TNB Conlang (katlani)

Unrelated String

00:00

i say auto-scrape wr:s into a database that supports better querying than ctrl-f

DLosc

@GingerIndustries I'm just trying to save you a bunch of work :P

Ginger Industries

@DLosc I'd set up that database if I knew how

maybe someone can just make a bot for it

DLosc

@ASCII-only This works pretty well, except it comes up with some obsolete words that we've since changed

Unrelated String

^

ASCII-only

well... better than manually scrolling through chat history

user

00:01

And if I want to find the katlani word for an English word, that's not easy (e.g. have)

ASCII-only

and unless someone's managed to remember all the WRs... i don't think there's a better alternative

Unrelated String

especially since the more wr:s we have the more separate pages of chat search results it is

Ginger Industries

first, someone find a good database program to use

user

I like how the words here have more k's and t's than f's and l's and s's

Ginger Industries

then I will copy it all in because it's my job

Wezl - a cautionary tale

00:01

just write in .tsvs

ASCII-only

2 mins ago, by Ginger Industries

@user I meant the new ones

database program???

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only we need something better than GitHub

Unrelated String

i feel like k and t being more frequent than f and l is pretty naturalistic
maybe not so much s though

user

Google Docs would work but that requires people to reveal emails

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Something where anybody can add a word

ASCII-only

00:03

hackmd is still an option, yes?

Ginger Industries

yup

Wezl - a cautionary tale

hedgedoc?

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only hmmmm

Wezl - a cautionary tale

etherpad?

Ginger Industries

I will look into it

ASCII-only

00:03

it happens to allow anonymous edits too

DLosc

I haven't used HackMD in a while, but I think I remember it working well

ASCII-only

hm

Wezl - a cautionary tale

hedgedoc is open-source HackMD

Ginger Industries

okay, i'll set it up

Unrelated String

ooh

Ginger Industries

00:05

one sec lol

Looks like we need someone to host it, which I can't do

darn

ASCII-only

offtopic, for notes in general i think obsidian is pretty cool. sucks that it doesnt have collaborative editing though... let alone online sync for free

lyxal

Use Google sheets then

Ginger Industries

google sheets means email address reveal

user

Nah that requires you to be signed in to Google (even if anonymous)

ASCII-only

cough hackmd?

Ginger Industries

00:06

which is bad

user

Yeah I don't think anyone objects to hackmd

ASCII-only

i could try setting up a sandstorm... instance? idk

Wezl - a cautionary tale

text.allmende.io/p/katlani

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only does hackmd requrie hosting?

ASCII-only

and set up hedgedoc on sandstorm

@GingerIndustries no, hence why it's my go-to

Ginger Industries

00:07

@Wezl-acautionarytale this works

ASCII-only

but well... the main reason i don't host something myself is NIH

:(

Redwolf Programs

partshana mak nosos! / ta mak sos partshana nii!

Should pasi, nii, fyi exist to add emphasis?

Like "right now" for nii

Unrelated String

that seems like a good idea

Redwolf Programs

Or does ni itself convey that

Unrelated String

i feel like maybe bare ni for specificity, nii for emphasis

like i guess the specificity is emphatic but

Redwolf Programs

00:10

Or maybe we should just have a particle, like the right in right now

Even just like...sy ni would probably work

Unrelated String

yeah

Redwolf Programs

`partshana`: I read
`partshana ni`: I am reading
`partshana sy ni`: I am reading _right now_

> opb (pronounced ope)

ASCII-only

if anyone's still interested in using hackmd but doesnt want to set one up: here

2

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms That's fair. Good word reuse

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms No

no no no no gust

user

00:12

@ASCII-only @everyone we can still use hackmd because no one's actually done anything on the text one

Redwolf Programs

op is pronounced ope

Ginger Industries

no gustuuuuuu

user

Let's use that please

Unrelated String

YES

ASCII-only

completely offtopic: i've been meaning to make an... everything suite? but design is pain

bruh

> historical

DLosc

00:13

@user Works for me, though it's amusing that it assigns us all random surnames

ASCII-only

who here remembers speaking katlani back in the 700s

Ginger Industries

I will keep the hackmd up to date for yall

Wezl - a cautionary tale

ig HackMD is probably the best option

DLosc

@ASCII-only I'm not that old :P

ASCII-only

ah, 1500s, my bad

Ginger Industries

00:15

WR: srik: To write / Writer

mi srik

ASCII-only

ok yknow what, i'm kinda curious how... coherent? the etymology will end up being

Unrelated String

not

Ginger Industries

lord knows

Redwolf Programs

@GingerIndustries How about "write"?

"Scribe" is pretty specific

DLosc

@ASCII-only Not very, but there might be some hints of derivational affixes emerging

user

00:16

I like srik too, but we can use it to mean "write" instead of "scribe"

Ginger Industries

changed it

btw GingerBot is now up full-time

ASCII-only

srik: (v.) and (n.)?

Ginger Industries

yup

user

Please no

Ginger Industries

okay, srika for noun

user

00:17

Actually, that might work. Would it be ambiguous in katlani?

ASCII-only

mfw words for bit and byte

Wezl - a cautionary tale

are we using colons or hyphens in the hackmd

Redwolf Programs

Can we keep the nouns in alpha order?

user

@Wezl-acautionarytale I like hyphens personally

Redwolf Programs

Pronouns and particles are the only ones that should be kept in another order imo

Ginger Industries

00:18

hyphens because that's what we were using

"'The monkey is sus!' said I." is the best thing I have ever read

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Oh wait I can't partshana we were already doing that

ASCII-only

> syntax

ok wait

whats the difference between syntax and grammar again

Ginger Industries

idk

user

I feel like they're kinda the same thing?

Redwolf Programs

Syntax is part of grammar

Ginger Industries

00:20

ktom si o my mi grolb my mi

ASCII-only

is there a particle for plural?

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only check suffixes

one sec

shit where'd it go

ASCII-only

mfw baka

Ginger Industries

IMPORTANT USE THIS VERSION FOR TRANSCRIBING github.com/GingerIndustries/tnb-conlang/blob/patch-1/vocab.md

user

> oro

> pxgr (pronounced “pexer”) - To verbosify/explain

f for pxeger

Ginger Industries

00:23

ah yes, pxgr

:)

ASCII-only

ok question

Ginger Industries

sure

ASCII-only

what would fymak mean

Ginger Industries

hmmm

"screw you"

ASCII-only

o_o

Ginger Industries

00:26

@RedwolfPrograms my RaspPi is too slow to edit the hackmd, so can someone else copy in the data from patch-1 for me?

DLosc

@ASCII-only I mean, it's the future tense particle concatenated to the word for "person"... I don't think it means anything

ASCII-only

well i was going off the vocab ginger linked

where:
> nimak - Most recently mentioned person
> pasmak - Second most recently mentioned person

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only that vocab is not in the hackmd but should be

ASCII-only

it is now

Ginger Industries

nice

@ASCII-only where is the prefixes and suffixes section?

ASCII-only

00:28

no clue

Redwolf Programs

WR: ita (n): There

Ginger Industries

it

Redwolf Programs

So isa/ita for here/there

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only it's in patch-1

needs to be copied ig

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Onions?

ASCII-only

00:29

oh

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Seems okay--do we want to have just a two-way distinction, or more?

Ginger Industries

WR: toto (n): rain

:P

Fmbalbuena

hello

DLosc

Actually I think for an internet chatroom language, two distances is plenty

Redwolf Programs

Hai!

Ginger Industries

00:30

hiya!

ASCII-only

more-way distinction would be sick tbh

but i like simplicity too

Ginger Industries

hey lyxal

Fmbalbuena

can i think a word and addd to conlang?

Redwolf Programs

We also have itai for very far over there I guess

Ginger Industries

@Fmbalbuena sure as long as you format it like I did

ASCII-only

00:31

so i'd prefer "near-me" "near-you" "far-me" "far-everyone"

DLosc

We're not likely to be pointing out things to each other :P

Redwolf Programs

WR: op (adj): Big

Ginger Industries

@DLosc ah yes, we do have psychic mind-reading powers

Redwolf Programs

WR: isp (adj): Small

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Is that a proposal to change the existing word?

Redwolf Programs

00:32

Yes

opb is a horrific nightmare

ASCII-only

rw: (not w r): nerf: shrink

Redwolf Programs

It's supposed to be pronounced op

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms You have a point

Ginger Industries

ktom si o my mi su gorlb my mi

DLosc

@GingerIndustries I think you don't need si there

Ginger Industries

00:34

@DLosc hm

DLosc

Also, you have a strange cat ^_^

Redwolf Programs

You also need a du I think

Oh, you fixed that

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms get ninja'd

Redwolf Programs

The si isn't needed though

hyper-neutrino

huh, i've missed a lot

Ginger Industries

00:34

WR: dagi: ninja

Fmbalbuena

@RedwolfPrograms help me

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Currently it reads as "My cat eats is my apple"

ASCII-only

wait is no a word or a prefix

Redwolf Programs

Both

ASCII-only

bruh

Ginger Industries

00:35

@DLosc so ktom o my mi su gorlb my mi?

Redwolf Programs

Well, less of a prefix, more of like un in english

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Noun, or verb?

ASCII-only

when ur conlang has overloads

Redwolf Programs

You can't just stick no on any word

But nopoi, nosos, etc. exist

DLosc

@GingerIndustries Yeah, that looks good. Although I guess it should be ma instead of mi now

Ginger Industries

00:36

can somone add toto and dagi to the List?

Redwolf Programs

@Fmbalbuena We have no e

Ginger Industries

@DLosc difference?

DLosc

@GingerIndustries We changed the pronouns

ASCII-only

could no not be an... ad-adjective?

Redwolf Programs

We dropped mi in favor of ma

ASCII-only

00:36

no poi

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms ah

Fmbalbuena

@RedwolfPrograms Changed

Redwolf Programs

The no isn't really a prefix, nopoi's just a word

DLosc

I thought it was a prefix

Ginger Industries

it is a prefix

Redwolf Programs

00:37

:|

Ginger Industries

it's used like u

DLosc

nokun = "not cute"

ASCII-only

@RedwolfPrograms un- is a prefix yes

Ginger Industries

so nopoi and poiu should mean the same thing

Redwolf Programs

Fine fine

Ginger Industries

00:37

@ASCII-only no

ASCII-only

but anyway like my point is

Redwolf Programs

But there's nothing wrong with the no- prefix

Ginger Industries

we have both a prefix as well as a suffix bc some people want one and some the other

Wezl - a cautionary tale

I still support making no an adverb btw

ASCII-only

what's the difference between (theoretically) no poi and nopoi, besides the existence of a space

Wezl - a cautionary tale

00:38

no isn't an adverb yet

Redwolf Programs

What's the difference between not happy and unhappy?

Same sort of thing

Ginger Industries

no poi = nopoi = poiu

ASCII-only

@RedwolfPrograms well that's just the difference between the meaning of not and the meaning of un-

Redwolf Programs

I disagree

Actually I don't know if I do or not

Why does this matter?

ASCII-only

well technically unhappy should mean not happy, no?

Redwolf Programs

00:39

Sure

Fmbalbuena

WR: tldrpnultra: pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis

ASCII-only

it's english that made unhappy mean antihappy

Ginger Industries

no

Wezl - a cautionary tale

can we remove -u and no- in favor of no as an adverb or do people still not like that

ASCII-only

idk english sucks tbh :(

Redwolf Programs

00:40

@Wezl-acautionarytale sy gust

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale I'm fine with either no- as a prefix or no as an adverb

Ginger Industries

the only exception to the no = no- = -u rule is in no gust which must always have a no with space

Redwolf Programs

I dislike -u either way, I'm fine with the prefix but it is a bit redundant if we make no an adverb

DLosc

^

Ginger Industries

-u stays

I like how poiu sounds

ASCII-only

00:41

personally i like adverb because i'm heavily biased against syntactic sugar

poiu sounds like pogu tbh

Ginger Industries

@ASCII-only it's pronounced "poi-uh"

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@ASCII-only similarlly, I like no as an adverb because it fits with how we pulled tense into separate words like pas and fy instead of using -ed

ASCII-only

bruh is the phonetics guide wrong now

i just like simplicity in general

Ginger Industries

we need to add a tutorial to the hackmd so new people can learn katlani easily

hyper-neutrino

i prefer minimal synthesizing so if no- is becoming a prefix i'd rather it become a particle

ASCII-only

00:43

so i may have a moderately extreme stance but... given that everything else is (currently) prefix it'd be nice if everything was prefix

Ginger Industries

and can understand us talking about onions and sus monkeys

hyper-neutrino

also yeah too much has changed since i last checked on this room we should probably actually document what the language structure and components are

Ginger Industries

@hyper-neutrino we are

brb

hyper-neutrino

pog

ASCII-only

i.e. no suffixes. except maybe for backwards compatibility

oh tbh

should we treat this as a proper language

like, programming language

have some testcases, with the goal of having them be expessible in katlani

Redwolf Programs

00:45

No

ASCII-only

:(

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@GingerIndustries I like having the hackMD as a reference. maybe the tutorial could go in the GH so the hackMD doesn't get too large?

ASCII-only

not a bad idea, not like the tutorial needs to be actively edited

Redwolf Programs

WR: nilo (n): Now

DLosc

@ASCII-only So far, when we've had something we wanted to express, we've pretty much just invented the words and grammar needed to express it

ASCII-only

00:46

that said, might want to consider gh wikis

hyper-neutrino

i agree with the idea of having test cases

Redwolf Programs

WR: barda (n, a?): Later

hyper-neutrino

it's a good way to make sure your language contains sufficient features to express everything

turing-completeness :P

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale perhaps

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Uh...how about using it lol

Ginger Industries

00:47

@hyper-neutrino hey that's my line

oh yea we haven't been doing that

Redwolf Programs

WR: kiro (v): To want

Ooh, we need infinitives

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino Stretch goals

ASCII-only

@RedwolfPrograms well i think making up multiple new words on every sentence can get a bit tedious

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms yeah but there are a lot of language features that i probably use here quite rarely

Redwolf Programs

Then we don't need to care about them until then

hyper-neutrino

00:48

@DLosc wat

Redwolf Programs

Right? We're not tryna make an IAL

ASCII-only

sure i guess...

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms i mean, sure, but you might end up monkey-patching (is that a word?) things together to avoid breaking backwards compatibility with other features that you made without considerationg with other things you need

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino It's a good text for translating into a new language

hyper-neutrino

or end up needing to undo a lot of things from before

ASCII-only

00:49

but it sucks trying to make a sentence (or several) just to find out you're missing words

hyper-neutrino

@DLosc oh, i see

Ginger Industries

A book about nature trying to strip a random peasant

Unrelated String

@RedwolfPrograms this feels pretty low morphology so we probably just want some versatile complementizers

Ginger Industries

@UnrelatedString what

Redwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString Wait are you saying "infinitive" is too technical lol

Unrelated String

00:50

more like having infinitive morphology might be off brand

DLosc

baia kai! o/

Redwolf Programs

o/

Ginger Industries

biya! o/

ASCII-only

but also re: testcases, imo it gives a good idea on what direction to go to make it usable. but i also think it's a good idea to not create all the required words all at once

Redwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString "off-brand"?

It's a language

How can/why would you say "I want to eat food" without infinitives

@ASCII-only Once again, why not just try to say things and notice what you need

Unrelated String

00:52

i want that i will eat food

Redwolf Programs

Oh huh

Unrelated String

could also have some sort of volitive mood particle

ASCII-only

4 mins ago, by ASCII-only

@RedwolfPrograms well i think making up multiple new words on every sentence can get a bit tedious

in other words

Redwolf Programs

kiro ma pat ktom ma su ktomish?

ASCII-only

when you spend the early days adding words to make it usable

the heck do u do after that, since most of the words will already have been made

Ginger Industries

00:53

pas hada o my ma su "I will end you" lia ma

hyper-neutrino

balancing vocab and grammar is kinda hard

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms Actually this isn't bad

hyper-neutrino

without grammar you just have a bunch of random words and nobody can use them

without vocab you can theorize about grammar and then have no way to demonstrate or understand it

Ginger Industries

also this language basically use Polish notation for verbs

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@DLosc ama ma. Baia kai. Fy ktom ma

Redwolf Programs

00:53

@GingerIndustries Not really

hyper-neutrino

sort of but not really

Ginger Industries

"my cat said "I will end you" to me"

Redwolf Programs

@Wezl-acautionarytale Bai!

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale Biya!

Redwolf Programs

WR: vy (?): What (as in, what is that, what is your cat's name, etc.)

su vy pas hada ka?! (what did you say?!)

Ginger Industries

00:57

vy shor my gorlb?

Redwolf Programs

Maybe nai with pat could mean like...do [thing]?

nai ka pat vy? (what are you doing?)

I need some onioni :p

Ginger Industries

susin ma gorlb my ma

@RedwolfPrograms sy gust

Redwolf Programs

ta ma kiro su onioni

ASCII-only

is it possible to leave out direct objects?

Redwolf Programs

Wdym?

Ginger Industries

00:59

Why is kiro not in the hackmd?

ASCII-only

e.g. i sleep.

wait no

e.g. i eat.

Ginger Industries

or for that matter vy?

Redwolf Programs

@ASCII-only yes

hyper-neutrino

yeah you can just exclude them

Redwolf Programs

You can also exclude the subject for passive

hyper-neutrino

00:59

what was it again, ktom?

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