Mr Hen et al.

medica

16:01

@MrHen? Were you able to find it?

MrHen

Yo

I have to head out in 15 minutes, FYI.

Firstly, I think you and I more or less agree on the important stuff. The general commenting attitude on EL&U can be improved quite a bit :P

But here is the relevant context from the comments:

@MrHen - I'm afraid I disagree with you that that comments are proper behavior. I have not listed gentle queries (what did you find out when you looked this up?) or admonitions (We like to see your work first.) I agree with those, the people who post them, and have done so myself. What I've highlighted are rude, mocking, insensitive comments. That you feel they are proper behavior is evidence of a problem here. – medica 25 mins ago

@medica: Sorry, let me make myself more clear. The attitudes in the examples are bad, I agree. But the examples are attempting to accomplish the correct things…

medica

OK, why do you think that's snide?

MrHen

"That you feel they are proper behavior is evidence of a problem here."

This is the specific sentence.

medica

@MrHen - it's a sincere question, not a challenge.

MrHen

The problem is that you are making massive assumptions about my intent.

medica

16:05

but you stated your intent.

MrHen

So this quip doesn't do anything but stir up trouble.

medica

you said I was mistaken

you said the comments were proper

I disagreed

and I was straightforward in my disagreement and my statement.

I don't see the snark.

MrHen

But instead of looking at the apparent disagreement and trying to resolve the issue (perhaps through clarification) you essentially accused me of contributing to the problems on ELU

The issue is that it looks that way from my perspective because the sentence quoted is obviously incorrect.

medica

If you state the comments I qouted are proper, then you are part of the problem of unfriendliness on the site.

MrHen

@medica But it turns out that wasn't actually the issue. I misunderstood your intent (for whatever reason).

The reason I added the comment was explicitly because I wanted to clarify that I agreed that the attitudes are bad but the purpose of the comments were legitimate.

As in, they were trying to solve a problem. They just did it poorly.

medica

16:09

then remove your comment that it's correct behavior and reconsider your downvote (the latter, I don't care about).

MrHen

> you said the comments were proper

Do you understand what I meant by this?

> If you state the comments I qouted are proper, then you are part of the problem of unfriendliness on the site.

This is the issue.

medica

I understand now that questioning is proper

MrHen

This isn't actually true.

@medica Right, that's my point.

So, now would you say: "If you state the comments I qouted are proper, then you are part of the problem of unfriendliness on the site."

medica

but you must understand that you didn't state this originally

and that your comment exemplifies this

MrHen

@medica Right, which is why I followed up with a clarifying comment once I understood where the confusion was.

medica

16:12

as I was not the only person to differ with you.

MrHen

@medica Exemplifies what? What is "this"?

medica

then, shall we remove the exchange?

(what are you trying to get me to admit?)

MrHen

@medica I came here to talk about why I thought your comment felt snarky.

medica

and I do want to know

I thought it was direct.

MrHen

I don't actually care about the confusion/clarification; that's old news and happens all the time.

medica

16:13

that is not the same as snark.

MrHen

But it turned out to be misguided.

medica

why is it snarky?

snark does not mean incorrect

snark means obliquely insulting

MrHen

@medica Because I, reading the comment, know it is unfounded because I just realized where the confusion was. And now I have a choice: Try to resolve everything or take offensive to the completely misguided jab.

medica

there is nothing oblique in my comment

MrHen

The jab, from my perspective, is obviously incorrect and so it feels snarky.

medica

16:15

snark is not the same as a disagreement

or a comment calling you part of the problem

MrHen

You don't have nearly enough information about what was intended but you are filling in the gaps with assumptions and choose to lash out based on those assumptions.

@medica Look, I don't actually care about this. I have thick skin. I just found it ironic.

medica

ok, you're just escalating here, and we haven't agreed on the definition of snark.

then let's agree to disagree.

MrHen

Hm.

@medica You are correct on the definition of snark... I wasn't trying to disagree with that

medica

@MrHen - shall we? because I think you were insulted by my comment, and you don't want to just let it go

MrHen

My point is simply to highlight how a quip like that is the opposite of what that entire thread is trying to accomplish.

medica

16:18

whereas I was / am saying, there was nothing snarky about my comment

and that in itself is also a false accusation

MrHen

@medica No, I really wasn't insulted. I don't think you could effectively insult me. :/

medica

Then I think we should agree to disagree and depart.

MrHen

But I suppose I have no way to convince you of that. :P

@medica I guess we can but I don't see this as an agree/disagree issue. This is me trying to offer you feedback on your commenting style. You can do with it as you will.

medica

done.

MrHen

But allow me one last thought:

medica

16:21

is there anything else?

...

MrHen

(These are rhetorical.) How should I have more effectively offered this feedback? How should I point out a specific example of an issue that causes the atmosphere of unfriendliness? It is a difficult problem to solve. This was a failed attempt... but it failed in a way that makes people less likely to engage in this kind of feedback.

ELU likes to escalate things. It's hard to combat that.

And that final thought isn't so much directed at you; it is intended to be more generic.

medica

is there anything else? because I do think we are not really agreeing or solving anything

MrHen

But no, I wasn't offended. We can delete the chain if you think it would help.

@medica Sure.

medica

I have no investment one way or the other

MrHen

Mmk.

medica

16:25

I will let you go now. I hope our comment exchanges are more understanding in the future. I don't start out with the intent to misunderstand.

MrHen

@medica Same here.

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