The Comms Room - 2012-10-06

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12:02 AM

Also, if it's bad enough to be delete worthy, flag it as such to get a mod to nuke it, or point it out to 3 10k+ users, who can use their delete votes to achieve that goal.

Kinda finding it hard to use all mine every day, so I'd welcome the opportunity.

12:25 AM

@WesleyDavid Sing the song.

I discovered Air Crash Investigations is on YouTube. Idly watching firey wrecks while I study ground shit for my checkride. Notice the reenactment video has a new-style digital artificial horizon (tall square thing). The investigation team bit has them disassemble a 1940s black-ball one like this. Did the NTSB recover parts from a different wreck, or were the Discovery Channel people too cheap to scrap a new gyro?

@voretaq7 I've yet to meet/have a cat that likes being in a car... They're not, you know, dogs.

@jscott Skydiving cat story goes here.

@voretaq7 There is something, an attraction, I'm not sure what [visceral?] about seeing wrecks -- skateboard, bicycle, motorcycle, etc...

@voretaq7 Googling this, because, wtf, skydiving cat.

Cathead Vodka. Because Vodka doesn't taste enough like shit until you've submerged a severed cat head in it during the curing process.

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@jscott It's from an ancient Gordon Baxter column in flying magazine

12:49 AM

In Soviet Russia, etc, etc. youtube.com/watch?v=wz3ZmZKsJC8

1:18 AM

Howdy guys.

Michael Hampton

Welcome. Please don't touch the red button.

Ok.

Michael Hampton

Well guys, I successfully installed nginx-passenger and redmine on top of it. Shoot me before I go completely DevOps...

How crazy is it to suggest removing libc6, albeit momentarily?

Michael Hampton

@jokerdino Insane.

1:30 AM

Thought so.

Michael Hampton

If you do remove it, your next step is to go find a Live CD/USB so you can repair the damage.

I haven't done it.

Anyway, just collected my association bonus and wrote my first answer on SF.

woah.

Thanks for the upvotes <3

Michael Hampton

Well, your answer was better than the other guy's.

I guess it was.

I think I can learn more Unix-y tools if I camp on SF. Hence I joined the site. :)

Michael Hampton

I've learned a lot from hanging around here.

1:40 AM

Yes, that's the idea.

Michael Hampton

You can see the result... I have 188 rep on Ask Ubuntu :)

Haha

I hope I can get more than that in SF.

Michael Hampton

It wasn't too hard for me to get to 12K :)

It might be for me because I am just a power user, tweaking the GUI.

Michael Hampton

Oh yeah, in that case you'll have trouble getting lots of rep here. But you may learn a lot anyway. I like to read through some of the highest rated users' old answers.

1:44 AM

Though, the primary idea is to learn more things.

@MichaelHampton yes that. I am looking through the FAQ for the past couple of days or so.

Michael Hampton

BTW, we're sysadmins... if you say "power user" here, we immediately think of connecting the user directly to the mains...

(That's a joke. Most of the time...)

heh not that. I don't know how you call what I am. Just a semi-average techie user?

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Where are you?

Journeyman Geek

lol

Michael Hampton

Oh yeah, it's Friday night here in the US, so almost nobody is around

Journeyman Geek

1:48 AM

@jokerdino: the first step is to ditch the GUI ;p

@MichaelHampton I thought that was pointed at me. But I realized there is another user of that name.

@JourneymanGeek I would if I am forced to. :P

@MichaelHampton Having a threesome with supermodels in Milan. Why'd you ask?

Journeyman Geek

The second step is to ditch the monitor, and the keyboard, and do everything remotely ;p

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Oh, nevermind, go back to what you were doing.

@MichaelHampton Alright. Just downloading... um, stuff, watching TV and beering. I can do another thing concurrently.

Michael Hampton

1:50 AM

@HopelessN00b Tell us a stupid user story.

You see the one about the CIO I posted earlier?

Michael Hampton

Nope

Alright, so I leave work early (well, on time) today because I get an email from the CIO.

Seems he subscribes to the Microcenter mailing list, or was bored at work, or whatever, because he came across this sale item.

microcenter.com/single_product_results.aspx?sku=248674

($99 SATA 2TB drive, 7200 RPM)

Michael Hampton

And let me guess, he wants to know why storage is so expensive?

Basically, jackass boy wants me to explain/justify why I wasted $20,000 in company money, because I bought 60 such drives for our file servers (2TB, 7200k RPM), and they cost ~$500 a piece. <sigh>

Michael Hampton

1:55 AM

Because the $99 drive will lose your data and cost a million in downtime.

I left before I decided it would be a good plan to explain the difference between the letter T and that letter S to him, in a very condescending way.

Michael Hampton

Am I the only person here who bought a stack of 15K RPM SAS drives for my home computer?

@MichaelHampton Honestly, I don't think I'm even going to explain it to him. He likes to micromanage, and I'm going to tell him (politely) to fuck off and stop second-guessing my decisions with stupid shit he saw in a flyer or find a new admin.

@MichaelHampton I bought a server that came with 6... 450 GB 15K SAS drives.

That counts, right?

(For personal use, of course.)

Oh, and while you're here, @MichaelHampton ... you're not using your delete votes, you should rectify that. :p

@MichaelHampton Fastest I've got at home are 7200... But I've got SSD cache drives, so access is generally much faster than the backing disks.

Michael Hampton

@ChrisS When I bought them, SSDs were MUCH more expensive. Next upgrade, they're getting replaced with SSD :)

2:04 AM

Most of the disks in my house are 5200 or 5400 RPM.

Journeyman Geek

7200 across the board here

next personal system will have an SSD tho

@MichaelHampton Yeah, that's kinda the problem I'm facing with the 15K SAS drives I've got. Can't find a use for them that's not better served by SSDs, or bigger nearline SAS drives. :(

A little painful having, what's on paper, a couple grand in drives that are basically useless to me.

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b You'd have to buy SSDs, but you have those drives just sitting there.

And of course, there's always eBay.

@MichaelHampton Which is why they're serving as server system drives. But still, it bugs me.

@MichaelHampton And take, what's on a paper, <50% on my money? Also painful.

Yeah, I'm weird... not exactly news.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: use em till they fail, then swap em? ;p

by which time SSDs get cheaper

2:10 AM

@JourneymanGeek That will probably be a long while...

Journeyman Geek

@ChrisS: precisely

(or you run out of space. Same thing)

@JourneymanGeek I'm more concerned with faster... My drives will only crank out 150-200 MBps. The new generation will do 400 MBps no problem.

Yup, I bet it's what I end up doing.

Unless my next desktop supports SAS...

Michael Hampton

Hit up eBay for a RAID card.

Journeyman Geek

@HopelessN00b: I think someone on SU specced out a workstation/xeon system, it was suprisingly cost competitive

2:12 AM

@MichaelHampton Already got (at least) one for every box I own.

Journeyman Geek

and that would both do SAS and fit in a decent graphics card

@JourneymanGeek It'll probably be something like that. But probably not for a few years, still. I can't find anything that tops out the custom one I built... some number of years ago... maybe 3 by now?

Journeyman Geek

eheh

There's a good chance the computer I build in december might not follow me if I move out of here in a year or two

Wish software makers would get off their asses. It's only got 4 CPU cores, 1 GPU and 16 GB RAM...

lazy, useless developers.

2 hours later…

Michael Hampton

4:01 AM

Oh look, I've earned the "Generalist" badge.

Michael Hampton

4:33 AM

OK, why does Windows "ClearType" look like absolute shit?

4:44 AM

Cleartype is set for the wrong pixel configuration for your display.

1 hour later…

Journeyman Geek

5:46 AM

looks like you guys got a troll

6:28 AM

G'day

7:06 AM

Magnum Opus offloaded from my brain:

0

Q: How to deal with bad questions? VOTE!

tl;dr: Please vote more; both up and down. Why you should all (ok, almost all) vote more: Admittedly, when it comes to voting, I'm a bit like the porcupine in the Dilbert cartoon at the end of this post... But Iain's comment the other day was dead on: what we need is more people who are ac...

discussion voting

Don't know if it'll do any good, but I feel better.

@Ward you still here

yah, a little longer

voting on a few of your answers that didn't get upvoted at all

there's tons of that stuff kicking around - good content, not upvoted

7:27 AM

@Ward reading your question - the paragraph beginning 'The first, most obvious question:' doesn't make sense

edited. Yeah, between the typo and the attempt at being clever, that was bad.

@Ward makes more sense now. That's the only thing I kind of don't fully agree with too.

Quite a lot of questions aren't really good enough to deserve an up vote ~ many of the questions we get on SF could be answered if the OP read some documentation ~ but not doing so doesn't mean they deserve a downvote

8:27 AM

This one's close to being migrated.. it's a little vague though. You want it? /cc @Iain

0

Q: Wireless access point under Windows Server 2012

I'm looking for a way to use my network wireless card as a classic access point under Server 2012, in purpose to share the internet connection of the server. I also would like to use the DHCP Server to attribute IP once a client is connect through the wireless network. Any idea on how to do that ?

wireless-access-point windows-server-2012

2 hours later…

10:15 AM

One note about VMWare's replication... it's not too smart. If you can seed your copies by "sneakernet" or shipping a disk, do so...

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2 hours later…

12:14 PM

@ewwhite How do you mean? I've been using it (via SRM) for the best part of a year now)

2 hours later…

1:49 PM

@Chopper3 Oh, because the initial copy of 150GB took two days. Seemed to ignore compression and thin-provisioning :(

Michael Hampton

2:21 PM

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@MichaelHampton which ones ?

actually that is a stupid question

Michael Hampton

@Iain Oh, looks like you've closed them all already :)

2:32 PM

@ewwhite Ah yeah, you see I do neither

3:02 PM

mornin' gents

Good morning all

3:20 PM

@ChrisS So how does one determine how many votes one has issued in a year? Or is that something only mods/devs can see?

@Adrian serverfault.com/users?tab=voters&filter=year

@Iain Ah. Funny that you can see that there but not on the user profile Votes page

2 hours later…

5:30 PM

. Please help. I need windows badly

posted my a user name MAC

M: No, you are not the only one with 15k RPM SAS for home computers.

5:50 PM

@Hennes Ther wha?

6:04 PM

Looks like you're hitting the crack pipe. =)

Hmm. I wonder what the percentages are of questions with answers that have vs. haven't been accepted

6:22 PM

So I finally got my corporate AMEX

now I need things to expense

6:35 PM

@JoelESalas Heh. The one I had at IBM was in my name. They we had to go through the tortuous process of getting things reimburned. Talk about a nightmare.

@Adrian I've seen my boss do it, doesn't look too bad.

@Adrian I'm flying into Seattle on Monday, want to get a drink?

the IBM process is what made it suck.

I'll be there that entire week actually, going to [REDACTED] for [REDACTED] training

@JoelESalas Hell yes. My boss is out all week, so I can pop out nearly anytime for a drink if nothing's majorly broken.

Where's your training? Locally speaking.

@Adrian Kirkland

6:40 PM

@JoelESalas That's on the other side of the moat, but I can make the trip over.

I worked in Kirkland for a few years when i was with big blue

If you get a chance, go exploring in Seattle proper. The Eastside suburbs are like someone transplanted some LA suburbs up here.

@Adrian I'm not sure how I feel about that

@JoelESalas Well, more like a caricature of LA suburbs. Which is fine if you like lots of identical condos, strip malls, and having to drive a couple miles to do anything.

Depending on the neighborhood, Seattle is walkable for most things.

7:00 PM

@JoelESalas Very different cities. Eastside is very Republican and highly uptight. Seattle's a major Hippietown

That sucks. Went through my answers. 24 accepted out of 107.

@JoelESalas You also scheduled your training for one of the most amazing Autumns I've ever seen here. It's crisp and cool, but it's been sunny for almost 3 months straight.

7:31 PM

is this answerable serverfault.com/questions/435505/… except for guessing?

Not in a sane way.

8:27 PM

@Hennes You've seen the questions around here. Sanity is certainly not a primary requirement.

Just watching the UK X-Factor and there's a very nervous guy who clearly can't believe he's on the show, I just suggested to my family that they should let him win but then inject him with something to make him sleep and wake him up sat in his normal clothes at a bus-stop on Monday morning and have everyone around him make out he was just dreaming, forever. They looked at me with utter horror.

lol

8:39 PM

Sent the GF a link to a set of Steve Madden over the knee boots.

She's all like "What's with you guys and women in boots"? Like, Duh?

8:51 PM

Speaking of insanity, is there a sane universe where you'd be running CrunchBang Linux in production?

Michael Hampton

@Adrian No

Off to Unix-land!

thought so.

I've seen some crazy-ass stuff from mid-20s DevOps cowboys though. Scary scary stuff.

Michael Hampton

Why is that question still here?!

no mods online?

You see his request for a crunchbang tag to be made for his question? Dear God....

which one ?

9:01 PM

0

Q: Crunchbang asks for URIs to get build dependencies for php5

I'm trying to install PHP5, by compiling it myself. I'm doing this on Crunchbang Linux, version 11. Specifically, the version using the 3.2 kernel. Crunchbang 11 is based on Debian. This is a 64-bit Virtual machine, running on a 64-bit Win7 Professional. Using Virtualbox 4.2 This is my sources....

debian php5 compile

CrunchBang running as a VM on Win 7 Pro using Vbox 4.2

It's not a horrid question, so it might be even worth migrating

@MichaelHampton why did you answer it if it's that bad - answering off topic questions implicitly encourages them shirley ?

Michael Hampton

good point.

On second reading, I think it needs a bit of work before it's migrate-worthy.

@pauska New users have to wait 8 hours before answering their own question.

meh I just close em off topic and leave a helpful comment. Let the OP do the work, it's in their interest to learn how SE works

Michael Hampton

9:17 PM

That user account is almost a year old. He needs more than a helpful comment, I think.

loving hammer of loving loving correction loving.....

@MichaelHampton it's not very active - only 5 questions

Michael Hampton

9:29 PM

@Adrian When and where was it deprecated? That's the first I've heard of it. Then again I try very hard to avoid NAT wherever possible...

@MichaelHampton Well, not so much deprecated as superceded, as least within the LTSP community. It's generally considered good practice to use SNAT for static IPs and Masquarade for systems that have a dynamic IP that floats around.

I fscking hate NAT too, but only 1 of my ISPs is live with IPv6 so far anyway.

Michael Hampton

Community really should not bump questions from nonexistent users.

sheesh. another one of these

0

Q: How to route outbound traffic to specific domain "XYZ.org" via a specific NIC or public/static IP?

Within the next week or so, I'll be setting up an AT&T U-verse modem with 5 usable static public IP addresses. I plan to register a domain name to 1 of the 5 static IPs (remaining 4 unregistered), and run a website from a single server setup in my home LAN. I'll skip the long winded reason ...

domain nic route traffic static-ip

Michael Hampton

@Adrian OK, I see the difference now. MASQUERADE drops tracked connections if the link goes down. Useful for dyanmic IP but not so much for a static IP...

@HopelessN00b Did you really just edit a deleted answer? :)

@MichaelHampton Yeah. Now that I can see them, I'd rather not have to see the spam.

Besides, it's not the worst thing I've seen today. Someone actually left an answer to the abomination below, for example.

-2

Q: Crunchbang asks for URIs to get build dependencies for php5

I'm trying to install PHP5, by compiling it myself. I'm doing this on Crunchbang Linux, version 11. Specifically, the version using the 3.2 kernel. Crunchbang 11 is based on Debian. This is a 64-bit Virtual machine, running on a 64-bit Win7 Professional. Using Virtualbox 4.2 This is my sources....

debian php5 compile

:p

9:44 PM

People keep asking this, both in real life and now here:

0

Q: Picture and text side by side by using html formatting

Picture and text side by side by using html formatting works when using Outlook 2010. I just inserted the picture from file, inserted a text block and pasted words. On the receiving end, the email showed the picture above the text in line. How can I prevent this formatting change on the reci...

I wonder if I ever can convince anybody that there is no way you decide how your HTML looks for every random person/browser/mail client with html ego/whatever

@Hennes I tried. I also managed to use the phrase homoerotic haiku in ancient Greek , which I'm a little proud of, actually.

@Hennes Nope. People have great difficulty disbelieving the "proof" of their own eyes.

starts counting silables in that word.

If he's still not convinced, I can post a screenshot of some script that replaces every second letter of his post with a picture of my penis...

I double-dog dare you to post exactly that as the answer.

9:56 PM

Format desired / display so not archived / wither away mail. :)

WTF. The girlfriend's cat drools when you pet him. Wierdo.

@Adrian that's fairly normal

@Iain Really? First cat I've ever met who does that.

Thought it might be because he's 16.

we have 3 cats 2 drool 1 doesn't

of the last 7 cats we've had 4 drooled and 3 didn't

@Adrian 16's not bad our eldest was 21 they average 15

@Iain I'd never had one go past 12. This one plays like he's 5 though. Unless something gets him with sudden organ failure or he breaks something, he's got at least another 5 years in him.

Michael Hampton

10:01 PM

@HopelessN00b Ancient Greeks didn't have haiku. They did, however, have the Sapphic stanza...

ancient greek sapphic satnza haiku gotta be sommit in that

Michael Hampton

Hm, 65 rep just disappeared. How do I find out where it went?

@MichaelHampton Checked the "show removed posts" box at the bottom of the reputation tab - probably something got nuked.

@MichaelHampton deleted Q?

@MichaelHampton you'll get a little grey icon in your inbox rsn

Michael Hampton

10:04 PM

Aha, I found a deleted question that I'd answered.

it says baleteed 19 hours ago, but not by whom?

@ShaneMadden did you go to the opening party for the Denver office ?

maybe it got migrated and the rep moved?

I had a 65 rep answer to a question that got closed OT -> U&L earlier I got a notification in my inbox

Michael Hampton

Maybe one of you guys can help me figure out what happened to it. I don't yet understand all the intricacies here.

serverfault.com/q/421924/126632

@MichaelHampton hmm

you lot the rep because teh whole thing was deleted and was 'alive' for less that 6 months.

Michael Hampton

10:09 PM

I can sort of see it being closed as OT. I don't understand how it was deleted.

@Iain No - I was planning to but had an insane week at work last week, was working that whole evening, unfortunately.

Michael Hampton

I don't think it was deleted through voting, since no names are listed and the undelete option is missing.

Yeah, that looks like a mod delete. 10k+ users used to be able to see which mod had deleted it, but that went away a few months ago.

@MichaelHampton I can't see how/why it was deleted. The cleaning fairies delete stuff @about 03:00 UTC on Saturday mornings but that doesn't seem to fit their MO

@ShaneMadden it doesn't say who deleted it which it would even for a mod

@Iain That's really strange.. don't those show as being deleted by Community?

Michael Hampton

10:13 PM

Actually no it isn't.

:6398577 no - it's more like 22:00 (ish) UTC

@ShaneMadden sorry I don't recall

@Iain Looks like they do show just "deleted" - see the autodeletes here: meta.serverfault.com/questions/3697/…

And the mod delete to his other question is showing that it was deleted by a mod, so I guess I can still see that.

Michael Hampton

Might it have something to do with the fact that the question was migrated from SO?

Shouldn't be. My understanding was the autodelete only picks up things with no upvoted answers and a negative question score.. or has that changed?

Michael Hampton

Should I pop over to meta and ask about it?

or meta.SO?

10:18 PM

@MichaelHampton mso would get you a quicker answer

Michael Hampton

On my way.

it's strange as there is no /timeline either serverfault.com/posts/421924/timeline

is this not OT?

1

Q: HP Wireless Printer not working

I have installed an HP DeskJet 4620 driver on a win 7 machine. All works perfectly for several days, and than printing is not longer possible. Instead I get the message: "Unable to communicate with printer". This happened on every Win 7 PC I tried, and none of the HP/MS sites contain any releva...

windows-7 printing

Michael Hampton

@Adrian He looked like a small business to me.

0

Q: Why was a question I answered automatically deleted?

A few minutes ago I noticed the mysterious disappearance of 65 reputation from my Server Fault account. On looking into it, I found that this question, which I'd answered last month, had been deleted. Strangely, though, it doesn't seem to have been deleted by a moderator or the community, but aut...

support specific-question deleted-questions

@MichaelHampton Perhaps. still thinking that's SU material though

Michael Hampton

10:28 PM

@Adrian I saw that he said he has multiple Windows 7 PCs, so I assume he's in a small office environment.

Bah! They migrated it to meta.SF

@MichaelHampton it was mod hammered by CasperOne but I don't understand why

Michael Hampton

I don't either. It'll be another month before any devs look at meta.SF again :(

Well, we ARE the red-headed stepchild of the piece.

Yeah, beat me to it Adrian.

@HopelessN00b flatlanders gotta stick together =)

10:37 PM

@MichaelHampton casperone isn't in the mod room atm so I can't ask why he sent it over

Michael Hampton

Can't you just @ someone in chat anyway and they'll get a notification?

@MichaelHampton I can't see any reason either. Maybe ask a question in mSO about why the question you ask in mSO got migrated? I'd upvote that. And get a cheap laugh.

What might have happened here is that the question was automatically culled as a rejected migration. Since your question originated in Stack Overflow, when closed here it was automatically locked and the migration rejected, at which point the Stack Overflow version of it would be shown as closed as off topic (you'd have to dig in it's history to find out that it was once migrated). Rejected migrations do get automatically deleted at some point (I think after a month), but I'm uncertain on whether they get deleted when they've got answers at the target site. — Yannis Rizos 1 min ago

Looks like the SE developers fuctitup, or is how I read that answer. :)

Michael Hampton

I retagged it bug, so maybe a dev will see it in 2 or 3 weeks instead of a month.

Michael Hampton

10:51 PM

OK, it's 23:00 UTC. Time to burn all your close votes in /review!

Still trying to burn all my regular votes. In first posts. Gawd, what a depressing queue that is. I think it might be worse than the close vote queue.

@MichaelHampton And don't forget to use your delete votes, either!

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Is there a queue for that?

@MichaelHampton No. searching on closed questions with no answers gives a lot of good candidates, though.

migration:0 answers:0 closed:1

I think that's the right terms for the search, anyway.

Woohoo!

978
posts
First Posts

@HopelessN00b No, What's demoralizing is the falloff in average votes cast this year after page #2

one might say page #1

Well, I can only do what I can do. I think I'm the 8th most active voter on the year, despite only having been here 5 months, and active for 3.

I choose to believe it's because I'm just that awesome, which, actually, doesn't demoralize me at all. :)

Michael Hampton

11:11 PM

You have no more close votes today; come back in 49 minutes.

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I just ran out too... damn, some people are really loose with the close-votes, though. Ended up having to vote do not close a bunch of times, which really seems futile, given that it doesn't do anything at all. Seems like it should cancel out a close vote, or something. :(

Michael Hampton

@HopelessN00b Once the posts reach 100 views, the close votes will start aging off.

And, it seems the system for reviewing First Posts assumed that people would choose Not Sure for the majority of them.

user image

@MichaelHampton Sadly, I ran out of votes about 9 hours ago =/

@MichaelHampton Yeah. Amen to that. Was just gonna post something to that effect.

Michael Hampton

Yeah, if I'm here during the day I can easily run out of close votes on the new crap that gets posted.

11:19 PM

@Adrian How many close votes do you have per day, by the way?

@HopelessN00b Not VTC, regular votes.

@Adrian Oh, right, you don't have VTC yet. Get off yur lazy ass and post some answers I can vote up to get you there, dammit! :)

@Adrian Also, go edit something quickly, to get +2 rep, to get you within 200 rep of VTC privileges.

@HopelessN00b I don't think I get +2s anymore.

11:36 PM

@Adrian Well, one way to find out. And editing a tag or tag wiki still +2's me, so there's always that option.

In the middle of cooking right now, and the odds of getting 200 rep tomorrow are slim to none.

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