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00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

22:00
@Novian arrays work, point-buy works
@BESW in 3.5 at least, the variance is still far too wide
also, I'm not sure there is a maximum past which you must reroll
I generally let my players roll if they wanted, keeping the boundary re-roll rules, and if they wanted to take the array instead after they saw their roll, that was fine. If they wanted point-buy, that replaced rolling.
In 4e there is. It's a suggestion rather than a hard rule, but it's there.
the minimum in 3.5 is that you must have a net-positive modifier
And at least one 14.
8, 8, 8, 14, 12, 12? you can't do anything well at all
Has anyone ever rolled six eighteens?
22:02
and your buddy rolled 18, 18, 16, 15, 14, 13?
well, have fun
I'm not arguing that with you.
@Jonn_Underwood it happens
@BESW there is no reason why these things are good for any game aside maybe from a one-shot
@Jonn_Underwood yes right in front of my GM.
Netted me a Forced Reroll.
if you are keeping the character, it does not make sense for critical and baseline characteristics to be randomly decided
22:02
@KRyan There is no reason within your desired experience.
Did you get to keep them?
@Jonn_Underwood No. he would never let me.
@BESW no desired experience that includes these things being randomly decided is going to be achieved in 3.5
Oh, is he strict with everything?
the system penalizes you too hard for weak scores, does not present options for mitigating these problems, and character creation takes too damn long
22:04
no. but do you want someone with 6 18's Before stat mods running around?
I'm not arguing the poor quality of the choice mechanically, but I will fiercely argue that some people like it that way.
@BESW they like it that way out of ignorance, either of how not-rolling can improve their game or of other systems that work better for what they want
I've personally run with groups that enjoyed Commoner Adventures and Fatal Flaw Adventures.
If it happened in my group I'd let the player keep them.
@BESW and that's not random
22:05
@Jonn_Underwood bad idea.
Lol I know.
it absolutely can be fun to do those kinds of things (though 3.5 is still a weak system for it), but it's not fun to be randomly forced into doing that when everyone else is playing a hero
sometimes being weaker than everyone else is fun.
having all 18's is not.
Tis why Kobold is fun.
Having all 18s can be fun if your a power gamer
@Novian and if you choose it, more power to you. should never be forced on you cuz dice
@Novian kobold is one of the most powerful races in 3.x after Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic got finished with em
22:07
Power comes not from stats but clever use of the things you build onto them.
@Jonn_Underwood having any particular array can be fun for all kinds of reasons
@KRyan not by itself with no optimization.
but these are things that are far too important to be decided randomly
That is true to both of you
You know what really sucks?
@Novian "no optimization" is a fallacy; there's no such thing, there's just a continuum of optimization, from very-low to very-high
the only time there is no optimization is when things are chosen randomly
there is no optimizing in FATAL for instance
22:08
Having to roll all your scores then having them put in the order they were rolled.
actually,
that's not even true
No rerolls allowed
@Jonn_Underwood What kind of DM is that Evil?
That doesnt allow for any sort of building at all.
Lol I don't know
you get two choices in FATAL, your name and your gender, and choosing Male absolutely is the optimal choice in FATAL, because the authors were hideously misogynistic.
22:09
@Novian That's oldschool.
@Novian Gary Gygax, for one. That was the original default, as I understand it
What kinda crap is that?
@Jonn_Underwood to which?
Yeah gygax was intense.
The males are better thing
Gygax was indeed evil.
22:09
@Jonn_Underwood personally, I think he wasn't "intense," he was just a terrible DM
@Jonn_Underwood it's FATAL, the unarguably and unargued worst RPG of all time
it has utterly zero competition in this regard
Sure sounds like it
I just thought of something Ironic. I hate D&D point buy but like L5R as a whole.
22:11
Legend of the 5 rings.
or some such variation.
@Jonn_Underwood if you don't value your sanity overmuch, there's a fairly humerous review of it. Warnings about vulgar language, not to mention some extremely unpleasant subject material.
Lol
Sounds fun
I suggest looking it up on tvtropes
they have a page on it, which at least last I checked had links to the review, the rebuttal, the response to the rebuttal, as well as their own Let's Read thread on the subject
22:13
I think that point buy is a pretty decent method but my group prefers rolling.
numerous aspects of any of these things might trigger bouts of homi-and/or-sui-cide
point buy works rather well but arguably favors casters
Im Starting to dislike Mutants and Masterminds.
What is that?
since they don't care about dumping everything but their favored stat
a superhero game
22:14
I'm not really familiar with it, but what I've heard is that it makes 3.x look balanced
indeed.
Anyone here try D&D next?
no; everything I've heard of that sounds pretty awful too
though someone whose opinion I trust did say he liked some of the things in the latest ones
enough that he might try it
That's what I'm currently playing
M&M makes playing a 3.0 Magister Templated character in 3.5 balanced.
22:15
but most of what I've heard sounded like they were taking the worst aspects of each previous version of D&D
Lol
So I'm guessing 3.5 if your favorite?
@Jonn_Underwood If i had to pick a version. 3.5 is my favorite. 4.0 irks me.
its just the little things.
that dont matter to most people.
like powers?
22:18
The feel of the game is different.
It doesnt feel like D&D.
That is true
Powers are a bit weird.
3.5 is the game I have the most familiarity with
I like a lot of ideas in 4e but I have not actually gotten a chance to try it
Familiarity does play a part in it too.
I started with 4E and I was trapped in a hole with that for a while.
22:19
and do find the fact that every character has the same resources and the same number of things that use those resources to be a bit limiting
in 3.5, at least, an important part of the "feel" of a given class was how its resources worked
I can Build a 3.5 character in a few minutes, 4.0 characters take me a while and cant do near as much Optimization as I can in 3,5
spellcasters saved spells, initiators used maneuvers as rapidly as possible, etc.
I personally like 3.5 and AD&D 1st the best
Fighter was a class that didnt require a lot of thought....'
I haven't played 2nd edition so can't say anything about it.
22:21
@Novian in 3.5? that's not even remotely true
What are the reroll rules in 3.5 for having scores to high?
there are so many feats available, and so many of them are awful, and you need to do so much work just to get competence in things, and you never have an opportunity to fix any mistakes, and on and on
@Jonn_Underwood as far as I know there aren't any, though there should be
@KRyan Fighter = I hit things.
Are there any rules in 3.5 allow to retrain feats and skill points?
22:23
@Jonn_Underwood I think perhaps in the DMG?
@Novian true but you must also ask how do I hit things?
@Jonn_Underwood with a sword.
@Jonn_Underwood DMG2 IIRC
maybe it was PHB2
one of the 2's
@Novian that's a Warrior, not a Fighter
There are so many builds for the fighter in 3.5
22:24
@KRyan ah yes.
a Fighter needs to choose feats
@KRyan I suppose Im just biased against fighter. they bore me to death.
@Novian which is odd, since you're complimenting the class
I have yet to be a player in 3.5 I don't have a willing DM
22:25
Complimenting?
@Novian being simple is generally a sign of at least decent design
the Fighter advertises itself as simple, not requiring much knowledge of the system or thought into your choices
That is true. Einstien said that simplicity is beauty
but it's actually one of the least forgiving classes to play
@KRyan ....
which, once again, brings me back to the fact that 99% of the problems in 3.x stem from the fact that the system(s) lie to you about the efficacy of options.
@Novian a wizard who chooses his spells poorly can choose new spells the next day
a fighter who chooses his feats poorly can... commit seppuku?
22:27
Lol of he's still alive
@KRyan I suppose.
I meant if not of
@Jonn_Underwood you can edit your comments
just saying
highlight it, and there will be a down arrow on the left side. Click that and choose Edit
22:29
Can't highlight I'm on an IPad
ah, well never mind then
at any rate, yes, "if he's still alive" but that applies equally to the Fighter
@Jonn_Underwood He doesn't mean select
Hey BESW!
@BESW you really can't use most of the chat options on a mobile device
maybe it's better on a tablet than a phone though
I'm not familiar with iPad interfaces, but with a mouse you simply hover the cursor over line you want to select and an arrow for a drop-down menu appears on the left.
@Jonn_Underwood Hi.
22:30
anyway, I've gotta get going
Yeah you can't highlight of hover with IPad
try clicking on the line?
Ok see you later
Tried that nothing happened
The Fairy Nuff once again wonders why the two largest OS designers in the world simultaneously decided their desktop products should more closely mimic their mobile products.
I guess it's set on on.mouse.over
22:32
Had my second session of D&D next today
I'm getting the beta test but I'm not playing it. How is it?
It's pretty cool actually
I was kinda against it when I first heard of it, but then I actually read the rules
(I've seen they have accepted my comment on "better explain if advantage and disadvantage cancel each other on a 1-on-1 basis or totally")
@BESW ) i dunno. I dislike windows 8
its weird.
Said to be close to Cheesecake Factory's Blackout Cake or Linda's Fudge Cake:

BLACKOUT CAKE

FOR THE CAKE:
3/4 cup (1 1/2 sticks) butter, softened
3 cups sugar
3 eggs
3 tsp vanilla extract, divided use
4 oz unsweetened chocolate, melted
3 cups flour
3 tsp baking soda
1/2 tsp salt
3/4 cup buttermilk
1 1/3 cup boiling water
FOR THE CHOCOLATE GANACHE:
3 pkg (6 oz each) semisweet chocolate chips (3 cups)
1 1/2 cups heavy cream
2 tbsp butter, cut up
1 tsp vanilla
3/4 cup roasted almonds, diced (for garnish)
22:35
My main concern with it is that it still tries to get stories from rules that only tell you how much damage your character does
Cake?
LIEZ
Oh jeez sorry that was an accident
Yeah I hit paste then I accidentally hit done
THE CAKE IS A LIE
The LIE IS A LIE WHICH IS TRUE.
22:36
GO. PLAY. PORTAL.

NOW!
Portal is awesome.
because Physics
And you will know what "the cake is a lie" means
It's an important thing to know
22:38
Anyone know what en garde is?
a RPG
En Garde! is a role-playing game set in 17th century Paris. Players take the roles of gentlemen duellists. The game was designed by Frank Chadwick and first published by Game Designers' Workshop (GDW) in 1975. History In the 1980s the game had become widely played by mail but GDW did not reprint it when stocks were exhausted. Theo Clarke and Paul Evans ran a game for over 20 players at the UK Gamesfair in 1983. Evans then wrote a BASIC computer program to administer the game and they ran increasingly large games at successive games fairs. Evans started a postal game using the same comp...
A French exclamation?
I am required to inform you that once testing is complete, you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
Zachiel steps aside
22:39
Ah ok, it what's going on in the other chat room
Yes, it is
We were going to bake that cake for my mother on her birthday
What happened then?
But since neither me my dad nor any of four brothers know shit about baking...
@Zachiel a Woman on a horse strode in and split the coffee table in two with a Naginata?
22:40
@Jonn_Underwood Or not going on in the other chat room. :P
My dad bought a chocolate cake, that was pretty good
Lol yeah it's SOOO slow, I don't think they've begun playing yet
Any FATE player here?
Not I
@vinipsmaker Yo.
KRyan was just saying how FATE is the WORST RPG in existence
22:42
@Jonn_Underwood FATAL, not FATE
But I have nothing on that
@BESW: Hey man, thanks for the answer previously
Oh yeah oops
FATAL sorry
@vinipsmaker No problem. Unfortunately, as I said in the comment, I'm not sure it's quite right for a video game context.
Digimon RPG.
22:43
@BESW, I don't know the system rules. Can you explain why you think that?
the only official one is terrible.
@BESW I meant to ask previously - what are the consequences for losing or winning the game? Is it something that the players have specifically requested?
FATE is based on the idea of using short, pithy phrases like Perpetually Broke, Wizard Private Eye, or Too Trusting, instead of ability stats.
Fabulio is the most ridiculous name for an 8ft tall barbarian with long blonde hair...
22:45
When you take lasting damage, it comes in the form of more phrases like Broken Leg or Dislocated Shoulder.
@BESW this can be a problem.
=(
Yeah I've been reading of the FATE rules and it sounds pretty cool, but sadly no one on my group agrees.
These phrases are used to justify the expenditure of game currency. They're also used to describe the environment: Dim and Crowded, Lots of Pipes, etc.
So.... yeah, I think it'd be hard to code something able to parse such an open-ended language-based system.
Maybe not, I think a game like that would be awesome
@Aether In FATE? You mean like losing a conflict?
22:47
I liked the large community of FATE and its liveness. I wanna use this system in my eletronic game
Wait yeah that would be hard to code but it would be cool
Because like most RPGs, FATE doesn't exactly have a win/lose condition on the entire game.
@BESW Ah, I think you were talking of something else. I thought you were talking about your DFRPG video game skill question.
@Aether Ah, yeah. I have the answer for that, though.
@BESW In which case, my question applies to that.
22:48
It'd depend on the kind of game being played, but a contest has either a set number of rounds or a target number.
I'm gomna go for a bit I'll be back in a little while.
So, for example, in a PvP video game match you'd each make opposed rolls and the winner gets a number of "shifts" equal to the amount by which he'd beaten the other guy's roll.
@BESW I'm still interested to know if you had different ideas for a win and a loss in the video-game-in-game
You keep making those rolls until someone hit an agreed-upon cap, like 10.
@Novian cool
22:50
In terms of consequences for winning or losing, it's like any other conflict.
and yes. FATAL easily qualifies for worst attempt at a manual ever
The winner gets to narrate the loser's defeat, in a manner appropriate for the context of the conflict (as agreed on by the whole group), but the loser gets to make adjustments to the narrative if it goes blatantly against his PC's character.
Do you, fate players, think its easy to extend the rules to be more precise or this task would need to restructure the entire game?
@vinipsmaker Well, I'm not sure if the dice system it uses is CC or just OGL, but I suspect you could start there.
If your game setting is focused enough you might be able to create a magnetic poetry kind of system for creating the phrases (called aspects).
22:56
Actually, I've been working on a FATE Core variant setting that might provide you with some ideas in that vein.
> High Concept: Hounds of God restricts high concepts by limiting it to a choice of three traits: a Profession, an Attitude, or a Relationship. Once you’ve chosen your trait, come up with a specific word or phrase in that category and add “Peasant” to it as appropriate.
A FATE Core variant? Do you have early access? Did you backed the project?
=)
"Peasant Shepherd, Peasant First-born Son, Dreamy Peasant."
@vinipsmaker Yes, anyone who contributed at least $10 to the kickstarter got the beta pdfs.
@BESW cool
23:12
@BESW hey you remember that question I asked "what are the benefits of role playing?"
Aye.
And you said maybe we could come up with something that is a valid question
what did you have in mind?
Anyone know what Thor's hammer is called
In Norse mythology, Mjölnir ( or ; also Mjǫlnir, Mjollnir, Mjölner or Mjølner) is the hammer of Thor, the Norse god of thunder. Distinctively shaped, Mjölnir is depicted in Norse mythology as one of the most fearsome weapons, capable of leveling mountains. Though generally recognized and depicted as a hammer, Mjölnir is sometimes referred to as an axe or club. In the 13th century Prose Edda, Snorri Sturluson relates that the Svartálfar Sindri, the brother of Brokkr, made Mjölnir while in a contest with Loki to see who could make the most wonderful and useful items for the Gods and Godd...
Ah thank you.
@Jonn_Underwood Not sure. It depends on where the question came from, and I don't have the time to get into that discussion now.
23:21
Ok, understood.
My dad asked me where Roleplaying is going to get me.
That's where the question came from.
Ah.
Well, I'm not sure how to massage that into a site question.
Lol me neither.
But I imagine there are people here in chat who have ideas about answers.
Language, communication, visualization, logistics, interpersonal skills, etc.
23:24
Lol so many things
I honestly Roleplaying is possibly one of the most beneficial hobbies out there.
Think
Curse not being able to edit!
So how is FATE going?
Not bad. Starting the first session of the campaign proper tomorrow.
Oh that's exciting
We've got a changeling teenager who doesn't know he's a changeling yet --trickster, specializes in social conflicts-- and a young handyman who's basically MacGyver.
Lol that sounds fun
How do you play a by post game in a chat room?
@Jonn_Underwood In En Garde! we were doing it via email.
The chat room was more of a coordination and conversation hub.
23:34
Oh ok. How does it work though? Like do you send your emails to everyone in the group?
For that one, we all sent our plays to Brian, and he collated them, compared, did the math, and then posted the results of the turn in a narrative format.
Oh I see
It may be different for other games.
Do you think you could do a D&D game like that?
En Garde is very much a PvP game, so knowing one person's play before you post your play for the same turn would be unfair.
23:37
Oh ok
I've heard of it, but I've never seen it. En Garde is the only PbP I've ever been in.
I wonder how it would be
Like if it be fun. And if everyone would be on time and stuff
Timing would be an issue.
Would be fun*
Yeah that's what I thought
23:59
@Jonn_Underwood I've tried a play by post using the Anima Prime RPG. You forget to post and all halts for a day. And we're talking of a game where you can go in whichever order you like during turns.
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