The Echo Chamber

Rory Alsop

11:07

@AJHenderson lol at rambunctious

Rory Alsop

11:20

@JustSteveKing In addition to @AJHenderson's comments, it is actually a very welcoming site to those who have a quick read of the rules, but not so much for those who ask questions which a 30 second read of the Help page would have indicated were off topic

"pleze give teh coadz" is right out :-)

AJ Henderson

14:41

hey @tohecz

tohecz

@AJHenderson hello there! how do you do?

AJ Henderson

pretty good

looking forward to finishing closing on the house asap. Wife has already started packing and it's gotten me very excited about moving

tohecz

you move to an altogethher new place?

AJ Henderson

same general area, actually a little closer to work

but moving from a 1000sqft apartment to an 1850 sq ft house with a 600sq ft garage

so about 2050 usable sq ft

and with it getting colder, the idea of a heated garage to park in instead of a cold parking lot is pretty attractive

tohecz

damn, sqft, Google, where are you? :D

AJ Henderson

14:49

haha, yeah, I have no idea what that converts to

tohecz

it's approximately 11 sqft per sqm

AJ Henderson

yeah, 190ish sq meters

for the 2050

tohecz

well, 1000 sqft is quite large already, no? I mean, I have like 750

but well, house is a house

AJ Henderson

the problem is baby, between our bedroom, our computer room, our theater and our kitchen, there is no room left

and having 3 bathrooms instead of 1 will be nice

not to mention being able to make alterations

tohecz

ah well, most apt here have 2 bedrooms, living room ( = living room + study) and kitchen (= kichen + dining room)

and what in the world is a "theatre"?

AJ Henderson

14:52

tv room

tohecz

ah ok

living room :D

AJ Henderson

big screen tv, surround sound system

but all we ever use it for is watching TV

tohecz

the thing I've never quite needed, but you're a sound geek, so I understand :D

AJ Henderson

yeah, they aren't that expensive either if you know how to build them

I think I paid a grand total of about $800 for my surround system

and that's for a 7.1 system

tohecz

I would actually use a music hall, then couple hundred $$ and then I would get a grand, a Hammond organ, decent electric organ, and a Theremin, together with 2 guitars :)

AJ Henderson

14:55

starred for the theremin

tohecz

@AJHenderson well, I have 2.0 for my computer, and I can surely connect my piano speaker, which serves as a decent .1

btw, I have a dilemma: I own a Yamaha MSR100, and I'm considering whether I want to get a second one for stereo, or to upgrade to something better

AJ Henderson

thing is, we basically don't go to the movies anymore, we just wait for them to come out on bluray

because it is cheaper

and the quality at home is so good , it isn't worth the extra for going to the movies

tohecz

@AJHenderson but it ain't the fun of going to the cinema (well, I'm not a cinema guy, I prefer a nice concert)

AJ Henderson

I used to be a concert guy, I still like a really good concert, but I'm too easily distracted if the sound isn't perfect

the curse of being a sound guy

tohecz

@AJHenderson take the classical chamber concerts, there's no "sound" there :D

AJ Henderson

14:58

@tohecz true

but then room acoustics matter

and good orchestra + good venue = pricey

tohecz

@AJHenderson oh yeah, you have to choose well. I go to concerts in a small church here, and they're really fine. The piano is just perfect under the fingers of the pianinsts, and they are usually very good.

AJ Henderson

and that's the part of why I like mixing. The one sure way to know I'll like a concert is to be the guy on the mixer with a decent band

because mixing doesn't detract from my ability to enjoy the music as long as the group is actually good

tohecz

@AJHenderson :)

however, mixing works the best if the mixer guy knows the band really well, doesn't it?

AJ Henderson

@tohecz ehh, don't need to know the band real well necessarily so much as the style

it certainly doesn't hurt to know the band well, but a good sound guy should be able to play by ear pretty well

@tohecz I'm not that familiar with the MSR100

tohecz

brb my PhD boss wants a coffee

tohecz

15:29

@AJHenderson back. Well, the point is, it's a nice well-playing 100W combo, but it costs like $300 new, and I didn't manage to find a used one that I could buy here.

tohecz

15:45

What happened here?

AJ Henderson

I realized I was very confused

so most of my posts were irrelevant

I missed the transition from keyboard to speaker

tohecz

well, I go through a mixer

AJ Henderson

yeah, but I thought you were talking about getting a second keyboard and missed that you were talking about a second speaker

tohecz

ah yeah

AJ Henderson

then I finally searched for the product and realized "oh, wow, I'm confused"

tohecz

15:47

well, 2nd keyboard is on the list as well, but that's already almost decided which one be it (but still far from actually getting it)

AJ Henderson

I'm not a big fan of powered speakers

a bit cheaper up front potentially, but maintenance and upgrades are too limited

tohecz

MSR100 is a powered speaker that costs like $300. The question is that I have now three options: (1) I get a 2nd one for $300. (2) I sell the one I have for ~$250 and get a pair of another (better?) powered speakers. (3) I sell the one I have and I get something else

AJ Henderson

cause like my path would be, buy a single channel amp and a speaker. By a second speaker when I get a chance to have two sources driven off one feed, just for better sound distribution, then buy a second amp when I get the chance for transitioning it to stereo

tohecz

@AJHenderson so you suggest a rack power amplifier and non-powered speakers?

AJ Henderson

and then if the amp or a speaker dies, I'm out half as much

where as if a powered speaker dies, you throw out perfectly good hardware with the bad

tohecz

15:50

@AJHenderson or you get a costly repair :-/

AJ Henderson

or have to do a more complicated repair

the only situation I've seen that I like powered speakers is the ultraportable market

where you need compact size for limited applications

tohecz

well, I have the rack, mixer, ... anyways now

AJ Henderson

yeah, for a home setup, I'd always go with a distinct amp and unpowered speaker

tohecz

@AJHenderson well, my point is, the mono piano just sounds bad, no matter what.

AJ Henderson

unless I was planning on using them away from home sometimes

tohecz

15:52

I much prefer playing with headphones just now because of that.

@AJHenderson well, I do plan that, but as I say, got the rack anyways, so there's no difference between amount of stuff in the two options

AJ Henderson

honestly though, even with stereo, you'll still likely hear more detail with headphones than even a stereo image from speakers

@tohecz oh, you have a portable rack

tohecz

@AJHenderson but it'll be much better (well, I hope so)

AJ Henderson

gotcha

tohecz

@AJHenderson yep, 8U, on wheels

AJ Henderson

yeah, especially if your keyboards support good spacing

tohecz

15:54

@AJHenderson "spacing"?

samsontech.com/samson/products/accessories/racks/srk8

AJ Henderson

makes good use of stereo image

tohecz

what do you mean by "spacing" here?

AJ Henderson

not all keyboards are created equal in terms of making good use of stereo

actually, the other thing that might help more would be a crossover

and a woofer

tohecz

@AJHenderson ah well, I've got a higher middle class one :)

Rory Alsop

@AJHenderson I go to few nowadays. Only big ones - festivals have terrible acoustics, but I enjoy the experience with friends. That said, I'm going to see Slash in a couple of weeks at the Glasgow Hydro - lovely acoustics there. Best big music venue in Scotland

AJ Henderson

15:56

especially for piano sounds, a good woofer or maybe even a subwoofer can be pretty key

tohecz

the point is, the MSR100 is particularly made for pianos, so the sound it gives is quite decent, just a bit flat

AJ Henderson

@tohecz ah

Rory Alsop

@tohecz I still have some old powered wharfedales, but now I go full unpowered 7.1 in the living room and my music room

(plus a wall of Marshalls/Laneys :-)

AJ Henderson

@RoryAlsop nice, yeah, I tried going to a festival as an attendee once, I ended up jumping on board with the crew partway through the festival because I couldn't help but get involved with the festival. Granted, most of my friends that do festivals also work them, so...

Rory Alsop

@AJHenderson I do prefer the artist side, rather than the muddy punter side :-)

AJ Henderson

15:58

@RoryAlsop yeah, half the fun of festivals is working with interesting people

tohecz

@RoryAlsop cool

well, how does it go with prices for powered/unpowered?

(if by "unpowered" it is meant "unpowered + amplifier")

Rory Alsop

@tohecz The wharfedales were nice, but I think they were very expensive - they are now 32 years old, so I have no idea on cost. The 7.1 in the living room was about £1400 for the amp and another £2000 for speakers

@tohecz yes

tohecz

@RoryAlsop well, my piano has 2.0 output, and it's what interests me the most. Even if get a second piano, I won't really consider it 4.0, would I? :D

so what I need is a good stereo solution with at least 2x100W, maybe 2x200W

(btw, you peoople, you really like driving your neigbors crazy, right? :D )

AJ Henderson

@tohecz actually, that's the other reason I can't wait to be in the house

I'll actually be able to turn up my 7.1 system

right now I have to keep it way too quiet

I haven't taken it past about 1/6 power

tohecz

@AJHenderson :D

well, in a 12floor apt building, you think I use 100W? :D

Rory Alsop

16:08

@tohecz I am in a detached house in the country. I can happily run 4 150W guitar amps through 4 4x12 cabs :-)

AJ Henderson

I have a 1000 Watt receiver and it feels underused

Rory Alsop

In my old band I had 12kW - but we played loads of big halls and outdoor gigs

this was way up north Scotland. Now I play in cities, mostly

and for the festivals, we can play with minimal backline as everything goes through the huge stage PA

tohecz

@RoryAlsop where in Scotland?

AJ Henderson

@RoryAlsop that be lots o power

tohecz

@RoryAlsop sure, that's the standard thingy

Rory Alsop

16:10

@AJHenderson yarr - we used to be able to run up our speaker stacks and we'd end up about 20 feet off the ground

AJ Henderson

@RoryAlsop interestingly, one of the festivals I work with goes through marshall stacks like candy

Rory Alsop

Now we play some gigs where we just take the XLR from our pedals straight into house PA

AJ Henderson

they were using tube head units and went through like 70 of them in a week

Rory Alsop

and just use the wedges

@AJHenderson wow - how?

AJ Henderson

8 stages

hot days

basically each stage managed to burn one out a day

I mean, it was just blown tubes

tohecz

16:11

@AJHenderson gosh

Rory Alsop

@AJHenderson just tube replacement required though, right?

ah yes

AJ Henderson

but they didn't have time to replace them on site

so they just swapped them out

tohecz

(I don't feel familiar here now :-/ )

AJ Henderson

they actually were using on stage amps for guitarists though, but I think they were just running clean for whatever came out of the pedal boards

I was actually on video for that festival though

so I never looked that close

Rory Alsop

@AJHenderson Which means you should be able to run them relatively cool - theoretically :-)

tohecz

16:18

anyways, you seem to try to convince me that unpowered solution is better

but then it would use a cross-over and a woofer, together with the stereo, right?

AJ Henderson

16:45

@tohecz well, you have lots of options there too.

I'd probably start with two midrange speakers then add woofers as I could

but you could also do a tweeter and a woofer, then add a second tweeter for stereo

and then add a second woofer if you deem it needed

tohecz

17:23

@AJHenderson that's the problem, it's all too complicated :p

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