements that weren't used.

Probably the only explicit aknowledgment of Scoot disability (instead of being just a late learner) is a single line in an episode in one of the last seasons where she gets mad at Dash and yells at her for not accepting that she won't ever be able to follow her steps (in the episode Dash is trying to get her in the Woderbolts in a way, and that is a flying acrobatic squad)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

4:54 PM

@Derpy Well there's the usual throniness between 'how did your eutopia not solve issue X by now?!' vs. 'where are the people with issue X, are they gone?!' kind of thorniness. See the real-life thorniness about cochlear implants for an example, with people both in a 'for' and in an 'against' faction seeing the other of the factions as horrible.

5:07 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica never read the full thing, but here you have this comic page (fan made)

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vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

6:01 PM

@Derpy I asked around a bit, and have been pointed to this thing as the source of some side discussion from which I managed to remember the notion of more alicorns becoming a thing, and a major component of some dilemmas. Seems to also be a fic touching upon immortality blues.

6:42 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica recurring theme for many fan works, hard to avoid it. And I don't even read fiction.

in Sugarcube Corner, Jul 8 at 9:28, by Derpy

[PMV] Chant of Immortality

just one that comes to mind and at least is nice from a musical standpoint.

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Dec '209

Not a bar, but plays one on TV

I'm not a place to unwind after work, but I play one on TV.

movies ponies splorts tv

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