TNB Conlang (katlani)

Ginger Industries

14:01

si "nonosos" y :P

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@pxeger should we unpin this now that it's in the description and it's eating the starboard up

grandBagel

hello

Wezl - a cautionary tale

haia

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel hiya!

si o my mi gorlb

"my cat is an apple"

grandBagel

link for word list again?

Ginger Industries

14:03

@grandBagel hackmd.io/N09oTvZEQcivscRoPQDeGg?view

it was pinned and now it isn't

Wezl - a cautionary tale

also vocab.md if you use the link in the room description

Ginger Industries

mi my kat should mean "I am a member of chat", right?

grandBagel

WR: jort: thanks

Ginger Industries

vocab.md is out of date

@grandBagel hmmm

what do yall think of letting GingerBot in here for word request processing?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

no J

grandBagel

14:05

sy

Ginger Industries

can anyone find a HackMD api?

I'm looking but can't see anything

grandBagel

what do you mean?

Ginger Industries

a way to edit HackMD notes from a program

for the word request bot

grandBagel

try python selenium

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel my server doesn't have desktop access

looks like there might be a way to get HackMD to sync w/ GitHub, which does have an api

okay so you can do it, but I can't set it up bc I don't own the note, @ASCII-only does

I'm going to look at GH apis

Wezl - a cautionary tale

14:13

How do I transliterate dQw4w9WgXcQ into our limited alphabet

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale hmmmm

Wezl - a cautionary tale

only d49g are allowed

Ginger Industries

idk if you can

mathcat

what's the official website/docs?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

github.com/tnb-conlang/tnb-conlang

grandBagel

14:15

hackmd.io/N09oTvZEQcivscRoPQDeGg?view

Ginger Industries

hMmMmMmMM

brb

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries there's a edit button for me

you can use selenium to click it

mathcat

Can somebody do an example sentence for me to understand?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

56 mins ago, by Ginger Industries

fobl imi lia ma ta ka su abail my o my ka

grandBagel

dogo a komy kloc not sure about the order though

maybe kloc dogo a komy?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

14:23

I think that's correct if we have infix "and"

grandBagel

is "and" infix?

Redwolf Programs

Fos morning!

mathcat

kloc?

But it's a dog and a monkey

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel and is not infix

@RedwolfPrograms I'm working on that bot for word requests

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries is "and" prefix or suffix?

Redwolf Programs

14:25

@GingerIndustries Give to you your cat's house?

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms current plan: Sync the hackmd to the github repo and make a bot write to that

@RedwolfPrograms The cat wants your house

Redwolf Programs

We have a word for want now

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms GingerBot will be in here listening for word requests, and every half-hour it'll dump all of them on the github

Redwolf Programs

Sounds good

grandBagel

sy gust

Redwolf Programs

14:27

(Sorry I'd been reviewing a suggested edit and not paying attention :p)

Ginger Industries

I just need to give GingerBot an account, one sec

grandBagel

WR: kodet: sounds good

Redwolf Programs

Isn't that basically just sy gust?

Ginger Industries

need an email address :/

mine is in use by my account

Redwolf Programs

I can make one at one of my sites forward to you

mathcat

14:29

I command to give you a house to my cat smth?

Redwolf Programs

Do you want [email protected]?

Or I can also do @amidst.dev or @rto.run

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms [email protected] works

Redwolf Programs

What should it forward to?

Ginger Industries

can't tell you that, sry

Redwolf Programs

Oh :/

~~Maybe I should make two of them and have them forward to each other~~

Ginger Industries

14:31

the only thing it'll ever be used for is GH notifications so it doesn't matter that much what happens

Redwolf Programs

Wait, this bot won't ever post anything, right? So you can just reuse gingerbot

Ginger Industries

???

I'm making a GitHub account for GingerBot

Redwolf Programs

Ohhh

mathcat

@mathcat is it correct?

Ginger Industries

gingerbot will be the one handling the requests

@mathcat i can't recall, but I think so

grandBagel

14:33

I think it should update every 10min

Redwolf Programs

WR: samam (n): Time, or part of day

WR: fyla (a): Late

grandBagel

WR: doert: early

Wezl - a cautionary tale

what's the singular for fyli :P

Redwolf Programs

WR: nila (a): Current/now-ish

Ginger Industries

gingerbot & ginger-bot are both in use

Redwolf Programs

14:34

WR: pasla (a): Early

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale fyl

Redwolf Programs

@grandBagel Makes more sense to do paslo/pasli since we have fylo/fyli for late

grandBagel

What should the bot do when there are duplicate requests to the same meaning?

Redwolf Programs

Wait, yeah, we should use a or u instead

Ginger Industries

I need a username for the bot

mathcat

14:35

can I do a word request?

grandBagel

@mathcat sy

mathcat

@GingerIndustries Butterbot

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel it'll use the first one

@mathcat in use

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries WRProcesser

mathcat

aw

Ginger Industries

14:36

@grandBagel available but I don't like it that much

Redwolf Programs

saman pasla: Morning

Ginger Industries

i guess it'll work :/

Redwolf Programs

saman pasla fos!: Good morning!

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms I did change the email to [email protected] btw

mathcat

Whats this (a) in eg pasla?

Redwolf Programs

14:37

@GingerIndustries I'll get the verification emails instead of you, but that should work

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@mathcat adjective

Ginger Industries

account created

mathcat

oh

Redwolf Programs

@mathcat (fy/ni/pas)+la is what I'm using for time adjectives

Ginger Industries

check for the "launch code"

Redwolf Programs

14:38

It doesn't have to be an a, I judt went with la as the ending

mathcat

WR: Matix: maths

Redwolf Programs

@GingerIndustries 56767845

Ginger Industries

got it

Redwolf Programs

@mathcat We don't have an x

Maybe matiks?

mathcat

yeah

Ginger Industries

14:40

alrighty, account is ready

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@RedwolfPrograms how is the a conjunction supposed to be used?

Redwolf Programs

Infix

Ginger Industries

@pxeger needs to make sure it can edit the repo

Redwolf Programs

Maybe we should have infix conjunctions with different precedences

hai! saman nila fos! (Hi! Good afternoon/mid-day!)

bai! saman fyla fos! (Bye! Good night!)

Wezl - a cautionary tale

we need a when or during or at conjunction

or maybe it could be a verb

like, "during morning my cat is bitey"

Redwolf Programs

14:45

WR: tshadom (?): Some sort of when

I think it'd be a preposition

Like, tshadom saman fyla would mean "when it's morning" I think?

tshadom saman fyla, o my ma izl

(Or just iz o my ma for "my cat bites")

Ooh, let's suggest a bunch of prepositions!

saman pasla fos DLosc!

DLosc

haia!

grandBagel

@DLosc hiya

Redwolf Programs

There's been lots of word-inventing

grandBagel

WR: holj: true

@RedwolfPrograms holj

Redwolf Programs

We now can say stuff like "my cat wants to bite you" or "Give me your cat, and I won't bite you"

@grandBagel We don't have a letter j :p

grandBagel

14:51

woops

Wezl - a cautionary tale

and we already have sy

Redwolf Programs

How about holtsh?

Ginger Industries

remember to add all this stuff to the hackmd

the bot isn't done yet

Redwolf Programs

Maybe we can make it an adjective

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries what if the proposed word contains invalid letters?

Ginger Industries

14:52

@grandBagel scream at the proposer

Redwolf Programs

Like, niny holtsh means "that's true"

grandBagel

WR: holtsh (adj): true

DLosc

WR: shin (adj.): new

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@grandBagel can you add (a) to clarify at a glance that it's an adjective?

Redwolf Programs

lanii shin!

DLosc

14:53

oto kai su lanii shin

Beat me to it!

grandBagel

28 mins ago, by grandBagel

@GingerIndustries is "and" prefix or suffix?

Ginger Industries

okay, I got the bot to update a test repository!

this is progress

@grandBagel prefix

a thing1 thing2

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: kbam (v): to create

grandBagel

kolc a dogo komy

Ginger Industries

pas kbam mi su o

grandBagel

14:54

@GingerIndustries i need a translater

Redwolf Programs

kbam imi makai su lanii

DLosc

(I'm gonna be pilfering a lot of vocab from non-European languages that I look up on Wiktionary. shin is from Mandarin Chinese 新, xīn.)

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel I created a cat

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Me too, I've been stealing from various african/south asian languages lol

Ginger Industries

can someone give GingerBot write access to the conlang repo?

Redwolf Programs

14:55

Sure, just a sec

grandBagel

how to say <verb>-ing?

Redwolf Programs

ni <verb>

Or, if it's an adjective, we don't have that yet

DLosc

Can we pin the HackMD link?

Ginger Industries

@DLosc idk why it isn't

it was

grandBagel

pas kbam mi su ni kolc komy

Redwolf Programs

14:56

I had it pinned, pxeger unpinned it

Ginger Industries

14 hours ago, by Ginger Industries

katlani docs

Redwolf Programs

I uh...don't know how to add people with write access lol

Ginger Industries

google it ig

Redwolf Programs

I can't pin it again

katlani hackmd

5

DLosc

ok

Redwolf Programs

14:57

What's the account name

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms WRProcessor

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: asi (?): that is, e.g. noun asi noun means something that is both nouns. A cat that is a person is o asi mak. A word that is a food is lan asi ktomish

Redwolf Programs

Done

Ginger Industries

nice

Redwolf Programs

@Wezl-acautionarytale ooh, sy gust

grandBagel

14:59

@Wezl-acautionarytale sy gust

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale Sort of like the English use of qua

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale sy gust

grandBagel

WR: bomy: ooh

Ginger Industries

IT WORKED!

Redwolf Programs

bomy, sy gust is gonna be used a lot around here :p

Ginger Industries

15:00

GingerBot can now update files on the repo!

:D

Redwolf Programs

bomy! sy gustiii!

Wezl - a cautionary tale

kbam imi makai su lani asi ktomishi

Redwolf Programs

(is sy gusti grammatical?)

grandBagel

WR: pors: yay

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms You didn't think it should be yesterday, but apparently you've changed your mind X^D

grandBagel

15:02

@RedwolfPrograms I think it should be.

Redwolf Programs

[action] imi makai should mean something along the lines of "let's do [action]"

Since imi is like a command (but less "harsh")

Wezl - a cautionary tale

yeah

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale So, alphabet soup?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

lol

let's create food words

Redwolf Programs

WR: borsh (n): Soup

Wezl - a cautionary tale

15:03

first off, plastic

Ginger Industries

WR: izlash: Plastic

grandBagel

WR: ubep: fruit salad

Redwolf Programs

Why not a generic word for salad and one for fruit?

grandBagel

WR: rno: fruit

Wezl - a cautionary tale

yay, another use for asi. salad that is fruit

grandBagel

15:04

WR: meta: salad

Redwolf Programs

WR: gogi (n): Meat

grandBagel

WR: tomp: potato

Redwolf Programs

We need more variety in the word lengths I think

Lots of 2-4 letter ones

WR: banli (n): A vegetable

grandBagel

WR: eberpochum: shark

Redwolf Programs

borsh my gogi a banli: Meat and vegetable soup

DLosc

15:06

Have y'all done anything more with derivational morphology?

Ginger Industries

what

Wezl - a cautionary tale

should we make a katlani code golf salad blog post eventually :P

@grandBagel C

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale ???

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Possibly, depending on what that means :p

Wezl - a cautionary tale

no C

DLosc

15:07

Like how to make new words by combining existing words with each other and/or adding prefixes/suffixes

Ginger Industries

WR: test (n): A test word (ignore this, it's for the bot)

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Sort of. I've used suffixes like lo for time words

grandBagel

WR: neseof: bread

DLosc

B/c that's a good way to get longer words

Redwolf Programs

@grandBagel We don't have e

grandBagel

15:08

WR: ngoirfo: bread

Redwolf Programs

WR: posodo (n): A container, holder, bowl/cup

Ginger Industries

guess it's regex time ;-;

Redwolf Programs

posodo my borsh: A bowl of soup

Ginger Industries

mi aaaaa

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Do we want to use my for that meaning of "of"? It's different than possession--the soup doesn't "have" the bowl

Redwolf Programs

15:10

WR: vi (par): A noun casing for of/with

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries python flavor: (**)WR?(**)?\s?\w+:\s?[\w ]+

Redwolf Programs

posodo vi borsh: A bowl of soup

shor vi kod: A programming language

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel what is this for?

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries regex for matching wr's

(not tested)

Ginger Industries

right

Can I have a list of parts of speech abbreviations?

grandBagel

15:12

@GingerIndustries just use (**)WR?\s?(?[\w. ]+?)?(**)?\s?\w+:\s?[\w ]+

Redwolf Programs

^

grandBagel

(still not tested)

Redwolf Programs

Wait, chat messages use HTML not MD formatting

So the regexes will need to take that into account

grandBagel

then lxml + bs4 + regex

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel That's what I'm doing

Wezl - a cautionary tale

15:14

@GingerIndustries you can use something like a(d(j(e(c(t(i(ve?)?)?)?)?)?)?)?\.?

Ginger Industries

I will assume that POS abbreviations are between 1 and 4 letters inclusive

grandBagel

I think when a wr is added, ginger bot should say Word added: <word name>

Redwolf Programs

Why not make it more like "anything in between parentheses"?

grandBagel

@RedwolfPrograms thats what my regex did

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms it's looking for 1-4 characters in parentheses

grandBagel

15:15

@GingerIndustries inject is 5 chars

how about 1-10

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel intj

Redwolf Programs

(<[bi]>)?WR( ?:)? (<(code|i)>)?([a-z ]+?)(</(code|i)>)?( ?\([a-z ]{1,8}\.??\)) ?:? ?(</[bi]>)?

grandBagel

@RedwolfPrograms flavor?

Redwolf Programs

Any

Ginger Industries

better idea: \(.*?\.\)

grandBagel

15:16

i prefer bs4 + lxml + simpler re

Redwolf Programs

Yeah, but we often don't use . at the end

Wezl - a cautionary tale

I think it's best to remove all html tags first because we don't have a consistent emphasis format

Redwolf Programs

Oh good point

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Hm, interesting. I'm okay with adding another case, but I think we should work through several more examples to figure out what's my and what's vi--and what's some other approach, like compounding. Given that katlani is "chat words" i.e. "words for chat," why isn't a programming language kodshor?

grandBagel

just do bs4 + lxml then \(?(.*)?\)? (not tested)

Redwolf Programs

15:17

Yeah, just strip all <.*?>

Ginger Industries

The bot looks for bolded strings starting with WR:

Redwolf Programs

@grandBagel HTML parsing is not needed, chat uses consistent HTML

@GingerIndustries We don't always bold

You should just look for messages that start with the text wr with any formatting

Wezl - a cautionary tale

yeah that works well

Ginger Industries

Bolding makes more sense because if you're not sure you can do it w/o bold and ask for ~~feedback~~ onioni

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms And make sure there's a \b after wr so you don't get like...WRs seem like a cool idea

DLosc

15:18

How does the bot handle corrections? Like when someone accidentally proposes a word with E's in it and then has to change the spelling

Ginger Industries

it checks for that

Redwolf Programs

I have to go for an hour or so :/

o/

Ginger Industries

biya! o/

Wezl - a cautionary tale

WR: onin (v): to think

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms bai \o

Ginger Industries

15:21

@Wezl-acautionarytale sy gust

Wezl - a cautionary tale

baia Radvylf

DLosc

Hmm. So fastest-code would roughly translate into katlani as kod golfyi? :P

Ginger Industries

@DLosc I love how "slow" translates as nogolfy

grandBagel

Should there be a separate room for learning katlani?

Ginger Industries

@grandBagel neh

WR: test (n.): definition

DLosc

15:27

@GingerIndustries No e

Ginger Industries

@DLosc that was a test definition for the bot :/

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Ah. Well, last time you made it clearer ^_^

Ginger Industries

WR: test word (n.): test definition

anyone got regex to get the katlani word in a word request?

DLosc

If you just want the word, wouldn't it be (?<=WR: )\w+(?= [(:])

grandBagel

@DLosc which flavor?

doesn't look like python

Ginger Industries

15:37

@DLosc that works, thx

DLosc

Or [\w ]+ if you want to support phrases with spaces in them

@grandBagel Should work in Python

grandBagel

lemme try it

DLosc

I know it will work in Notepad++, that's what I've been regexing in lately

Ginger Industries

now I just need ones for the other parts of the definition

DLosc

Separate regexes, or put each part in a capture group?

Ginger Industries

15:38

I need to extract each part seperately

DLosc

The "elegant" way to do that would be a single match with capture groups, I think, but separate regexes might be easier to read/understand

Ginger Industries

whichever works

DLosc

Also, is there any markup in the string you're matching against, or did you strip that out?

Ginger Industries

@DLosc no markup

brb

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries i prefer separate regexes

DLosc

15:40

@GingerIndustries sy gust

grandBagel

@GingerIndustries bomy, sy gust

Redwolf Programs

Haia!

DLosc

All right, so first an update to the katlani word regex: (?<=^WR: )[\w ]+(?= [(:])

Oh, wait

Python doesn't have variable length lookbehinds

grandBagel

@RedwolfPrograms Hiya!

Redwolf Programs

I really don't like hiya/biya :p

grandBagel

15:43

WR: hobla: ok

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms We invented those before the phonology had been invented, so they don't make sense anymore

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms sy, ma ama... but it's okay, just think of them as weird archaic spellings like the English word "knight"

Redwolf Programs

Hmm, niny holtsh

grandBagel

@DLosc I need a translator to convert katlani to english

Redwolf Programs

That'd ruin the fun :p

DLosc

15:45

@grandBagel haia, si nimak su ma :D

Redwolf Programs

WR: ksoi (v): To know

grandBagel

Ok, I've successful decoded two messages

Redwolf Programs

Ooh, idea: ksoi my paslo: "To know of before" - "to remember"

It's weird grammar but I kinda like it

or maybe it'd be vi paslo...

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Same... I'm a little concerned that you're just converting each word from the English phrase "know of before," but as long as my [temporal noun] can function in a similar way in other contexts, it's good

So when do we use my, when do we use vi, and when do we just glom two words together (as in katlani)?

Redwolf Programs

WR: shinpai (v): To worry

grandBagel

15:50

@GingerIndustries How is GingerBot doing?

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms shinpai notice me ~_~

Redwolf Programs

shinpai ma su lan shin: "I worry about the new word"

Or, to emphasize you're only worried at the moment, I guess shinpai ni

Ginger Industries

I'm busy rn, bbs

DLosc

no shinpai imi ka. niny fos.

Redwolf Programs

WR: isplo (n): Soon, in little time

grandBagel

15:52

WR: dolkomasho: smart

Redwolf Programs

isplo, fara fy ma lia isa

"Soon, I will go here"

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@DLosc katlani is an exception because it's a proper noun

Redwolf Programs

Maybe aksi (roughly to come) would work better here

grandBagel

WR: uboiac: tomato

Redwolf Programs

isplo, aksi fy ma lia isa

(Soon, I will come here)

DLosc

15:53

@Wezl-acautionarytale Okay, so we're not using compounding in general?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

right

DLosc

Hmm

Wezl - a cautionary tale

or at least i think we shouldn't

Redwolf Programs

WR: kashi (conj): But

ma ama, kashi no gust: Me too, but I don't like it

grandBagel

WR: motkop: corn

Redwolf Programs

15:55

gus ma su o my ma, kashi iz niny su ma: I like my cat, but it bites me

DLosc

I'm just thinking that some of the longer words should be made up of smaller parts. Like how ktomish is ktom + -ish. It could just be prefixes and suffixes, tho. I'm fine with not being able to stick two whole words together to make a new word.

Redwolf Programs

Maybe we should have some standard prefixes/suffixes for making words, yeah

Wezl - a cautionary tale

gus ma su ngoirfo vi motkop

grandBagel

@Wezl-acautionarytale I only recognize ngoirfo: bread and motkop: corn

Redwolf Programs

si vy su ngoirfo?!

grandBagel

15:57

@RedwolfPrograms translation?

Redwolf Programs

What is "ngoirfro"?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

bread

Redwolf Programs

Oh, huh. It doesn't show up when I search it

Wezl - a cautionary tale

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=ngoirfo&room=133067

Redwolf Programs

Oh, I misspelled it lol

mathcat

15:58

What is bread?

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Neither does vy

mathcat

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=vy&user=&room=133067

Redwolf Programs

15 hours ago, by Redwolf Programs

WR: vy (?): What (as in, what is that, what is your cat's name, etc.)

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@mathcat it's meat but noone dies

Redwolf Programs

SE chat search is very janky

Transcript for