TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:53

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Those are some lovely comprehensive campus links you provided.

I remember my campus website was pretty pants about that stuff.

Novian

02:48

Somehow I think we have been doing Detect Evil Wrong or I am overthinking something.

Does it work on anything evil or just things with Evil Aura's like Evil Clerics or undead?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Novian it's a function of how evil they are.

Novian

Well then one of my Feats side effects is utterly pointless.

It gives me a chaotic aura much like a chaotic cleric. However My alignment is also Chaotic so Id register to Detect Chaos the same either way.

Detect Chaos is exactly the same as Detect evil But the base spell is detect evil and easier to refer to.

if D&D 3.5 were a computer program it would be a coders nightmare, so much defunct code and weird things.

I dont think It would be possible to completely debug it if it were.

well sorry for the weird analogy enjoy your evening/day

so whats the point of Aura's? If your good detect good will show it without the aura.

or am I misunderstanding you.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

03:04

@Novian it's a function of HD

d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm

take a look at the table

Novian

ok I think i get it.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

so yes, if you're chaotic, the spell will register you as a viable target.

the strength of the aura is a function of all your class features

Novian

A Clerics Aura(Or my own due to the Anarchic feat I took.) advances faster than a chaotic non cleric creature.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yes

you're still going with that silly PrC?

Novian

the feat isnt from that.

its just a group of feats with the type Anarchic.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

03:07

minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1355

Novian

like General Feats are general

HA! THAT GUIDE IS MISSING ONE THING.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Novian a sense of moderation about caps lock?

Novian

It says you cant do Anarchic Initiate until 13, Which is normally true. Unless you take Flexible Mind or Education.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Novian oookay.

Novian

Where is cognition theif?

hmm time to hit the books

that suggestion is utterly hilarious and makes up for the Lack of powers a Wilder Suffers from.

Novian

03:50

Im starting to like the Schism Power

I can slightly offset its penalty with a feat.

and Surge with it.

while I do something else

gotta wait till next level to get Schism though.

BESW

06:47

I would like to canvass suggestions for how to run a multi-phase fight against an evil dragon and cultists of Tiamat.

I'm especially interested in location/terrain: it must take place in an area dedicated to Tiamat, and I want it to feel like that.

System is D&D 4e, party level is roughly 22 or 23, goal is memorable boss fight.

BESW

08:02

...how do people pronounce the dragon god Io's name?

Because, um. howjsay.com/index.php?word=io

I also once heard a radio announcer talking about Jupiter's moon, Ten.

LitheOhm

@BESW sounds fun

BESW

@LitheOhm I'm currently looking at using the Frozen Fire terrain hazard and having the dragon's phases be based on the blizzard, earthquake, and volcanic dragons from the MM3.

But I'm also considering stacking the dragons instead of making them phases, so instead of being three elites he's one solo with three elites' worth of turns each round.

It'd stack auras and effects in a cruel kind of way, but it'd also mean he's one debuffable package.

I like the former because it's a phased fight and I love me some phased fights. I like the latter because it lets me give the party a multi-headed Tiamatian dragon to fight, and makes the encounter a lot more intense.

LitheOhm

08:47

@BESW I like the phased fight aspect too. Multi-headed dragon for a Tiamat specialty is a bonus. The 4E mechanics are wasted on me sadly - I have no XP in that system.

BESW

Okay, concept: The party is sent into a cavernous temple to Tiamat beneath a major city (home of Bahamut's dragonpope), where a dragon and his cultists are working to raise a volcano.

The fight begins in an icy cavern where the dragon uses the power of blizzards to fend the party off. When reduced to a certain number of hp, the dragon brings the cavern down and retreats, forcing the party to clamber through the ruined ice with a skill challenge in which successes can restore expended resources.

They come to the temple itself where the dragon is exhorting the cultists to hurry up with the ritual. The dragon takes on the aspect of earthquakes to combat the party with the earth itself. If the party takes out too many cultists, the dragon must spend actions to continue the ritual. When that phase takes the right amount of damage, the volcano begins to erupt.

The dragon begins to channel the power of the volcano, opening up fissures and vents and filling the room with clouds of noxious gas as the party defeats it and reverses the ritual, calming the angry volcano.

Martin Sojka

10:34

@BESW Same as in the original "Ιώ" - "ee-OH".

BESW

11:37

I just spent five minutes panicking that something was on fire before figuring out the upstairs neighbors are cooking.

...I'm clearly not used to living in an apartment building yet.

@MartinSojka Hrm. I have a terrible habit of blissfully mangling pronunciations.

Martin Sojka

@BESW Of note is that this is not the "official" English pronunciation, just the one I use. I just prefer to go back to the original sounds of words when used in either the original context or a one directly derived from it (as is the case of a dragon god).

BESW

@MartinSojka For "Io" I tend to do a blend of "EE-oh" and "yoh."

Sort of swallowing the first syllable.

Probably mostly because "Io'vanthor" is a mouthful however you say it. I learned long ago not to give one's players too many complicated nonsense words to memorize, and this campaign had already learned Samrajya, Bael Turath, and Arkhosia.

Martin Sojka

It's nearly the same pronunciation as the first three letters of "Iowa" in the US, for the record. :)

I still prefer "ee.OH". :D

BESW

eeOH provides less ground for "I.O.U." jokes.

(This is the kind of thing I have to consider when naming things for my campaigns.)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:29

@BESW have you read worldbreakers yet?

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton I've been experimenting with them a little, mixing with phased fights.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

But yeah, epic boss-fights have multiple "stages" interesting environments (that change every stage) and a way for each character to be awesome.

BESW

I'm thinking about turning the MM3 elemental dragons' expanding aura mechanic into a worldbreaker.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton I'm finding it increasingly difficult to make my paladin feel loved.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW Yes

Having played a pally to 30...

the best solution is an axe to the back of the head. Paladins are very hard to have "fun" with

I don't know why.

BESW

He's a healadin, which may be contributing.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:36

... oh gods no

okay, so does he want to be leader-striker?

leader-defender?

BESW

Being able to spam LoH as much as needed is great! If you get into one fight a day.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW yes, it's not solving the problem. Which is why not having fun.

okay, so... get me character requirements

BESW

He's got the feat that gives him extra LoH every milestone, but that's... a band-aid at best.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW that's a trap, TBH

so what's his thematic thing, what does he have fun doing, and what else does he want to do to support the party?

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton I honestly don't know. This is Colin's tiefling, who has gone through so much over his life... he started out as a desk jockey for the Turathi CIA, and became a feylock to get out after he was disillusioned.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:38

@BESW ... right.

BESW

He had a paladin multiclass feat, because the fey pact was just an agreement of convenience and he's really dedicated to Avandra. Also because Divine Challenge + Eyebite is mean.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

so he and I should probably have a chat. Because I suffered from a paladin as controller and... it just kinda sucked the fun out of things.

but what does he want to do?

BESW

As a lock he specialized in charm and dominate.

Then our leader left island and Colin volunteered to step up, so he fulfilled his oath to the fey and became a full paladin.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

... ah

Yeah....

so I'm happy to make him a proper striker-leader on a theme of "devotee of Avandra"

or make suggestions towards one

cause otherwise it's no fun

BESW

He'd probably like to make it himself, but I imagine he'd be open to suggestions.

He's not online right now though.

I dropped him a line in the chat and we'll see how he responds.

I really can't guess exactly what he wants; he's very much a "whatever the party needs" kind of guy, but he's also got some very strong ideas about what he'd like to do.

And he frequently surprises me with his choices.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:46

@BESW well, let's see if we can't add all of this into the hopper and figure something out

BESW

He hopes to use an epic destiny (not sure which) that lets him became an angel or spirit that embodies a concept: that concept is The Noble and Just Human Empire, and he'll be the inspiring idea behind Nerath.

Sort of a Bael Turath Done Right kind of thing.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@BESW oh, there are a couple of those

some even don't suck

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton heh.

At the moment, once the radiant battlemind leaves, we'll have two regular players each playing two PCs: the paladin and a battlemind by one, and the kobold monk and a push wizard or debuff rogue by the other. And occasionally there'll be a pink bugbear slayer.

doppelgreener

@BESW Ok. I have just first-hand completely experienced that total inability of a Chamorro to articulate something that only exists on a gut level for them.

7

A: Are there any benefits to being a small character?

Yes, there is a benefit: You have your small race's benefits! In just asking about playing a small character, you're leaving out something important: you don't play a small character, you play as a small race and have their unique benefits! You get to be a Kobold (+2 Con, and +2 Cha or Dex), w...

I am totally taken aback as to why this person doesn't get it. It's so simple. Why don't they understand? Pick a small race if you like one. They don't necessarily appeal to you, if so don't pick one. It's simple. There's nothing more to it. They're good if you like them.

BESW

13:02

@JonathanHobbs Yeah, I think I get it.

He's looking at it purely mechanically, from a CharOp Pov.

doppelgreener

Only, they're not taking a dump in my car / destroying my forests / doing something hugely insulting. I totally get the frustration and the not even knowing what to say thing.

BESW

In terms of creating the mechanically most powerful character you can, Small creatures are in many ways pointless to even consider.

doppelgreener

Yeah. They are expecting there to be something there for them.

BESW

The first half of your answer is really pretty much pointless, to be honest.

doppelgreener

It is their benefits, though.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

13:04

@BESW ugh

doppelgreener

The question itself is pointless.

BESW

Every race has stat boosts, racial utility power, and racial features. Small races don't have more or better than Medium races, which is his point.

doppelgreener

@BESW I know. His point is pointless though. Just don't pick one if it matters! There is no counterbalance, either it matters to you, or it doesn't and you can happily play a small character.

BESW

Small races get distinct, noticeable mechanical penalties without compensation, and are therefore mechanically inferior choices unless their features happen to perfectly coincide with your concept and overcome their penalties--which is true of any race, you choose it because its features work for your concept.

@JonathanHobbs That is not pointless. That is a real, honest concern and the answer to his question is "No, not really."

Just because it's a quick you have no problem with doesn't mean it doesn't bug a lot of people that a whole subset of races are getting the shaft.

It's weird to me, because the 3.5 system --notorious for laughing at balance-- makes Small a very balanced choice. 4e --a system that throws out everything else in an attempt to be as balanced as possible-- pats Small on the head and tells it to go play while the grownups talk.

doppelgreener

But there are benefits. What other race gets to shift when their attacker misses, and what other race gets to turn invisible and hide and get ghost sound like a gnome does? They just aren't benefits that attempt to counterbalance the disadvantages. They're benefits targeted at people who don't care that they might have them.

BESW

13:09

@JonathanHobbs You can say the exact same thing about any other race's features.

doppelgreener

@BESW I know. Which means this is the exact same kinda thing about any other race. Pick the race with the stuff you care about that is compatible with what you want to do.

That is why it is so ultra simple to me. Yes, they come with disadvantages, but that means if they affect you, you don't pick them.

Otherwise it is naturally just like any other race consideration.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs No Medium race in 4e has such massive disadvantages as "Denied ever accessing an entire swath of weapon choices.

doppelgreener

I know.

BESW

That's the problem. 4e races don't have disadvantages ...unless you're Small.

And Small gets nothing to compensate for being singled out. It isn't balanced. This is fact.

doppelgreener

I get that's a problem, but only if you want to do that stuff and be small. And you should not be doing that stuff if you are small, and you should not be small if you want to do that stuff.

I know that.

I just... I'm going in circles here. I can only repeat myself.

BESW

13:11

I'm with you on not being too bothered by it, but it's not a pointless or ridiculous concern.

doppelgreener

Alright, well, I don't have much else to say!

BESW

I'm going back to the original question: "Small characters face a number of disadvantages. Are there any benefits to make up for this?"

The answer is no. Plain and simple, NO.

You're bringing your subjective response and opinion into an objective question, and that's why you're banging your head against the wall.

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Colin's interested in hearing your ideas, at least.

doppelgreener

Well, shit, I don't know. I'm just going to delete my answer until I feel less frustrated.

And then maybe leave it deleted since I do not have the answer the guy is looking for (even if I think I do have an answer)

BESW

Maybe don't delete it, but sit on any edits you're tempted to make.

doppelgreener

I have already made an edit, and the edit is pointless, because the guy doesn't give a damn about that ;o

BESW

13:17

@JonathanHobbs He already accepted an answer.

Your answer is now there for posterity, not for him.

Also, happy Christmas.

doctorwhogifs.tumblr.com/post/38768513064

Cat

Happy Christmas all!

BESW

I'm doing my best not to be in a miscommunication-based foul mood myself, so sympathies.

@Cat Yopp!

Cat

;d

:D, I meant

Don't the advantages of being small depend largely on your DM?

(Sorry, haven't read that answer thread yet)

BESW

@Cat Well, the guy's asking about mechanical advantages in 4e.

Cat

Ahh...wouldn't have a clue then.

BESW

13:21

In 3.5, being Small gets you things like +1 to hit and AC, to compensate for your reduced weapon damage.

Cat

God bless 3.5 then, lol

(yes, I realize it's full of faults)

BESW

In 4e, you get... access to some feats and enchantments that help compensate, but that just turns into a feat tax.

@Cat No system's perfect. It's just a matter of choosing the system with the flaws one's group is least upset by.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@besw does your game support refluffing?

Cat

Hey @BrianBallsun-Stanton! Merry Xmas!

@BESW point well taken!

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Cat Merry Newtonmas to yourself.

Cat

13:23

:D

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton If that means what I think it does, yes.

Cat

Is Christmas Newton's birthday as well?

Or am I just being foolish ;) ?

BESW

Isaac Newton

| influenced = | awards = | religion = Arianism; for details see article | signature = Isaac Newton signature.svg | signature_alt = Is. Newton | relatives = }} Sir Isaac Newton PRS MP (25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727) was an English physicist, mathematician, astronomer, natural philosopher, alchemist and theologian, who has been considered by many to be the greatest and most influential scientist who ever lived., [http://books.google.com/books?id=jpFrgSAaKAUC&pg=PA315 Extract of page 315] His monograph Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica, published in 1687, laid the foundati...

Cat

Cool! Now that's a holiday I can get behind!

:)

Although Newton himself would have problems with replacing the other fella, I'm sure.

doppelgreener

@BESW Alright, well, bearing that in mind I modified my answer. I'll sit on any future edits I guess, but for now this one doesn't feel like I'm banging my head against a wall.

BESW

13:27

@JonathanHobbs That's a much better answer.

doppelgreener

@BESW It was in part because I didn't articulate some of that stuff until after conversing with you.

And didn't understand completely what the guy was looking for.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs I do my best thinking when it's at other people.

@JonathanHobbs I once saw a gnome use mage hand and ghost sound to levitate a candle and make spooky sounds at a bunch of goblins guarding a cave.

"AHHH! It's coming to EAT US!"

"RUUUUN!"

doppelgreener

@BESW It's for things like this I would love to play a Wizard.

BESW

Apparently goblins, like the criminals of Gotham, are a superstitious and cowardly bunch.

doppelgreener

@BESW Well... they're sort of like the mice of the world, aren't they?

(relatively speaking, and ignoring the actual mice)

BESW

13:35

@JonathanHobbs That's an interesting attitude.

I always looked at them more like locusts.

But then, I'm more inclined to use kobolds or gnolls or something.

doppelgreener

@BESW Locusts get to be dumb insect swarms. Maybe they are like locusts, but goblins, kobolds and gnolls are all sapient.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Heh. That's one of D&D's weirdnesses that I like to explore sometimes.

doppelgreener

Unlike locusts, they have to carve their spot, protect their home, and hunt and stuff.

BESW

Many of the 'horde races' don't. They take over a settled area, consume it to the ground and then move on. They're parasites.

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh. I thought kobolds and goblins and gnolls all created homes and strongholds and cities and stuff.

BESW

13:45

They move around the edges of civilization chewing on its hem.

Well, depends on your setting of course.

And there are always exceptions.

But most of the horde races have no interest in settling down or learning how to provide for themselves. They'd rather kill the farmer and eat his crops.

Kobolds are a notable exception; they're more like rats or mice, actually. They settle in around a powerful figure (like a dragon), entrench themselves with traps and hidden lairs, and do minor raids of local villages for supplies but never try to overrun the villages.

Kobolds are only ever more than a nuisance if the powerful figure mobilizes them.

BESW

14:01

Haruum.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

mmm, damage buffs. odd choice

oh well. is a... fascinating challenge

your players always give me such fascianting challenges

BESW

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Imagine GMing for them.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

heh.

BESW

It keeps me on my toes, at least.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yes

Zachiel

14:03

that seems an interesting discussion

BESW

"We have a hostage! We shall negotiate! Hey, guy, we've got your daughter and we're dangling her off the bridge! Give us your prisoners!"
"...Eh, I have plenty of kids. Your move."
"Ummm...." [lets go]

Zachiel

but now I have to go. It's Xmas and my grandparents need some more attention today XD

BESW

@Zachiel Have fun!

Zachiel

Grandma's gonna talk for 1h about how the neighbor's washing machine drives her nuts, while we hear nothing

I'll try to hf nonetheless XD

cy

BESW

Ta.

doppelgreener

14:07

@BESW That explains a lot

I'm going to sleep. o:

BESW

@JonathanHobbs G'night.

doppelgreener

I am also thinking I will go do some episodic adventures before I run any sort of campaign for my friends

in part because I don't want to be doing this much planning before just playing D&D, and in part because I want to learn the system better first before I make a full-on campaign. :)

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Could be a good idea. Maybe set it up so it could be, like, the party's exploits as they travel toward the campaign setting?

doppelgreener

(gives me more time to plan it anyway)

@BESW That sounds like a cool idea actually.

BESW

If there's anything they really like, have the NPCs travel into the campaign later or something.

doppelgreener

14:09

@BESW Fuck yes ok. ;o

BESW

@JonathanHobbs ...you are amusingly enthused.

doppelgreener

@BESW Well that is fantastic idea. I get to have "Hey, it's that guy from before!" moments which would be entirely surprising, like your players seeing you used your wizard.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs It's always nice to be able to reward players for showing interest in the world.

doppelgreener

In a campaign setting it would be less surprising. Of course everyone is a recurring character.

@BESW Yeah. And in this format I get to be more experimental as I try stuff out, and don't have to justify it and link it within an entire campaign.

BESW

@JonathanHobbs But if it does work....

doppelgreener

14:13

@BESW The good stuff I get to run with. :)

BESW

@JonathanHobbs And it looks like you planned it that way!

The best GMs plans are the ones you come up with afterward.

doppelgreener

@BESW Hahaha that is consistent with my brief GMing experiences

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Just means you need to learn to work in the happy accidents.

I felt a lot better after I read some of Ursula Vernon's author notes on Digger.

She says that for the first third of the novel she was basically just throwing out ideas. She had a general movement she wanted, but no exact end in sight and certainly no clue how to get there.

So she just wrote what seemed interesting at the time, and later on it all clicked together and made sense.

My best campaigns work on the same principle: the first several adventures are just kinda explorative, "ooh, shiny."

doppelgreener

Alright good :)

BESW

Anyway. You should go to bed.

doppelgreener

14:19

I can see a sort of plan from here

BESW

So should I, but my file is compiling.

doppelgreener

fiddle around, then fiddle around with stuff actually perhaps relevant to the setting, then fiddle around within the setting. we might even end up right in the campaign, yay

alright :)

I'm off then! Night night @BESW

BESW

@JonathanHobbs ttfn

...this RPG stuff is such a breath of fresh air in the middle of this book project.

@JonathanHobbs Perhaps you will find up fiddling while the Bastion burns.

(Seriously; if your party find an entirely different conflict they want to get engaged in, let them and have the elemental plot rage in the background.)

(Your world is going to be strong enough to support that kind of thing.)

Transcript for