The Sand Trap

Someone

00:03

haha caught you Vyxal-handed

lyxal

worth a try

adds roughly 5 bytes to the byte count

although really P flag + replace commas with pipes

which can be used in any language really

also, version 3 list printing solves it without modification :p

Someone

I kinda knew Vyxal would crush this, given the fact that two bytes literally does steps 1–2.5

wait, v3 doesn't do angle brackets?

bruhhh old versions are annoying

lyxal

it does squares :p

vyxal.github.io/#WyIiLCIiLCIiLCIxIDEwIFIiLCIiXQ==

gotta love not having auto-clipboard copy

Someone

I was using a python repl on replit

and got angle brackets

lyxal

angle brackets are version 2

version 2 being the parent major version

it's impossible to use v3 in a python repl

Someone

00:10

:(

alright, so it's a beta version ig

lyxal

because v3 isn't in python

it's in scala :p

Someone

YAY i can delete this lousy garbage python repl!

nukes

NOOO idk scala!

lyxal

uhh

there's a online site to try it on :P

vyxal.pythonanywhere.com

(v2)

Someone

right

i forgor the interpreters existed .-.

lyxal

@Someone also, any language that uses square brackets for lists can just replace commas with pipes

Someone

00:11

well, I can double-nuke it then

@lyxal fair point

but the main challenge is the multi-factor

non-golfing languages are going to have a bad time. UNDERTALE MUSIC

lyxal

since when is 7 a factor of 12?

@Someone golf or be golfed :p

Someone

how do you pronounce vyxal?

lyxal

vikesall

Someone

aaaa typo thanks

Seggan

@Someone and lyxal as licksal

lyxal

00:15

mfer spreading misinformation :p

Someone

fixed

Ginger

@Someone hey, whaddya have against that REPL?

Someone

it's a python problem

and a boilerplate problem

Ginger

that's my baby you're insulting there :p

(unless you're using the built-in one ig)

why do you dislike Python so much?

Someone

@lyxal spell it in the ipa

@Ginger it just looks wrong

Ginger

00:17

Someone

is that a trumpet or trombone?

Ginger

yes

Someone

is that a trumpet or is that a trombone?

Ginger

53 secs ago, by Ginger

yes

Someone

alright

logical warfare it is

aaaand I give up

is it a troumpetone?

lyxal

00:25

@Someone > 84 -> [[[]]|[]||[]] (if you fail this I will be very confused and somewhat sad :<)

Someone

yep

lyxal

> Recursively calculate the exponents in Barbrack, remembering that 0 is the empty string and 1 is []. So [2|1|0|1] => [[1]|[]||[]] => [[[]]|[]|[]].

You yourself have failed it

Someone

TYPO NOOOOO

Seggan

@Ginger because people use significant whitespace and dynamic typing to build giant codebases

Someone

i have done it

i have deleted ze typo

see, this is what I meant about being dunked on and deserving it

@lyxal well, it's time to be confused and sad to myself (me when english essay:)

@Ginger why specifically the built-in one?

Ginger

00:36

@Seggan I do agree with that last one

anything big should be statically typed

fucking mobile

Someone

here's how I saw it: you sent the first one, then the second one was normal, then the second one became a duplicate, then it was deleted, then another duplicate appeared, and finally it was edited back to normal.

c h a o s

@Ginger why do I always read that word as statistically?

Ginger

statistic typing is when the compiler uses a Markov chain to perform typechecks

Someone

@Ginger that exists!?

Ginger

hopefully not

Seggan

theres an 85% chance the Ginger node leads to the Furry node

Someone

00:45

uh…okay.

@Seggan I'm slightly worried about the 15%

lyxal

the other 15% leads to a chain of infinite recursion

Someone

which leads where?

and where does the Someone node go?

lyxal

Somewhere

Someone

and where does that go?

Ginger

Somebody (once told me)

Someone

00:48

that's the All_Star node. wrong way?

@Someone eh…I'd say if the Rydwolf node were currently active, the Someone node would lead to the Noob node

and the Noob node leads to Horrors beyond Skilled Coders' Comprehensions

Seggan

this is markov models tho were talking

Someone

are they always probability-based?

Seggan

01:08

if the probability is 100% everywhere, then its just a graph

user

@Someone wait you don't need to know python or scala to use the v2 or v3 repls

You just need to have python (or java) installed

lyxal

07:20

Seems innocent enough, something could probably stop water like that

🤔

I'm on the wish.com side of the internet again :p

Me on my way to snatch red packets quicker

Programming wireless earbuds?!?! For a reasonable price?!?!!

> the ... compass function surpasses your imagination

Why 🤣

Can't afford the ball

This is so sad

Dannyu NDos

07:42

Epic's Flipnote - Whatcha Say AV

►

Low blown.

lyxal

there's an among us impostor edition for the ps4?

and I'm learning about this from wish.com?!+!?!??!?!

What has society come to

Ain't no way

gogy shirt

I'm done

I can't wish.com anymore

It's just too much

math scat

11:16

@lyxal I NEED THIS

Someone

12:14

what

is

happening

v2

lyxal

13:11

Bbrk24

13:54

I rolled a barcode again. Gosh dangit

Someone

14:12

sooo ai-generated rydwolf images, or what?

@Seggan does statistical typing have to be a Markov, or can it just be a directed graph with oddly specific conditions?

Seggan

15:34

@Someone that's kinda what a Markov model is

a graph but where the edges are probabilistic

DLosc

16:08

@lyxal There is an Age of Empires II player named lyx. I dunno how he pronounces it, but the commentators say "licks," not "likes."

@lyxal Petition: edit this to use Radvylf face

Ginger

^

Ginger

16:22

@DLosc "lyxal" the user is pronounced "likesall", but "LYCSAL" the compiler is pronounced "licksull"

I definitely didn't get those backwards, whoops

Someone

16:40

@Seggan but I'm talking about a graph that accounts for other nodes being active.

If there is a node called "Rydwolf" currently active, the "Someone" node goes to the "Noob" node. That's not probabilistic.

Seggan

17:05

@Someone ah

DLosc

@Someone The canonical answer to the question of "what's tinylisp" is "awesome" ;)

But seriously: it's a toy language I created for an implement-this-language challenge. I think it's fun to golf in, and several other people agree. I've also made an updated, more powerful version called tinylisp 2.

Seggan

@DLosc i read it as "Icks"

DLosc

@RydwolfPrograms That is very nice. (Speaking from experience.)

emanresu A

18:24

That reminds me I should really get back to my tinylisp self-interpreter

Someone

18:44

@emanresuA is there no exec command?

emanresu A

Ish but it doesn't conform to the rules

Also the code still needs to be parsed (although I did that already)

Tail call recursion is the hard part

math scat

19:54

EVERY DAMN SUBREDDIT

how.

user

20:07

Call the mod

math scat

good point

user

20:32

No that was another anarchychess reference

But I guess at least one mod (@lyxal) would be pleased to see this

@mathscat *puts nerd glasses on* I feel like proof by infinite descent is more of an axiom that's separate from reductio ad absurdum (I'm assuming reductio ad absurdum is the same thing as proof by contradiction but that might be wrong)

I guess infinite descent does involve saying "it would be absurd for this to go on forever" but that's basically how every axiom works

math scat

huh didn't notice that

Bbrk24

21:25

@Ginger if I wanted to install sechat v2, how should I do that? Is it on pip?

also, I don't even remember installing Python but I already have two versions

$ ls /usr/bin/python*
/usr/bin/python3  /usr/bin/python3.10  /usr/bin/python3.11
$ python3 --version
Python 3.10.12
$ python3.10 --version
Python 3.10.12
$ python3.11 --version
Python 3.11.0rc1

(I suppose 3.10 is a dependency on Swift, but)

I think I'll remove 3.11 since it's an RC

Ginger

@Bbrk24 use a package manager which can support installing from GitHub, like Poetry

why do you ask?

Bbrk24

I want to try something

also I should probably make a second account for this right

Ginger

21:40

k

Bbrk24

@Ginger I have never seen a website hide the "how to install" so well :P

(I got it)

Unrelated String

@emanresuA is tail call optimization a necessary part of the language spec

like obviously the interpreter is going to suck without it, but a self-interpreter is more a curiosity than anything anyways :P

Bbrk24

How the heck did Poetry know my legal name

user

Git

I think Git stores that

What would be surprising is if Poetry also knew your illegal name

Bbrk24

oh right

Ah yep, git config --global --get user.name is right there

user

21:48

@Bbrk24 Huh, you weren't kidding

Bbrk24

It's under "introduction"

user

Most tools have a tab for Installation at the top

Yeah I found it

I already have Poetry installed but I do not remember the installation instructions being hidden in the documentation section

Ginger

@Bbrk24 ~~Poetry knows all~~

Bbrk24

yep, don't edit, just send it again

Ginger

mober phone be like

2

Rydwolf Programs

21:55

@Someone The old demo? Yes

I'm tired of people seeing it and thinking it's RTO

This literally reads like satire

Unrelated String

ahahaha

i especially love how it's bolded

Rydwolf Programs

Exactly it reads like you're supposed to put emphasis on those words but the second you do it just sounds mocking

@Seggan Not really

All markov chains are graphs

One where every node has 100% probability would be more like a set of trees you traverse from leaf to root

Bbrk24

@Ginger pylance can't find my venv

Rydwolf Programs

@Bbrk24 Okay yeah am I missing something or do you have to find that tiny little link at the bottom under "other projects"

Bbrk24

it's under "introduction"

Rydwolf Programs

22:03

oh

Bbrk24

Okay I figured it out\

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms I'd bet money that the programmers were too tired to put effort into that page so they made up some marketing copy and called it a day

Unrelated String

"The behavior is configurable." might be one of the funniest sentences i've ever read

The behavior is configurable.

Ginger

CONFIGURE THE BEHAVIOR

Rydwolf Programs

It's like someone already bothered to run the detect bullshit bookmarklet

Unrelated String

22:10

lmaooooo

Rydwolf Programs

But like the evil dark side detect bs script that just emphasizes it

Unrelated String

Rydwolf Programs

"an bullshit" is the biggest flaw of that script :/

> always be isolated from your bullshit.

Ginger

> BULLSHIT CLI

windows users be like

Unrelated String

@RydwolfPrograms Reveal Bullshit makes detecting bullshit simple. The results can be ungrammatical, but that's your problem.

Rydwolf Programs

22:16

I guess it needs its behavior to be configurable

lyxal

But who was phone?

Ginger

Poetry, apparently

Rydwolf Programs

Anything that starts with a P in programming is guaranteed to be cursed

Ginger

PLDI, Philosophy, PHP, Picrosoft Pindows

lyxal

Pipis

Bbrk24

22:22

@Ginger How do I actually use sechat? Like how would I add an onmessage event listener?

Ginger

@room.on(Events.MESSAGE)
def onMessage(event):
    ...

might be EventType.MESSAGE

Bbrk24

oh got it, thanks

sechat doesn't export a lowercase room

Ginger

> export

one sec, lemme write an MVE

Bbrk24

@Ginger just got back from working on something in JS

Ginger

from sechat import Bot, Room
from asyncio import run

async def main():
    bot = Bot()
    bot.authenticate("username", "password", "https://codegolf.stackexchange.com")
    room = bot.joinRoom(136286)

    @room.on(Event.MESSAGE)
    async def onMessage(event):
        await room.send("sus")

    while True:
        pass

asyncio.run(main())

hopefully I didn't make any mistakes with that :p

Bbrk24

22:28

Oh! I see

I thought this was a method on a subclass of Bot

don't you have to await bot.authenticate?

same with joinRoom

Ginger

correct

Bbrk24

Can I replace the while True: pass with another library's event loop, if that event loop internally calls asyncio.run? Or is that going to not work?

Rydwolf Programs

...is that somehow not a busy loop? or does sechat busy loop

Bbrk24

Maybe if I drop my __init__.py it'll be clearer what my goal is

import asyncio

import discord
import sechat

# idk how to do this properly so I just put secrets.py in the gitignore
from .secrets import *

sechat_client = sechat.Bot()
room = None

class DiscordClient(discord.Client):
    async def on_message(self, message: discord.Message):
        print(f'Discord message from {message.author}: {message.content}')

async def main():
    global room
    await sechat_client.authenticate(email, password, 'https://codegolf.stackexchange.com')
    room = await sechat_client.joinRoom(1)

discord_client.run(token) is basically asyncio.run(discord_client.start(token))

I am trying to make a bridge

Right now I'm starting with seeing if it's even possible to connect to both simultaneously

Ginger

22:49

@Bbrk24 does start run forever?

Bbrk24

discord_client.run is documented as not returning, only throwing errors

start is short for login + connect, and connect says:

> This is a loop that runs the entire event system and miscellaneous aspects of the library. Control is not resumed until the WebSocket connection is terminated.

Ginger

okay, you can just do await discord_client.start()

Bbrk24

got it

I'm getting an error importing .secrets for some reason

Cool, figured that out, and now authenticate is giving me a RuntimeError

  File "/home/bbrk24/workspace/sechat-bridge/sechat_bridge/__main__.py", line 19, in main
    await sechat_client.authenticate(email, password, 'https://codegolf.stackexchange.com')
  File "/home/bbrk24/.cache/pypoetry/virtualenvs/sechat-bridge-TGZlyHC--py3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sechat/bot.py", line 177, in authenticate
    fkey = await self.scrapeFkey()
  File "/home/bbrk24/.cache/pypoetry/virtualenvs/sechat-bridge-TGZlyHC--py3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sechat/bot.py", line 99, in scrapeFkey

what does that even mean

Ginger

ah, I know this one

it happens if the Bot() isn't constructed inside of an async method

Bbrk24

It's because I constructed the bot at the top level instead of inside main? seriously?

Ginger

22:57

yup :b

this is one of many reasons why I haven't released v2 yet

Bbrk24

Task for room 1 exited abnormally. Restarting it.
Error:
Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/home/bbrk24/.cache/pypoetry/virtualenvs/sechat-bridge-TGZlyHC--py3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sechat/room.py", line 109, in loop
    await self.process(data)

  File "/home/bbrk24/.cache/pypoetry/virtualenvs/sechat-bridge-TGZlyHC--py3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sechat/room.py", line 122, in process
    await self.handle(EventType(event["event_type"]), event)

  File "/home/bbrk24/.cache/pypoetry/virtualenvs/sechat-bridge-TGZlyHC--py3.10/lib/python3.10/site-packages/sechat/room.py"…

oh it takes room, message not just the message

Cool, it's successfully receiving messages from both platforms

lyxal

Are you making a discord to SE chat bridge?

Bbrk24

maybe

lyxal

Tiny suggestion: group discord messages into 10 second chunks to avoid rate limiting

That's what vyxal bot v1 did when the chat to discord bridge still worked

Bbrk24

May do that. I am a good ways off from even trying to implement that

I do want to translate replies properly but that and batching are mutually exclusive

Unrelated String

23:10

CMSR: youtube.com/watch?v=pXxqTe5t1T4

lyxal

@Bbrk24 iirc when we tried having live replies, the bot ended up getting rate limited

And this was on a relatively quiet discord server too

Bbrk24

Go check out Sandbox and guess what check I forgot

lyxal

in Vyxal, Apr 27, 2022 at 5:30, by Vyxal Bot

[Discord Relay]
HyperNeutrino#1759: ok i think relay from here to se should work now
HyperNeutrino#1759: sends up to once every 10 seconds
HyperNeutrino#1759: to avoid the ratelimit

Turns out we never had live replies

Maybe you could be fine without batching

Bbrk24

@Ginger when a message has the "see more" button I get a <div class="partial">. How do I get the actual message text?

"what is show_parent?" show_parent: Any = None # idfk what this is "lol okay"

Rydwolf Programs

23:28

@Ginger show_parent relates to when you hover a message and another is highlighted (e.g., for replies)

emanresu A

@UnrelatedString Yes

You can't do much without it

Bbrk24

Problem with translating replies: you can retroactively change the reply for a SE message, but not a Discord message. I could just translate the links and pings

Rydwolf Programs

I just thought of the best language name ever

I'm gonna keep it a secret since I decided instantly what to use it on and I don't want to spoil it

Unrelated String

@emanresuA figures

Seggan

@RydwolfPrograms RSNBATWPL2?

Unrelated String

23:39

rsnbatwpl0

Rydwolf Programs

It's named RySN

So it won't be the recipient of my name idea

Tho it definitely would fit

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms finally, an answer

lyxal

@RydwolfPrograms breaking bad reference?!?!?

Rydwolf Programs

no?

[Ry]dwolf [S]hould [N]ot (be allowed to write programming languages)

lyxal

Ricin

Ricin ( RY-sin) is a lectin (a carbohydrate-binding protein) and a highly potent toxin produced in the seeds of the castor oil plant, Ricinus communis. The median lethal dose (LD50) of ricin for mice is around 22 micrograms per kilogram of body weight via intraperitoneal injection. Oral exposure to ricin is far less toxic. An estimated lethal oral dose in humans is approximately 1 milligram per kilogram of body weight.Ricin is a toxalbumin and was first described by Peter Hermann Stillmark, the founder of lectinology. == Biochemistry == Ricin is classified as a type 2 ribosome-inactivating protein...

RySN

Rydwolf Programs

23:46

Oh I pronounce it "ryzen"

Also do we live in a world where "ricin" is a breaking bad reference >:|

lyxal

That's roughly the same way ricin is pronounced

@RydwolfPrograms if you'd watch the show you'd know it was a recurring key plot point

Rydwolf Programs

I've seen the show

But did you really hear about ricin from the show?

Like it's not like some obscure thing breaking bad came up with

lyxal

No, but it's the first thing I think of

Because I've browsed r/okbuddychicanery that much :p

Bravo Vince

user

I'm watching Breaking Bad right now and I can confirm that it was the first thing I thought of when I saw "ricin" just now

Even though I've heard it plenty of times before, like in my grandma's recipes

Rydwolf Programs

smh y'all probably barely even have a functioning relationship with the KGB huh

user

23:55

RIP grandma

She died inexplicably a couple days after her birthday, when I cooked some food for her

In retrospect, maybe she meant "Throw some rice in there"

lyxal

Did you try making rice and beans for her?

user

Well see I thought it was ricin beans at the time

Thought it was weird that she'd want that for her birthday, but it was her birthday so I didn't question it

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