@svidgen Yeah, we'll have to just agree to disagree. I respect you far too much to get into a debate over the validity of our individual views.

@DavidStratton I certainly won't press things if you're uninterested. Does little good for either of us.

@svidgen Don't misunderstand. I'm not saying I'm not interested in understanding your point of view, but I seriously doubt either of us could possibly sway the other to our way of thinking, and I'd rather not get drawn into a "who's right" debate.

@DavidStratton Sure. People aren't swayed by reason anyway. We're swayed by beauty, poetry, and appeals to our egos.

The tricky part is getting folks to realize that. But also to realize we can't abandon reason simply because it's primary purpose is to validate beauty.

@svidgen : When I was young I almost became Catholic & went to mass. 1 day I wondered why theres so many Christian religions, especially since theres only 1 Bible that they all claimed to be based in. So I decided to study the whole Bible to see if I could figure out why this is. 1 day it came to my mind that its not the Bible's or God's fault. Rather, its b/c many don't carefully read the Bible. I thought if God esists He must have given instructions as to what to do

b/c it says God isn't the author of confusion. Indeed, many churches are making big mistakes as they zero in on a few verses & practically make a whole new religion based on a few verses. Since the Cc has been around the longest I decided to compare what the Bible says to what the Cc claims is by God's authority: 1. Peter was the 1st pope. No he wasn't. Jesus started Christianity not Peter (1 Cor3:11) not Peter, Oc or RCc. Would you build a church on Jesus (perfect) or Peter (imperfect sinner)?

Jesus taught Peter the full truth so he could "help" head the churches with other Apostles (the "keys" share btwn 12 Apostles). For Jesus, the 12 Apostles (primarily -Peter to Jews, later Paul to Gentiles) started with Israel (ROCK is Jesus NOT Peter [human=sinner]{1Cor10:4 Bible NEVER changes usage} & Peter imitates but wasn't Jesus nor replacing Him like the Cc portrays popes as [+throne infallible claim]. Neither Jesus nor Peter NEVER SAT ON an EARTHLY throne-1 HUGE HINT).

There is no Apostolic Succession. Yes, Judas had to be replaced b/c Scripture cannot be broken. Also, Paul was "apostolic" so he could be "an" Apostle but he was never called the 13th Apostle (God does nothing w/o a purpose -includes whats written in the Bible). If Apostolic Succession was true it would be written about within the Bible (see 1 Cor 6:4).

You can be Apostolic but you can't replace the original 12. All 12Apostles+Paul were killed or died IN the 1st Century. Christianity was illegal at that time & the Bible shows that corruption was already starting in the original churches. By the early 2nd cent. most orig disciples were killed, died or forced to hide by Romans & others =theres NO CONNECTION btwn Jesus' orig followers, Oc or the Cc

=the orig churches were wiped out & isolated true believer pockets were weak. This made it easier for wolves to begin to use Christian labels for hidden agendas (especially b/c most were illiterate at the time). The next generation (includes some who killed Apostles & disciples) including "early fathers" added more corruption (intentionally & unintentionally) that became some core Cc beliefs. By the 3rd century many "new" practices & beliefs were added.

About 313 AD Constantine legalized Christianity. With Constantine's support the Cc became a state sanctioned organized church, which was against what Jesus taught (Jn 17:16). At that time Romes political situation was bad so Constantine & others wanted something that would have wide appeal to & help control the masses. Christianity became the catalyst & more pagan & OT practices were made part of the Cc. Eventually, the Cc gained more power

& were able to do almost anything they wanted (at the Cc beginning wrong practices were in place so many thought they must be proper), including adding more non Biblical things (more on this later) they hoped would attract more people & give them even more power (nothing to do with what Jesus & the Apostles taught). Now with the making of the Bible canon about 325 AD they wanted to keep to texts that could give legitimacy to Christianity. They knew if they didn't,

any major controversy over any selected book could be their undoing. Their objective was to unite as much as possible as many God-fearing people as possible. Little did they know that God declared the end from the beginning & made sure they chose the correct books. Later the Cc added back in books (the Apocrypha or lost books) even though they had been rejected originally for good reasons. They were added back in b/c many things the Cc was practicing could be given appearance of legitimacy if

these books were toted as being legit Bible books. After studying the whole Bible I state with absolute certainty that the original 66 chosen Bible books came from God. God knew that men would try to twist & misuse His word so He used an unchangeable system through out the Bible that forever bind the OT & NT to the truth that stands forever unchanged. The Cc DIDN'T WRITE any of the NT (its not a Cc text). Apostles wrote the NT in the 1st cent =NT preserved the truth for all [its purpose] not Cc.

God doesn't depend on man but He let the Cc produce the Bible, despite wrong teachings [its a privilege not a right] like He had Romans fulfill prophecy w/o knowing it (its happening again now). THe CC claims to be the 1st (oldest) & only true church. The Apostles never named their church "catholic" (universal isn't God's never changing message). Theres about a 240 yr gap btwn Peter's death & start of the organized Cc. B/c of Cc practices Peter, other Apostles & Paul wouldn't be Cc members.