@DarrelHoffman I recommend taking a look at games like Obsidian's Neverwinter Nights 2 for how VA gets around custom names, it should be as simple as not saying them in most cases, but keeping them in text. As for number of pronouns, I am not closely involved with the nonbinary community but I know there is no "master list" and it is a very personal thing that changes over time. Having a text input felt like the best way to be wholly inclusive here, but if you disagree then that could be a good frame challenge answer

@Davor In the interest of presuming good intent, I'll answer this seriously. This game isn't a hardline historical fiction, it's a video game RPG. My setting is what I write it to be, and in my game I want people to be able to make the character they want.

@AlexF - I'm very serious. If your game is set in, for example, medieval world, having neopronouns makes as much sense as having a bazooka mounted on your horse. It's utterly anachronistic, nonsensical and breaks suspension of disbelief. I understand you want to be accomodating, but this is not it.

@Davor I'll keep in mind your opinion, though most people I've spoken to have expressed that they like the idea and find it a welcome change in gaming. From my perspective, it's a dirt simple implementation that is totally ignorable by players that prefer being known by traditional pronouns, so I really don't understand the issue, but I'm not about to call you wrong to feel that way

@AlexF - are 100% of the people you spoke to Americans? :)

@Davor interesting guess considering I'm not American

@AlexF - well, literally no one else uses neopronouns, and most languages are not even compatible with the concept as they are already gendered. So it's only logical to assume.

@Davor notice I said I'm not American, and this issue still has come up? I recommend you question that world view. Still, this discussion is unproductive and I have code to write. I'll take a look around if I have access to the "move to chat" button and bid you adieu

I agree that Davor's claims are factually incorrect. Genders other than "man" and "woman" have existed in multiple cultures throughout history. Non-binary conceptions of gender, and pronouns beyond masculine and feminine, are by no means recent or solely American phenomena.

For example, in French-speaking countries, some folks use the gender-neutral pronouns ol/lo or ul/iel, despite the pervasive gendering of the language.

@Davor If the game is set in Medieval Europe it is also totally anachronistic to have people speaking modern English, but that is a common practice since it makes making and playing the game easier. If we can update the rest of the language usage for a game, why not update the use of pronouns?

Use of magic, the appearance of dragons, or respawning after death would also be pretty anachronistic, but if they make a fun game, they can be well worth including. 😉

Sorry to continue the discussion in the comments, but the alternative was leaving the falsehood unchecked (upvotes or not)

@Oso I understand the temptation. I left OP's rebuttal in the visible comments for the same reason. If you'd like to cite your counter-example here, I think that would be appropriate.

Davors comment was flagged in chat. Some people really hate that position. And there was a whole fervor with one mod remove over a related topic.

Probably not wise to discuss this on chat on SE.

@Passerby do you mean Monica? I'm not sure I understand the connection beyond surface level. It's also generous to call something a position when it's not contestable. There may be an opinion version of the statement, but as stated it's just an untrue statement. There's a wiki page on the subject, and if wikipedia isn't your thing it has citations at the bottom to explore en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_recognition_of_non-binary_gender

"your" being used at the end there in a more general sense, not directed to you

Just saying that this topic tends to invite lots of flags. Right or wrong on any side. Just so people are aware.

Understood

Like that user who just got auto suspended for 12+ minutes from the flags on a comment that was migrated to chat.

The comment was overtly bigotted.

not all opinions are created equal. some of them really are hurtful

It's interesting that a game dev board would bump up against the paradox of tolerance, but perhaps not surprising given that it's just another medium

I mean, Gamers:tm: as well as the software dev community are notorious for having inclusivity issues.

I've definitely been heartened by the progress made in the software dev community, though. Long way to go still, but it's not hopeless.

Good. Cause I am trying to get into it

I hope it keeps going in a positive direction.

Yeah, my studio's been putting in a lot of effort to be more inclusive recently, including ERGs for various under-represented groups, company-wide training on trans issues, adding pronoun support to our intranet profiles, things like that.

Still a long way to go, but it's laying some important groundwork.

That's wonderful!

The company I'm at (big multinational) has been making an extra effort since last May to provide ongoing diversity and inclusion training. There seems to be a session every week for anyone who wants to participate.

Bringing in outside D&I consultants to lead them, too