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02:54
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Q: When subordinate gives the stakeholders a lower time estimation

riorioThe other day me & my the development team had a meeting with some stakeholders. The stakeholders asked for a new feature with the follow-up questions of "How long will it take to do it?" As the team manager, I said "Roughly X". And then one of my leading developers said "It can be done much fast...

How did you come to your estimate of "X"?
IMHO it's always a mistake to give an immediate estimate as soon as you hear a feature request. When they ask for a new feature, ask whatever clarifying questions you need, then reply "We'll get back to you with our estimate [tomorrow or whenever you choose]." That way, the stakeholders won't be anchored on an off-the-cuff guesstimate.
@JoeStrazzere That's why it's in the developer's interest not to give a lower estimation than the manager. Therefore it must be addressed that the developer does not speak contrary to the manager in front of customers.
"one of my leading developers" - how long have you been working together? Did it happen before?
And, actually, what do you mean when you say "your team" or "your developer(s)". What is your role to the team?
As JoeS. says, sure - never give estimates on the spot. But the fact is you did. The issue at hand is that one of your juniors contradicted you after that - so fire them. It's just a non-starter, you can't have a team that operates that way.
02:54
@Fattie: Good way to get rid of someone who might be your best developer.
@jamesqf - Or, if they are young and inexperienced, explain to them how life works, and give them "one warning" {And then sack them if they do it again.} Meetings are more important than some code, everyone's replaceable. You raise the extreme corner case that the coder is so incredibly good (perhaps in an urgent niche) that they shouldn't be sacked for this (even after a warning). In that incredibly extreme case, sure, you'd have to do something like have a mass meeting explaining that "Steve is just weird and says utterly unacceptable stuff in client meetings" - I guess :/
@Fattie: You're lucky that comments can't be downvoted...
@Fattie Firing someone over a single mistake is completely absurd, and a huge overreaction. Depending on the country, it could actually lead to legal action on behalf of the employee as well. Plus it would also be a huge morale hit to the whole team, and would likely result in other devs dusting off their resumes and jumping ship ASAP.
@Fattie You're insane lol
This is multiple questions in one, but setting aside how you handle the subordinate, well are your time estimates in fact heavily sandbagged? compared to other groups? How much of the time estimate is testing, integration test, bugfix/ documentation? How does this compare to other groups? If the subordinate is simply eager and is chafing at a slow pace-of-work culture, then assign them more and develop them, as long as you can prevent them undercutting you.
02:54
@AzorAhai-him- I'm starting to think that Fattie is actually just a troll. Their answers and comments are often so crazy and extreme that even I have noticed, and I pretty much only see what ends up in Hot Network Questions. Or maybe Fattie is an evil princess from a Disney movie or an autocrat of some third world country, the suggestions would totally point in that direction :-)
@Fattie it wasn't a junior but a leading dev and it doesn't say client but stakeholders so can well be within the company. In all companies I was so far what the leading dev did was no mistake, it was something I would expect of a dev, because they ought to know ad-hoc estimates for features better than the manager. That being said, indeed quickly giving an estimate can be a strategic mistake and if it is external clients it can indeed be a major problem to go low and contradict the manager, but the context matters and doesn't support your strong stance - unless I overlooked a comment from OP.
hi @FrankHopkins I think one can endlessly parse these situations; sure, there could be situations where "it's fine for this to happen". loud and clear in the title is SUBORDINATE. I can only answer as I see it. Certainly for any situation whatsoever posed on this site, you can - of course - make exceptions. In very broad general terms: "A subordinate absolutely cannot contradict a superior in a meeting regarding an estimate." That's a "flat fact". Of course there are exceptions. There are exceptions to "don't kill anyone!"
@Fattie Another employee can most definitely have a different opinion. Employees. Not slaves. Your "flat fact" and other comments makes me think that if you're a manager or in control of something, for some reason, you have a high turnover and can't understand why people don't stick around to enjoy the dictatorship. With regards to this question(s), there are definitely communication paths when a unified front isn't presented, when estimates vary greatly and other questions... but end of day? It's a job not a king and his/her serfs.
hi @WernerCD - "opinion ..." you appear to be using wiggle language, or, answering an unrelated question? In private the subordinate can scream her head off at the superior. So. What is your opinion, of the question, on this page? Should a subordinate contradict a superior in a meeting regarding an estimate? It's a simple question - what's your answer? (ie, answering that question; not an unrelated question about opinions or other matters.) Should a subordinate contradict a superior in a meeting regarding an estimate? (Your pop psychology addendum is bizarre BTW!)
@Fattie Yes. Estimates are guesses and based on personal experience, strengths, etc. AKA: Opinions. "Simple question" your reply says nothing to responses on YOUR comments: Your version of work is a dictatorship and not a place of business. "Should a subordinate contradict" As others have said repeatedly, the problem with YOUR replies is that you ignore your dictatorship attitude. I'm waiting for your ANSWER to get posted with detailed experience and backing evidence - not a thread of comments. I promise I won't downvote but I'll bet you end up -10 or lower.
@Riorio Question: What was the impetus for the Developers comment? was it without prompting - out of the blue - or did one of the Stakeholders ask for his opinion? There seems to be a lot of details that could affect the deeper opinions... In our team meetings, everyone has their opinions but the estimates are consensus based and we go high if there is a disagreement. Maybe your private standups are the same and that "open discussion" attitude bled out?
02:54
>> "Meetings are more important than some code" - lol, stopped reading right there. Don't feed the trolls

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