Grats @waxeagle!

@Aether Is Charlin the Mundane basically ready to go?

@Cat Yawp!

:)

mornin folks.

Hey @Novian

@Novian marnin

And suddenly there were many!

anyone else think that the sun needs to be turned down out of common decency for sleepin folk?

No!

@Novian It's 0003 Wednesday for me, so... no?

(sorry, I live farther North than you, obviously)

9:03 here.

as morning as it ever gets.

Tuesday here.

Saturday of the year 1336, here.

Hey guys, I've got a dude in scifi chat who is interested in tabletop RPGs because he finds video game RPGs too limited in scope, but knows basically nothing about RPGs.

:P lol

@BESW lol, been there.

I'm thinking to invite him to come over here for some chattery with all y'all.

Sounds good

@BESW I'll get the van, you get the Conversion Ray.

;)

Remember to switch it off of "bacon" this time. Thought that was a delicious accident...

1st rule of tabletop RPG's, Screw the Min/Max and CharOp Boards.

:P

Agreed, lol

@MadTux Welcome! We don't bite, but we ramble and we have Opinions.

Though I'm not really a great example of where that leads, lol

Oh, wierd. I'm in RPG chat. Looks cool. Nice theme.

gotta do it your own way, no matter how suboptimal people call it.

Thumbs up @Novian

@MadTux cheers

Hey @MadTux

Okay, guys, here's the deal:

@BESW I have onions, that means I'm just lacking pi.

@BESW yes?

> I have no idea about RPG. None. Whatsoever. [...] It sounds very interesting. I feel very limited in Battle for Wesnoth. Only one direction.

Sup @MadTux

@BESW Hey, I said that!

@MadTux And now they know where you're coming from.

Be gentle guys, he doesn't have context.

@MadTux do you have friends/associates/minions who are interested in playing with you, or is it just you at this point?

Indeed. BESW, is the resident magical ninja google-fu master of archeology/adventurer/person

@Problema Just me.

You would need freinds/associates/minions.

Yup, it works better with buds

Hey, you're actually not that bad/evil/biting.

Lies.

@Novian nonsense

first rule of RPG: get your damned requirements straight.

@MadTux it can work by your onesie, but fortunately you're in a chat full of friends/associates/minions who enjoy that sort of thing

@Cat I'll just force my brother and my friends to play. Or find someone.

@waxeagle Fine, Second Rule: Screw the Charops and MinMax Boards.

Sounds great!

@Novian nah, make them subservient to your requirements :P

We can deal with the CharOp Drama later, guys.

Almost typed "demons" instead of "minions" there. Considering the company, probably still fits.

@BESW too true

He's at the "Hao I d20" stage, I think.

I guess it's time to figure out what kind of game you want to play as well.

@BESW 4e's redbox

that's where I'd start

1d20+4

How fast do you all type here?

@MadTux Expect anyone you invite to be skeptical about playing tabletop rpgs the first time. I know I was. unless they already share an interest.

@MadTux depends on what's going on, I'm a coder though, I can type a bit :)

@Novian Hmmmm.

Not everyone will be obviously but TTRPG's are not what some people see spending their saturdays on. what you do is show them how fun it can be.

There are online and offline ways to meet strangers who want to run RPGs, and they're usually harmless, but given your level of experience (and your age) they're probably not ideal for your situation.

If you have a local game shop that hosts games rather than just providing space for them, that might be an option.

How many people do you need?

@MadTux depends on the game

Depends on the game and gamers

Between two and as many as can keep quiet while the guy whose turn it is talks.

I like 3-5.

(much like computer RPGs there are literally 1000s of table top games)

Aw..things are just getting interesting and duty calls! be back later!

Do I need anything apart from a pencil, paper, and a table?

bye @cat

@Cat ciao! don't forget to bury it

Duty: [call]

@MadTux Again, depends on the system.

@MadTux you will probably need source books, either physical or digitals

and almost always dice...

Normal dice?

Or really wierd dice?

@MadTux depends on the system, a lot of games use polyhedral dice

indeed, running some games does require some sort of book full of long lines of text and guidelines.

@MadTux Again, depends on the system. Some use d6s or d10s exclusively. D&D uses ALL the dice.

@MadTux happy medium? most of the time you don't need a d7

Many RPG game systems will want you to have a map and miniatures to represent creatures. Many gamers find that they can adjust or ignore this requirement with some effort.

@BESW from the lowly d2 to the magnificent d20.

@Novian D&D uses the d2, too.

What is good to start with? I've got an iPod that can simulate a d100.

Noted.

@MadTux do you want to play dungeons and dragons or something else?

[cough] sounds like it's time to formalize this.

and how much money are you interested in spending?

[puts on powdered wig]

@BESW we've got some good beginner questions, moment

@MadTux How complicated do you want the game system to be?

[Puts on Suit and Tie, Secretly puts on theives gloves.]

That is, do you want a game that tries to provide specialized rules to look up for each scenario you might encounter?

@BESW he plays Battle for Wesnoth, he's at least used to mildly-complex tactical combat

Or a game that gives more generic rules that can be applied creatively to the situations as they arise?

I have one reccomendation of what not to start with.

Mutants And Masterminds.

@Problematic Just cause he's used to it doesn't mean he wants it in his first RPG. Being overwhelmed with rules can be smothering for some, but it can provide a tangible framework for others.

some good reference questions

[Bwahahahah. My domination of the starred comments rises!]

@BESW okay, I'll concede that point. When I was 14, I would have loved FATE, but all my friends would have hated it. So we used some subset of the D&D rules and called it even.

@MadTux another thing you should know: if @BESW ever achieves total dominance of the starred comments sidebar, he'll ascend to deityhood and consume us all with glorious fire in the process.

@everybody I'm here again!

There's also the fact that D&D is the de facto flagship of RPGs whether we like it or not, and he may feel that it's the proper way to start his experience with the medium.

What have you all been doing just now?

I, of course, shall offer up FATE on a Golden Rule platter when the time comes for recommendations.

@MadTux this is where my group and I started (5/7 of us were complete RPG n00bs) and I highly recommend it if your inerested in D&D:

amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Game/dp/…

Can you get that in Germany?

Looks good, though.

@MadTux amazon.de/Dungeons-Dragons-Fantasy-Roleplaying-Game/dp/… break the onebox

@waxeagle Thanks!

@MadTux It's important to recognize, though, that although D&D is the most commonly known (and possibly most commonly played) RPG in the world, it's not the only one--and that other RPGs can be drastically different

In what way?

@MadTux in every way.

All I can say to that is *

all that to say, if you can think of a concept, there is probably an RPG that models it.

RPGs are similar only in that a group of people get together to pretend that they are other people in another scenario, and they use a set of agreed-upon rules to determine the outcomes of their actions.

Is there a Lord of the Rings RPG?

@MadTux there have been several, not sure if any are currently in print

Oh.

@MadTux they focus on different aspects of gameplay, for starters. D&D is concerned with numbers and their effect on the game (skills, attack bonuses, etc etc), at the expense of some realism; other games might be more concerned with dramatic storytelling, for example.

Both sound good.

They'll also be concerned with different kinds of stories: combat vs social interaction, for example.

Combat and Adventure sounds better.

and they will use different mechanics to determine how conflicts in the story are resolved, dice, tarot cards, rock paper scissors.

It's worth noting that some game systems are generic; that is, they don't have an inherent setting.

Fie, time to get ready for work. I'll be back in about an hour.

The FATE system is deliberately designed to work in any setting (scifi, fantasy, reality, whatever) so long as you want a game experience that emphasizes narrative awesomeness and character development over statistics and realism.

@Problema Fie!

So you could have a LotR game in the FATE system, but it would be a different kind of game (more about people and their personalities, even when there's high-action combat) than if you used, say, GURPS (which would give you a lot of very crunchy numbers and statistics, but not as much mechanical support for the personality type stuff).

How do I use these systems?

Each system has a manual or manuals--it might be a pdf, or a physical book, but it's a book of rules, guidelines, and advice for creating characters, resolving conflicts, and running the game.

So do I download the pdf/buy the book, read it, invite some friends, explain it and go?

Most systems require you to purchase their manual (it's how they make money), but some are free to download.

@MadTux for the majority of games, the source books provide you with two things. Material to fill in the background of your story, and material to resolve conflicts. So, you develop a plot (or get a plot from a pre-written adventure) and the background material lets you set the scene. When your characters get into social situations or fights then the mechanics take over

Basically, yes. One of the people in the group will probably have to be the Game Master (or Dungeon Master, Storyteller, different systems use different names for the role).

[Tux-has-idea] Can one play lotr with D&D?

@MadTux It's a bad idea.

[Tux-wants-to-know-why]

D&D has its own high-magic fantasy setting and tinkering with the level of magic in the system will create major problems with the system's balance.

LotR, by comparison, has precious few wizards throwing fireballs and a magic sword is a lifetime event.

Oh. What's more suitable for LOTR?

Kinda depends on what kind of game you want to have. I've seen a Rangers of Rohan cover for Mouseguard that looked pretty good if you want to focus on that kind of experience.

What kind of adventures do you want to have in ME?

Battles of the fords of Isen?

Fellowship of the Ring?

So, not much magic per se, but heroic action undertaken by more-than-ordinary mortals?

In the second case, yes.

And Gandalf can light trees.

How much do you want it to be about personalities and the story of the people involved, and how much do you want the focus to be on carefully detailed combat? Keeping in mind that neither precludes the other, but there will be a focus on one or the other.

Probably combat.

Oh, telphone

Oh, ******* I missed the call because of that last post.

@MadTux :(

Vanishing suddenly is totally kosher. We know people have lives outside the Internet.

I know, I'm far to polite.

@BESW 6 starred. a domionion indeed.

It's appreciated.

@Novian Yeah, but they won't last long.

the longest lasting starred comment was up there for a few months. it was one of @Brian Ballson-Stanton's I belive.

Very short username.

of course that was a comment of such unanimous opinion its no wonder it had 13 stars and a long life.

Okay, guys, I don't know enough different systems to make really appropriate recs. We need a system that can support a LotR-style setting/magic level, with an emphasis on heroic combat.

@Novian It actually got modbumped back up to the top, so that's artificial longevity.

@BESW Yep.

....hmm. L5R doesnt fit the bill.

Wait. Does this site have an RPG Tag??

I am not sure.

It should be cheap, relatively easy for a total TTRPG noob to teach to other TTRPG noobs, and require minimal extra props because he doesn't have a stash of them yet.

@MadTux It'd get used on just about everything.

I'm thinking the Rangers of Rohan mod for Mouseguard.

....easy and non prop intensive. soo DFRPG is out.

@Novian FATE is probably out as a general rule ([sob]) because of the combat focus.

@BESW probably.

@BESW I'll think up a pun on that post.

D&D is prop intensive. Dice/Books galore. so its out.

And expensive.

very much so.

Does Mouseguard require much in the way of props?

unless your an internet munchkin and pirate the books. which is ill advised.

Mouseguard uses d6es, which is good for our purposes.

As I said, I can simulate dice on my iPod.

I think you'll find that rolling physical dice is pleasing, but digital options are good.

Can you simulate 100 six sided die without your ipod crashing?

iPods are less likely to roll under the couch.

...although it's worse for them if they do.

@Novian Yes.

@BESW yes, nothing like killing something with your own 12D6 save or die.

I could build my own dice. Muahahaha

....MADNESS!

Un moment, tracking down Mouseguard purchase options to see price and Germanic availability.

Amazon.de (I can't read it very well, so just giving you the search), and if you can buy things from rpgnow, they've got the pdf.

Mouseguard is of middling complexity, with some very interesting non-combat challenge options too. To make it LotR instead of mousey, use this free Realm Guard modification, which is designed to support Fourth Age adventures using the Mouseguard undercarriage.

I'm sure someone else will have another suggestion, but that's mine at the moment.

what's mousey?

Literally, in Mouseguard you play as mice.

Mice have established a safe kingdom protected from predators, and you play the brave little squeakers who patrol the borders of their haven.

It translates pretty well to Ranger-type adventures.

Enduring monsters as well as environmental hazards to keep an area safe for the citizenry.

Sounds silly, but if you can LOTRise it . . .

Yup.

That looks like the only manual you need to play Mouseguard.

So if nobody else has a better idea, I just put it on my birthday wish list and get started?

Pretty much.

cool.

Given the specific criterion though, I think this could actually be turned into a good RPG.SE system-recommendation question.

OK

What sort of title? 'What is a good system to play LOTR?'?

hehe - ?'?

@MadTux no, it's be like a gaming tag on arqade

What?

@MadTux If you click the grey arrow to the right of his comment, you'll see which of your comments he's referring to.

@MadTux Yes, that's a decent title. Just be sure to be more specific inside the post: system recommendations need to have very clear requirements that make it easy for someone to know if their recommendation is likely to be helpful.

@MadTux sorry, reading backscroll, generally tags that are or directly refer to the site name are blacklisted from the getgo

I'll just go and write the question.

In your case: cheap, simple to learn and teach for people new to TTRPGs, combat-focuses, and built for or able to support a LotR style fantasy setting.

Low-prop would be good too. (You don't want to have to buy a lot of dice or other tools any more than you want to pay a lot of money for the manuals.)

...this has been a good night for stars.

Oh, come on. That's just silly.

hehe. I know.

It's 0115, and I should go to bed.

My jetlag might let me rest.

Good night.

G'night. I look forward to seeing that question tomorrow.

@BESW I'll happily clear that if you want :P

The question's here.

cuz that's totally a mod power :P

@Aether, @Problematic Please let Maurycy know to start finalizing his PC, and I hope to consider rules and procedures in the next few days before we start.

@waxeagle I don't want to trample on the rights of the people, but it is getting ridiculous. Mod's call.

@BESW Has almost reached starred supremacy.

@BESW yeah, it's silly

Spoil-sports.

I'm okay with it if people actually like what I say, but I don't want to just take up space.

@MadTux I know, but we say enough pithy things in here that it's worth keepings stars just for those

@MadTux Do you want to play out the Lord of the Rings story, or do you want to play your own stories in the Middle-Earth setting?

I did like that 'good night for stars' one.

Both.

@MadTux That'll larn ya, then: when things go overboard, the good tends to get thrown out with the bad.

Thanks for the edit, @BESW

My pleasure.

No, mine.

... I propose renaming this place to the @BESW General Chat

@Problematic no

I'm not sure your opinion counts much in the matter, sir :P

@Problematic Not until he dominates the starred list. And really dominates it, too; people with screens up to 1300 or so height need to see only BESW comments in the starred list.

You guys have got weird tags.

@MadTux You can make anything look like a tag.

@MadTux He just used the tag formatting; we don't actually have a no tag.

 [tag:word]

thats-absurd

hey

i don't think it likes apostrophes

Ahh.

[applause]

... somebody is abusing stars.

@ObliviousSage Thanks for the edit, by the way.

@Problematic 0:-)

Would threatening to flood the chat with ponies make it stop?

. . .

@MadTux You're welcome. I still think it could stand to be more specific, but I think at this point it's got enough requirements that a diamond mod will add a comment saying, "Make it more specific, please," instead of just closing it out of hand.

I don't know enough to be more specific.

@MadTux Princess Celestia demands your compliance.

@BESW I had to DuckDuckGo that.

duckduckgo.com/?q=princess+celestia

@MadTux A hipster, eh?

@Problematic Who?

Princess Celestia? Probably not.

Damn kids and their newfangled searchmajiggers

It's linuxy though. Linuxy is good.

More importantly, it doesn't record every single search you make, the way Google does.

And it looks better.

And it has goodies.

And it's FOSS.

@ObliviousSage I actually consider that a feature.

@Problematic You consider Google tracking all your searches so they put ads in your GMail window a feature?

ponies!

@ObliviousSage I consider personalization a feature. The ads are a side effect that don't bother me.

@ObliviousSage Yes.

Oh, man. Rob beat me by under 30 seconds.

Goodbye, easy silver.

@BESW I like the idea of mice instead of hobbits

@Problematic One of the primary struggles in a Mouseguard game is overcoming one's mouseyness.

@BESW yeah, I'm at least passingly familiar with the system. I think my favorite part is that advancement requires failures as well as successes.

Aye.

@Problematic After all, mice ordered the earth to be made.

I think MG is well-suited for Middle-Earth stories because it supports heroism, but requires struggle and suffering to achieve it.

Sounds very good.

Unless you're Bard, you don't win your victories easily in Middle-Earth.

That would, after all, be boring.

@Problematic Yeah, I like that part. Ironically, I also like the reverse aspect (double jeopardy) in Unknown Armies' madness system, where passing or failing too many madness checks can drive you crazy.

@ObliviousSage You understand OR fail to understand too much?

@ObliviousSage sounds... precarious

That actually sound quite cool.

Failing madness checks basically breaks down your hold on reality. Passing madness checks essentially makes you not care about things; if there's too much you don't care about, you turn into a sociopath.

@MadTux I strongly advise you avoid sanity systems until you've got some more normal RPG experience with whatever group you want to play them with.

Oops. This track pad keeps doing things on it's own.

@BESW yes, too true.

hard to roleplay, hard to model, hard to deal with.

and it's extra complication. Even if it's fun

So can a character become insane?

It's just not good for a group that doesn't know each other well to role-play insanity without creeping each other out and making IRL problems.

@MadTux Yes! Sanity systems are tricksy, hard for noobs to use properly, and not at all appropriate in a LotR setting.

@MadTux in games like Call of Cthulu and others, yes

Denethor?

There are game systems entirely designed around the struggle to retain (or lose) one's sanity.

In a LotR type of experience, sanity isn't lost often enough to justify a subsystem.

It's more of a storytelling element.

TTRPG – Tickle Torcher Role Playing Game?

@MadTux wrong kind of RPG :P

sad trombone

@MadTux Tragically Tangential Reality-Piercing Gimmick?

@Problematic happy cello

@BESW Absulutely

Actually, "TT" is for table-top.

What? No. I'd never have guessed it.

It differentiates from live action roleplay (LARP), play-by-chat/post/email roleplay (PbC, PbP, PbeM), computer/video game RPGs, etc. Although LARP and PbX both usually use systems close enough to TTs that they're welcomed on this site.

What about CRPG?

CRPG questions are sent to Arqade.

The primary point of difference being that the RPGs we deal with use human arbitration rather than electronic.

Why Arqade?

@MadTux "computer rpgs"

Because it's the SE for computer and video games.

Oh.

At the end of the day, CRPGs have more in common with other computer/video games than with non-electronic RPGs.

@BESW What time is it over there?

0155 Wednesday morning. Drat.

@BESW when you go to bed, the starred message churn will drop by about 98%

@MadTux yes, but it would still be considered a computer RPG

It is, after all, on the computer.

In a CRPG you're limited by the things the programmers were able to think of for you to be able to do. They can get creative with algorithms to expand options a little, but ultimately you're limited by the program.

There, the fun is more in expanding, I love writing Wesnoth levels, for example.

A TTRPG is limited by the ability of the people at the table to work together to tell a story, nothing more. If the rules you've chosen to use get in the way of the story you want to tell, you can change them or throw them out. If someone wants to wander into a place the GM hadn't mapped out, the GM can make stuff up on the spot (or request a snack break while he studies/makes notes).

Sounds like a lot of work for the GM

It can be. Some considering GMing a chore to be rotated through the group.

But it sounds more fun inventing.

I love GMing, and am currently exploring systems that share the creative work traditionally reserved for the GM with the rest of the group.

I've done both: coming in with a carefully prepared world for the players to explore, and coming in with only a vague notion of the setting and NPCs and letting the players' actions inform the decisions I made as we played.

What about a sort of community GM - where everybody does GMing together?

They're both very fulfilling in very different ways.

@MadTux FATE

Still haven't thought up a dreadful pun on FATE.

@MadTux There are GMless games where the responsibility is shared equally among all the players. FATE is not actually one of them; it's a game with shared responsibility, but there's still one guy the buck always stops at.

@MadTux some games support cooperative story telling, or even don't have a GM, but a lot of GMs have a more adversarial PC GM relationship that doesn't lend itself well to multiple GMs per session

again, just about every concept has a spectrum

@MadTux It stands for Fantastic Adventures in Tabletop Entertainment.

@BESW It didn't a few posts ago!

Are all the players on one team, with the GM as 'bad guy', or can the players have different teams as well?

@MadTux Again, different systems do it differently.

@MadTux it depends? generally it's cooperative play, but not always

Traditionally (IE, the way D&D did it), the players are a team of characters (one per player) and the GM runs everything else in the world whether friendly or not.

typically the story is king and everyone works together to create an excellent story, the GM provides conflict and the PCs work together to solve it and everyone works together to develop a story, but that's not always true.

Paranoia is designed to encourage over-the-top backstabbing and betrayal among players at every step of the way, because that's the game experience it aims for. (You start play with a six-pack of your character, because they expect you to die that often.)

Wow.

Your choice of game system will heavily inform the kind of experience you have at the table.

I don't think backstabbing companions fits to LOTR.

I prefer systems where everyone at the table is working together to tell an interesting story, even if the characters we play are at odds with each other.

@MadTux Then you'll be happy to learn Mouse Guard encourages teamwork.

Good

Oh, supper time! See you soon!

ARUGH I MUST TO BED.

i Personally like it when a DM takes my backstory into account and realises I worked hard on a character. it makes the work feel all that much better.

More likely than not its just a desire for the acceptance of the odd hobby of creating characters ive developed.

I Write Backstories alot. I also have a tendency to make ECL 10 D&D characters in my free time.

Mind you these arent the most Opped Characters but they fit a theme, so I can write about them.

10 is about that level in D&D that you are a damn good asskicker. not yet godlike in your magnificence but not weaker than a truespeaker baby.

Can I draw any mods attention to the comments on this question please? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/25378/…

I don't mind criticism of my opinions, but that goes far too far

@Phil flag those comments

I have

@Phil k, any additional comments will just inflame the situation, so it's up to our mods to show up...

yeah, looks like they have as all the comments have miraculously disappeared

Thanks to whoever did that

He potentially did it himself.

@Phil well, offensive flags can be enough to delete comments if you get enough of them

Is there a way of editing an existing comment, or can you only delete it?

@waxeagle Ah, cool. Thanks, I didn't realise that

@Phil you have a small edit window (5 minutes)

Darn. Its just that I'd like to remove the reference to personal insults from my comment and would rather not delete the whole thing

Meh, deleted then