@Seggan no, IDK what those are

check the docs

what docs

/srs where tf are the ANTLR docs, all I've been able to find are awful conglomerations of markdown files in the ANTLR repo

antlr.org/api/Java

:o

@Seggan I have not, should I be doing so?

if you are getting NPEs, probably the AST isnt aggregating properly

@Seggan well, now I have new problems, because the Kotlin language server spews errors everywhere when I run it on the Pi

it says map is an unresolved reference :|

oh and suddenly it just... starts working again????????

wtf

ah well, at least it's fixed

@Seggan so how do I fix this?

check rol source

attempted a fix, let's see if it worked...

nope

whats the aggregateResult?

you must find the source of the NPE

@Seggan the default one

no that replaces the current with defaultResult, which is null unless you overrode it

you should combine your ast nodes in aggregateResult

lemme just copy yours d:

smh

ill soon have ownership claims over 90% of your codebase :q

don't be so sure, I'm planning to write everything else myself :p

well, it's a bit better

no more NPEs

time to add some reprs

@Ginger make that 60%

@lyxal Better CaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yesss I've now legally acquired one of the MCR songs not on Spotify

Only cost $1.29, Apple does not make it easy to get their songs as actual files tho lol

Had to download iTunes on Windows (apparently it still exists lol, as an entirely separate thing from Apple Music) then managed to find a file path to an m4a of it

Oh wow I remember iTunes for Windows

Gee that was a long time ago

Syncing my ipod touch to the windows 7 (or xp I don't remember which windows I had at the time) and watching the sync screen going

Good times

Completely different note - I just tried to put my phone charger into my laptop

Only to realise "oh hey that's not where it goes"

Its now in my phone

Where it's suppose to be :p

I've got a CD on the way from Japan that cost me like $40 just so I can grab an mp3 of the next unlisted song

Luckily from there on there's no official copies, and no copyright claims on the live recordings, so I can just rip the highest quality copy I can find off YT and it's perfectly legit

imagine listening to music you can find on albums and streaming services

Well tomorrow I pick the classes I take next year

Still undecided on which science class lol

The options:

There's also Engineering Science which I'm pretty sure I'm taking but could swap out for another science class if for some reason I really felt like it, or which I could use in place of a science class if I didn't want to take any of the above three

what I ended up doing when I was in a similar situation was choose biology (which is what your environmental science is)

We have an AP Biology too

I'm in it this year

The pros and cons of each:

so then what's enviromental science?

pick the one that guarantees you the most marks

huh, those two were one course when I was in high school

@lyxal Maybe, but it's not actually super important to do that anymore

I'm applying to college in the summer/early next school year

GPAs won't update until after I've been accepted (or not)

So it really only matters for flexing purposes

so if marks aren't important - take the one you'll enjoy the most

that, or something which can be a "backburner" subject

That's what I'm trying to figure out :p

question: how hard are the other subjects you're taking?

@lyxal Well, they are one course initially. In 9th grade you take regular/advanced Biology, which covers both. AP Bio and AP Environmental go into wayyy more detail about the two parts

@RydwolfPrograms as I said, one course when I was in high school

one course taken over 2 years

Ah. I think since we have this weird trichotomy of regular-advanced-AP that probably explains the difference

(most people are expected to take at most one of the AP science classes)

@lyxal Rigorous, but not nearly as bad as this year

@RydwolfPrograms then give yourself a chance to have one of the classes not be rigorous

That's what Comp Sci's for :p

then give yourself 2 :p

This year I get to take one that's two class periods

So hah :p

But yeah I think I'll go with Environmental

good choice

@RydwolfPrograms the science courses have different tiers? Only Literature Studies and Maths were split in the uni-entrance-last-years-course-exam system here

@RydwolfPrograms I've got AP Literature (no clue what to expect), AP Gov't/Economics (maybe some homework but an easy A), AP Statistics (same as before), Engineering Science (probably mostly in-class work), AP Psych (no clue what to expect), and CS Practicum (two off-periods and/or a paid internship, either way can't lose)

@lyxal The what system

I cannot parse those words :p

Like how you have what y'all call AP, and how I had what we call the HSC

There're AP classes for pretty much every subject

a thing/program you do at the end of schooling for a few years and gives you a score to apply to unis with :p

They're even working on ones for Business Management and African-American Studies

@lyxal Well the scores are less intended as things to show off to colleges and more as replacements for college classes

my point is more to have a general term for things like that

ah

because I know that AP isn't 100% comparable to the HSC, but I do know that they're both things students in the last years of school

Worth noting my school's wayy aboverage in terms of quality and selection of advanced classes

please whatever you do don't edit aboverage

that's a beautiful word I didn't know I needed

We've got like 30 AP classes if I remember right, which most schools (esp. lower income ones) wouldn't have anything close to

Yeah I saw that typo before hitting enter and decided it was too good not to keep :p

Aboverage. it just works.

I'll have taken 20 of them by the time I graduate

(well, 19 classes and 21 tests, but it averages to 20 :p)

FSM stands for "Frick this Sh*t, Man." and you can't convince me otherwise

definitely doesn't stand for Finite State Machine

Should net me a year or so of college credit to give me some flexibility to do a variety of electives given that I have absolutely no clue what I want to do in or after college

do you have an idea of what degree you want to do?

Nope lol

well options include doing Computer Science like Hyper, Mathematics like Caird and Software Engineering like me :p

Maybe AI, maybe CS, maybe political science, maybe theoretical physics or engineering or biomedical science or cybersecurity or some other thing I never knew I was interested in

I'm probably just gonna have fun and take whatever classes I feel like taking then stuff a bunch of degree requirements in in the last year so I can graduate with whatever major I'm closest to attaining :p

From a slide about FSM States

and about naming states

with the example of "the state of a student watching this video"

savage

Probably won't do mathematics since I don't plan on staying in academia, and probably won't do software engineering or anything too close to real world comp sci stuff since I don't want to funnel myself toward being a person who sits at a desk and gets gray hair over legacy code in an HR firm's internal software suite while making a decent amount of money and dying having contributed very little to the world that isn't code to process insurance claims

I don't have the guts to major in political science or law tho. Super risky.

@RydwolfPrograms counter argument: software engeering funnels you into being the manager of people who sit at desks and get gray hair over legacy code in an HR firm's internal software suite

That too :p

If you can fight your way to the top there's probably a lot of good you can do as a CTO/CISO/... (or with their salaries) but someone's probably got sharper fingernails and more family friends with the board

you know what would be funny, making a set called N that's just the set of all natural numbers with the letter B included, and make it so that B isn't less than/greater than anything, hence breaking reflexivity, symmetry and transitivity of <, >, <= and >= (where applicable), also making it no longer closed under those operations where applicable.

And then give students in a discrete math/set-theory lecture a quiz using N instead of the regular natural number set and seeing how many people get trolled.

"ayo lecturer why is there a plain N here? Did you mean to have the double struck N?" "hehe that's what you think"

I think that would be an acceptable amount of tomfoolery

f

I'm really surprised at the quality of assignments ever since I got to college

In high school, we certainly had poorly written assignment descriptions, but actual mistakes were few and far between

Here, professors have been using the same material for years and years and they still manage to have awfully vague assignment descriptions, loads of typos, and other ridiculous mistakes

They also tend to make assumptions about what students already know

One was baffled that many people didn't know that lg meant log_2 in CS (and apparently it's a different base in other fields, which I guess makes sense) or that a bar over a boolean variable is negation

He's also like "I don't know why, but the lecturers in <earlier course> made the mistake of teaching you using zero-indexing instead of one-indexing. I don't know why they would do that, because zero-indexing requires modifying this one algorithm to do a +1 in one place"

But the guy has tenure, so I guess he doesn't need to worry about being a decent lecturer. I guess he must be really good at research

*must have been good enough at research, at some point

@user that's what it means?!

huh

well, I managed to write a toString for Identifier that is somehow recursive and crashes the program :/

(@Seggan)

wtf lol

I sure hate when teenage boys run around pillaging and exterminating

That's pretty controversial lmao

> executioner

Guess what? I managed to get hold of a copy of "What if?

@mathcat laughs holding What If? How to and What if? 2

lol

i should get thing explainer

i loved the other 3 books

@PyGamer0 i have read What If and Thing Explainer

Thing Explainer was pretty hilarious actually

still trying to get a hold of What If 2 from the library

@user 0 indexing forever!!!!!!

@Seggan gradle run interprets filenames for the interpreter as task names

wait, maybe I can make some changes to the VSCode config...

@Ginger ./gradlew run --args="arg1 arg2"

ah

literally the first google result for "gradle run add args"

currently trying to bang the Java VSCode extensions into working with Kotlin, because the Kotlin ones aren't running the project correctly

I think I just broke something

ooh, looks like it worked

@user LOL

@RydwolfPrograms I've got a termite problem in my house, guess I'll call the graffiti artist =P

@Seggan guess what I'm about to do? Compile the Kotlin debug adapter from source

...why

Why do you like compiling everything from source?

look

I'm not doing this by choice

what I'm doing requires the bleeding-edge version of the Kotlin language server, not the version that ships with the Kotlin VSCode extension

Ginger is Gentoo user confirmed

@RydwolfPrograms 1. no, I'm Ginger, it says it right there and 2. I've got a bit of a talent for having to run esoteric software in unexpected ways on strange machines, so I have to compile things from source a lot

That second thing only proves you to be a Gentoo user

One great thing about Gentoo is that you can use it on all sorts of weird architectures because it's source-based

imagine not using Debian

@user hm, maybe I should try it

HALLELUJAH IT WORKED

:D

There's a way to use Portage on other operating systems iirc, so you may not need to actually use Gentoo

Prefix

compiling it from source fixed everything!

Or I guess you could use Gentoo and then use Flatpak or something else

\o/

*smug laughter*

now, lemme go and post an answer to the SO question asked by the one other person on the planet who has these issues

quick yall help me come up with some marketing copy for Rabbit

I need some because... reasons

Every time I ask a question on SO, I have to post a bounty to get any attention

I guess I ask too hard questions

@Steffan I.e. once, so far? ;P

@Ginger ikr

@Ginger aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

@Ginger huh?

like the stuff you see on a language's website

🐇

yes

"foobar is a hydrodynamic, carbon-positive sexually oriented 22st-century language with goose typing and garbage production"

something like that

Yeah, don't forget to mention its sexual orientation.

well idk, an interactive editor would be cool

What about college orientation?

Magnetic orientation

@DLosc The newset one needs a bounty too, I just have to wait two days lol

35 minutes

cool

Wait it took longer to go from one side of Los Angeles to the other than it took to go from Tokyo to LA >:|

Cursed CMC: Graph a sine wave in polar form

As in, a polar function that looks identical to a sine wave graphed rectangularly

@RydwolfPrograms impossible

Ooh why

it would give multiple values of r for the same theta

Yeah and

be definition, not a function

Nobody said it needs to be a function (in the dumb traditional sense) :p

cannot be mathematically expressed (at least at the trig level that i know)

@RydwolfPrograms then you need code

Also controversial math opinion the idea of a function only returning a single thing is incredibly stupid

E.g., nth roots

@RydwolfPrograms but its also incredibly helpful

@RydwolfPrograms no one cares about the negative

Why is the squareroot of 4 just 2. Why isn't -2 also an answer? Why isn't the graph of the squareroot of x the inverse of x²?

@Seggan How?

All that the idea of the "principal root" and a single output from every function does is lead to weird edge case fuckery and confuse people

@RydwolfPrograms you dont have to worry about extraneous values messing up your calculations

Actually it's the opposite

what would happen to your precious shader if sqrt returned negative?

Doing it my way would remove the whole idea of extraneous values

and also lead to more people dropping out in math class

I don't think the marginal additional complexity of "there are two squareroots" will cause a mass exodus from math classes around the world

You already need to confront that at some point anyway

@RydwolfPrograms yeah

We already put "x > 0" conditions all over the place in math anyway

try doing any higher order algebra assuming 2 square roots

@RydwolfPrograms for our sanity :P

@Seggan Wdym by "higher order"?

Like group theory?

Algebra that takes algebra as input d:

I think you're missing the fact that this change makes math way more elegant

What we do now is a horrible, disgusting kludge

@RydwolfPrograms as in like functions with squares, cubes, etc

This would leave all of those either unchanged or much prettier/more rigorous

no

Gimme an example then

You know that there really are N roots of an N degree polynomial either way right

@RydwolfPrograms gibbe a bit

We just pretend there aren't syntax-wise

@RydwolfPrograms yeah

And I think that "syntax sugar" is really dumb and leads to problematic ideas

...like functions having a single output

Or I should change that wording

@RydwolfPrograms sqrt(x) = sqrt(y)

The idea that math-functions are function-functions

with todays math you assume x = y, not so with your math

Why not with my math?

sqrt(x)² is still just x

Since both squareroots square to the same value

So you can square both sides and get x = y

Now let's look at the counter

x² = y²

@RydwolfPrograms you just said square roots have multiple values

@RydwolfPrograms This is an example of normal math being confusing and mosleading

Since x = y is not necessarily true

in your math -sqrt(x) = sqrt(x) then?

@Seggan Yeah, and to solve that equation, you need to square both sides

@Seggan Probably

Depends on how you choose to represent the multiple values

But if we do a set, {2, -2} does equal {2, -2} vectorized by unary minus

@RydwolfPrograms thats what i mean

Well it would either be consistently yes or consistently no depending on how we decided to represent the multiple answers

@RydwolfPrograms yeah, so you need to learn basic set stuff and redefine equality from what they learned in elementary school?

My favorite option is sets that vectorize (and cartesian-product-vectorize for dyads), which works great

@Seggan How is equality at all different

And why elementary school?

All you need to tell elementary schoolers is that there is no single square root of a number; the square roots of a number x are the two numbers that square to x

> does equal ... vectorized by unary minus

The equality doesn't change, - does

@RydwolfPrograms because until you teach them this they learn x = y and thats it

There is not a single sqrt(x), there are two

@RydwolfPrograms see, now ure getting me confused

@Seggan I don't know what you mean by this

they learn x = y

In what context? In the context of sqrt(x) = sqrt(y)?

im typing

Or in the context of "this is what = means"?

then when they get to square roots they learn "oops, not always true, learn this basic sets stuff first"

No...= is the same = we have now

@RydwolfPrograms this

{2, -2} = {2, -2}

yes

What's new about that

Or at all confusing

but now were adding set theory into algebra?

It's not really set theory...more just the idea of having multiple options for what a variable is

And what makes you think algebra doesn't already include tons of set theory stuff

Like the solution to x = x being "all real numbers", or R in blackboard bold

it doesnt, really

Or the solution to x = x + 1 being ø, or the empty set

never met that one

I was taught both of those things when I was 11. Didn't need to know what they meant. That's still set theory.

brb clean

This adds a tiny bit of complexity up front in exchange for making everything involving roots and logarithms and stuff way more elegant and rigorous by default

but dont we already consider them to have 2 outputs

Square roots? No

We consider them to have a positive principal root and people add a plus-or-minus if they want both

Like in the quadratic formula

It gets hairier with higher roots and logarithms and inverse trig functions

That's another example: arcsin should have infinitely many outputs

Since there are infinitely many inputs to sin that yield a particular value

The idea that there's only a single arcsin just makes things get really confusing and gross in complex equations

@RydwolfPrograms You can totally return multiple things, it's just that in that case we call it a relation rather than a function. A function is the term for a relation that has exactly one output for each input.

@RydwolfPrograms thats still 2 outputs

@DLosc Yeah, and we should treat mathematical stuff as relations, not functions

@Seggan No, the plus-or-minus is what has two outputs

@RydwolfPrograms that just messes everything up

@RydwolfPrograms ^^^^^ Functions are defined as only returning a single thing

@Seggan How?

@user Yes and that should not change

We should just stop treating math stuff as functions

how are you supposed to do math with infinitely many outputs

@Seggan Same way you do normal math

And you can return sets and tuples from functions if you really want

(barring the fancy kinds of math)

@RydwolfPrograms how

"How are you supposed to do math with numbers that have infinitely many digits"

Same type of thing

You just don't...write them all out lol

yeah but which do you use?

All of them

@RydwolfPrograms at least you have one number and one road

@Seggan Do you have a particular case in mind that would be problematic?

Eventually you get to a point where they all coalesce into a single value, and/or you just have infinitely many valid solutions

Which is good

Rather than infinitely many outputs, perhaps thinking about arbitrarily many outputs might help? I think the Greeks did that

@RydwolfPrograms smh here im trying to do some simple trig and ure telling me i have infinite solutions to work with?

By simple trig, do you mean arccos, arcsin, etc.?

@user i was assuming he meant pi

@Seggan To be fair, it's infinite values with an easily-described periodic pattern, which probably boil down to one or two meaningfully different values if you're talking about angles

@user yeah

@DLosc true

@Seggan Sorry, haven't really bothered reading the rest of the conversation, what does pi have to do with functions that return infinitely many values?

Lemme give a really high level overview of how this would look

So, you'd no longer ever have numbers or sets or whatever on their own; they'd be part of a (typically single-element) set-of-possibilities

E.g., 1 + 2 is a shorthand for "the set of possibilities containing only 1 added to the set of possibilities containing only 2"

Monadic functions like f, sqrt, or log_2 take a set of possibilities, and return a set of possibilities

If the set of possibilities they take in has more than one item, the function is just vectorized

An example of this was the -sqrt(x) = sqrt(x) example from earlier. - is taking the set-of-possibilities which contains both square roots of x, and returning those two roots mapped with -

I think for dyadic functions the correct thing to do is mapping over the cartesian product of the sets-of-possibilities

So Poss(1, 2) + Poss(4, 10) = Poss(5, 6, 11, 12) (note that a set-of-possibilities does not necessarily behave like a regular set; they're their own thing)

This removes a ton of weird edge cases in integration, equation solving, etc.

@RydwolfPrograms could you give an example of data for this?

I'm on board with the idea, I just want to know what it looks like

Take x = 4. sqrt(x) = Poss(-2, 2), so -sqrt(x) = -Poss(-2, 2) = Poss(-(-2), -2)

Aha I see

👍

In that specific case it's just an identity function, but if you were to do, say, sqrt(sqrt(16)), you'd get sqrt(Poss(-4, 4)) = Poss(sqrt(-4), sqrt(4)) = Poss(-2i, 2i, -2, 2)

That's a neat little consequence of set based algebra

(and if you do the inverse, (x²)² for those four, they all give you 16, and are the only values for which this is the case in the set of complex numbers. Compare that to normal sqrt which would tell you it's just 2)

Well, possibility based algebra actually

@RydwolfPrograms And then you'd have to muck around with two different levels of plus-or-minuses if you wanted to do it right