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15:00
@BESW gotcha. I can see how that would go
Heh. That TCK thing was interesting.
Growing up on Guam is kind of like constant international travel and never leaving home; the world moves through Guam at a rather startling clip, but Guam sits pretty still.
Nearly any non-Chamorro friend I'd make would only stick around for a couple years, tops.
@BESW yeah, so you got the TCK experience without moving. That kind of sucks (and it's kinda cool, I enjoyed the continuously getting to start over bit of being a TCK)
...and they tended to go to the really snooty private schools.
@waxeagle I did have one very good friend who got totally messed up by that experience.
@BESW sadly that's a story I've seen played out in several people. It's not a life everyone can handle. And parents are often ill equipped to help.
His folks divorced and remarried when he was very young, and both new families relocated internationally every year or so. So he bounced between families who bounced around the world, and every six months to a year he'd get a Complete Reset on his life--including consequences for his actions.
15:09
(or just flat out too busy)
@BESW yikes.
just yikes
He's never learned long-term planning or how to cope with the long-term consequences of his actions, because it was always pointless. Even if he wanted to plan something, his life was so completely out of his control that he just gave up trying.
He returns to Guam every couple years, because his mom's mostly settled here now and it's kind of a home base. "Hi, where've you been the last three years?" "China. I had to leave because they finally noticed I was working on an expired tourist visa."
@BESW wow, yikes. Just plain unprepared for adulthood. That's definitely a potential consequence.
He's one of the only travel-life kids I've known for an extended period, but the others I've met almost always seem... off, somehow.
[shrug] I know I was pretty shell-shocked when I went to SC.
@BESW nod yes. yes we are :)
Practically the first thing my roommate said to me was "Yuhficksintuhgout?"
15:16
I have an unmistakeable, almost unshakeable urge to move, or quit my job, or change something massive every single January.
@BESW lol
huh what now?
@C.Ross Can you interpret, or did I not render it sufficiently?
@BESW oh it's rendered just fine. I understand, just picturing your reaction
both of my parents are texans, I'm fluent enough in US southern :)
Poor guy. He sounded like a redneck from the sticks and hated it. He was quite smart, but unable to make anyone take him seriously.
@BESW common problem among folks with strong accents
especially in areas where the specific accent sounds poorly educated
Yeah. It's a problem here too; there's a "redneck" equivalent in terms of subculture and language.
On the other hand, I'm frequently told I don't have an accent, which is definitionally incorrect. People in college thought I might be British because I enunciated my syllables.
@waxeagle I quickly divided the southern accent into two schools: the drawl and the gabble.
Gabble: "Yuhfickintuhgout?"
Drawl: "Ah gawt awl mah aht supplahs aht Mahkel's."
15:25
I can see it
I'm not fluent in Southern, can you translitterate?
both, please.
"You fixing to go out?" (fixing = planning, preparing)
@Zachiel "[are] you fixing to go out?"
"I got all my art supplies at Michael's." (Michael's = local craft store chain)
Michael's isn't really "local"; it's found in a pretty wide swathe of the southern US.
15:27
Fair enough.
the second one is how I figure british people speak... maybe it's because a major is a... mehaah
according to our Air Traffic Controller british english professor
After the Angry Fairy closed, it was the only place to get art supplies within an hour of the college. I always thought the school should have done some kind of arrangement between the professors and the school store....
@Zachiel The Southern US accent is supposedly the closest living example of what the English sounded like in Shakespeare's time.
@BESW You'd think so :(. School stores should at least have rudimentaries for class requirements. Especially when there aren't close by sources.
15:30
@ObliviousSage Heh, yeah. The Isles have an amazing plethora of accents and dialects, and the RPs don't seem to actually show up much off the Beeb.
ç_ç I've been looking for that snatch quote for ages, last month
@Zachiel ummmm, it wasn't exactly hard to find
My google-fu is weak
i just went to youtube, searched snatch english and it was like the 4th one down
I think I searched for "snatch nobody speaks english" or something like that
I think there was another scene where some boy tells some slang to... I think it was Doug, and he said something about being in england as well
 
2 hours later…
17:18
So, I've got a question, which I'm going to assume from my other SE experience is off topic, but should be good for a chat room discussion.
Oooh.
I'm toying with the idea of trying to get my family (Ages 9-14) in to RPGs. I'm not currently in to them, but I've had some background in the area (Mostly the gold box video games, etc)
I'm trying to figure out how to get started, and specifically what I could try.
I recommend FATE Accelerated!
I know my family really likes Zelda, I pitched the idea to my wife as being something like a board game Zelda (I know it's a stretch, but...)
And, GO!
So, are you asking for tips on how to present the concept, or systems to use?
17:20
Well, mostly what to start out with.
I guess a system to use.
Off the top of my head I'd also recommend Fate Accelerated, but knowing a bit more about your desired gameplay experience would be useful in tailoring recommendations.
I like the idea of RPGs for my family, because they are always creative.
They really like the story telling type aspects. I like more of the advancing in level concepts, but I'm willing to push my own desires a bit in to a corner to try something with my family.
What style do you want to run? Fighting, social encounters, realm management, just about any experience you want could be catered to; the RPG closet is vast and deep.
Hmmm. This is where my inexperience with things comes in to play...
Okay.
What kind of stories does your family like to tell, then?
17:25
Of the ones listed, I would say a bit of fighting, but more on the social encounters side of things.
Themes, settings, events...
Wow, never realized this would be so tricky...
you could also try one of the board game options. I've heard Dungeon! is pretty good
@PearsonArtPhoto Don't worry too much. You've already told me a lot.
And I do think Fate will work based on what you're saying... okay, let's ask some questions to see if Fate isn't good for your needs.
Considering I can print a demo of Fate for free, I think I'll give it a shot.
17:27
"Do you hate fun?"
Rules: On a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 is "just make stuff up" and 5 is "the manual has rules and systems to cover anything you could ever think of doing," how "crunchy" would you like the rule system to be?
If I wanted something where the manual had the rules and systems, I'd play on a computer. So I'm going to go with a 2
tickmark in the Fate column.
Is a character's stats or personality more important?
@Problematic That's a toughie... I suppose for my family, they would prefer the personality.
17:29
Choices: On a scale of 1 to 5, where 1 is "I just make up rules as we go" and 5 is "the rules are written and must be followed at all times," how much do you want to feel the rules are under your (the group's) control?
@BESW Again, a 2-3. Probably a solid 3 actually.
I think Fate Accelerated is gonna be a good start for your family.
I strongly suggest you also download the Fate Core; it's got the "philosophy" stuff about why the rules are the way they are.
Hmmm. Okay, will take a look then.
Accelerated is basically Core with the complexity knobs all turned way down. You can dial them up individually (sometimes even per character, so the older kids can do more with the rules while still playing with the younger ones) as you like.
@BESW Well said.
17:32
Hmmm. I think I'll start with the accelerated version, and look at the core for myself.
I suggest you start out with pure Accelerated to get everyone comfortable with the system, and then bring in elements from the Core as needed/desired to let people stretch their brains.
@PearsonArtPhoto there are literally 1000s of other options out there as well. FAE is probably a really good one. But if what you realize you're looking for is Dungeons and Dragons then I'd highly recommend the D&D Red Box as a start.
Thanks so much for the help! Hopefully this will work out.
@waxeagle I like D&D, but I'm not sure the rest of my family would...
though from your criteria, I'd guess that you're probably not looking for that :)
D&D isn't the ideal storytelling engine, yeah.
17:33
@PearsonArtPhoto totally get that.
@BESW not at all
but it merits a mention for someone considering a start because of it's iconic status.
Well, I'll give the material a quick read, maybe try something out this weekend.
Indeed.
If you'd like to talk about any of the rules or ideas, we'd be happy to work with you.
Sure thing.
We're actually hosting a casual online Accelerated game here in another chat room, as practice for us to learn more about the system.
So we'd be delighted to hear about your experiences.
18:11
Sure thing.
 
1 hour later…
19:20
@BESW You know, with a little work, I'm pretty sure you could make a basic "Recommend me an RPG" quiz starting with these questions...
@Nigralbus all paths lead to FATE
@Problematic Quite possibly true, if a little dogmatic.
I would actually like to see that quiz in weighted percentage form. "Based on your answers, D&D 3.5e is an 80% fit, FATE Core is a 50% fit, and GURPS is a 12% fit."
(It's never GURPS)
@Problematic That's what I was imagining, yes.
Mathematically, there has to be a way to end up with GURPS...
"On a scale of 1 to 5, with 1 being 'Uncle!' and 5 being 'Bring the embers!' how masochistic do you think you are ?"
But then you want Shadowrun.
19:29
@Problematic ... yes, I do.
Don't get me wrong: I love me some Shadowrun, but each different subsystem is like a whole new game to learn.
I usually just tell my players, "be what you want, but come to the table knowing your rules."
It works out... most of the time.
Well, I've read through the Fate Accelerated material.
@Problematic I hear they're finally trying to do something about it in SR5.
It seems like it's basically a general purpose RPG type mechanism.
@PearsonArtPhoto yes
if you want it in a setting you'll have to wait a bit IIRC
19:31
Which I suppose is exactly what I asked for. Now, I'm just going to have to figure out where to go from there.
@Nigralbus Oooh. I'll have to look into that.
@PearsonArtPhoto One of the cool parts of FATE is that worldbuilding is kind of built in, so your players can have a hand in creating the kind of story they want to tell.
@PearsonArtPhoto Figure it out with your players. I can't tell for Accelerated (not too fresh in my memory) but Core has excellent World creation mechanics based on basically just asking everyone what they want.
Alternatively, you could look at games like Spirit of the Century or Diaspora, which use Fate rules (core, though, not accelerated) for their settings.
and there is a dresden files accelerated game that is coming as well.
@Problematic And it is, indeed, one of the coolest parts of the game. (Though I'd have to ask, is there any part that is actually cooler than the others when the whole thing is Superb ?)
19:35
@Nigralbus In my mind, the coolest part of the system is the fate fractal.
@waxeagle Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath for DFA though. M. Hicks said they hadn't even begun the planning for that one...
@Nigralbus That's pretty much what my plan is, so...
@PearsonArtPhoto So it looks like you're set ! Hope you guys have a great game !
@PearsonArtPhoto Might just be my perception, but you seem a little lost or hesitant. Anything we can do to help put your mind at ease?
I guess I'm a bit hesitant, but I guess it's just because it's trying something that I've never done, which almost always makes me a bit hesitant.
I'm starting to get a better idea of how things work, slowly.
19:39
If you're interested, here are some great examples of Fate Accelerated gameplay, from members of this community
@PearsonArtPhoto have you played a table top before? or would this be your first time
If I understand the phrase "table top" correctly, then no, this would be my first time.
@PearsonArtPhoto cool. I started about 2 and a half years ago with a group of college friends who hadn't ever done it before. We've been playing weekly ever since and are having a blast.
I'm hoping to do something similar with my family.
@PearsonArtPhoto neat. If I might ask, how old are your kids?
19:43
9, 12, 14
@PearsonArtPhoto good age range to get started in I think :)
Yeah. They definitely have the creativity.
@PearsonArtPhoto yeah, and this is potentially a good outlet for them
That's the plan. Well, I should probably get some work done today...
@PearsonArtPhoto yeah....work...
20:50
@Lunin let's move this discussion here.
no sense going on in comments when we're both in chat :)
looks like your right anyways :).
I'm still not convinced these powers triggering 7 times from a single attack is RAI but hey, it's RAW :)
heh
I think a lot depends on whether the enemies die all at once or individually
ie: whether multi target hits resolve individually
@Lunin definitely.
for a burst since the damage is rolled as a single number, I'd argue they die at once...but that's hard to model
yeah, that might be a good question actually, though I have no idea where someone would get a definitive answer other than asking Wizards directly
if it was just a multiattack power, this would be much easier to resolve. Attack, hit, hammers, teleport, attack, hit, hammers, teleport...
yep
20:54
well, let's see if burst/blast/area has anything to help us
nope, no help there
hmm... well I believe there are powers that have stuff like Hit: 1[W]+Whatever; Spend a healing surge
so we can say for sure that the hit block only triggers once
@Lunin yes, that's correct.
no resolution there...
are there any attacks set to trigger something based on how many enemies you reduce to 0 hit points? Something like that may have a wording that leans one way or another
On the other half of the issue, if a free action has to happen immediately after whatever gives it to you, then wouldn't you only ever be able to use one anyway?
you could get 7 of them, use one, and now you're after the free action instead of after the initial action
I mean, in all honesty I can't find anything definitive on how long you'd have access to those free actions
@Lunin you use it after the trigger. But in this case the trigger could be either the power or the creature death, and I'm truly not sure which it should be
@Lunin but the free action took no time, so you're still after the trigger ends.
in that case, what would be the difference between No Action and Free Action? Free Actions have the extra limit that you can only do one attack per turn and that they can be limited by DM fiat; but many of the powers that use No Action don't involve attacking.
21:06
@Lunin in this case? none. No Action is only used for very specific things
There's ~184 No Action powers in the compendium, though I'm unsure how that number compares with other types
though I am unsure as to how much that factors in, I was mainly trying to use No Action to try to deduce what Free Action was not where the glossary was silent
@Lunin not sure. A lot of those are to provide you with saving throws in a situation where you'd be unable to make them.
or act at all
it does seem to be the catch all for "you shouldn't be able to inject something here"
like during die rolls and to add damage to an attack in progress
yep. I might have to go through all of the no action attacks tonight :)
same, I want to dig more but I'm somewhat limited because I came across the question during my lunch break
21:13
@Lunin yeah, I have no compendium access here so it's all mobile which is useful if you know what you're looking for, but doesn't have the filtering I need
so I'm likely going to have to come back to it later
gotcha. I'm on PC if you have something specific you want filtered
21:47
@Truebrooks Hi!
Hey guys, quick question. I'm starting a new campaign and I want to be something that isn't a Druid this time. I'm looking at being a Bard and multiclassing as a Rogue (I want to be a rapper, I thought it would be funny). If I multiclass as a rogue, though, do I really just get Thievery as a trained skill and one time use of Sneak Attack?
@BESW Hello :D
What game system?
Oh yeah D&D 4E
I looked at the Multiclass feats and that's all you get. I figured there'd be more stuff to it. :/
Multiclassing in 4e is pretty basic, although there is more than one feat to multiclass as rogue with.
Oooh any others I should look at? I only have access to the 3 PHBs.
21:51
Ruthless Efficiency [Multiclass Rogue]
Prerequisite: Str 13, Dex 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Stealth skill. You gain the Ruthless Ruffian class feature.
Sly Dodge [Multiclass Rogue]
Prerequisite: Dex 13, Cha 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Bluff skill or the Intimidate skill.
Once per encounter, when an enemy makes an opportunity attack against you, you can add your Charisma modifier to your AC against that attack.
Sneak of Shadows [Multiclass Rogue]
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: You gain training in the Thievery skill.
Once per encounter, you can use the rogue’s Sneak Attack class feature.
Twilight Adept [Multiclass Rogue]
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Dex 13 or Int 13
Benefit: You gain training in Stealth.
Once per encounter, you can use a free action during your turn to gain the benefit of the rogue class feature Cunning Sneak until the end of your turn.
Yeah, Sneak of Shadows is the only one I saw. PHB1 I think?
I'll probably just end up roleplaying it though, then. :/ None of those really fit my flavor.
If you want to become more like a rogue, remember that the multiclass feat also lets you qualify for more advanced multiclass feats (which allow things like gaining a rogue power) and lets you pretend you're a rogue for all feat and paragon path/epic destiny requirements.
What is it about rogue that you want?
Oh yeah, hm.
I kind of... want to be a "thug", I guess? lol
Is it a flavor issue, or is there a specific mechanic?
Like my character is a rapper. think 50 Cent. :P
So my Bard stuff is like "fight harder suckas" and then I was going to use rogue powers with like crossbows or something, be all "gangsta".
Lots of Intimidate and Diplomacy checks.
21:57
Then maybe you should consider the skald...
You might also find a D&D Insider subscription useful. I was suspicious of it at first, but it gives you access to a fully searchable database of all the crunch ever officially released for the game, as well as the ability to download all the magazines article by article, and pretty good PC/NPC building web apps.
Okay, thanks. :)
22:28
If you find yourself wanting to blend two classes more, there are also the Hybrid rules from PHB3, you get class features from two classes, though they tend to be a little less powerful and/or a little more constricting than their single classed counterparts
22:50
@Truebrooks Yes, as @Lunin said, hybrid is also an option. Normally I wouldn't recommend it, since it takes a lot of system mastery to make a decent hybrid character, but skald + rogue is actually a fairly decent combo as long as you pick a dex/cha race. I would recommend going to the Character Optimization forums and asking for help with a build.
It's usually possible to build an at least OK single class character muddling through on your own, but hybrids tend to turn out somewhere between "unusually crappy" and "The Worst Character Ever(TM)" unless you yourself are an expert or you're getting (and following) the advice of experts.
Hi guys, I can't help but feel another of my questions needs some guidance as to what it really should be asking.

Is http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/26287/what-are-believable-combat-escape-plans-for-npcs too specific or too general? Is there a good question in there that needs an edit to bring it out?
@StuperUser Hmmm. Let's try both: "Reliable but within-the-(Pathfinder)-rules strategies recurring NPCs can use to escape so they can stay recurring."
Add any other caveats you may wish.
Oh, man. The Digger Omnibus Kickstarter hit its first stretch goal in under 24 hours.
@StuperUser Personally, I find that a combination of preparation, planning, and cunning item use is best: teleport is useful, but the ability to turn gaseous and vanish down the drain is memorable.
23:28
@besw thanks. That would be memorable. I've made a few edits based on your suggestions.
A smart creature of any stripe, if he's the kind of person who goes around making enemies, has survival plans.
Don't feel like having an escape plan is GM fiat if the character would have one.
23:55
@BESW wise works for that in D&D as well
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