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20:44
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Q: UK faculty salaries are much lower than US -- is there any upside?

user3037237I was looking at faculty jobs, and most of the jobs in UK publish the salary range and band, which (from my understanding) is essentially non-negotiable and adopted by most universities in the UK. It ends up being roughly 65k USD for an assistant professor / lecturer entry level position, even fo...

We had many questions here about people surprised that someone can accept a position in a lower-ranking university or can accept going to universities which offer lower salaries, like your question. All these questions miss the fundamental point that many people wants to live in a certain place and not in another one. For instance, in 25 years at university in my country, I've been asked several times why I didn't search for a position in a US university or reasearch center. Well, I don't want to live in the US ;-)
@MassimoOrtolano You should make it an answer, because it is exactly what it is.
You are trying to reduce a very complex thing to a single number. And if that number (salary) is all important to you and nothing else really matters then you really ain't suited to academia.
@DmitrySavostyanov For the moment, I didn't post it as an answer because I don't know about the UK, and maybe someone from the UK can add something more specific.
Without a holistic assessment of the cost of living in the country (including things like sending your kids to college, retiring, and whatnot), one single data point on salary is pretty meaningless.
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We have universal health care that does not depend on the whims of our employers, and a mostly unionised higher education workforce.
It’s not quite a duplicate, but there’s a lot of overlap with this question. I’m not sure whether I should repeat my answer there, but at any rate this is largely about the currencies. The pound has not done well.
I think you are really underestimating the amount of tax you pay in the US. I have a couple of friends who are professors and make our own 100k per year and the pay up to 50% in tax. It also depends on which US state.
There's a lot more variation in salaries within the US than your question assumes.
@HermanToothrot 50% is quite high. How does that break down? (Federal/state/local)
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Are some of your questions answered by looking at cost of living?
Back in the day, it used to be you got a pretty nice final salary pension, if you're very lucky you might still get on one, but many are putting new hires on defined contribution.
A lot of people that have lived their entire lives in developed nations would not move to the US for any amount of money. But your wording suggests that you've lived in the US your entire life; are you aware of the standard and mode of living in the UK, or other developed nations? Have you considered the change in lifestyle that comes with moving to another country? (Both for better and for worse)
Not sure if I want to add this as an answer, but I personally refuse to work in (or even set foot in) the US for ideological reasons.
I moved from EU to USA, trust me salary in Europe are like salary of admin worker in US uni. So low
@OlegLobachev Not really -- cost of living is really really high in London (where the job is that I'm considering), but wages are substantially lower than in other comparable cities like Boston (where I'm also looking at jobs).
@astronat Fair point, and maybe that's enough for some people. From having worked in a half dozen universities in the US, the health care has always been exceptional and cheap. Indeed it's one of the main selling points to faculty at R1 universities in the US. But for other people maybe this is enough.
@Buffy You've totally missed my point. All I have right now is knowledge of the salary -- I've never lived in the UK. What I'm asking is more information about what makes a place like London a great city, even on a lower salary? I'm more than happy to take a way lower salary if the quality of live is better. What I want are examples and specifics as to whether or not that's the case.
@MassimoOrtolano I also might never want to live in the UK, but I have no idea because I've never lived there. Perhaps you could be a bit more helpful and tell me what it is about the UK that makes quality of life better, even with a lower salary, relative to places you've lived in the US or other European cities.
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For what it's worth, at my UK institution I get 6 weeks holiday plus 6 days when the university closes at Christmas and Easter (plus public holidays).
Not an answer within the constraints of OP's recent edits, and perhaps a bit abstract for some, but: some people may feel rather safer living in a country which (whatever troubling noises its present Government makes) actually has ratified the regional human rights convention of its host continent.
@user3037237 That depends on your life goals and values. For instance, for me a national health system, gun control, work rights (e.g. not being fired at will), paid vacation days, paid sick days and the possibility to have a leisurely walk or a grocery store at walking distance are fundamental. And not only for me, personally, but I'd like to live in a place where certain things are for everyone. Moreover, I want to stay in the area were my family and closest friends live. You might have different goals and values, and you might prefer a higher salary, but not everyone wants the same.
@user3037237 "exceptional and cheap"... but in the UK it's exceptional and free, for everyone, forever, no matter what job they do (or do not do). This, coupled with union power, being close to my family, cheap and widespread public transport and never having to worry about being shot at work (or elsewhere) is why I would always choose the UK over the US. But as everyone's been telling you, it's down to personal preference. These are the selling points for me, but they perhaps do not matter so much to you.
If your offer is to work in London then expect to have a 30 year mortgage to buy house or do very long commutes. Salaries in academia have not kept up with the cost of living in the major European capitals. I would never accept a job in London Paris or Madrid just to make a few examples on a regular academic salary, there would just be too many compromises. But yes you would get the "culture" of the big-city.
House prices in Oxford, Cambridge and London are exorbitant. Recruiting staff is difficult becasue once you select someone, they back out once they find out how much it costs to live.
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned how the odds of getting shot by your student differs between US and UK institutions, the latter being substantially less.
@astronat It's not free. It's paid for through your taxes.
@user76284 I've never paid tax in the UK and yet I've received NHS care for 27 years... my point is that you can be unemployed, not paying tax, homeless, whatever, and still have access to healthcare without having to pay. It's not tied in any way to your employment. I would not want to live in a country that doesn't look after its occupants in the same way.
@astronat National insurance in the UK is 12% of what you make of 10k gbp per year. That's almost double what I've paid in US institutions for health insurance premiums, in part because many big R1 universities in the US are tied to teaching hospitals.
@astronat Then you're living off other people's taxes.
@user76284 Still much, much better (and ethical) than having 30 millions uninsured people, as in the US. That's civilisation vs barbarism...
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@YvanVelenik Why? Because you say so? And considering civilization has existed for millenia, your statement is pure nonsense. Furthermore, if people want to be uninsured, that's their choice, not yours.
30 millions uninsured, more than half a million homeless, etc, in a country that spends $750 billions per year for "defense". That's without taking into account the number of people killed by firearms, etc. Yeah, I stand by what I said: civilisation vs barbarism!
@user76284 I have not changed the subject, just given additional examples of the numerous things that make the US a country I would never, ever move to.
@YvanVelenik Like I said, you try to derail when you can't answer the question. You made a dubious, unsupported assertion and then a false one.
 
2 hours later…
22:30
@user76284: *"It's not free. It's paid for through your taxes."* I find it somewhat curious that whenever someone mentions that healthcare, or higher education, or whatever, is free in some countries, another person feels obliged to reply "It's not free, it's paid for by taxpayers' money."
I fail to see what's the point of this reply. It's completely obvious to everyone that a publicly funded health system like NHS in the UK does not just emerge from somekind of vacuum, but is - well - publicly funded (i.e. funded from taxes). So if somebody says "it's free for everyone" they obivously mean
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