TRPG General Chat

BESW

07:00

I'm talking about the generic adventurer's experience, in which he spends time stabbing kobolds before he get to Sigil.

Lord_Gareth

That'd be why I keep saying "Yeah, from a Prime perspective Sigil is heinous"

But Sigil does have its own versions of 'stabbing kobolds'. Gangs of rogue bladelings, raider-gangs using portals to pirate from Prime worlds, infestations of Gadacros, turf wars between rival factions, hardscrabble lives in the slums....

BESW

@Lord_Gareth That actually supports my general point: in any setting with immediate or easy access to NPCs of significantly higher capability, it's an uphill struggle for the PCs' exploits to seem meaningful.

Lord_Gareth

I'd say that no matter what, below a certain level your exploits aren't really meaningful. At least if you push back some kobolds or banish some Gadacros back to the Abyss you know you've protected the innocent.

BESW

You may recall the question a couple months ago from the GM whose Lawful player regularly expected the authorities to help.

@Lord_Gareth The easiest way to make it meaningful is to have the party be the only ones who could do it.

When people who could achieve the same effect more easily and quickly without mussing the part in their hair are walking past....

Lord_Gareth

In Sigil it's significant because the PCs have a reason to care, one, and two because generally speaking the powerful beings walking past in Sigil are fiends and do not give a damn.

BESW

07:05

The GM has to create increasingly transparent reasons for the NPCs not to help.

Lord_Gareth

Sigil is a lawless city, for the most part. If the PCs want someone to succor the innocent it pretty much has to be them because anyone else either A. wants to be paid B. is evil or C. is already succoring all kinds of the innocent and has filled their plate by now

I've never run into issues using the City of Doors as a setting in which player agency is meaningful

BESW

@Lord_Gareth A. Because D&D's economy is screwed, you can usually afford to higher someone to cast fireball at the kobolds and still get a decent percentage of the profits.

@Lord_Gareth Most of the time, players are eager to ignore these issues because it's not fun if you think about it.

And I'm not making a Sigil-specific argument. I'm making a general case.

Lord_Gareth

Well, your first point is an issue with D&D's economy and more importantly with the demographic rules for cities in general (Prime or otherwise) than it is with Sigil.

BESW

The existance of Sigil is a point in my case.

Lord_Gareth

And generally speaking I find that 'solution' easy to answer by emphasizing the fact that adventurers are insane.

It takes a certain quality (insanity) to deliberately enter a profession where you have more lethal combats per day than meals.

BESW

07:09

Yeeeah.... which makes for a very specific kind of game that a lot of people don't want to play.

Lord_Gareth

No, seriously. Would you accept payment from a paramilitary group to go do their job for them?

BESW

Sure, it works, but I just spent a year and a half helping a player who wanted his character to go from psychotic adventurer to something a little more healthy, and struggled mightily because the nature of the game makes it so hard.

@Lord_Gareth I recently started having the party be the paramilitary group.

Lord_Gareth

'Cause if I were that 5th level wizard and not already an adventurer, the answer would be "Hell no man, I enjoy living. Fight your own combat. Come back if you want something easy like scrolls."

BESW

D&D is a weird game.

Lord_Gareth

My point being that your average adventuring party is in point of fact already a paramilitary group

And thus paying other people to do your job is sort of...well, sort of embarassing

BESW

07:11

@Lord_Gareth Contract work!

Lord_Gareth

Still ends up hurting your rep and making you look weak.

BESW

It's no more embarrassing than a construction company hiring a construction company to do construction.

A lot of this boils down to the inability of D&D as a system to provide motivation beyond profit and XP.

Lord_Gareth

I'd say it is, myself. In any event, like I said, generally speaking in Sigil or in Grayhawk the powerful people are Freaking Busy and Would You Please Do It Yourself.

(Sadly this is not an acceptable explanation in FR, but FR is horrible anyway and should not be inflicted on people you love)

BESW

@Lord_Gareth Which gets really silly when you give your players an "end of the world" scenario and NOBODY WANTS TO HELP.

Lord_Gareth

I have found the "Keep the guys busy" thing to be very useful. A lot of times my PCs think up uses for people that also keep them out of the way.

BESW

07:15

I refer you back to my "increasingly transparent excuses" comment earlier.

Lord_Gareth

No, no, you misunderstand

Like, oh, let's go for the game I've been running

Which involves a threat to the world by an insane angel on the cusp of apotheosis. If she becomes a god, she'll remake the entire world in the image of what she thinks Celestia is and her light will eat free will from the inside out until only Her merciless purity remains.

At first, the PCs didn't even know she was a problem. They were putting down unusual insurgences of mutant creatures shedding a strange, golden light that burnt and blinded

BESW

As you do.

Also: "Celestia." Hee.

Lord_Gareth

Then, as it became clear that a pattern was emerging, an 'invasion' of refugees fleeing the cult of the angels hit shore

The PCs quick leadership proved essential in turning the blow aside with a minimum of bloodshed and finding out what the hell was going on.

In the last leg of the campaign, they suggested to the various nations of their continent that they hunker down and fortify and offered to lead a daring raid deep into the territory of the Cult to assassinate Her generals, lure the angel out, and find a way to destroy her. All their idea.

BESW

You successfully conveyed to the players a sense of their own significance.

Lord_Gareth

Indeed, and I also gave them reasons to want powerful people at home in case they fucked up

Namely, they had family, loved ones, and nations to defend

BESW

07:20

That is your accomplishment, not the system's.

Lord_Gareth

I'd say that the error belongs to setting writers, not the system itself. The metro population rules aside, D&D does not assume the presence of high level friendly things that live on the same plane as you

And the ones that live on other planes are sort of busy murdering Balors

Admittedly

The Balors are blessedly sort of busy murdering celestials

And not, say, you

BESW

I'm not really sure I can set aside the rules for how to populate the world when considering the world's population.

Lord_Gareth

I can, since WotC clearly whipped them out of their rear ends with zero considerations as to the consequences or any kind of sense being made, not to mention fluff.

I mean, jeez, they assume that every class has roughly equal practitioners

BESW

And if you're going to argue setting via Sigil, I get to argue it too.

Lord_Gareth

Those tables generate level 20 commoners

Sigil doesn't really have demographics for the whole city. Sigil has demographics for its factions, each of whom has a detailed writeup on the classes and tactics they favor, and then for its slums, which are likewise given much love and care.

BESW

07:23

@Lord_Gareth I would expect a vast majority of higher level NPCs to be commoners, actually, though by reducing the number of other classes at high levels rather than increasing the number of commoners.

You're just not gonna last that long unless you're totally inocouous.

Lord_Gareth

I would say that past a certain point aforementioned Commoner has enough life experience that they should have levels in Expert at the very least

If not a PC class

I mean, jeez, by those tables there's an epic peasant in Waterdeep somewhere, probably insidiously plotting to grow corn in Undermountain

BESW

You don't need to be an Expert class to put your 2 skill points into Profession (potato peeler) and Perform (mouth harp) every level.

2

Lord_Gareth

Anyway, I tend to have success in ignoring those tables and populating my world...as needed. If I'm trying to tell a rise to power story, the PCs are exceptional people in a world full of low level NPCs (like Eberron)

BESW

I agree.

Lord_Gareth

I'd give another example

But that tends to be the game I run

BESW

07:26

But one thing I like about 4e is that it assumes that for me already.

The PoL setting is the only D&D setting I've ever felt met my needs as a world my players could easily feel important in.

Lord_Gareth

Eberron. Do Eberron!

The only high-level being that isn't evil can't leave her home city

BESW

And thus it is the only setting I've ever used; prior to that, I ran my own worlds.

Lord_Gareth

And, um, may be being eaten from the inside-out by a god

BESW

@Lord_Gareth I... also like PoL because it has no close canon.

I avoid settings where the players can tell me I'm wrong.

Lord_Gareth

Ah, see, I don't usually run into that problem, but then again I tend to avoid FR/Grayhawk/Settings that don't have lots of mysteries

Eberron deliberately keeps a lot of things mysterious

And is very helpful like that.

BESW

07:29

Heh.

Lord_Gareth

And as most folks who know me will tell you, I hate FR with a burning passion.

Ed Greenwood needs to suffer for that abomination

In any event I do tend to run my settings, where I define as much as I strictly need to at any given time, and if I'm not running my own setting it's to indulge my love of Planescape (so huge that if you want to set something, it's got a spot for you) or Ravenloft (BWAHAHAHAHAHA RAVENLOFT)

BESW

I generally build a new setting for each campaign, though they often take place in roughly the same world and major events or characters will get referenced.

Lord_Gareth

ATM I'm actually attempting to write a setting for Legend

A continent called Shatterholm

BESW

How very Dwarf Fortress.

Lord_Gareth

Heh. The name's got two layers of meaning for the locals

The first is a reference to the fact that their cultures have risen from the ashes of a magocalypse that re-wrote the laws of reality, reshaped the continents, shattered the laws of magic and slaughtered entire races.

The second is a reference to the six great rivers that divide it into sections, giving it the look of a sundered shield

Big theme of Bronze Age style heroism where the PCs go forth to make the land safe for civilization and defend the innocent from horrors beyond imagination.

BESW

07:35

Cool. Actually sounds a lot like PoL.

Pockets of civilization hanging on and trying to expand in a savage wilderness that overtook the ruins of an older empire.

Lord_Gareth

Very proud of the work I did on the deities. There's knowledge in Shatterholm that once there were many gods, but almost all of them died in the Magocalypse and now a pantheon of five new gods have risen to shepard the races

BESW

Mother, Father, Brother, Sister, Bastard?

Lord_Gareth

Nah, one from each race.

Gurag-Thul, the Lord Victorious, God of Storms, Honorable Battle, Justice, Oaths, and Patron of the Orcs

Sonya, the Lady of Tears, the Weeper, Goddess of Travel, of Defenders, and of Grief, Patron of the Drow

Namarra, the Green Lady, Goddess of Plants and of Animals, the Savage Lady, Sister to Elf-Kin

Kal the Shaper, God of Duty, Self-Sacrifice, Fire, Clan, and Craftsman, King Over the Dwarves

And the Peaceful and Wrathful One, Goddess of the Moon, of Magic, of Second Chances, of the Unwanted, and Patron to Humankind

BESW

Might want to throw some seasons into those portfolios.

Lord_Gareth

The seasonal progression is commonly held to be the concern of Namarra and Gurag-Thul

BESW

07:40

Storms = fall
tears = winter
green = spring
fire = summer
and the moon is for Things Out of Season.

That works too.

Lord_Gareth

Each of the gods claims the race from which they once lived, though worship is no longer really a competitive things. All five remember the wars from the Before Times all too well

So you'll see, say, Sonya invoked at funerals in all cultures

It's not uncommon to see an anvil consecrated to the Shaper

Etc, etc

BESW

Good, pantheons need cross-pollination.

Lord_Gareth

This is not to say there isn't some minor tension, but at that point I might be waxing too poetic and not certain you care for me to yak your ear off about it

BESW

mmm. I'd be more interested if I didn't have to leave soon and hadn't been helping Hobbs with his campaign setting so much lately.

Lord_Gareth

Well hit me up at any time if you like, I could always use another sounding board.

BESW

11:56

Begin countdown to another person not joining me in chat.

Eugene Ryabtsev

12:50

Hello there.

BESW

@EugeneRyabtsev Hey! How's it going?

Eugene Ryabtsev

The sandbox game I was referring to is planned to be something like this: arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/78/… - the players are to be given a world, but not given a victory condition. I am not on the DM side of the table, so my question rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/21968 was less of "what should I do" and more "what should be dont to me" sort of thing.

BESW

Hmm.

I've seen sandboxes be approached multiple ways. In this case, the question at stake is how much the GM feels that it's his responsibility to aid the party in being properly equipped.

I've always felt that if a party has to actually grind for wealth in order to be effective, MMO-style, there's something... lost.

So, it sounds like you're asking what attitude your GM should have re: how sandboxes impact a GM's responsibility in wealth distribution.

That is, whether it is common or acceptable for a sandbox campaign, by its nature, to allow a GM to rule that orchestrating wealth acquisition is now solely in the hands of the players.

Am I correct?

Eugene Ryabtsev

13:11

Yes. Since in this type of game the consequences of player's actions are generally blamed on them, it could be thought as a sure thing, but then if it REALLY affects party balance, this is a DM's concern too.

BESW

As a GM, I think that a sandbox campaign, if anything, places more pressure on the GM to subtly massage the situations to keep things on an even keel.

In a more plot-driven game the GM has more overt options available to him.

But I personally don't think a sandbox campaign makes the GM any less responsible for the smooth running of the background mechanics, if the game system is the kind that normally makes the GM responsible for that kind of thing.

I'm not sure you're going to get a satisfactory answer, though; 3.5 doesn't have any sandbox rules that I know of, and so it's left to personal and group choice.

You can solicit various points of view and ask for experience-based reflection on the efficacy of each attitude.

You're not going to get an answer with which to confront the GM if he "does it wrong," but you might come up with some experience-based ideas about what you could expect.

And if he's that wonderful type of GM who welcomes player input, you can provide them to him!

Eugene Ryabtsev

13:33

Maybe I'll do. But then again, maybe it won't be necessarily. Currently I am the only not-really-caster person in the group (on purpose, I tend to be active), so if I am to understand my need to pursue wealth and work it with the party, that could be fine too.

BESW

At the very least I'd say it's the GM's responsibility to ensure sufficient opportunity.

Simon Gill

15:04

Cooool - Stack Exchange powered discussion software (discourse.org). This was something I've been hoping for, and not doing anything to build, since I started using SO. And it's got our very own 100-upvote poster on the front page too ;)

wraith808

15:47

@SimonGill There's some things I like there, but some things I dislike also. It's very impressive- but it seems that the .net platform here is working, so I question the change to RoR as it's notoriously sluggish.

@BESW I think the join me in chat thing is flawed. It's a nice idea, but with the way that some (including me) use the site, I'm not likely to see it for hours. Only if people are continually on the site (pretty hard to do at work), does the "hey, let's take this offline" bit work.

Though I do think its a good idea. Things are lost in translation in an online medium, and addressing that on SE is difficult at best. It's just the implementation isn't really conducive to chatting over a problem that you have that someone might not get to see for hours.

Simon Gill

@wraith808 Not sure why they shifted to RoR, but it's not too much of a problem for most people. It's only seriously big sites that tend to suffer from RoR's sluggish behavior.

wraith808

16:07

Considering SE, I think that anything he builds will be pretty big :)

Simon Gill

Actually, thinking about it - the reason for Rails is that it's a great fit for the MVC model that works on a wider range of hosts.

wraith808

16:30

@SimonGill ASP.NET works well for MVC also. Though there is the hosts bit, as ASP.NET would be for IIS only. But MVC works well on ASP.NET

Rob

16:42

Ey up

Simon Gill

@wraith808 Kinda my point :P The majority of webhosts are linux-based because they are cheaper to provision. I love ASP.NET MVC (and it's what I'm developing in at the moment) but it is better when you have control of the hosting.

Rob

White wolfs base system: BLAH the THINGING

Simon Gill

@Rob Indeed it is. Based on, or inspiring the Magic The Gathering name, do you think?

Rob

Magic the overdraft: 1993, Wolf the Whitening: 1991; white wolf pips it by 2 years

Simon Gill

Fair enough. I wonder where they got the inspiration for the name scheme then.

Lord_Gareth

16:56

Well, keep in mind @SimonGill, and I am sad to say that I have this from the designers, that they were all deeply and completely stoned and high for oWoD

Like, out of their minds on drugs.

So when nWoD inherited the game lines, they sort of inherited the naming conventions

Simon Gill

@Lord_Gareth Well, yeah. How else does 1st ed Mage get thought up?

and who said anything about nWoD?

Lord_Gareth

No one, I was just mentioning why it stayed

Rob

@SimonGill Good question; have to ask ol' Mr. Garfield or White Wolf

Lord_Gareth

But the technique can help generate interest.

Now I must log

Rob

@Lord_Gareth adios

Simon Gill

17:01

@Rob Not that important really. Just idle curiousity.

Rob

fairy nuff :)

Hmmm, didn't know that d6 fantasy uses different stats to d6 space; pish. Well, only sensible I guess given that d6 space has tech and mechanical....

Novian

I just Found a horrid way to piss a drow family off.

Simon Gill

@Novian More than usual?

Novian

http://dndtools.eu/spells/champions-of-ruin--27/anathema--274/
and this
http://marksworld.zeemer.com/files/feats/featlibrary/generationcasting.html

Requires that there be a way to metamagic a 9th level divine spell however

yes much more.

That Casted at any drow families matron.

Simon Gill

Play pathfinder and use the metamagic reducers?

Novian

17:11

true true.

Now none of the daughters born to that particular drow family can be clerics. nor can the matron. which pretty much ensures their destruction.

and traditionally all females in a drow family are clerics.

if I remember right.

although sometimes people like to muck with it and remove the female dominated society thing, dont see why.

just because something doesnt fit your ideals doesnt mean it endangers them.

Simon Gill

@Novian No idea. Could be lots of reasons. Infatuation with Drizzt probably being one of them.

Novian

Dont see how that matters he is only the person he is today because of the enviroment he had to endure.

without it he would have been undeniably different.

not that he would have been evil but his convictions and reactions could have changed.

Simon Gill

@Novian Yeah - but how many people know that history fully? How many people just see a "Dark and brooding guy with two scimitars and an awesome panther" and fall in love with that?

Novian

Besides. even in a male dominated society no one and I repeat noone questions Briza Do Urden.

Simon Gill

@Novian Again, who knows who that is? I can only work out who she is from context.

Novian

17:17

Sigh....thats sometimes an issue. they stop at surface appearance and dont care what else is there.

I suppose I know. I could Explain. But Suffice to say She has a temper, Physical Strength, and later murderous insanity to back up anything she says.

Simon Gill

@Novian Yeah, so they want a race of Drizzt, not Drizzt as a counterpoint to the Drow race.

Novian

if all drow were noble upright citizens no one would hate them.

Simon Gill

"they" being Drizzt fangirls/boys.

Novian

Thats not saying there arent other good drow in the FR settig.

'theres a whole damn village of them.

Simon Gill

@Novian Really? When did that happen?

Novian

17:24

Eilistraee

Eilistraee, also referred to as "The Dark Maiden," is a fictional deity in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting of the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game. In the game world, she is a goddess in the drow pantheon, and her portfolios are song, swordwork, hunting, the moon and beauty. Her worshippers are good-aligned drow hoping to escape the Underdark's evil, Lolth-worshipping matriarchal society, and regain a place in the surface world. She is worshipped by song and dance, if at all possible, in the surface world under the moonlit night among the woods. She takes great pleasu...

Not exactly a when but a who. it explains a little.

Followers of this god founded a small village on the surface.

Simon Gill

"Priestesses of Eilistraee have no ceremonial garb; instead, they aim to wear as little as possible during their official ceremonies. When relaxing, they prefer silver, diaphanous gowns." -- sounds like a wish fulfillment addition to me :P

Novian

also apparently Dark and Drow elves are different.

Ive alwayes heard the term interchangably.

Simon Gill

Dark Elves are a Warhammer race, because Drow were TSR's IP.

Novian

........Followers of Eilistraee from drow to dark elves, whereafter Corellon Larethian takes this new elven subrace under his protection.

there is alot of text before that.

that explains context

there are FR Dark Elves.

as a separate subrace.

and only the followers of that god.

wraith808

@SimonGill fair point :)

Simon Gill

17:31

@Novian ah, there are now, after a recent novel.

@wraith808 Hopefully, it dethrones phpBB as the defacto forum standard.

Lord_Gareth

19:02

@Novian It should be noted that the fluff you described is as of 4e and is not accurate in any sense for earlier editions.

0

Q: Is there a way to advance both Wizard and Assassin casting?

I'm creating a character for a challenge ("How would you help this village defend against an orcish army?") and in the interests of doing something wacky I decided to try and mix Wizard and Assassin casting. However, I'm not entirely certain on how I might be able to do this in as early (read: op...

Anyone think they can offer a hand with that?

wraith808

19:18

@SimonGill It would be worth it for that alone. :)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

21:08

urrrrrrgh

Simon Gill

hmm?

coffee-zombie?

wax eagle

@BrianBallsun-Stanton good morning

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@waxeagle hungovercfofeezombie

Novian

I just realised that Awakening has numeric variables.

Simon Gill

@Novian huh?

Novian

21:12

Im tempted to maximize it.

Awakening is a 3,5e spell.

gives animals humanlike sentience.

or trees.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Awaken

I mispoke it is called Awaken.

Simon Gill

It's one way to mess with people's heads, I guess.

Novian

better yet Maximize and Generation casting it.

and youve got damn smart Kittens.

upon kittens.

upon kittns.

3rd party shenanigens i suppose are indeed the funnest

Simon Gill

One way to get Cat in D&D quickly.

Or in a system without evolution.

Novian

I Suppose its pretty feat intensive however. You do need Divine Metamagic Twice and it puts Awaken at a level 9 spell.

and only affects one additional generation.

because Generationcasting is +1 Per Generation.

Simon Gill

Level 17+ casters do probably have more interesting things to do. Miracle, for instance.

Novian

21:18

yup.

But its a funny gimmick.

I CAN MAKE GENERATIONS OF SMART CATS THAT CAN TALK!

I USED DRAGON MAG BUT IM STILL OK.

as you blast the pitiful wizard to smitherines for being useless.

was it dragon mag that had the super cheap metamagic reducers?

Simon Gill

You can also turn yourself into a god at that level. ANd then make infinite amounts of smart talking lapcats.

Novian

indeed.

Simon Gill

No idea.

Novian

like a lich getting inside a bag of holding and popping it.

and then using astral project.

Simon Gill

@Novian Or just a human person with a Bottle of Everlasting Air

Novian

21:21

being a lich gets around the bad parts of astral project.

i assume.

Simon Gill

or even bottle of Everlastng Water and a ring of Water Breathing.

Novian

oh you.

so cheesy.

hmm I have got it.

Simon Gill

What's the bad part of astral project apart from being high level?

All BESW's idea - nothing original in this conversation.

Novian

Cut the Cord you die.

nope no original thoughts here.

cord gets cut you die.

lich: Oh really?

If I remember correct a lich cannot die until its phylactery is smashed. at least in 3,5 I think thats true.

then the lich goes on to create an army of wizard cats to take over the world.

we dabbled in allowing Awakened cats as playable characters. we learned one thing. Despite its LA and HD a Half Dragon cat is neither explainable nor non-threatening.

BESW

@Novian D&D dragons are like Zeus; they screw just about everything they don't kill, and have the shapeshifting powers to make it work.

Simon Gill

21:28

Psion with Astral Seed and Astral Caravan are a non-Lich way to achieve the same goal.

Novian

But. this was a Half Dragon Awakened Cat it has none of the sorcerous nor shapeshifting abilities.

Simon Gill

@Novian LA and HD would have nothing to do with explainability, and housecats are still only a threat to level 1 wizards.

BESW

@Novian I'm addressing "explainable;" obviously to get a half-dragon cat, a dragon screwed a cat.

Novian

..... add in the stat boosts and its ability to class.

@BESW I misunderstood.

BESW

@Novian So, I expect, did the cat.

Novian

21:31

ha ha!

Simon Gill

@BESW I'd star that... but it has no context :P

Novian

I would too.

BESW

@SimonGill This statement deliberately left contextless.

Novian

I nearly fell out of my chair.

BESW

[bow and a flourish]

Simon Gill

21:32

@BESW Probably wise.

Novian

well I award you with +3 Internets. because that is all I can do.

a useless currency that no one keeps track of.

BESW

Thank you. I will keep them next to the couch, so I can pick the People Who Are Wrong off them while I watch TV.

Novian

Copying the entire conversation. at least from the comment about dragons being zeus downward.

saving it to a document for later laughter.

BESW

...

Novian

I have simple humor.

and I forget things.

BESW

21:36

I will never understand what people find side-splittingly hilarious.

Novian

Neither will most people.

or collin mockery.

Simon Gill

Humour is incredibly individualistic.

Which is good - it'd be boring if we all had the same laugh reaction.

BESW

True.

I crack up at the Fourth Doctor's "Oh, look! Rocks!" every single time.

Simon Gill

That's a meta joke, if ever there was one.

BESW

I suppose I do generally like my one-liners with a side of meta.

[is reviewing his quote pull]

Simon Gill

21:50

The best jokes pull in lots more than just the words.

BESW

One of the reasons I like the original Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle run, and have a lot from it in my quote pull, is how very genre-aware it is.

Simon Gill

mmmm, Deadpool being up there for genre-aware characters too.

BESW

@SimonGill Yeah, but Deadpool is a different flavor; he's Alice-level mad in an unaware world.

Simon Gill

@BESW Very true.

BESW

Which is fine, and I like him, but it doesn't hit me squarely on the happy.

Put it this way: Jaime plays GTA: Gotham.

Simon Gill

21:55

@BESW haha, that is pretty cool

BESW

I'm pretty sure I know what its tagline is.

Simon Gill

na-na-na-na-Batman?

BESW

That'd be the theme music.

Simon Gill

So what's the tagline?

BESW

And now that I think of it, it probably cuts in on the radio in your stolen vehicle when you hit the second-highest threat level.

@SimonGill "Criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot."

Simon Gill

21:58

@BESW Somebody should do this.

BESW

At the highest threat level, you have 12 seconds to get being lead shielding before Superman's laser vision cuts your belt and makes you trip over your pants so Batman can catch you.

Simon Gill

Haha. Somebody really should do this.

There should be options to build your own Z-List supervillain kit too.

BESW

Definitely.

The story has you choose which A-lister you ally yourself with.

Hint: not the Joker.

Simon Gill

Definitely. There's got to be many more interesting A-Listers to run missions for.

BESW

You could be the Riddler's riddle-leaver.

Are you now thinking how to do this in FATE?

Anyway, must dash. back in a hour.

Simon Gill

22:10

Not especially :P But it could be a cool thing to do for the PBC game when it's ready.

Have fun :)

BESW

23:29

Sigh. That sandbox question is getting a lot of answers that totally ignore the fact it's the GM who is in charge of the options available to the players.

Simon Gill

Especially when it's a player trying to prove to his GM that the GM is doing something wrong.

BESW

He's not even doing that.

He's trying to anticipate his GM's actions.

Simon Gill

hmmmm, I didn't read that into it.

BESW

23:51

11 hours ago, by Eugene Ryabtsev

The sandbox game I was referring to is planned to be something like this: http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/78/grand-experiments-west-marches/ - the players are to be given a world, but not given a victory condition. I am not on the DM side of the table, so my question http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/21968 was less of "what should I do" and more "what should be dont to me" sort of thing.

Future tense "is planned to be."

Simon Gill

ahhh, missed that.

All I remembered was after the first link.

BESW

Yeah. He was either trying to figure out what to expect, or anticipating problems and gathering ammunition.

Summoning circles: zero-mostel.deviantart.com/gallery

Largely Lovecraftian.

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