@markbeadles You were the one active on the Conlang proposal right? I think it was you... I don't know if you saw that, but Conlangs are on topic on Linguistics now. With some not-clearly-defined-yet caveats, maybe, but the're on topic. I wanted to notice all of those committers in the Conlang proposal but the proposal itself was deleted.

@Cerb: Please ping me when you are there.

@Cerberus Have I told you about the space problem in my Samsung?

@Gigili Hi.

@Alenanno Oh, dear. Too little memory?

How much does it have?

And don't you have an SD card slot?

Yeah, I do. Over 9 GB of available space.

What is USB memory?

I honestly don't know...

The cell phone calls it

USB or Flash memory

shrugs

Hmm.

So can you see which applications take up the most space on your phone?

Because 128 is indeed very little!

Yeah, they are Google Japanese Input (14 MB), Maps, Samsung Apps...

._.

Ah OK. And you have tried moving those to your card, but it didn't work?

I guess Japanese input would be impossible.

Can you clear Google Maps's cache?

My Maps has 200 MB in cache, because I let it pre-save map areas.

Youtube can have a big cache too.

Do you know how to clear cache?

I don't know how it works on your Android version. You could Google it.

I tried doing those things but it saves up little space and after a while, the problem comes back again.

I can't understand why I am not able to move the apps. Every phone does it, why shouldn't an Android phone be able to do it? It seems weird.

The thing is probably that some applications are too intimately connected to the OS, like Japanese input and Maps.

Annoying indeed.

bongizmo.com/blog/…

You could try this.

Apparently there are ways.

I saw that article. But before trying to touch Terminal stuff, I'd like to check every option... :D

Perhaps there is an application that does the same thing as the ADB method.

You may need root for that.

For the rest, it's great though.

:)

Heh.

No, having so little memory and no ability to move large applications is very annoying.

I had 128 MB internal memory on my Windows Mobile phone from 2007.

And I put most applications on my SD card, which had 6 GB.

@Cerberus That's the only solution. :) Why can't I uninstall the standard apps? Like G+?

@johnlawler I didn't know you had problems with your accounts. I thought you chose to have a different name on Ling than on EL&U. If I had known that, I would have talked to the Team.

@Alenanno Yeah, that is annoying. It is probably possible, but you would need root and such for that.

@Cerberus What is exactly meant by root?

The "root" of a file system is the lowest possible directory, so the "C:\" folder in Windows. In some file systems, a normal user only has access to some higher folders, like C:\data. The OS is installed in a different folder, and you need access to the root to be able to access the OS folder. By access could be meant "the ability to change files', not sure. So in Android, root access means you are able to change things on the phone that the OS normally wouldn't let you.

Root access is commonly abbreviated to just "root".

Or at least that's how I understand it.

Oh I see...

Thanks. :)

play.google.com/store/apps/…

How about this? You do need to root your phone, then.

Rooting was fairly easy for my phone. There is an automated application.

Google your phone and root.

I tried this:

play.google.com/store/apps/…

But it says that my apps are not movable.

And the ones that are, are already on the SD. Apparently.

Yes, that one can only move applications that are not locked in unrooted phones.

The one I linked to should be able to move more applications.

Including the Samsung bloatware, I should think.

bloatware?

Software that just takes up space/memory without being of much use.

Commonly used for applications that are no part of the OS but that are preinstalled on the device by the manufacturer.

Ah ok. I have one or two in mind lol

Heh.

So I think you need to root your phone. That is a good idea anyway.

You should probably make a backup of all your data first.

I'll let you know whenever I solve this issue.

:)

What free games would you suggest for Android? Fruit Ninja is nice, but I also like puzzle stuff.

I haven't played many games on my phone, and I'd not really into puzzles...I like Robotek.

But...

Do you have enough space?

OMG! I used to play that game on my computer lol!

It's not compatible with my phone, though.

Aww.

@Alenanno Yes, that was me. Thanks! I believe that it is possible to have linguistically relevant questions that involve constructed languages, and even more likely that conlangers with questions on linguistics might find this a useful site to ask specific questions helpful to their efforts.

Hi.

@MarkBeadles I kind of advertised it.

Nice "advertisement". I will advertise it on some places I frequent. The worst that can happen is we'll get some bad questions, but loads of bad questions are not intrinsically a bad thing.

Let's hope for a general increase in terms of visits.

@MarkBeadles Well, we'll need to shape the thing as we go on.

Remember that even if closing a question sometimes is "sad", it's just for the greater good. We're only keeping the quality high.

If we didn't, experts would go away.

And the site would die (and close).

It's better to suffer now than later... Think about when you educate a kid. You're harsh when he's little so that he grows up better.

If you let a kid do what he wants, he'll grow up badly.

:P

The kind of question I think would be most useful would be "I am creating a conlang with 5 genders and I want to know what natural languages have multiple noun classes" - that might be OK since it's really about gender in natural language, with the conlang only being the motivation.

Umm...

Sorry to butt in here, but what are "noun classes"? Genders?

@Cerberus Sorry :) Genders in IE languages are usually Masc - Fem - Neuter

@MarkBeadles Yes, that's an OK question for us. :)

But in languages like kiSwahili, they have a dozen or more things that act like genders

and when they have a dozen, the no longer call them "genders" but "classes"

So you mean "things that function like genders"?

Ah OK.

@Cerberus Right

(It's just that there are other things you could mean by "noun class", such as which declension it belongs to, whether it is countable/uncountable/collective, or proper/common...)

@MarkBeadles What is there to classify beyond male, female and neuter?

So I would explain that in a question, what you mean by "noun class" exactly.

@Cerberus Good idea

But anyway, won't the answer be "these 14,987 languages have more than one noun class"? And why can't the part about creating this language be left out, if he is asking about real languages anyway?

Sorry, but I have to be a bit critical.

@Alenanno kiSwahili categorizes people; trees; groups; created things; animals; extended things; and abstractions

All morphologically marked as such?

@Cerberus It's a premise to the question. Which means context. I think that would help shape the answers.

@Cerberus I do not disagree with the first part; the question would have to be edited to not be a list question. @Alenanno is right about the second part; context is important

In general, the more context, the better; in this case, however, I don't see it.

@Cerberus Yes, all marked with separate prefixes

OK.

eg. mtoto is a child, utoto is childhood

Yes.

@Cerberus Considering the premise, you could set some requirements for the list of questions you're asking. This would help increase the quality of the question.

@MarkBeadles That reminds me of the Japanese 弟 (otōto) younger brother.

I...have to disagree with you guys, but I will conform to what the majority wants.

None of this sounds like what I would like to see here.

But so be it.

I can accept that I don't always get what I want, hehe.

I do have a concern that simply bringing up "conlang" will make most working linguists simply refuse to answer the question.

I will certainly refuse.

And be grumpy.

Eheh

But we'll have to see what kind of questions come up, and deal with them.

But then, I can quickly close the tab and find a question that I do like.

I certainly am not going to ask any conlang questions, but I'd be willing to answer them.

Isn't there an Area51 proposal?

@Cerberus That's why @Alenanno brought it up...the proposal died.

I would vote to restrict any such question to a special SE, if we must have one.

Oh.

@Cerberus Haven't you seen the Meta question? It's been deleted.

Well, if it died, then...doesn't that signify that there is little interest in this?

That's why I proposed the change in scope in the first place.

To be honest...given the very low support for the conlang it may be there is no interest.

Ugh.

There is low interest for an SE site, not for a tag.

The size of support required is different.

I just don't want it! stamps foot like a child

A StackExchange site needs a whole community. A tag doesn't. :P

It feels like helping someone with some hobby.

Like proofreading on English.SE, which was forbidden long ago.

@Cerberus That is for the most part what it is, although there are some edge cases.

Singe-Word Requests would probably be closest to Conlang questions: those are allowed on English.SE, but widely disliked.

Esperanto is an actual spoken human language now, for example

Yes.

So a question about esperanto could be on topic

@MarkBeadles I personally don't really like the look of it. But that's personal preference.

I have no problem with a question about a normal, natural development that happened to take place in Esperanto.

@Cerberus Yes, I think that would be ok too

We have already established the boundaries of what questions we allow on constructed languages, I believe, in some older Meta question; but creating languages certainly was not what we would allow.

But Klingon? Not so much.

By the way, Esperanto was on topic already.

@MarkBeadles Then how can you advocate that we allow this??

@Cerberus I tend to that too, but it's too broad to establish a hard rule. I'd go case by case.

@Alenanno Exactly—though only in so far as it met the criteria.

@Alenanno Yes, guidelines.

"Help me make a Conlang" is bad no matter how you see it.

But now you want to allow all questions about constructed languages?

@Cerberus I'm simply saying we shouldn't close any question that refers to conalngs as "off topic". We should look at each question case by case.

But if you hide that behind a good question, great.

@Cerberus I never said such a thing.

@Alenanno Well, Mark just proposed such a question, and both of you seemed fine with it!

The wording counts, as always.

@MarkBeadles We had already decided (unanimously) to do so! But that question you just posted here...

You can ask a basic basic question choosing "excuses" to make it look good.

@Cerberus It's no different than "I'm studying kiSwahili and.... I want to know what natural languages have multiple noun classes"

If you get the answer by doing that, I have no problem with it.

@MarkBeadles Right, that's why I said the part about constructing a language was perhaps not very relevant to the question?

Guys, the "what other languages have this feature" is already on topic for us. Certainly, if you ask for a feature that is too common, then it's too broad.

@Alenanno In general, I am fine with that.

@Alenanno Agreed.

@Alenanno Agreed as well.

Again, context, details. We always get back to that lol

For example:

"Let's compare Natural Language X to Conlang Y" is a no-no.

Too broad.

@Cerberus I think maybe I'm not being clear. I do not advocate questions like "help me build my conlang". I am saying, "if conlang is part of the questions, don't close it immediately"

@Alenanno Perhaps I got the wrong impression from your example question here...so what kind of questions about constructed languages would you want to allow now that we didn't already allow a month ago?

@Cerberus Any as long as they still abide by the standard rules.

So no list questions, no discussing, no polling, no surveying, etc.

@MarkBeadles Okay, I do not disagree with that: but I think we already practised that?

@Cerberus It may be that we have a distinction without a difference, yes :)

@Alenanno But "help me construct feature x" is not in the FAQ, is it?

@MarkBeadles Heh OK.

@Cerberus That would not be OK, if presented like that.

But for example:

Questions about linguists I think are on topic, so a question about Tolkien or Zamenhof might be OK?

@Alenanno Well. If you won't even allow that, then how have things changed between the last time you posted a Meta question about conlangs (when we were agreed) and the latest Meta question? The latter seems to want to allow "help me construct x"?

"I have problems creating this feature. Are there languages that <detailed and explained feature> so I can take inspiration?"... why not?

@MarkBeadles Uhm, well, we asked about Chomsky's views I guess, no?

"When was Tolkien born?" = No.

@MarkBeadles What kind of question? "Wouldn't it have been more consistent for Tolkien to have used word x in language B instead of word y?"? I would not like a question like that.

@Alenanno Again, the real question is not about conlangs, so it could be OK. The first bit is mainly irrelevant, so I would not say this question is about conlangs.

@Cerberus Good example... I'm not so sure it's bad, as long as you back it up. (Experience/facts VS opinions).

@MarkBeadles Hmm that could be OK.

@Alenanno I would vote to close and down-vote at the same time!

I don't like any questions about "is x better than y?". It's not academic.

Wait.

You said "more consistent" and now you said "better". There's a difference.

More consistent is definitely OK.

Unless you support it with literary theory, but this branch of linguists generally don't.

@Alenanno I disagree.

Consistent = good.

We're talking about facts, not mine or your opinion. While better asks for opinions.

How is consistent not better?

Just based on our chat, I'm almost hoping no one asks a question like these =D

@Cerberus I mean, if you say "more consistent", you're asking for answers that bring up facts and references and analyze the problem, not for opinions.

Because you're referring to the rules Tolkien himself used.

Not to Tolkien's opinions.

"Tolkien used a word with a harsh cht sound in the elven word for "tree", "achts"; would it not have been more consistent to have used a softer, friendlier sound, like "and"?"

@MarkBeadles Haha then we are again in agreement!

Then you should ask (yourself or the OP): was there a rule that said he should have used that? If yes, why? If no = question is not OK.

@Alenanno I see what you mean, but surely this means conjecturing about Tolkien's rules, and implying that following a rule is good, and that he did not do so?

Tolkien made languages with rules, so if you question a decision he made, you're saying "hey, here he didn't abide by his rules, why?"

@Cerberus There's no need to be conjecturing. The rules are everywhere, even in his books.

You could frame it like that, although I'm sure the kind of person asking these things will not ask them in that way!

@Cerberus In Tolkien's case, he heavily documented his process, was a trained and working linguist, and based his languages off of real-world ones. So I could see an answer that was rigorous, depending on how the question was constructed

@Cerberus That's why we have editing :D

Why do you guys think we can edit? Use that privilege! :P

@Alenanno ;)

That said, let's still be careful and go case by case.

It's the safer path if you're worried.

Secondly, how is asking about the intentions of a single artist part of linguistics? Unless you apply elaborate literary theory, which I am sure will not happen here, it will not be academic at all.

@MarkBeadles In theory, yes; but you would have to be a Tolkien expert and apply literary theory, not the kind of linguistics typically applied her.

@Alenanno Right.

We'll see.

I foresee lots of arguing.

@Cerberus Indeed, it's going to depend on the questions. Since there are as yet none, and we all have good awareness of the "issues", let's deal with them as they come. Truly bad questions are pretty easy to agree on.

It's the "borderline" questions that will cause arguing.

@MarkBeadles I don't know, I seem to have a different awareness than Ale and you. But we'll see.

That's why we're in Beta. We're defining our scope, nothing is really final.

@Cerberus The awareness is similar -- the response may not be :)

But I don't see why we should just exclude them without trying.

> The community has voted to favor the questions about Constructed and Fictional languages. However, some conditions must be met. For example: Off Topic: Why was this feature constructed the way it was?

Whom do you think I am quoting?

@Cerberus Yourself and me.

You seem to be opposing the Tolkien example here!

I forgot the reasoning why I wrote that. lol

@MarkBeadles Haha perhaps.

The real world calls, fellow, I will chat with you later

Ok, @MarkBeadles See you!

Come here more often. :)

Bye!

Yes, do visit us again!

@MarkBeadles If you don't come here, I'll suspend you! lol

(MOD ABUSE!!111!!)

Yay!

claps hands

I'll go too, see ya! :D

Bai!