lɪŋˈgwɪstɪks

David Wallace

01:04

@Cerberus Maybe my maths is no good; it's still coming.

Cerberus

@DavidWallace Exciting...

David Wallace

Hey, I just had my lunch. I made you stare at your screen for five minutes, for no good reason.

Cerberus

I do that all the time anyway.

David Wallace

I hope that "upload" button works for vids like it does for images. If not, this is all for nothing.

Cerberus

01:17

@DavidWallace Do you see anything happening?

If not, isn't it more efficient to upload it in a different way?

David Wallace

Says it's still uploading.

Cerberus

That's too long.

David Wallace

My maths is OK, isn't it? 18MB plus checkbits is 180 million bits; and at 857k bits per second that should take 210 seconds? There's nothing wrong with my arithmetic is there?

Don't stay up late on my account or anything!

Cerberus

I get similar results.

Don't worry, it's not my bed time yet.

18 MB should take you 3–4 minutes.

So it's not working.

Upload it here.

Noöne but I will be able to see that file that way.

I'm not keeping that link up here btw.

Because it allows people to upload files to my computer.

I'll post it again when you're ready.

David Wallace

OK, so I'll stop the ELU one.

Cerberus

01:26

"Stop", hehe.

David Wallace

I didn't see that link just now, but is it the same as the jotformeu one you posted earlier?

Cerberus

As if it were going anywhere...

No, I messed up the Jotform link, alas.

So had to use a different service.

Have you got it?

David Wallace

OK, I've started sending.

Cerberus

OK great.

David Wallace

The progress percentage is increasing healthily.

Cerberus

01:27

nods

David Wallace

Oh, it's "jot form". I read that as "Jot for me U".

Cerberus

Oh heh.

David Wallace

Up to 21%

Cerberus

Yes.

That's healthy indeed.

I will hear a pop on my computer once it's arrived.

David Wallace

Everyone else on ELU will be so disappointed not to be able to see me.

Cerberus

01:28

I will still need to download it after your upload. That happens automatically, but it will take another minute or so.

David Wallace

58% and counting.

Cerberus

@DavidWallace Then you could just put up a public link to your video, if you're up to it...

David Wallace

Nah, I might prefer to keep an air of mystique.

Cerberus

Understandable.

By the way, have you practised all the phonemes, or only the ui?

David Wallace

Just uy. You'll get the others in a horrible kiwi accent.

BTW I've finished uploading.

Cerberus

01:32

Heh.

Ah it's downloading, 1 m left.

David Wallace

So in case I do want to post a link to it somewhere, what would the URL be?

Cerberus

Ah I hear you! Albeit vaguely.

David Wallace

You're about to tell me that I've failed so miserably, you thought I was saying "Franz Beckenbauer".

Cerberus

No, the sound quality is very bad.

Does this link work for you?

I think your ui is quite close to the way it should sound.

It still sounds a tiny bit more like ai or oi than it should.

David Wallace

Would you like to post that link again? I lost it.

Thanks. Got it.

Cerberus

01:40

Does it work?

David Wallace

Yes. I see what you mean about the sound though.

Cerberus

OK.

I had to turn my speakers all the way up to max.

David Wallace

Hmm, "quite close". I guess that's as good as I'm likely to get.

Cerberus

Heh.

If you ever visit Amsterdam, I will personally train you to perfection.

David Wallace

I might have to attach a microphone to my PC, instead of relying on the one inside my webcam.

Cerberus

01:42

But your pronunciation is a bit difficult to judge due to the bad sound quality, and the r, which is not as I would pronounce it. But I will say this: in some Dutch dialects, your pronunciation sounds native!

David Wallace

So how do you pronounce R?

Feel free to compare it with how I said the R in Cruyff, or with how I said it in any of the English words in my recording.

Cerberus

Dutch has various r's.

In that particular word, it would be guttural.

David Wallace

You mean, like Northern French?

Cerberus

But in some Dutch accents it would be dental, like yours.

@DavidWallace A bit like the standard French r, though softer (I don't know about Northern French).

David Wallace

I could practise that, I guess.

It's a bit hard. NZ English doesn't have a guttural R; so I'd be making two unfamiliar sounds in immediate succession.

Cerberus

01:49

Understandable. We're weird like that.

I like your house.

From what I could see.

David Wallace

Oh thank you. You're assuming I was at home, of course.

Cerberus

Looks like a house, not an office.

But I could be wrong.

Nice paintings.

Uvular trill

The uvular trill is a type of consonantal sound, used in some spoken languages. The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents this sound is ⟨⟩, a small capital ar. This consonant is one of several collectively called guttural R. Within Europe, the uvular trill seems to have originated in Standard French around the seventeenth century, spreading to standard varieties of German, Danish, as well as in parts of Dutch, Norwegian and Swedish; it is also present in other areas of Europe, but it's not all that clear if such pronunciations are due to French influence. In mo...

I have finally found my r in Cruyff.

David Wallace

The paintings are all done by my brother-in-law in Sarajevo. He's fantastic. Wait; I'll see if I can find his web site.

Cerberus

Oh, cool.

David Wallace

amcho.biz

and click on "galerija slika".

Cerberus

01:55

Very nice.

I like this one:

subasic.eu/amcho/graphic_view_galerija.php?id=8

David Wallace

I should offer to produce an English version of the site.

Cerberus

Yeah do that.

David Wallace

The one you like may be for sale. If I'm allowed to tout here.

Cerberus

Heh.

I haven't any money.

David Wallace

Never mind then!

Cerberus

01:57

So this was all a hidden advertisement?

By the way, I like your Kiwi accent.

David Wallace

Actually, it never occurred to me that you were going to look at the paintings in my house.

Cerberus

I heard sintinces.

eyes you suspiciously

In any case it's nice to you see you, albeit vaguely.

David Wallace

That's so weird. British people accuse NZers of saying short "i" in place of short "e"; but I've never been able to pick it.

Cerberus

I don't know, I think it happens in some British accents too.

David Wallace

I could send you some photos of the other paintings in my house, if you like. I have about a dozen of the brother-in-law's works here.

Cerberus

01:59

Well, sure, as long as you don't expect me to buy stuff!

David Wallace

No, you've already made your position clear in that regard.

Cerberus

I would also like a video of the evil cats from hell.

David Wallace

There's nothing special about the cats.

Cerberus

But I like cats.

By the way, you didn't look awful at all, on the contrary.

David Wallace

No flirting in chat!

Cerberus

02:01

If you showed that to Gigi, oh my.

Hehe.

Hey this is the other chat.

It seemed to be OK here.

David Wallace

Hahaha!

Cerberus

I never said that, I take it back!

David Wallace

I have now plugged a microphone into my PC, so I can practise my uvular trills. I may just send you a sound file of my attempts to say Cruyff, bearing this in mind. I may also send you some photos of Amco's paintings. Will that filestork link work again, for sending you more stuff?

Cerberus

Yay!

Oops I just revoked permission to Filestork.

Let's see if I can set it up again.

David Wallace

Don't do it now. I won't bother with it now.

Cerberus

02:07

And you try to improve the sound + video quality.

OK I'll come up with something later.

David Wallace

I think I just need to invest in a better webcam. This one is made of shit.

Cerberus

Isn't there some way to focus it?

David Wallace

Ooh, yes, just noticed that.

Cerberus

And put the mike closer to your face?

David Wallace

@Cerberus OMG, I'm gorgeous!

Cerberus

02:09

Ah, you have located the focus button?

David Wallace

How come as soon as I move close to the camera, I can't make a uvular trill any more?

Cerberus

It's like singing while standing on one leg and knitting at the same time.

I don't know how we do it.

David Wallace

You do that?

Cerberus

We do the uvular trill.

David Wallace

Damn, and there I was imagining a three-headed dog, with knitting needles, three legs in the air, and singing beautifully.

Cerberus

02:15

Hehe.

David Wallace

OK, send me a dropbox link.

Cerberus

The beautifully is in any case very far from reality.

David Wallace

I expect a three-headed dog to be able to sing in close three-part harmony.

You and I could do barbershop quartets together.

Cerberus

Ok I think the old link should work again.

@DavidWallace Do you also expect the moon to smile at your and hand out bon-bons?

filestork.net/xjp9dufi

David Wallace

It's uploaded.

Cerberus

02:18

Ah nice.

We're getting there, but now the /k/ has changed into a /x/?

David Wallace

Oh crap, has it?

Cerberus

Maybe not every time.

David Wallace

(I probably can't even pronounce "crap" right then).

Cerberus

The middle one sounds more like /khR/.

Hehe.

I think perhaps the k is actually different from English as well.

David Wallace

Really? A k is a k, surely?

Cerberus

02:21

It is a bit aspirated in English, like p and t at the beginning of a syllable. And that aspiration is amplified by the R somehow.

David Wallace

So you don't aspirate K? That seems odd. I don't know if I can do that, other than by turning it into G.

Cerberus

Dutchmen often fail to properly aspirate t/k/p in English, which is part of the typical Dutch accent.

David Wallace

I have difficulty distinguishing Dutch accents from South African accents. I need to listen more to them both.

I'm uploading another attempt. Thinking about the K now, instead of the UY.

Cerberus

Yay!

Hmm I don't know, now it sounds a bit like /kxR/ instead of /kR/. The R is still correct.

I guess the transition from k to R is difficult for you.

Probably because R is so alien to you.

David Wallace

Yeah, maybe.

Hey, I had a thought, while looking around Amco's web site.

Cerberus

02:31

Oh?

David Wallace

I'm sure he would be delighted if you left a message in his guest book (knjiga gostiju). He reads English OK.

Cerberus

All right, sure.

David Wallace

Most of the other messages there are from relatives of ours.

And while you're on his site, "sljedecih 10 slika" means "next 10 pictures", in case you missed them.

Cerberus

Posted.

David Wallace

And I really need to help him get his character sets sorted out. All the non-ASCII characters are coming out completely wrong.

Cerberus

02:38

Yeah.

I see that a lot on many websites.

Even ones as professional as the Trésor de la Langue Française.

David Wallace

Super! Ta!

Cerberus

Now it's bed time.

Have a great ehm afternoon!

David Wallace

OK, good night. Thank you for the comments about my accent and videography.

Cerberus

You picked some of the hardest Dutch sounds all in one word.

David Wallace

I was rising to your challenge - you said you'd never met anyone who wasn't Dutch who could say UY.

Or something like that.

Cerberus

02:41

Well, if I have to be completely honest, your pronunciation of the whole word sounded quite foreign, though clearly intelligible.

David Wallace

OK, well as I said before, that's probably as good as I'm likely to get.

Cerberus

Heh.

If I trained you, especially the kr part, I'm sure you could get better.

And your pronunciation did resemble a certain Dutch accent, which is alas not mine.

David Wallace

I think my next video might be "fish and chips" (to demonstrate that I am not Australian), or possibly "oh my God" (to demonstrate that I am not American).

Cerberus

Hehe.

Yeah, you should do that, and then give your best shot at the Australian and American pronunciations.

David Wallace

I don't think @KitFox believed me when I said that Americans saying God sounds to me like Guard.

Cerberus

02:44

Hehe.

They sound like Gad to me.

Actually, no, like Guard.

David Wallace

Yes, but your "Gad" would sound like my "Guard", but possibly a little shorter.

Cerberus

A long ah or æh sound.

David Wallace

And to me, "fox" just sounds rude.

Cerberus

Haha because it sounds like fucks?

David Wallace

Well, I wasn't going to say it out loud, but yes.

I have a very "back" pronunciation of a short U.

Cerberus

02:48

Hmm yes I see.

That may sound Commonwealth to me (though not RP).

David Wallace

OK, one more video, just to amuse you.

Cerberus

Yay!

I see it downloading.

Done.

David Wallace

Will you post a link to it in the ELU chat, so that KitFox will find it?

Cerberus

Sure! Sounds great. Except that you pronounced the second t in tomatoes in the American accent...

dropbox.com/s/w4ry4ifpfypoj4z/tomatoes.wmv

You can give this link to people.

I can't guarantee that I won't move your videos at some point in the future, though, and then the link won't work any more.

David Wallace

Oh, you mean I should have said "tomaydoes", with a D?

Cerberus

02:55

Yeah.

David Wallace

Is that bedder?

Cerberus

Dowloading...

Great!

Sounds very authentic to my foreign ear.

David Wallace

OK, give me the link so I can tease the Foxy Kitty some time?

Cerberus

dropbox.com/s/5dcsqwz9ahtc7c9/tomatoes2.wmv

David Wallace

Thanks.

Cerberus

03:01

In case you want to show people other videos, I can't post links when I'm not there, hehe. If you get your own Dropbox account, you can post your own files and do cool stuff. All you have to do then to post a file is put it in a certain folder on your PC, and it will be automatically uploaded.

Then right-click on the file, and click "get link".

You can also share a file or folder only with a specific person. If you share a folder, all files you two put in it are automatically synchronized across computers.

David Wallace

Hmm, that's something I might try.

Can I still use your dropbox some time later, for giving you some photos of Amco's artworks?

Cerberus

Hmm I think I set that link to only accept videos.

David Wallace

OK, never mind. When I'm ready, I could start a room here on SE for you and me, and put a whole lot there.

Or get my own dropbox.

Or use some other site. Too many options, really.

Cerberus

Okay, now it accepts images, audio files, and documents too.

And videos.

@DavidWallace I highly recommend Dropbox.

David Wallace

What an open-minded wee dropbox it is.

Cerberus

03:10

It is the best uploading/sharing/whatever application ever.

@DavidWallace I use Filestork to accept the files, which in turn passes them on to Dropbox (for which Dropbox asked me to give explicit permission).

David Wallace

So I need both?

Cerberus

I used Filestork only because Dropbox normally can't receive files from someone who doesn't have Dropbox.

David Wallace

Oh, OK.

Cerberus

So you wouldn't need anything else if you had Dropbox.

David Wallace

Assuming you're the only person who wants to give me files.

Cerberus

03:12

You may not even need to install the desktop application (which is the best thing since sliced bread btw).

David Wallace

That's good, because after sliced bread, it was all downhill.

Cerberus

I know right.

First the Internet, and now this.

David Wallace

So if two people share a dropbox, is it hosted at some central location, or is it synchronised across the two computers?

Cerberus

All three.

The two computers synchronize with the Dropbox server.

David Wallace

Magic!

Cerberus

03:15

So you can access the file from any web browser at any computer (as long as you have your Dropbox password).

David Wallace

Or sufficiently advanced technology. I've heard they're indistinguishable.

Cerberus

And you can make a public link to any file in any folder (as I did), which can be accessed online by anyone without the password.

Yup, it's magicology.

David Wallace

Fun for the whole family.

Cerberus

Yeah!

Try it, and you'll love it.

Do you regularly back-up your important files on line?

David Wallace

I really only have one important file. There are three copies - one on my home PC, one on my laptop, and one on a flash drive.

Cerberus

03:18

Are these three devices ever in the same building?

David Wallace

If my house burns down while I'm asleep, it's possible that all three could be destroyed, yes.

Cerberus

And how large is the file?

And is it highly confidential?

David Wallace

about 10MB.

Oh, not highly.

Cerberus

Then just install Dropbox and drag the file into the C:\Dropbox folder on your computer.

Encrypt it first if you're scared Dropbox might be evil (which they aren't: they are very respectable and everybody uses them).

Note also that Dropbox will let you restore an older version of the file if any change occurs in it, up to 30 days in the past.

David Wallace

Haha, being evil won't help them that much.

Cerberus

03:21

No?

David Wallace

Actually, that could be great for my technical reviewers.

Cerberus

The version control?

David Wallace

No, the whole idea really. The version control wouldn't be THAT helpful to me.

Cerberus

(The paid version probably has more than 30 days, I would expect it to be unlimited.)

Ah OK.

David Wallace

Sorry, I'm really just thinking out loud.

Cerberus

03:23

That is allowed.

David Wallace

I'd still want to keep the most up-to-date copy on my laptop, because I work on it on the train, and I don't have mobile internet access on it.

Cerberus

The free version of Dropbox starts with 2 GB space, but I have been able to crank it up to 24 GB.

David Wallace

Then I could synch it every day when I get near my modem at home.

I'm sure 2GB will be plenty for my purposes.

Cerberus

Because the laptop doesn't have internet access?

Ah.

David Wallace

I think I said that three comments ago.

Cerberus

03:24

Yes.

I ehm mislooked.

David Wallace

You're tired. You should go to bed.

Cerberus

Yeah.

David Wallace

Don't pretend I don't know what time it is there.

Cerberus

Thanks for your recordings, and good luck with DB!

stops pretending

Bai!

David Wallace

Cheers. Thanks for the feedback on Cruyff.

Bye.

Cerberus

03:25

poof

Stack Exchange

05:39

0

Q: Determining my native language

The other day I was filling out a form where I had to state my native language and I simply couldn't seem to find an answer to that question. I guess it had never come across me, but I simply had never thought about what my native language was. You see, my first language, or rather the one that m...

native-language

Stack Exchange

10:34

Alenanno has added an event to this room's schedule.

Alenanno

11:58

Hey @Cerberus

Cerberus

12:40

Hi.

Alenanno

13:34

@Cerberus I'm back lol... :)

Cerberus

@Alenanno What a coincidence, so am I!

Alenanno

Ahah

Cerberus

So the meeting will be in two hours?

Alenanno

Yes!

:)

It might be just me and you

ahah

Cerberus

Haha.

Exciting!

Alenanno

13:38

:D

Alenanno

13:55

@Cerberus I went to bed really late yesterday.

Hey @Gigili

Gigili

Hi!

Alenanno

How are you?

Gigili

Fine, thanks.

Alenanno

:)

That's good!

Alenanno

14:17

Oh lol, she went away without saying anything?

Cerberus

14:48

@Alenanno How late?

@Gigili Hello!

Alenanno

@Cerberus I was in bed at 4:00... sooner than you though :P

Cerberus

Hehe yes.

But that is late for you.

Alenanno

Am I a super-traditionalist in your imagination?

lol

Cerberus

Because you usually go to bed earlier than I do?

Alenanno

Ah ok :P

Cerberus

14:52

I'm not sure how that is traditionalist.

Alenanno

Admit it, that is how you view most italians. :)

Cerberus

15:12

Not at all! Only some.

Alenanno

:P

Cerberus

I know you have relatively high church attendance.

I think.

But I also know most younger people are not very traditional.

Alenanno

I think the world is never black or white. I disagree with both of them on some things.

:)

Cerberus

Such as?

I am aesthetically traditional, socially somewhere in between.

Alenanno

Usually young people think the church sucks as a whole. But many priests inside are "different" from the usual stereotype. They are not many, as far as I know, but luckily there are. There is a famous one, always being interviewed and he's basically revolutionary in his thoughts. Unfortunately he's very old.

Cerberus

15:26

Sure, there are nice people everywhere.

Alenanno

But then, now and then, you hear on the news or read in newspapers statements made by the church that I think they could avoid.

Cerberus

Such as?

Alenanno

I don't know now

sorry, I was hanging out the washing

:D

Why does it say "linguistics meeting going on right now"?

There are still 20 minutes left

to the start

Cerberus

Hmm odd.

Where does it say that?

Alenanno

Main site

Weird

Cerberus

15:40

Oh, I see.

Alenanno

here it's right

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/1336/lgwstks?tab=schedule

15 minutes left. And it's just us... Well, let's use this chance to do something anyway. :) We'll think about this when we'll be a graduated site.

Cerberus

May that time come soon!

Alenanno

Yeah! :)

4 minutes!

Transcript for