last day (20 days later) » 

09:28
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Q: How can drone bees be born from unfertilized eggs?

Federico GentileI am learning about Drone bees and I keep reading that they are born from unfertilized eggs. Now here is my question: if eggs are gametes and therefore reproductive cells, how can they turn into a new living being without being fertilized? If that is possible, then it would mean that the gamete i...

Look up parthenogenesis. Also, a single cell is not a living being/bee. It is a cell. It can develop into a bee, but it is not a be in and of itself, no more than an acorn is an oak tree.
Thanks for this question; it is fascinating that parthenogenesis is present in such a large number of species! (TIL) When is a bee “born”? Is it when it emerges as an adult or when the cell the adult grows from is deposited, or something else? What is a bee vs. a gamete? In science, language is very important.
@MattDMo - I understand your comment, but that’s a fine line you’re treading. Do you know the exact stage wherein the aggregate of cells becomes a bee? Because I don’t, and wouldn’t mind knowing.
Thanks everybody for the comments. @MattDMo but genetically speaking there is no difference between the egg and the drone bee right? Thus it makes them the same living organism. I am no biologist so I probably miss a lot of things but it seems I cannot find an answer anywhere about this question.
Genetically speaking, only the chromosomes in each cell remain the same; the expression of that DNA changes dramatically from cell type to cell type, and an adult bee has many millions of cells. It’s like the difference between an embryonic stem cell and a cardiac muscle cell. So genetically speaking, there are vast differences at work. A cardiac muscle cell isn’t the same as a pluripotent embryonic cells. (The human body has about 37 trillion cells.)
@anongoodnurse Thanks for the comment but I see a substantial difference: a human embryonic stem cell is the result of the fertilization of the egg which is a gamete. In the case of the drone bee, the gamete seems to turn into a living creature on its own. In other words: a human being is originated at fertilization (2 non living beings result in one being) and the drone bee not (a non living being turns somehow into a living creature). If this equivalence is true, then the unfertilized gamete is already a drone bee by definition no?
09:28
@anongoodnurse If I could scientifically show where the line was, I could single-handedly end the abortion debate. Unfortunately, I don't know when a bee becomes a bee, or an acorn a tree, or a bunch of cells a living human being.
@MattDMo It is obvious that in the case of a human beings, gametes are not humans. A human is scientifically created at fertilization and as a matter of fact the abortion debate exists only for those who are not accepting a scientific fact. For bees this is quite surprising since everywhere I look for, it looks like the gamete "somehow" turns into a bee, thus making in it the same being. Thanks anyways for the comment. :)
@FedericoGentile, "A human is scientifically created at fertilization" is not a scientific statement despite the use of the word "scientifically". The gametes are human, the zygote is human; science says nothing about a human being created. It tells us there is an acrosome reaction, it tells of the fast and slow blocks of polyspermy, it tells of the cell membranes merging, it tells of the oocyte's second stage of meiosis, and on and on. Nowhere can it say "a human is created".
@MattDMo- hence the fine line. We’re on the same page.
@FedericoGentile - things are not true because you believe them to be true. I think your manipulation of words is a sign of a poor argument or poor comprehension, not sure which in this case, maybe both. We’re scientists here. You’re not likely to convince anyone with that argument.
@FedericoGentile if you really want to blow your mind there is several species of whiptail lizard in which ALL of them are born from unfertilized eggs, the whole species. parthenogenesis happens in lots of species from sharks to birds. fertilization is not special it is just moving genes around.
@mgkrebbs "The gametes are human, the zygote is human"... human what? human beings? Give me a break. Science says a lot of when a human is created you just don't accept it. As a matter of fact, in-vitro fertilization is done for which purpose? Creating non-living human beings? I know abortion topic is a really emotional matter but honestly i care about facts...
@anongoodnurse I believe in truth and science. The only line of conjunction between what I am now and when I happen to come to existence is the moment when my DNA was form. We are scientist here, we don't need to bend science to our morality.
09:28
@FedericoGentile I am both a scientist and a believer. I believe life begins at fertilization, but not that a fertilized egg is a human being. My morals have nothing to do with rational thinking. If anyone is bending here, it’s you.
@anongoodnurse wait a minute: if life begins at fertilization and the fertilization happens between the egg and sperm (2 gametes) then that (according to your definition) that is a life. Now, to be alive you must be a being. If both gametes come from the human specie than it must be a human being. What is not rational about that? A fertilized human egg creates a new genetic code which is the same until death. What is de difference between a full grown adult and the fertilized egg besides its shape? Genetically speaking they are the same thing.
 
5 hours later…
14:04
I never get an reply when I get to the this core questions. If I do, it is circular logic over and over.

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