lɪŋˈgwɪstɪks

Stack Exchange

04:35

0

Q: In which varieties of English is it common to front predicates as in "Bought a nice house, he did."?

In which varieties of English is it common to front predicates as in the sentence "Bought a nice house, he did."? In which pragmatic contexts is this done in these varieties?

syntax

Alenanno

13:24

Hi @Cerberus and @Gigili

Gigili

Hi

Alenanno

What's up? :)

Gigili

Not much.

Want to make a Sorbet.

Alenanno

13:43

Oh lemon?

Alenanno

13:54

I'm going to eat, later :)

Cerberus

baking bread

Stack Exchange

16:15

0

Q: Tags "syntax" and "word-order"

It was argued on a question once that syntax and word-order are not the same thing, yet I see these tags used both in the same questions. What do the community think about this? If they are the same thing, then we should remove one. If they are not the same thing, then they shouldn't always ...

discussion tags

Alenanno

17:23

Yo guys

@Gigili @Cerberus

Gigili

Re:yo

Alenanno

:)

What are you doing?

Gigili

I'm playing a game right at the moment

You?

Alenanno

Nothing... what game?

Gigili

17:39

Spiral Knights

Kamil Stachowski

17:50

hello

thanks, alenanno

Alenanno

Hello Kamil!

Welcome to the chat

Before you talk, I need to ask something

Kamil Stachowski

ty

yes?

Alenanno

why do you want to delete the answer?

It's not a bad one

Kamil Stachowski

i want to delete the answer asking you to invite me to a chat

because it's sort of off-topic :)

Alenanno

Aaaah

I got it

Kamil Stachowski

17:51

sorry, i'm new; are there private rooms here?

Alenanno

Only one, for moderators

the others are all open

Kamil Stachowski

oh, ok, anyway

what i wanted to say is this:

i appreciate your editing activity and the effort you're clearly putting into it

Alenanno

but? :D

Kamil Stachowski

(yeah, i'm thinking how to put it:)

but as an author who signs his comments with his actual real name,

i feel insecure to know that anyone can edit them

and what i'd like to ask you is that

Alenanno

(let me know when you're done so I know when to answer)

Kamil Stachowski

17:54

(sure)

you try to give a little more freedom to people, or me in particular

it's nice to have a uniform forum where all questions and answers are well-formed and make sense

but people have different opinions and sometimes think that certain remarks are more off-topic than others might perceive them to be

just let them be

it's not too bad if something is slightly off-topic

plenty of interesting topics and observations happen by accident

done

Alenanno

Ok I'll try to address the various points

Kamil Stachowski

(deleted the invite-asking comment)

Alenanno

You can post an observation in your answer, it will add some value, if it's closely related to what you just said. Like "oh for example I'm a native speaker in (language) and what I just said in my answer is present there too"

But there are places for the different kinds of information

It's not that you can't post a related question. You can but not in all situations and not in all places.

For example, you could say "As I said in (this other answer-link), bla bla"

but not just a single line linking a question like that. If you tell me what you meant to link specifically, we can re-add it

this is hard to explain eheh

so we'll pause this for now

About editing.

Kamil Stachowski

(I already re-added it. It was referred to inside the rest of the answer.)

Alenanno

Many people asked that before you (not just to me)

but I can't

My job as a moderator is to keep this place uniformed and cleaned

Trust me, I'm not doing it against you.

I do it to everyone, regardless who it is

As I do the same in other sites.

Kamil Stachowski

18:01

(done?)

Alenanno

Wait :P

Kamil Stachowski

kk

Alenanno

You said "but people have different opinions and sometimes think that certain remarks are more off-topic than others might perceive them to be", but that's the point. It's not just my opinion. I'm applying rules. I'm enforcing them.

Kamil Stachowski

no, i meant that in your opinion a remark might be more off-topic than in the author's

Alenanno?

Alenanno

I wrote I was AFK but the chat didn't send the message

Kamil Stachowski

18:10

oh

Alenanno

Now your link looks better

than before

Kamil Stachowski

good :)

Alenanno

You can link your answer directly if you wish

You want that?

Kamil Stachowski

nay, that's fine

coming back to the discussion,

look, i'll put it this way:

i don't feel good with this level of "invasive" editing, and

i'm considering leaving the forum altogether (it's not a threat! it's an information)

i suppose i might not be the only one, even if i'm maybe the first to tell you that in the face

Alenanno

I don't remember

Kamil Stachowski

18:15

i don't want to leave because i like it

Alenanno

but I'd ask you to consider the decision.

Kamil Stachowski

what i mean is that by being too strict you discourage potential users

are you the only mod?

Alenanno

Nope, we're 3

Kamil Stachowski

right; you seem to be more active than the other two

Alenanno

But they'll confirm what I'm telling you. :)

Kamil Stachowski

18:16

maybe you should just give yourself a little break

well fine then

if that's how you want to moderate, good

Alenanno

It's not me.

That's the point.

I'd like it if you stayed, I don't like losing users.

Kamil Stachowski

what? they forced you?

Alenanno

No, I mean that I don't make the rules, I just apply them.

If you don't like an edit

you can always ask here

and we'll discuss about it

Kamil Stachowski

i suppose you don't like losing users, and i don't want to leave because i like the site

Alenanno

or in Meta

Kamil Stachowski

18:18

that's why i came to talk

well, maybe it would do everyone good if the rules were made a little less strict?

look, when you edit somebody other's post, it's an indirect way of telling them that you know better

Alenanno

That depends. They're not that strict... At the beginning you might find the editing weird, many do, you're not the only one, but trust me, you'll see it won't do your answers any harm.

@KamilStachowski Absolutely not! :D I edit many answers and I don't always know everything.

Trust me, I'm not saying I know more than others.

Kamil Stachowski

i'm not implying you're a smart ass

all i

'm saying is that people don't like being corrected

Alenanno

I'm not correcting your info, I'm correcting some uses of the system. If you make a typo, I'll fix it. But the best thing is that you can do the same with me.

If I make a typo, you can (and must) correct my answer.

Kamil Stachowski

typos are fine, i can be only grateful for your correcting them in my posts

Alenanno

I'll give you an example.

Look at these edits

meta.linguistics.stackexchange.com/posts/263/revisions

The second user is another mod.

By the way, all of the users with a ♦ next to their name are moderators.

Kamil Stachowski

18:24

we're not getting anywhere this way

it is my belief that

by being less strict you can attract more users, while by being less so you can make people go away after a short time

it's obviously totally up to you to agree with that or not

Alenanno

How should I be less strict? Make an example.

Kamil Stachowski

sure, a second

let's take your last edit in my post here: linguistics.stackexchange.com/posts/1498/revisions

Alenanno

Yes

Kamil Stachowski

you corrected the technical bit of how i linked to the other article

and that's just fine with me; i didn't know that's how links are supposed to be put, you corrected it, great

Alenanno

Wait, give me 5 minutes. I'll be back.

Kamil Stachowski

18:29

but at the same time you corrected my sentence, and that i'm not fine with at all

kk, i'll write my thoughts in the meantime

Now, that sentence of mine wasn't rude, it wasn't offensive, it wasn't misleading, it wasn't wrong in any obvious way. Why change it? Why not let me have it my way?

You changed it to something else, which isn't exactly the way I

'd put it (I'd write gave rather than wrote).

It's not so much the specific edit that I object to (apart from the one time when it actually changed the meaning), but the general fact that my sentences are changed.

Alenanno

I changed it from "wrote" to "gave".

Kamil Stachowski

I wrote it and signed it. Comment it and sign your comment but don't change my words.

Alenanno

I changed your wording because now it's a complete sentence, written with some formatting and that doesn't have a "?." at the end anymore.

There is something your missing.

Kamil Stachowski

what is it?

Alenanno

The point in time you post your answer, it's not exactly your answer anymore. It's a public resource. Did you read the FAQ?

At a certain point I wrote "The Q&A sites are not forums. What are they, then? Check the About page."

Kamil Stachowski

18:36

nope

my bad

Alenanno

About

Especially this:

That asterisk is us.

We're also a wiki, so edited is something given, if you understand what I mean.

Kamil Stachowski

ok

is there a set of rules for mods somewhere?

Alenanno

I think they are the same for everyone. If you want to complain to someone in "the upper-floors" I can call someone here.

Kamil Stachowski

no need

or wait, maybe there is

if i get to get notifications every time someone edits my posts, i'll be fine

Alenanno

If you just want it to immediately revert any edit, it's not a good practice.

Kamil Stachowski

18:42

i don't necessarily want to revert

i just want to have control over where my name appears

without having to manually check all my posts every couple of hours

most of the changes you made to my posts, i accepted

i just don't like it that i have to specifically look for them

Alenanno

Someone once asked "Can I prevent others from editing my question?"

Kamil Stachowski

what was the answer to that?

Alenanno

The answer to that is no.

Or this one:

Kamil Stachowski

i thought so

Alenanno

"Yes, you can. It involves writing the question so well nobody needs to edit anything."

There are many kind of edits

some are trivial

others are not.

Kamil Stachowski

18:46

if stackexchange wants to be the asterisk in the diagram above, than there's no way to stop edits

Alenanno

Usually trivial edits are not that useful.

@KamilStachowski Exactly.

Actually edits are encouraged by badges

Kamil Stachowski

yep

but what i'm asking for is control over text i sign

Alenanno

Such as the Copy Editor badge

Kamil Stachowski

in the humblest possible form, i.e. notification that something's been changed

Alenanno

Ok, but there is a limit.

For example

Kamil Stachowski

18:47

?

Alenanno

if someone hates you and starts editing a certain post of yours as a sort of revenge

we can lock your post and ban the user if necessary

but you can't block normal edits, they're supposed to be there.

Kamil Stachowski

ok, what if someone starts mailciously editing my posts after i will have stopped using the site? i won't know and won't be able to report that, so the wrong text will stay forever with my name under it

that's the kind of thing i fear

Alenanno

Don't worry

Dan O'Day

@KamilStachowski Note that when someone edits a post their name also appears to the left of yours.

Alenanno

even if it happens and we don't see it

it will be registered

We know who edit.

They'll see you as the author and them as the editors.

Completely separated.

Exactly like @DanODay said.

If multiple users edit, you can always see the revision history. Nothing is hidden.

Kamil Stachowski

18:51

just a second

Alenanno

This is what you'll see under the answer:

Kamil Stachowski

i know, i know

Alenanno

Kamil Stachowski

lol, you're quick at screenshoting, Alenanno :)

Alenanno

If you click on "16 mins ago", you'll see what I changed. So people won't confuse you for someone else.

Oh eheheh :D

Kamil Stachowski

18:52

i know

Alenanno

:)

Kamil Stachowski

i know everything is on the table and anyone can check

but let me finish the next sentence, pls

Alenanno

Go ahead.

Kamil Stachowski

but this is the internet; people google a name, open twenty sites and when they find the right post, they read every second word from it, without bothering to check what this particular site works like and whether editors are here more or less zealous

that's how false impressions arise, and that's what i'm afraid of

Alenanno

Ok, but you're not alone here.

Kamil Stachowski

18:56

it's not that something's wrong with the site

Alenanno

I'll give you an example

Ok?

Kamil Stachowski

but i'd feel way better if i got the notification, just that much

go on

Alenanno

Let's say you stop using the site

you never check again

someone edits your post and ruins it.

It's not going away unnoticed.

The reason is simple

every time you edit a post, the question will be bumped to the front page

this means it will receive many visits

surely some of this visits will be regular users

which will check the answer and revert the edit

or fix it

and flag it for moderator attention if necessary.

Kamil Stachowski

all right

Alenanno

So, the risk of your real reputation being ruined is really low

If you want to avoid it at 100%

You could ask for deleting your user account

I suppose

Kamil Stachowski

18:59

i don't want that; i told you i like the site and want to stay

Alenanno

That's good news. :)

By the way, feel free to drop by in chat anytime

there's always someone to talk to.

Kamil Stachowski

(yeah, i forgot that i can use a nick as something in between staying with my name and leaving altogether)

is it possible to talk to someone high up and ask for the notifications to

Alenanno

The settings I told you about didn't work?

Kamil Stachowski

be sent for edits too, not just comments and answers?

it works but apparently not for edits

Alenanno

Let me check if someone else asked before you.

Uhm, not sure if there is something. Go to the Meta StackOverflow site and browse there. That is the Meta site for all of the SE sites, so maybe someone asked the same thing you did. Try searching there.

Kamil Stachowski

19:04

ok, i will

thanks for your time :)

Alenanno

Anytime!

I'm here also for that.

If you have other questions, you can come here or use our Meta site.

Kamil Stachowski

4

Q: Notification on edited answers

If I edit my answer on SO, after this answer was accepted by the owner of the question, will the owner receive a notification of any sort?

support editing accepted-answer notifications

Alenanno

That's slightly different. It's about answer/question users.

Kamil Stachowski

hm, that would seem like i should be getting notifications for edits

can you edit one of my posts right now pls?

Alenanno

What do you want to check?

Kamil Stachowski

19:10

if i get a notification

Alenanno

Done.

Kamil Stachowski

well, nope, i don't seem to be getting anything

Alenanno

Keep browsing that site, if you don't find anything, register there and ask a question about it. :)

Kamil Stachowski

right. see you later then!

nice chatting :)

Alenanno

See you!

:)

Kamil Stachowski

19:18

sry again

Alenanno

For what?

Kamil Stachowski

I just found out i can't change my screen name

Dan O'Day

@KamilStachowski It looks like you just did

Kamil Stachowski

well funny, so it does

but not in the forum

and i actually got an error message

Alenanno

What did it say?

Kamil Stachowski

19:21

it said i can't change my name more often than every 30 days, so the next time i can is some 28 days from now

Alenanno

Oh... well, then I guess that's all you have to do... :)

Kamil Stachowski

anyway, i was wondering if you as a mod can do it

ah, ok

Alenanno

Oh, let me check.

Kamil Stachowski

ty

Alenanno

Yes I can.

Kamil Stachowski

19:23

fantastic

Alenanno

Give me your new name and I'll paste it.

Kamil Stachowski

can you please change it to "Kamil S." and I'll stop whining?

Alenanno

Ahah ok. :)

Do you want this to be changed to just this site or all of your SE accounts?

Kamil Stachowski

wonderful. thank you :)

all of them, if you can

Alenanno

Done. Check if it's done in all of them. Of course, this is a special occurrence, please don't ask us to change it every 2 weeks. :D

Kamil Stachowski

19:25

lol, i'm not going to

Alenanno

:D

Good. :P

Kamil Stachowski

i registered with stackoverflow a loong time ago with my nick

so when i found out about this site, it automatically transferred my nick

Alenanno

Yes, sites are associated. :)

Kamil Stachowski

which i changed to my real name to find out two days later i'll feel more secure without it

Alenanno

You got the automatic 100 rep?

Kamil Stachowski

19:26

i did

but now i'm fine

Alenanno

Perfect!

Kamil Stachowski

if i desperately want to change it again, it'll wait a month

thanks again and see you later

:)

Alenanno

You're welcome!

Bye!

Kamil Stachowski

bye

Alenanno

I'll go too

Later, everyone.

Dan O'Day

19:35

adios

Cerberus

21:56

@Ale: Is this correct?:

1

Q: Attributive and predicative position of an adjective

I have some difficulty understanding the position of adjectives. In English I have to put the adjective before the referred name (e.g., I'm an Italian man). In some languages (as Italian or Ancient Greek), the adjective (or another grammatical element) can have two positions: attributive: "gli...

nouns adjectives sentence construction

attributive: "gli uomini buoni" (the set of men who are good).
predicative: "i buoni uomini" (the men who are inherently good: all the men are good).

Is the difference in topicality really this clear?

Hi!

Alenanno

Hey

Let me read. :P

Cerberus

Shoa.

Alenanno

I don't understand his examples ahah

:D

I mean, the translation

Cerberus

He seems to mean that "buoni" is defining/restrictive if placed after "uomini", while it is expanding if placed before.

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