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3:04 PM
Welp after exaustive searching I found the answer to one of my questions.
Posted the answer up there for future askers of the same quesion.
GOOOOOD MOOOORNING STAAACKEXCHAAANGE!
doesnt work as well with Stack Exchange.
3D8
 
Super Dumb Questions.
1.) What modifiers add to touch AC
2.) What goes to Flat Footed.
Ive seemed to have forgotten'
 
3:26 PM
which game?
 
D&D 3.5
 
to touch: dodge, deviation, not sure about sacred/profane but basically anything that's not armor, shield and natural
to flat footed: anything but dexterity and dodge
I'm going by memory someone can confirm?
can someone*
 
ill see if i can confirm it.
Heh I did find feats that allow sheild and armor bonuses to touch ac
I knew I kept that book around for something.
 
which book are they in?
 
LoM
 
3:31 PM
dang
the same with darkstalker
the same we don't use in my game
are you good at building characters?
 
Parrying Shield
Prereq: Shield Proficiency
Add Sheild(and its enhancement bonus) to touch AC
I cant find the one for armor.
@Zachiel Depends on who you want to piss of and get murdered by.
 
for armor there's the exotic armor
@Novian huh?
 
weak armor
@Zachiel I.E. Yes I am good,
 
I know, that's why I use superior magic armor on top of it
but at least the bonuses from magic vest add to my touch AC
 
ah the feat for armor is in a different book.
a book I just so happen to be able to access
 
3:36 PM
I also asker KRyan but he just said "can't help you, your game sucks they banned too much things"
 
Why did they ban?
 
the fact is the didn't ban things. They never added them
 
we allow most all the book. Exept ones we dont have access to and the BoEf
 
we started playing with core, FR and the 4 completes with base classes in
 
Books*
 
3:37 PM
and no 3.0 things unless they've been upgraded
 
@Zachiel Seems like a good start.
3.0 things have hardly changed.
 
yeah but no darkstalker means hide in plain sight is useless
no boed
 
NO BOED!
 
no ToB
no Savage Species
 
Could care less about ToB but no Savage?
its the most usefull book.
 
3:38 PM
MIC and SpC only as errata
 
....Im sorry. thats just....odd.
too many restrictions
but Even with the ones youve got you can make a usefull character.
 
too many things they never wanted to add to the game because they changed the balance of the game we were playing
I have a rogue 5 chameleon 6
 
Dont add ToB if you want to keep balance.
 
and I'm going for chamemelon 10
 
ah good ole chameleon
Expanded Psionics is what I use now.
 
3:40 PM
i've seen another player do good things with it
 
I like the flexibility of Psionics.
 
mostly for fun build, charisma based
no psionics
 
it has its limits but its more freeing than sorcerer or wizard albeit less powerfull.
 
I guess they scorched themselves with the 3.0 psions
and never ever want to hear about psionisc going nova again
however
 
Eh the class I use is horrid at nova ing
good at regular blasting.
and other roles.
 
3:42 PM
I wanted to take rogue 10, crippling strike, a bow that drains str and debuff things from hiding
turns out hiding is not that easy
and finding someone not immune to ability damage is too, at level 22
I have high dex
 
heh I have a non rogue with a max Hide of 55 if I roll a 20. at level 9 with hide as a class skill.
 
but without A&EG this deals no damage since I'm human and can't becaome a CoC
easy
 
yeah I see why KRyan has his opinion.
 
pifwafi of valas hune
+15 armor
 
meh Im not using but one item costing 750gp to acheive that hide
 
3:44 PM
hiding is so easy I don't have ranks in perception skills
which one?
 
its a Psionic item.
 
not accessible to me
no personalized items except for weapons/armor
to avoid persistente stone (no slot) of wraithstrike
and similar things
 
called Dorje of Chamelion its a Psionic wand Basically. casts the Power Chameleon.
...Your DM is doing it wrong.
 
it's not a DM
 
instead of limiting things just ask to see character sheets and say no to ridiculous things.
 
3:46 PM
it's a whole staff of DMs in a mmorpg play by chat
 
....that is weird.
 
they can't say no on a personal basis
 
no wonder you have too many rules.
 
that would be too much work and too much open to preferencialisms
or whatever their name in English is
 
.....I never have to worry about preferencial treatment.
 
3:48 PM
here if one has too much missions in a month any other could scream at preferencialism
most of the game is almost free diceless rpg with other PCs
 
My Dm's(We rotate sometimes.) Know to watch me carefully lest I pull another dragon killing pixie.
 
of really different levels (1 to 25 now)
 
we play around a table in a basement.
 
so quests need to be built for a wide range of levels in the same mission
I do that too and I'm the DM
3.0, only core and FRCS
for I'm playing CotSQ
 
When Im the Dm one must be watchful of the townsfolk.
 
3:49 PM
and I didn't want to convert it to 3.5
 
3.5 fixes some problems creates others.
 
how? my 6th level drow guards can hit them on a 20 and die on 1 hit
pretty frustrating
 
they might not be what they seem.
 
oooh ok
no, I'm playing by the book
 
its by the book completely
 
3:51 PM
their next encounter is against a white dragon dracolich.
 
polymorph a balor into a little girl.
 
in a closed room with a ring of blades right in the middle ç.ç
 
@Zachiel pffft.
I could circumvent that encounter with my dice behind my back.
 
there were this 2 dragons. One was a zombie and attacked on signt
sight
the dracolich was supposed to see what the players did
they cast ring of blades on both dragons, killed the zombie one
now the dracolick is likely to ask for a parley
 
hmm. I think I know that spell.
 
3:53 PM
he can only crouch to the ground and cast spells
I think he's gonna open with terryfing presence, paralisis gaze and then a freezing fog
but I think he's gonna be dead in less than 1 round
luckily shivering touch is not an option
 
oh I banned that shit from my games.
 
in a game I play it got a saving throw
 
that is a bad spell/
 
however
I have this chameleon that's not gonna be a stealthy archer anymore
I want to turn it into a gish
small problem with that
8 20 8!!! 18 10 16
a recyprocal gyre almost killed me last fight
the previous one, I wasn't able to hit an elder air elemental
and I had to TP away from my XP
I was wondering if an ability reset is necessary
but I don't know how to build the rest of that character
@Novian any hints? I'm leveling up to 12 and need to know where to spend my ability point
 
 
2 hours later…
6:18 PM
Any odd numbers?
What are you What edition and What is your purpose.
 
odd numbers?
I'm rogue 5 chameleon 6 3.5ed I want to be able to survive and win fights, be it fightig side to side with lower levels be it doing support for epics
 
Odd number Ability Scores
 
our point buy is 1 on 1
so a 18 costs only 1 more than a 17
 
So you want to be the parties Supporting Scout?
 
starting with several 18 is possible
there might be no party at all
I want to be effective in combat and hard to kill
while not scarificing my social skills
I wanted to be able to impersonate different people
each one with his fighting style
 
6:24 PM
Sounds like a different point buy system than the official one but hey whatever.

hmm. Rogues are more the stealth type with social capabilities and large ammounts of skills so No problem there.
 
you know, it's hard to let you pass for a bard who rolls perform checks in the 120s
 
how?
120 is like level 40-50 skill rolls.
if not higher level epics.
lemme look up chameleon to get a feel for it.
its been a while since I looked at it,
 
 
2 hours later…
8:13 PM
@Novian: regarding Anarchic Initiate, if you want to enter it and your DM is being obnoxious about the prereqs, just be a Psion with Overchannel. Psions are better than Wilders and Overchannel is better than Wild Surge. I recommend against Anarchic Initiate because it is awfully designed, but it is awfully designed because it is a PrC that seems designed for Wilders that is much, much better for Psions, and because it breaks major tenets of Psionic design by being full-manifesting; i.e. too good
@BrianBallsun-Stanton: so, for your game, I just read this question/answer and I'd be interested in doing something along these lines:
9
Q: What class/builds can be used to fulfill both striker and controller roles?

GWLlosaMany classes/ builds allow one to fulfill multiple party roles. For example, a Paladin is a hybrid leader/defender. What classes/builds are a good way to handle striker/controller? I'm looking for a class/build that will allow a character to attack enemies, dealing damage, and applying debuff/...

Would you be willing to help a newbie out with this stuff? I followed most of it but I'm not familiar with the options you're throwing out by name, and there are some abbreviations I'm unfamiliar with
also, oh man, d7 and I are of one mind for once
 
8:34 PM
@Novian: Also, updated my answer to suggest an Apprentice (Manifester) feat -- just like Apprentice (Spellcaster) but for Psionics. If your DM balks at that, you need a new DM.
(well, assuming he would have allowed any other Apprentice feat, anyway)
 
8:45 PM
@novian
Ok I was a little bit wrong.
130 was because I had a 123 in my mind and I was tricked into thinking it was the modifier, and I assumed a medium roll of 10
123 was a result that was rolled with a good dice.
However:

Human, starting charisma 18 + 5 from levels +5 from tome + 4 from scepter of wonders/marvel/whatever it's called +6 from ability boost. Total 38. +14.
24 ranks at level 21 (totals +38)
+2 from versatile performer (+40)
+15 from divine intuition (+55)
+10 from that bard spell that lets you add half your caster level (20 from chameleon) to several rolls (+65)
ok it continues eating me several lines of text.
the final modifier at level 21 is of 105 (with some DM fiat on a spell that boosts anything as long as it's used to change your position in the diplomacy table)
 
@Zachiel: what's all that about?
Wilder PP?
 
no
 
yeah, that's a skill bonus
 
bard/chameleon perform checks
 
aha
 
8:55 PM
nice way to say "and now you shut up in awe while I sing something. Wanna make a CD 110 save on will?"
DC*
 
they have a 5% chance, anyway
 
once a lvl 6 bard did that to me while I was on the stage
I didn't roll a 20
 
you could probably actually beat that DC consistently with moment of perfect mind and similar shenanigans to the ones you're using, but for Concentration
 
"I didn't ask you to make the "help another" action, she said
 
at best that's 1/round, and then only for the Idiot Crusader; most will cap at 1/2 rounds
 
8:56 PM
hahaha that would be cool
what's at 1/round?
I'm looking for ways to have my incantatrix cohort (maximum level 17) persist me lvl6 spells with ease
 
moment of perfect mind is a 1st-level Diamond Mind counter that allows you to replace one Will save with a Concentration check at the same DC, but since it's a martial maneuver, you need to recover it after using it
the Idiot Crusader recovers every round, which means he can use it every round
but Swordsages and Warblades need to use actions in the following round to recover it
...actually, if that was all the Swordsage was doing, he could do it 1/round too
because it uses different actions
non-Idiot Crusaders would have to wait several rounds before re-using it
 
+3 regional feat, +5 from other feats, +4 from a fancy lab, +2 from me helping and then my ideas on how to raise that spellcraft check for long enough are over.
Anyhow. ToB makes my webmaster cry in pain, so no crusaders. Especially, no 1d2 crusaders.
 
Idiot Crusader is not the same as 1d2 Crusader
and Tome of Battle is the best-designed 3.5 product WotC ever made, your webmaster is a fool, and I'd refuse to play with him on those grounds alone
banning Tome of Battle is equivalent to saying either 1. I do not understand 3.5, or 2. I want martial types to suck.
and I am not OK with a DM who makes either statement
 
nobody here in italy wants tob in their web-based game
 
I'm quite certain that's incorrect since I've spoken with Italians who use it
 
9:02 PM
I guess it's because most players had their characters built a long time ago
 
that's just weird
I build new characters constantly
 
on mass multiplayer play by chat sites?
 
ok, never participated in one of those
like I said, weird concept to me
 
just imagine
the first players make their characters on certain assumptions
that become really weak when a feat like darkstalker comes out
 
and really, 3.5 is a terrible system for that because it's so wildly variable and when you have that many people there's no way they can be on an even playing field
see, that's just wrong-headed
 
9:04 PM
so the whole manual is not added to the allowed material
 
Darkstalker does little-to-nothing to a Wizard's relative power
he has dominated the game since the PHB was published
and will continue to do so no matter what supplements you add
the more supplements you have in 3.5, the closer to balance you become
even if you never get particularly close
 
meanwhile, several other players create characters based on the assumption that darkstalker or improved buckler defense is not there
 
in fact, banning the PHB is one of the best ways to improve the game's balance
Improved Buckler Defense is an awful feat
 
I've seen a game where we don't use most material from settings other than planeswalk
 
updating a character isn't that hard, A., and B., why would someone complain about Darkstalker but not, say, contingency?
 
9:06 PM
but we can use items and feats and all from dragon magazines
 
"Planeswalk"? You mean Planescape?
 
the combat metaplay is totally different from a core only game
yeah sry
planescape
 
also, not using other settings' material is pretty common
dumb, but common
@Zachiel this is not really true in the slightest
 
it's like "i have a ring of silent spells because I know he's gonna have a cloak of shadows"
 
things that could genuinely impact the metaplay are like
whether or not Craft Contingent Spell is in play, whether or not Celerity is in play
 
9:07 PM
it's like "i make a lvl 16 warlock because it doesn't care if I lose initiative"
celerity is in play there
 
what, why on earth would anyone not care about initiative?
at high levels of optimization, initiative more-or-less decides battles
 
craft contingent spell has been banned after everyone had +20 to their to hit roll during the first round
yeah but it was more like
 
that's not a particularly powerful thing to do with CCS
 
initiative
belt of battle
cast spells
charge, jump hit make a complete attack
 
see, with CCS and celerity and the like in play
 
9:09 PM
five dead GS 20 opponents with a 15dv character
and we don't use personalized items
except for armors and weapons
(and shields)
celerity/time stop/delayed fireballs is deadly
and let's not talk about shivering touches
 
there is no reason why anyone should ever be hit
there are many far more devastating things you can do during time stop than delayed-blast fireball
if you're fighting someone with 9th-level spells and you don't have Fire Immunity, something is wrong
anyway, gotta go
later
 
like if you're a 15th level character fighting alongside with two epic characters against a wiz17dervish10godknowswhatelse vampire that might happen
luckily she had resistance to fire 15
and luckily the lvl12 warrior that was with them had enough hp to resist the hits even by failing her saves
and luckily the dm rolled only a 2 on time stop
@krian just a bookmark for you. Read above.
 
10:15 PM
Man, these FATE questions are confusing because of the language shift in the rules.
 
@BESW yes
Merry Christmas all
 
Happy Christmas.
@C.Ross Yeah, I mean, the kickstarter ruleset has dropped the word 'tag' entirely.
 
@BESW yeah, that's a significant shift
 
@C.Ross ...was that a bad pun?
 
@BESW it wasn't, but it is now :-)
 
10:22 PM
This weekend I found myself trying use the word shift in the FATE sense at my D&D 4e game.
Everyone was very confused.
 
@BESW I bet they were
my gaming group plays PF and Fate and it's sometimes hard for people to go back and forth
often I get people wanting to spend Action points (I use the version from the Eberron 3.5 book) to declare things about the scene
sometimes I even allow it
 
I can see it.
 
11:12 PM
yay 2k ^_^
 
@LitheOhm I think you're 13 years late to that.
Also it's pronounced Y2K.
 
@BESW I cannot find this word shift in the glossary in this 4e monster manual
@BESW haha :)
 
@LitheOhm Shifting is the term for voluntary non-opportunity-attack-provoking movement, similar to 3.5's five-foot-step.
 
ah, k. Thank you
 
The most common use of shift is that every creature can take a move action to shift 1 square (exactly like 3.5), but many classes and creatures have powers or features that let them shift under different circumstances (goblins get to shift 1 square when you miss them with a melee attack) or shift greater distances (monks have access to powers that grant insane shifts, like your-speed-plus-Wis-mod).
So it's useful to have a generic term for that kind of movement, rather than the extremely specific five-foot-step.
Hi, @Zachiel
@LitheOhm You'll find a lot of other terms like that in the MM3 monster blocks that aren't defined in the glossary because they're very basic 4e terms.
 
11:23 PM
hello @BESW
sry for my short memory. Did I already tell you what Kryan said? XD
 
@Zachiel Not me, but I scrolled through the conversation a bit.
What's your summary?
 
we're using a subset of rules that noone else is familiar with, determining an optimal build in that context is just too hard to do
 
@Zachiel Aw.
 
understanding what's strong is hard
 
It looked to me like it was mostly not allowing the outliers of 3.x, but whatever.
 
11:34 PM
it's not using many recent manuals
for example I can't rely on stealth because without lords of madness there's no darkstalker feat and blinsight sees you
 
@Zachiel Honestly, strong is a term that's almost impossible to define precisely in these contexts. Generally things like "dealing a lot of damage" and "being hard to kill" are considered strong, but versatile utility can trump those if handled creatively.
@Zachiel Blindsight is... very rare.
 
frequent enough to have me avoid going aruond with less than 100 hp at lvl 20
One occurrency is enough to kill me
however, a 1st level spell gives blindsight
and my favourite prey, dragons, have blindsight
 
11:53 PM
draconomicon in 3.0
is
you see?
nobody can make tactics with unfamiliar limitations
however, attacking ends the spell
I need superior invisibility
 
I can totally see not allowing 3.0. Later 3.5 books though... I get the impression your GM subscribes to the idea that the GM is in competition with the PCs, and is limiting the ammunition available to you.
 
1
Q: How are comments removed when they are no longer relevant?

LeezardI see that a comment can be flagged but I take that as a function for comments that are offensive in some way. In cases where a comment is not relevant because the question/answer has morphed in to something else, what is done to weed out comments that are no longer useful? As example: Crime In...

 
A GM can always kill the PCs at the slightest provocation; using tactics and restricting PC access to the tools to deal with those tactics is... petty, really. If he doesn't want you to have access to certain abilities, he shouldn't overuse tactics that exploit that lack.
But then, that's my opinions about running a game and I know they're far from universal.
 
@besw we don't have a GM. we have a full staff of GMs. The ammo limiting is because we all starrted core only and then little by little every time someone founded a new website he maybe added something he wanted to use
the game changes a lot by changing the allowed manuals
 
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