last day (15 days later) » 

16:00
3
A: Why "Turing machine makes no left move"- is undecidable?

ArnoTheorem: The problem "Given a TM $T$ and an input $w \in \Sigma^*$, will $T$ when run on $w$ ever move to the left on the tape?" is decidable. Proof: A decision procedure starts as follows: We simulate what $T$ does on input $w$. If we ever see $T$ moving to the left, we answer "yes". If we see i...

But there are many infinitely many string, how could we check all strings? Here only one string we need to check?
@Student Your language is not very clear. Do you mean instead the problem "Given a TM $T$, does there exist an input $w \in \Sigma^*$ such that $T$ when run on $w$ will ever move to the left?".
Yes, exactly I mean it
@Arno "If neither of these happen, then T will eventually have read all of w "-- there are infinite many w how can you say T read a of w? I don't understand this line. Please elaborate.
@Peter "If neither of these happen, then T will eventually have read all of w and move on to the blank part of the tape to the right of w."-- could you explain the meaning of this line?
@peter now if you understand, please explain me.
@peter Rice's theorem isn't not applicable on machine property. So Rice's theorem isn't applicable here.
@Arno "If neither of these happen, then T will eventually have read all of w and move on to the blank part of the tape to the right of w."--Please explain this statement.
@Student I have added the answer and proof for the other version of the question.
@Arno by your logic emptiness, finiteness also be decidable which is impossible.
16:00
@Student The proofs are there. Read them until you understand them.
@Arno your first proof definitely wrong. There are infinitely many strings. How can you read all of the strings and reach at the end. And check moving left or not?
@Student Again, please read what I have actually written.
@Arno "If neither of these happen, then T will eventually have read all of w"--here all of w means?and how can you say with gurantee T reads all infinite string?
@Student In Theorem 1, $w$ is one finite string provided to us as part of the input (as clearly stated).
So you wrote "all of w" means all character of w?
16:00
@Student Yes. And as I am getting the "avoid extended discussions" warning, let's stop here.
Almost understand... Just I have1-2 confusion.
"T has already completed the loop it will now follow forever. "-- meaning
Means T has completed read of w?
16:14
Arno please reply.
 
1 hour later…
17:39
Steven do you understand...
"T has already completed the loop it will now follow forever. "-- meaning
Means T has completed read of w?
I was just thinking about the question and came here to see the discussion. But please, be kind around here: these people don't get paid to help you, you know!
I think Arno's reasoning is perfectly sound. What is meant with "T has already completed the loop it will now follow forever. " is the following:
T only reads blank symbols (since w is processed), and in doing so it alters between its states. But since T only has a finite amount of states, there will be a cycle in the states its visits after a while.
More precisely by the pigeon-hole principle, if T has n states and does n+1 moves, at least one state will have been repeated. So from then on the machine is in an endless loop.
17:57
One thing tell Turing machine always have finite states?
Yes, that is an important part of their definition
I guess that otherwise, every language would be decidable by 'hard-coding' every possible path.
Machine moving in loop but how we say "we can answer "no" at the end. "
18:23
Steven
 
1 hour later…
19:31
Steven please help.
If it didn't go left the first time it was in the loop, it will never go left, of course (since it's a loop). So at that point, the meta-turing machine can say "no, T will never go left"
You understand second part of answer?
There exist w, we need to find w, but there are infinite many string, how can we find w?
But @Arno takes another logic by taking path which is confusing never heard

last day (15 days later) »