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1:53 AM
Infinite Family stats, semifinal draft: docs.google.com/file/d/0BymQQv9ecodqMldrX0NMVjV3b0k/edit
 
2:11 AM
@BESW Does Captured Image do damage if you have no Stain before the damage is dealt?
 
@SimonGill Yes, it just replaces the "lose 1 Stain" with "end effect."
Updated for the right level, otherwise unchanged: docs.google.com/file/d/0BymQQv9ecodqMHFjQjhSaFUyWTA/edit
 
Cool. I think that was the only thing that was unclear.
Can't say much about the stats though.
 
Eh, they're totally standard average for the level.
 
But they do look fun :)
 
Night all
 
2:13 AM
I'm afraid I may be really pissing off the monk, but I'm looking forward to it.
@C.Ross ttfn
 
(I've not done a great deal at Epic, maybe a few sessions).
 
(He's got an ability that lets his flurry deal radiant damage, so the first round of combat is going to huuurt.)
 
@BESW Yep. That is going to be zappy.... wait. Does the coruscation affect the other nerra too?
 
But he can turn that off--it's the "bonus radiant damage for a whole round after you use an action point" bit that's gonna be annoying.
No, it targets enemies.
 
@BESW That's probably good.... having a huge blanket of radiant damage might be bad.
 
2:15 AM
yeah, I wouldn't totally nerf his only real AoE damage ability.
Just... make him deal nearly everyone in the party a ton of damage the first round.
Epic flurry targets all enemies adjacent to him, and he gets to add one target within 5 squares.
 
@BESW It's only 15 though, right?
 
Up to 15, yes.
However much radiant damage is resisted, up to 15. I think his flurry is 9.
 
That's not too bad. Annoying, but not terrible.
 
Yes, but he can set himself up to hit up to 10 targets in a single round with flurry.
All at once.
No, up to nine. Sorry.
 
Ah, ok, that could hurt.
 
2:18 AM
...wait. Math! [stops, thinks] Yes, nine.
If he's totally surrounded and there's one other guy within 1 squares, that's 9 flurry targets.
 
Stop! Math time!
 
4e flurry is a no-action non-attack that deals a small amount of automatic damage and gives a small secondary effect (for him, slide target 1 square). It triggers 1/round on a successful melee attack.
 
2:31 AM
I'm experimenting with the Miss: shift 6 squares thing. It's a way to consolidate power and utility without giving me more choices or things to keep track of. And it makes misses interesting while still making the players feel like their defenses are useful.
 
@BESW Is that a Miss effect on the nerra? Or is this a PC power that adds the effect to powers targeting them?
 
When the nerra misses with an attack it makes, it gets to shift 6 squares instead of doing the damage it would on a hit.
 
That's quite cool.
 
 
4 hours later…
6:19 AM
Evening everyone
 
 
3 hours later…
8:59 AM
@MissZ, @William'MindWorX'Mariager Hello!
 
Unfortunately @MissZ doesn't have the 20 rep needed to talk here just yet, but she's a most welcome observer.
(I think. I can never quite tell if I'm looking at exactly the right rep on some of these user cards.)
 
This place is dangerous. I get hooked looking at all the questions.
 
Yes, indeed.
 
I like it though. Lots of great inspiration.
 
9:04 AM
Yup! A lot of good reference and source stuff, some really great basic questions elaborating on common confusing ground...
It's helping me get a sense of FATE before I have a chance to play it (I'm just itching to, but it really depends on when which members of my group leave island).
 
 
2 hours later…
11:08 AM
@besw you're doomed to play FATE. Or you're fated to play DOOM. You choose.
 
@Zachiel I certainly hope it's the former.
I'm pretty pants at FPS.
 
And the DOOM RPG is pretty poor by all accounts. Although the board game was quite fun.
 
just use the cheats
my PC kept crashing at the final stage of doom 2
 
11:57 AM
So, I'm thinking about trying a really simple Aspect-based experiment for making some NPCs the party's gonna be having an intense negotiation with.
 
Building up the social conflict is a good place to use it.
 
@SimonGill Maybe you could give me an assist?
 
@BESW Sure :)
 
Okay, context: the party has been sent into the enemy capital, to negotiate with the city's three leaders. The party knows that a terrible Lovecraftian horror is going to pop into the world in or near the city very soon. The city will become the beachhead for an invasion of the star-gods, which is bad for EVERYONE, and thus desperate times might make for strange bedfellows.
The party wants, at the very least, to convince the leaders of the threat.
 
Are you giving the party any aspects?
 
12:02 PM
I'm not going to try to use FATE mechanics for the negotiation; it's mostly going to be pure RP.
But I want to use aspects to create the NPCs, so I can have a more RP-based handle on them.
Basically I want to use aspects instead of building them mechanically or just writing down a bunch of sentences about 'em.
 
okie dokie. So Core says there should be 5 aspects, a High Concept, a Trouble and 3 Event-based.
 
The head of the first House is actually a duo: brother and sister. Krumos and Kaieta Zolfura are very probably incestuously involved with each other. They've both taken on elemental traits: he's fire and she's ice, visibly so. They're always together, often hanging on each other. It's said that if they get too far apart they might both blow up and take out the whole city.
 
@SimonGill I'm not familiar with fate, is it 5 aspects plus all the rest or 5 aspects divided that way?
 
@Zachiel 5 Aspects divied that way.
 
Back in my corner and watching
 
12:07 PM
House Zolfura is elementally inclined, binding the raw building blocks to the world to its will. They call down rains of acid and fiery hail in combat.
The second House is run by Baron Barathas Kahlir. He's... think if the Baron Harkkonnen (from Dune) had been a vampire.
He's a grotesquely corpulent vampire who has learned to drain a man of blood with a hungry look at fifty paces.
His House specializes in fleshcraft and charm magic, creating supersoldiers and subtly manipulating their enemies' minds.
The third House's leader is Matron Jorhara Barikdral, or at least that's probably true. It's a necromancy House, and nobody's actually seen her for decades; she speaks through undead mouthpieces because her very voice can kill a man and reanimate him as a slavish zombie.
And that's basically all that I have from canon. Everything else is up to me and I haven't done much with them.
 
Oh, and they're all tieflings who rule the most powerful city in a tiefling-run 'human' empire that spans half the world. All non-humans and non-tieflings in the empire are slaves.
 
OK. Let's see, you've got the high concepts of each in those paragraphs. They just need shortening up and pithying.
 
Oh, the city has two Themes and a Threat: Heart of the War Machine, Great and Bountiful Inhuman Empire, The Stars Are Watching.
 
@BESW <Snaps his fingers in a semicircular motion, with a disappointed face>
 
12:21 PM
@Zachiel ?
 
I'm not this able to convey it in english. I'm gonna look for the right idiom to express that, brb
<Zachiel looks at the vampire @besw posted, snaps his fingers and whips his lips> "Ahh, what a pity!" <clearly favoring his version of it> XD
 
Ahah.
 
how would you say that?
 
Yeah, definitely going for a Baron Harkonnen feel on this guy.
Not coming up with an idiom or expression for that off the top of my head.
"I liked mine better"?
 
I should ask carolina
 
12:27 PM
Okay, so since we've got his picture up let's start with the Baron Kahlir.
 
@BESW Two ways to go about it, a High Concept of "Will drain you dry of blood as soon as look at you."
 
He's a corpulent greedy man who obsesses with control: fleshcraft, charm magic, leadership of his House, even his greed is about owning things.
 
@CarolinaLoza how would you say, in English, "Ah, peccato!"? As when you want to convey the impression that you had some silly idea, they show you what it really was intended to be and you want to be ironic by telling them you still favor yours?
 
Everything he sees, he must own or control or influence.
 
@BESW A Trouble of "Grasping hands and greedy eyes"?
@BESW Maybe a High Concept of "Your flesh and will are mine to mold."
 
12:31 PM
Nice.
I assume we should probably go around and get High Concepts and Troubles for each before putting in events?
 
Probably a good idea - since we can look at the Events as the relationship/history between each pair.
 
Yeah.
 
Matron Barikdral then.
 
We don't know much about her. She used to fly around on a chariot made from a giant's skull.
 
Is it possible that the Matron is now more of an identity?
 
12:34 PM
Last time anyone saw her, she was looking more and more like one of her own undead creations, but she was still a terribly vibrant personality.
 
Like Bond - the identity carries on, even if the agent who is given that identity changes.
@BESW Never mind, that won't quite work then.
 
Hobbs has suggested that she and her entire House accidentally turned themselves into undead, and they're hiding until they can fix it.
 
@BESW Hehe, whoops.
How about "Brain in a Soul Jar" for her concept?
 
That doesn't say much about WHO she is, does it?
 
But it does say what she is, and give some idea of her strengths and limitations. Possibly Mind in a Soul Jar would have been a better ohrasing.
 
12:37 PM
Sadly I don't have much to work with or any ideas. She... had a voice that could kill people, and used to fly around to impress people and remind them how powerful she was, but now she doesn't.
 
Combine it with a trouble of "A mind torn from a body rotting beneath it." and that says a little more.
Although it is possibly a repetition.
 
She has a voice that kills people, even if she doesn't want to, or she wouldn't be speaking trough magic
 
I just don't think I can give her much dignity as a brain in a can.
 
does she regret that? Wouldn't she be fine with just going out and killing everybody else in the city becoming the leader? Is she afraid of the vampire guild leader for he would be immune and stronger?
 
@Zachiel Mindless hordes do not good citizens make.
 
12:40 PM
she is living as a prisoner
so she cares about having citizens
 
@BESW That's the point though, it's a big secret that forces her to ride her undead minions instead of showing off her true glory.
 
@SimonGill I think I can do that by having her be a rotting half-skeletal corpse, and not have the players laugh at her.
But maybe... Hm.
 
a banshee lich
 
Okay, might as well. Let's roll with it.
We've got a guy with too much flesh, let's have a girl without any.
 
@BESW Soul Jars come in many types and shapes. It doesn't have to be an actual brain in a vat of fluid.
 
12:42 PM
or you could focus on the whole "you're never gonna see her" thing
 
@Zachiel One of the possible results of this negotiation is that the House leaders are able to join the party in fighting the Opener of the Way.
 
maybe she can send an avatar
and the other leaders are gonna shake their heads
 
High Concept: Undeath Unbecomes Her.
 
@Zachiel that was what I was going for - but if they ever do see her then that sudden stripping away of her power and dignity is going to be a big dramatic reveal.
 
No, that should be her trouble.
 
12:44 PM
@Zachiel I did assume she'd be able to possess one of her servants to move around, but she can't access her full power.
@BESW Either way, it's a good one.
 
I'd rather let her some flesh. She has a voice. I like the idea of the deadly voice being something physical, not even magic
 
@SimonGill yeah, in the negotiation she'll be speaking through a zombie slave mouthpiece.
 
but maybe she's a rotted corpse that can't even move from its chair
 
@Zachiel I like this.
Carried into battle on a litter, barely able to raise her voice... but striking men down with it nonetheless.
 
@BESW She doesn't even have to bring personal power to the last fight. With a horde of zombie minions, she can easily bolster the slave armies.
@BESW Or this. This is also cool. Creepy but cool.
 
12:47 PM
So, her high concept...
She's got the Killing Voice. She's obviously proud.
Very strong personality, but very detached from the world: she's not only undead, she's also a recluse.
 
"There Is No One Worthy To Hear My Voice"?
 
oooh.
Loverly. Check.
I'm thinking the twins should get aspects as a single person.
 
Is this a one soul, two bodies type of deal?
 
I don't think so. It's a creepy twincest thing.
And they're literally unable to move far from each other, ever.
 
I like the idea of turning the slaves into undead as they die
 
12:53 PM
@BESW Hmmm...... not sure about that.
 
Okay, let's see what we can do separately then.
 
If they are never apart, then they'd go through all the same events together, but they'd have different opinions about it.
 
Actually I got them backwards: the man is ice, the woman is fire.
 
You might be right, one set of aspects for the pair is probably enough.
 
Silly picture, but official. This is why I usually delve Deviantart instead.
Well, I like the idea of them having different ideas.
But I also would really like to RP them finishing each others' sentences and things.
 
12:59 PM
Clearly the trouble is "A love so forbidden, punished to be side-by-side forever."
 
The Fairy Nuff looks queasy.
Personality wise there's not much to work from.
I'm inclined to look at the other two leaders and think about what balances or imbalances them.
We've got someone who wants to control everything and everyone, and someone who could control everyone but is too proud to show herself in her condition.
Now we've got a pair who are the living embodiment of balanced extremes.
 
So, these two are what is stopping the vampire from taking over the city since the Matron went into seclusion.
 
Must be.
 
Those balancing aspects can go into the Events aspects though. The High Concept and the Trouble are about the core of the character rather than the world around them.
 
Yeah.
 
1:07 PM
A concept of "Opposites attract. Pity anyone caught in the middle."?
 
docs.google.com/document/d/… is where I'm writing this down as I finalize it in my head.
I like that!
Zolfura Twins
High Concept: Opposites Attract; Pity Anyone Caught Between Them
Trouble: A Love So Forbidden, Punished to Be Side-by-Side Forever
Okay, so I've got one event already.
The Baron had a lovely dryad cleric he was using to keep his subjects alive during nasty supersoldier experiments, and after she escaped he nearly retrieved her... but the Matron interfered on basic principle.
He was using blood magic to teleport the dryad back, and the Matron basically hijacked the leyline he was reeling her in on, grabbed the dryad, found her terribly boring, and sent her back into the wild just to tick him off.
 
@BESW Which basic principle was that?
 
@SimonGill "If the Baron wants it, it'll piss him off if he can't have it."
She probably regularly blocks his acquisitions, whenever it's a minimal risk or loss for her, just to keep him angry, off-balance, and malcontent.
(He probably does much better work for the war in that kind of mood.)
So the Baron probably as an aspect like "The Matron never works in my interest," or "Old grudges never die."
 
@BESW So the baron gets "Doubles down after a setback" with better phrasing.
 
Ahah.
Always Get Back Up On a Bigger Horse?
[is silly]
 
1:17 PM
Or "I'll never be stopped, even by the voice of death."?
@BESW Maybe a little silly :P
 
That has some nice double meanings for a vampire. I likey.
And the Matron should have something like "If it costs me nothing, why not cost others something?" But better.
 
@BESW "Anybody who has it easy cannot be strong."?
 
"Wanting is Weakness"?
 
"Wanting is Weakness. Having is Strength"?
 
@SimonGill Nice.
I was about to suggest something like "Cannot Say No To A Back Asking for Stabbing."
 
1:22 PM
@BESW "If my dagger can find your back, our enemy's can too."
 
I like the "wanting/having" one for now.
Making a note of that though.
 
@BESW The backstabbing one could work with the twins
 
Oooh.
Okay, so the Twins have a connection to one of the PCs.
The only PC who has been through all the campaign (118 years of war, due to time travel funkiness) was a minor member of their House.
 
Well, by combining the twins, there's a free aspect that should probably be used to cover the relationship with the PCs.
 
He was a desk jockey in the tiefling CIA, and turned traitor just before the war: ran off with their invasion plans, which he'd helped write.
He's been a regular annoyance to everyone on that side ever since.
They probably get a lot of flak for that.
 
1:27 PM
"Our shame is dulling the blade of Vor Kragal"?
 
Check!
 
Although... would that be invokable for benefits?
 
Driven to greater effort to overcome the shame?
 
@BESW Yeah, that works well enough.
 
Okay, so without going into details I think I can give the Matron that backstabbing aspect re: the Twins and give the Twins an aspect about only being able to trust each other.
"Trust Each Other and No Other"?
Which leaves the Baron and the Twins.
 
1:34 PM
As I see it then, balance is maintained by the baron and the twins pushing for power, with the Matron holding on to hers strongly and striking at anyone who shows weakness like a violent teacher.
 
So we need the Twins' last aspect to be about their drive for power.
Maybe something in which they got the upper hand over the Baron?
 
Is there something that is fought over again and again and keeps trading hands between the two?
 
Ummm. Sure.... the Ninth Ministry.
The city's secret police/CIA.
They can be vying for controlling interest in it.
 
Maybe lost to the Baron after the PCs defection?
 
That makes sense.
Heheh.
"I'll Rip the Secrets From Your Flesh" could be good for the Baron.
 
1:40 PM
"I must have the secret. I'll rip them from your flesh." <- adds some compelability.
 
How about just "I Must Have Your Secrets"?
 
Ummmm.... perhaps. I think that goes away from what was going on though.
The Baron taking and losing the Ninth Ministry in a power play.
 
True.
Secrets are Power...
 
"Secrets are Power and Power is Fleeting"?
 
Fair enough.
 
1:47 PM
What about "Ice resists, Fire flows." to describe their methods for dealing with the Baron?
 
Ooh, good.
Given that two of the PCs were instrumental in dismantling one of the Baron's supersoldier programs 118 years ago, "I Never Forget or Forgive" might be good for his PC-related aspect.
 
Definitely.
As for the Matron - how about "No Outsider Shall Know My Shame"?
 
Hrm. She doesn't want any insider to know her shame either.
 
Fair enough.
Has she had any direct interactions with the PCs or the war?
 
The very first mission the PCs were ever on was to defeat one of her minor relatives' attempt to summon demons as shock troops in an invasion.
And the dryad she took from the Baron and then set loose was a PC.
The dryad's long dead now, and only one of the original PCs is still around--the Zolfura one.
These days she marches on the battlefield through proxies, raising the corpses of the slave armies to attack their enemies from the rear.
The party's heard of this but the campaign's running too fast to have seen it.
Actually!
The very last mission the PCs were on, she provided such a massive necromantic threat in a far-off battle that the dragonpope had to leave his city, which meant only the PCs were there to stop a coordinated attempt to raise the ghosts of evil dragons beneath the city.
She was definitely behind those.
 
1:56 PM
How does she feel about their handling of her ghost dragons?
 
Well, destroying the dragonpope's city would effectively remove him from the war, which would mean that her necromancy has little to stop it.
So... pretty darn upset. It was a brilliant plan that actually worked, except the dragonpope used time travel to force the PCs into a grandfather paradox that stopped it before it happened.
 
@BESW Does she fear them at all?
 
@SimonGill Quite probably. Two of them are time-travelers, one's slain a demi-god and returned from the dead 80 years later, one's a personal student of the dragonpope...
They've been in the Right Place at the Right Time for 118 years of war, and from the very beginning prevented her sneakiest plans from undermining the enemy before it knew what hit them.
 
She's a survivor, right? How would she handle the arrival of something she thinks can defeat her if she stands alone? Especially given her needling of the other houses of Vor Kragal.
 
She probably wants to throw the other Houses in the PCs' way first.
Distract, deflect, weaken if not destroy before they turn their attention to her.
(She can't circle the wagons, even if she'd want to. The Houses would never trust her enough to do that.)
@Snesticle Hello!
 
2:03 PM
Howdy
 
@BESW "If you've found me, I've already lost."?
 
That works.
Sweet
 
All done, and it's only midnight :)
 
These are absolutely brilliant, and really help me get these guys together in my head.
Now I just need to figure out voices...
 
@BESW I don't envy you that task...
 
2:06 PM
As a general rule if I can find a TV/film character that in some way mirrors the NPC's personality I'll use that voice.
I'm a bad enough mimic that nobody ever notices what I'm cribbing from, but it helps keep the character and voice consistent in my mind.
I'm thinking flappy-jowled werewolf Futurama Head of Nixon for the Baron.
 
@BESW Workable.
 
It's more for something in my head to keep it consistent; there's no way I'll actually get that sound.
 
There's a creepy twincest pair of gardener demon in Shakugan no Shana that might work for the twins - a passive male and an aggressive female.
 
@SimonGill Got a YT example or something?
 
Yep, was just digging it up
 
2:19 PM
Hmm.
 
The original is better acted. This dub is awful.
 
While I'm loading that, alternate concept: one of them is the only one who speaks. The other doesn't make any signals or sounds, but the speaking one frequently seems to be communicating with them anyway.
 
But it does provide a starting point.
 
"As my sister has just pointed out..."
 
@BESW That works, so long as the sister is still expressive, even if she's not saying anything.
Might be better the other way round, letting the sister speak. Then the Iceman can loom passively in the background.
 
2:24 PM
@BESW @SimonGill What are you working on?
 
@C.Ross I'm using the FATE concept of aspects to flesh out the character and backgrounds of the leaders of three very hostile noble houses my party's going to be negotiating with in an intense RP session.
We're pretty much done with that part: docs.google.com/document/d/… and now I'm speculating about voice and mannerism inspirations.
 
@BESW yeah, FATE is built to encourage good RP techniques
 
(I won't be using FATE mechanics in the actual session, just thought --rightfully so-- that it'd help me get into their narrative headspace.)
 
Yeah, we were using the aspect skeleton to practice developing interesting NPCs in FATE style.
 
cool
I'm tempted to try to switch my PF game to FATE Core, but my players aren't convinced
on the other hand they're about to get themselves killed
 
2:31 PM
I'm not sure if I can talk one of my players into switching from 4e to FATE for our next campaign.
It may not be crunchy enough for him.
 
@BESW You don't have to talk him into a full campaign off the bat, just into a 1-4 session short game to try it out.
 
Yar.
 
@BESW yeah, and I have one player who is still learning PF, she's reluctant to pick up another game, despite the fact the mechanics are dead simple
 
@C.Ross Aye, we only just switched to 4e a year and a half ago.
There's some sunk costs in learning the new system.
 
@BESW But there's lots of benefits to learning many games as well as costs.
 
2:38 PM
@BESW definitely, but that's life
 
@SimonGill My group tends to be the kind of player who prefers to sink himself as deep as he can go into a system, wallowing in it until we're absolutely sick and tired of it.
 
personally, I like learning new systems, but I realize that's not the case for everyone
 
@C.Ross We're also a very very small group; 3.5 of us at the moment.
 
@BESW I have 4.5 players in PF and 5.5 in Diaspora (rotate weekly)
 
One of us is expecting to leave in a couple months --the one I'm not sure if he'll like FATE-- so yeah.
The other remaining regular is looking forward to FATE, and it looks like a system that can handle single-player games pretty well.
 
2:48 PM
@BESW yeah, though I think two players would be better
do you play at the FLGS or somewhere else
 
No, we're pretty much on our own.
 
It's got a few downsides, but finding players is definitely a benefit of the FLGS game
 
 
3 hours later…
5:30 PM
Random FLGS players is always a mixed bag. Sometimes you will get awesome players. Sometimes you get 'that guy'.
3
 
5:57 PM
@MadMAxJr And if you're really unlucky, 'That Guy'.
 
Or the 'Fun Vampire'. Who sucks the fun out of your game.
 
@MadMAxJr Or, you get a Supporter who takes the time and makes the effort to make sure everyone around the table is having fun.
 
Rare, but not unheard of.
 
@MadMAxJr There are a few around. They are worth treasuring.
 
6:13 PM
@MadMAxJr There is no better practice for your table management skills
 
I hosted public games when I was working for a shop. I am all too familiar with it.
 
 
4 hours later…
10:19 PM
Oh, boy! A 4e social engineering question!
I'm on that like white on rice.
I've never really paid much attention to our FLGS(s?). I started playing in college, and when I got back home the friends I played with included at least one guy who would've bailed if it hadn't been a very close-knit and predictable group.
 
10:57 PM
so.. what is FLGS?
 
Friendly Local Gaming Store.
 
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
hahahahahaha
 
Fun Loving Game Sharks
 
..? no idea wha that means?
 
Fancy Loup-Garou Suit?
 
11:00 PM
Fantastic Leaping Game Show
 
xD thay sounds bard-biased
 
But no, the first one is correct. Friendly Local Game Store.
 
hehehehehe
 
I haven't actually set foot in any of mine; they look like they're most TCG havens.
 
i did while l5r hunting... it was a very sad little place.. literally a guy's mom's garaged turned store
she was 80 poor thing, he knew everything and belittled me for researching such an unusual game and for not knowing all the games he wanted to sell me
<,<'
 
11:10 PM
The local place here is a M:TG and Warmachine place. Neither game I'm interested in getting back into sadly.
Not much selection for RPG books either, D&D 4E and a handful of used 3.5
 
@CarolinaLoza This is why he was in his mother's garage ...
@MadMAxJr My local place has plenty of M:TG and Warhammer (mainly 40k, but some fantasy), but they also have a good RPG selection and comics and general board games
</shameless-plug>
 
11:26 PM
My old shop has a great selection of new and out of print games. gameheadquarters.com
</also-shameless-plug>
 

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