@GingerIndustries For "Me and some people were doing a thing and a thing," I think I'd say something like ta ma a maki pas nai a nai, but that's a bit loose of a translation. (Also, I can't remember if we decided a should be prefix rather than infix.)

a is infix IIRC

prefix "and" sounds impractical

if you want a long shopping list, you have to say a a a a a a a apples bread cereal bananas chips oranges milk pie papayas ...

Agreed. But maybe let's move this to the Katlani room?

I just realized I haven't checked in on the Katlani room in like a week D:

← 7 messages moved from The Nineteenth Byte

← 1 message moved from The Nineteenth Byte

Why am I here?

→ 2 messages moved to The Nineteenth Byte

@Adám the eternal question

@DLosc Ooh, I really love this idea

@taRadvylfsriksushilani ah yes, mind-reading pronouns

Or just a way to say "a thing, which I'm about to discuss in more detail"

When I'm speaking English, I'll sometimes use "this" in reference to an idea I'm about to bring up. 80% of the time, the other person will interrupt me to ask what I mean by "this." WAIT FIVE SECONDS AND I WILL TELL YOU. :P So yes, I think fyny could be useful.

Idea: An adjective which you can use to explicitly mark a noun as pasny/niny/fyny-able

Since I'm often confused as to what exactly the niny/pasny is referring to

is this room still active? I need to know whether to fix GingerBot or dump it in a shallow grave and walk away like I do with all my other projects

E.g., si kotsch [xyz] su y op. pat samsha, si niny su y bork

@GingerIndustries I don't think it's going to be active enough that GingerBot's worth continuing maintaining

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I'm going to try and fix the "push-randomly-breaks" issue but I'm just not going to add all the other shit I was going to add because it's not worth it ig

so you can still use GingerBot if you want

su y is kinda pointless in like 90% of situations, I think

si kotsh op means the same thing as si kotsh su y op, IIRC

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Yes

@taRadvylfsriksushilani but I like y

Yeah, we still need it. I was just realizing that my usage of y with su is usually pointless

@taRadvylfsriksushilani 1) kotsh, no c. 2) What's the pat samsha doing?

I'm thinking it's a sort of "in addition"

GingerBot's Katlani name is noguna floria makina

It could also sort of translate to "that (which) I add", I think

Which makes sense too

literally "ground plant machine"

So "ginger" in your name is confirmed to refer to the plant rather than the hair color?

@taRadvylfsriksushilani no, it's the hair color, but there's no word for that in Katlani

tshans vi [hair], I guess

@GingerIndustries but your pfp is of a white, not a ginger, cat

Hmm. We need words for hair, I guess

@taRadvylfsriksushilani That "that" would be a relative clause and thus ladi rather than pat. I'm not opposed to pat samsha, just trying to wrap my head around how it fits into the grammar.

@pxeger look it was the first cat I found okay?

I've been using pat [verb] as something similar to an infinitive

I'll try to get a ginger one

@taRadvylfsriksushilani In some contexts, I agree, but I don't think it should be a one-for-one equivalent.

What about samsha pat? "[I] add, that..."

I'm fine with ladi samsha too

@DLosc Oh, that could work too

I like that, actually

WR: makav (n): (single) hair

@DLosc Word makav added to queue.

And then makavi for "hair(s)" collectively

makavi subit: All of your hairs

I was trying to get thiscatdoesnotexist.com to give me a good ginger cat and I came across this

it's a flying cat I love it

aww

Looks like it has like...human shoulders

lol I didn't even notice it didn't have a proper cat body

You asked for a good ginger cat and it gave you a good ginger cat.

and then there's this creature

it's a Laffy Taffy kitty

WR: fasmao (n): Hand

@pxeger other than the large ear, is this good enough?

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word fasmao added to queue.

@pxeger one sec

"ginger cat" = o vi makavi krvina?

Or just o krvina, I reckon

WR: orilha (n): Ear

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word orilha added to queue.

BTW vi still isn't in the vocab doc

Are any prepositions there?

idk seems wrong to me

I don't want to add the prepositions section because I'm pretty sure it'd break gingerbot

@taRadvylfsriksushilani github.com/katlani/katlani/blob/main/vocab.md#prepositions

@taRadvylfsriksushilani tbh it can't get much more broken

now I'm not saying try it but still

ninja'd you :p

I thought the other weird cats were good but this one

this takes the cake

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I was really puzzled what you meant until I refreshed the vocab doc

PR: lait vy: Why? (lit. For what purpose?)

how's this?

wtf

@pxeger glad ya like it

Should kiso or putsho be "to request"?

I'm thinking putsho

@GingerIndustries cat hav no nose :(

@taRadvylfsriksushilani sy gust

@DLosc i'm sure it's fine

@taRadvylfsriksushilani surely we should have gitsho, postsho, putsho, patsho, hidsho, etc. for all the methods

I'm almost finished copying the whole transcript's WRs into the dictionary

@pxeger foka :P

@taRadvylfsriksushilani probably best you do that until I fix GB

something about my current PFP makes it too good to replace

Unless any of yall have a photo of a ginger cat that looks like my current PFP I'm keeping it

agaai (spicy) has an i at the end

Should I change it to agaa or agaait?

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Slight preference for agaa

Same

ni ktom ma o/

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I like agait

@DLosc \o

I think the aa is a major part of it though

@DLosc baia

Is pirishy a death, or the concept of death?

Honestly I support removing the word entirely

WR: kaizi (v): To look up or search for information, in general

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word kaizi added to queue.

(Since the old definition was a little oddly specific)

onioni on changing voda to refer to alcohol in general, rather than just vodka?

@taRadvylfsriksushilani sy gust

@PUSH

dalyi ends in an i

And ending with a y is almost as bad

GingerBot is just i don't even know

why does it break? what causes it? idfk man

@PUSH

e

@PUSH

@HALT

Halting

okay, I've added some debug code

WR: nini (n): Snow

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word nimi added to queue.

WR: ninibr (n): Snowstorm

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word ninibr added to queue.

Should we distinguish between seeing and looking, or hearing and listening?

E.g., we have nistaha (to look), and someone had proposed a word for "to see", but I'd been imagining nistaha as doing both

It's rarely necessary to distinguish between "seeing" and "making an effort to see"/"interpreting what you are seeing", IMO

And you can use words like kosisa (to try) if you need to say "look" specifically

Okay, less than half of the WRs are on the vocab.md lol

Okay, like a quarter of the nouns

WR: Holdor (n): Error

@Fmbalbuena Word Holdor added to queue.

Hodor

I'm thinking kahidai should be an adverb

Same with roga

And kosisa

Well, maybe kosisa should have a verb form too

WR: kosi (adv): Try (ktom kosi: to try to eat)

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word kosi added to queue.

WR: rogo (adv): Can (ktom rogo: to be able to eat)

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word rogo added to queue.

WR: kadi (adv): Should (ktom kadi ma: I should eat)

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word kadi added to queue.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I was going to say a noun shouldn't end in -i, but I suppose "snow" could be a collective noun of sorts and not take a plural. Or maybe nin is "snowflake" and nini is the plural, like makav/makavi for hair?

Ooh, good idea

Yeah, forgot about the -i thing

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Hm, interesting. I think I like this development.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Making a mistake and then successfully retconning it is the best ^_^

I also changed roga (v) to rogo (adv), a to o so that old sentences aren't ambiguous

WR: doz (adv): Must

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word doz added to queue.

WR: kadi (adv): Should

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word kadi added to queue.

Do we need all of kadi, doz, and imi?

Question: Should I still implement the "remove from queue" feature?

imi is for imperative, doz is more like "need to"

E.g., nistahi imi is "look", nistaha doz ka would just be "you need to look"/"you must look"

WR: zilo (adv): Already

What are scenarios where you would say ktom imi ka vs ktom doz ka vs ktom kadi ka? Is it just slightly decreasing levels of urgency?

@taRadvylfsriksushilani bot didn't like that one

imi is a command/telling someone to do something. doz and kadi aren't orders, they're just statements.

ktom doz ka isn't "I'm telling you to eat", it's "You have to eat (due to some rule, or the fact you'd starve, or something like that)"

And ktom kadi ka would just be like a suggestion

doz/kadi also differ considerably from imi when used in anything other than second person

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I get that, but in terms of the intent of the speaker they're very similar, no? Even in English, we use "must" (or "got to") to tell people what to do sometimes.

I think it's an important distinction, personally

Ok

And making imi and doz the same thing could be weird with first/third person

Like, "We have to go!" and "Let's go!" should not be the same

(fara doz makai! vs. fara imi maka!)

I say no

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I disagree (for languages in general), but we can keep the distinction in Katlani.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani why not?

Bye eand this contenido illegal characters.

Hmm, is that not a distinction common in other languages? I suppose we could use imi as "must" and drop doz

@GingerIndustries Seems like a lot of work for not too much gain

@taRadvylfsriksushilani joke's on you i'm doing it anyway

D:

:D

Merged vocab!

@taRadvylfsriksushilani you'd be right except I already did a lot of the work anyway and just disabled the code

@taRadvylfsriksushilani eh?

We now have more than 500 words

@taRadvylfsriksushilani yay!

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I don't really know. I know that imperative (and other verbal moods) can get a little complicated, at least in European languages. For example, in Koine Greek IIRC, you use the imperative to tell somebody to do something, but you (usually? always? don't recall) use the negated subjunctive to tell them not to do something. "Go" vs "you should not go."

@taRadvylfsriksushilani oHO BABY

@taRadvylfsriksushilani fosii!

i sure hope the bot doesn't break for some reason

Nearly 200 nouns

Nearly 100 verbs

hey look it's a language!

Nearly 100 adjectives

And a whole bunch of the rest :p

and 1 bot

we I love you @GingerBot

WR: oioi (intj): Uh oh!

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word oioi added to queue.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani so oio would be "look!"?

@GingerIndustries gus ma ama su @GingerBot

@DLosc :)

We should have words for different types of love

aww yall are too nice

WR: dzupiar (v): To love as a friend

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word dzupiar added to queue.

WR: satzipiar (v): To have deep respect for

fian dzupiar: Bromance

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word satzipiar added to queue.

Hm, what about some kind of three-way distinction based on status? One word for my love for my cat or child ("they're so cute"), one for a love for a friend ("we're equals"), one for a love for somebody superior ("I look up to them")

This room in a screenshot:

WR: zibiar (v): To love romantically

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word zibiar added to queue.

@DLosc Or is that too stratified for y'all?

@DLosc I was thinking more like a friend-love, a romantic-love, a superior-love (deep respect/looking up to them), and a cute-love

So same as you, but with a distinction between friends and romantic partners

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Definitely agreed. I was going to mention that next.

gOOD LORD

the starboard is now 70% Ginger Industries

I have the most shit-eating grin on my face rn

WR: kunbiar (v): To love/like something, esp. due to cuteness

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word kunbiar added to queue.

So I'm thinking maybe kunbiar could also be used if you're like...a middle school student with a crush on someone

Adám: si ma lia isa lait vy?

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Since obviously the deep professional admiration/respect one doesn't work for that, and zibiar might be a little too much for that situation

WR: tangsha (v): To subtract, remove

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word tangsha added to queue.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Hey, that's built from the common -biar suffix plus kun, "cute"! ISWYDT--sy gusti!

:)

Finally, some more compound words

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Does this also include liking puppies/teddy bears that are cute?

@DLosc Oh yeah, it's all coming together

@user yes

brb

WR: iomkbam (v): To cook

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word iomkbam added to queue.

Mmm, not sure I like having love and like be the same word

katlani's progressed a lot tho

I can understand even less of it now :P

No, there are literally four words for love lol

o.O

@user My immediate thought

dzupiar (to love as a friend), satzipiar (to have deep respect/admiration for a superior), zibiar (romantic love), and kunbiar (to like/love due to cuteness or a small crush)

We also still have gus, which I imagine is going to be used for things rather than for people/animals.

That's somewhat reasonable, although the crush thing could probably be merged with zibiar imo

Definitely a lot better than English in any case :P

No, zibiar would be more like what you'd use if you were married, or were dating and had been for some time

kunbiar is more like "I like-like you" or "I think you're cute"

Like infatuation instead of "real" love?

Sort of, I guess.

But without the potential stalkery connotations of "infatuation," hopefully

Maybe not quite as strong as infatuation

@Adám Is this a philosophical question? :P

@user that's how you know it's working

@DLosc tbh crushes are kinda creepy too

I'm sure English has a lot more, but they overlap and stuff

Depends if you limit it to one part of speech, too

gus su borsch: I like soup, kunbiar su borsh: I think soup is cute, dzupiar su borsh: I'm good friends with that soup and would trust it with my life, satzipiar su borsh: I deeply respect soup, zibiar su borsh: I am deeply in love with soup and will marry it

Oh yeah, these are all verbs

@user No, I was asking why I was invited to the room. Turns out it was by mistake because my message was erroneously moved here.

WR: makanto (n): Gender

hello bot

...

I assume it's fine

It doesn't listen to edits anymore

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I bet SE updated smth and it broke

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Why is "storm" totobr and not just br? Shouldn't totobr be rainstorm?

@GingerIndustries hyhyhyhyhyhyhyhyhy

@taRadvylfsriksushilani imagine my suprise

SE will never update chat, especially something like the way the sockets work

You broke something, not them :p

@taRadvylfsriksushilani that's mean laughter, I no likey

@user Good point. I didn't make the word, but I'll fix that

"mak" (person) + "bianto" (variant) = "makanto" (gender)

@taRadvylfsriksushilani si ma poi. ta ma pas iomkbam su borsh niny :D

I'm pleasantly surprised to see that all my spammy word requests actually got accepted

@user well now we have a bot to do it for you

Aren't all word requests manually reviewed first?

Not anymore

@user hahaha no.

Nope, lol

Our philosophy is that if a word sucks, it just won't get used :p

They're manually reviewed afterward.

if a word sucks then we wait for the bot to add it and take it out ourselves

science

WR: frickityfrick: frickfrickfrick

@DLosc Translator thinks this is something about soup and singing

lol...where'd it get singing?

@user you fool, DLosc's my regex will never fall victim to your trickery!

@taRadvylfsriksushilani "Translation: to be 1st sing. happy subject 1st sing. past ??????? soup most recent 3rd inanimate"

Y'all should put the translator in the readme somewhere

@user I thought it was pinned

sing. is "singular" :p

@taRadvylfsriksushilani oh :/

I'm going to write a full on short story in katlani. Like, 1000 words.

I think I know what it'll be about, too.

Whoa, ambitious. Maybe start with 100 first?

just replace my WR post with the one about the translator! That way we have up-to-date info and the 70/20 Ginger/everyone else balance is maintained

@taRadvylfsriksushilani are we in it

^^^ Why not some poems?

@GingerIndustries No, it's about a fisherman

@taRadvylfsriksushilani aw darn

> rompus - Microsoft Excel

I think that "stupid recursive bromance jokes" would make a great short story

...brand new sentence

@user wait I thought we removed that

ibro and iso are very similar, maybe ibro should mean only "disturbing" rather than also "strange" and "weird"?

Do I need pas in front of the main verb of every single sentence in a story written in the past?

@user That's what I was thinking

@user Every language needs multiple words that mean different shades of "weird." It's a very important concept. /hj

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Nah, I'd say use it once at the beginning and then leave it out.

Sounds good. I think it should be clear from context.

There's also nothing that says you can't use "present tense" (really "unmarked time" in this case) for storytelling.

@DLosc si ka iso :P

"So I'm headed to the store yesterday when I see this semi truck on fire..."

@user ma ama

WR: fuirak (v): To live or stay (somewhere)

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word fuirak added to queue.

Would it be worth it separating niladic, monadic, dyadic, etc. verbs?

No, imo

Almost all the verbs are "monadic", you just add prepositions for more stuff

And there are a few "niladic" ones, like "it rains"

Oh true

That makes grammar much nicer

I suppose you could consider ones like fobl ("to give") dyadic, but I prefer to think of it as lia being a preposition

@taRadvylfsriksushilani (or dyadic if you count the object as an argument)

WR: sdo (prep): By, adjacent to, close to

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Invalid part of speech!

@user I think we're playing pretty fast and loose with verb valency.

WR: iushb (n): Grass

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word iushb added to queue.

WR: katisas (n): A crop, a stalk of wheat, etc.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word katisas added to queue.

WR: mitsh (n): A road

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word mitsh added to queue.

WR: loshad (n): A horse

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word loshad added to queue.

Ooh, are you going to translate Old Town Road? :P

No lol

sadge

WR: slishat (n): To hear

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word slishat added to queue.

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word hogit added to queue.

WR: klingt (n): A sound, noise

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word klingt added to queue.

Actually, we don't need a word for loud

We can just say klingt op

("A big sound")

WR: plavki (v): To place, put

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word plavki added to queue.

WR: tokng (n): Amount

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word tokng added to queue.

Can we make ta nimak pluvyt mean "he/she/they cries"?

WR: ilompo (n): Metal, iron

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Word ilompo added to queue.