TRPG General Chat

BESW

00:18

Sean Patrick Cain wrote a twitter thread compiling responses to the question "what 10 games would you use to introduce newcomers to the wide world of indie RPGs?"

momatoes shared on twitter "the most commonly mentioned #ttrpg" in responses to Sean Patrick Cain's question, divided "into quintile chunks"

user530439

Is anyone aware of a question along the lines of "in 5e can you take actions out of combat"? I tried searching a few but everyone just assumes it to be true (which seems reasonable to me, as assuming someone can't walk or drink beer unless they roll init is unconvincing at best...)

BESW

"Pretend I'm A Bear, a game design twitter thread" by Meguey Baker.

Hannah Shaffer shared on twitter the "WIP draft of a section of Questlandia" about Making space for a "No"

momatoes shared on twitter how she would "explain exactly what TTRPGs are to 50-something thesis/dissertation panelists" in academia.

doppelgreener

01:16

@Non-humanPerson or cast a cantrip, change clothes, pick a lock, etc

nitsua60

02:40

@goodguy5 <doffs cap>

@Catofdoom2 I've had plenty of them. I'd attribute it to us all being straight with each other, listening more than talking, enjoying each other's company outside of RPGs, and treating each other like adults.

BESW

@nitsua60 Would it be useful to link Toward Better Tables, do you think?

nitsua60

@BESW Shouldn't hurt.

AncientSwordRage

03:21

@goodguy5 Daily Quordle #25
7️⃣6️⃣
🟥9️⃣

Cat of doom2

03:59

@AncientSwordRage i thought you were sleeping

BESW

04:12

@AncientSwordRage I'm stuck on A1 with one guess to go and only three letters.

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage good night

BESW

The DreamSEA Bundle hosted by momatoes. From across Southeast Asia, we present this exceptional bundle of ten special games. Dive deep into the bundle into an immense variety of playstyles, stories, emotional peaks and valleys. From dice-based adventures to tower masquerades; solo forays and burning cities; even the heartbreaking singularity of a breakup to the vast reaches of space. To unlock more games, purchase the bundle at higher tiers.

goodguy5

05:47

4 6
8 9
(did it on my phone and not convenient to transfer)

Glazius

6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣4️⃣

goodguy5

@Glazius nice!

I haven't done today's yet

Glazius

It's still #25, I think?

Thomas Markov

8

Q: What actions/bonus actions/reactions can a character perform out of combat?

DnD 5e has a fairly clear set of rules governing a player's possible Actions in Combat, and in other fast-paced situations a GM may break time into rounds. Among the listed actions, some would seem to initiate combat (e.g., Attack) but others are routinely performed out of combat (e.g., casting a...

goodguy5

well, I haven't done tomorrow's yet

Thomas Markov

05:54

18

Q: Can a Bonus Action be used outside of a combat encounter?

Is there anything preventing a character from using an ability such as Second Wind, or casting a spell such as Misty Step, when not engaged in a combat encounter? The rules indicate you get one Bonus Action on your turn. My assumption is that a character gets a "turn" every round whether they a...

dnd-5e spells class-feature

And for reactions:

5

Q: Can Misty Escape be used out of combat?

DnD 5e: What if my character is not in combat when using Misty Escape? For example, she could be imprisoned in a cell and use it to escape the cell. In that case, she teleports, but is not in combat when she rematerializes. Can she then stay invisible "Until she attacks or casts a spell?" "Until ...

dnd-5e spells combat warlock

Also about reactions out of combat.

BESW

06:15

Ah, my previous score was on the practice Quordle. Today's actual Quordle was 5/8//9/7

user530439

@ThomasMarkov Thanks, yeah, I found those one but none just straight answer "can you use actions out of combat", eg the first assumes it to be true with "Similar to how you can take an action outside of combat ..."

user530439

There's a lot of comments asking for citations too unfortunately :/

BESW

I don't think it's possible to answer unless/until the querent and/or answerer establish a shared understanding of how the word 'action' is being used, because 5e's pattern of swapping between idiomatic and jargonistic language without signalling the switch creates a default atmosphere of confusion.

user530439

I don't think that's really the problem here. I don't know that "action" is ever used outside combat, although there is some confusion related to bonus actions in that bonus actions aren't just "quick". I think it's fairly obvious that you can walk/interact with items/cast spells outside combat. However, is that answerable from an "I absolutely need a citation to believe it" point of view? I doubt it.

BESW

06:31

As an exception-based system that prefers to use idiomatic language, 5e fails to be clear when it neglects to signal its code-switching.

From what I've seen, 5e's use of "action" in the combat mechanics is about as rigorously jargonistic as 5e gets, with the implication that it is combat-specific jargon; but the text doesn't clearly signal that narrative contexts change mechanical application. That means the word "action" in conversation about the text doesn't have textual support for code-switch signalling. Effectively the text lays a synonym trap.

5e is very clear that it should not be relied upon to provide rigorous support.

The text isn't written with a careful analytical lens in mind. This is deliberate and done for many reasons, not least of which is to distance the new text from the previous text in the minds of the previous text's critics.

Thomas Markov

“Combat”, i.e. Initiative, is just a measuring stick we place on the narrative. Tracking time precisely out of game doesn’t change what a character can do in game.

BESW

(Compare 3e which made claims to analytical rigor which the text failed to meet.)

user530439

I don't know if that's actually happening? I can't think of a place where 5e uses action to mean a more general colloquial meaning.

user530439

@ThomasMarkov I agree, but I've seen many people argue otherwise so I'm looking for something other than "common sense" 😅

Bardic Wizard

06:51

@BESW thank you. Blame the spinners guild for it, as is usual when I have a decent idea.

Thomas Markov

@Non-humanPerson the spell descriptions of suggestion and mass suggestion.

BESW

07:24

@Non-humanPerson That's the point. If the text used "action" idiomatically in a consistent way the problem wouldn't exist. The text's systemic ambiguity about jargon/idiom code-switching in general, makes reader conversations about the word "action" unclear because the text hasn't provided a model for that distinction.

AncientSwordRage

08:42

@Catofdoom2 I wasn't sleeping unfortunately, but as it gets later try to not be on my phone/chat as much... I find if I do I end up asleep even later

BESW

10:18

ZineQuest 2021 Flash Sale A bundle hosted by LunarShadow Designs with content from 17 creators. A collection of some of the best games and supplements to emerge from ZineQuest 2021, on sale as part of Creators Day, 18th of February 2022.

NautArch

13:49

o/

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch \o

I'm still so buzzed as to how our D&D session went last night/yesterday

NautArch

Tell me more, tell me more

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch It's all here

but I got to mess with an NPC via Minor Illusion and then shout down a phone

Other PCs also had their moments which was awesome :D

NautArch

@AncientSwordRage at some point imma need to read through this campaign :)

AncientSwordRage

14:04

@NautArch yeah :D

goodguy5

ooooh. less than 500 from "trusted user tools"

NautArch

Was reading a recent article about salamanders and their bloated DNA.

Basically saying they really shouldn't still be around, but they are.

goodguy5

@NautArch more DNA means more Human

NautArch

14:19

@goodguy5 MASSIVELY more DNA.

Like most mammals, birds, reptiles, fish fall within a narrow range of about .5-6 gigabases, while salamnders range from 10 to 120.

Massive segments of parasitic DNA.

goodguy5

that's wild.

NautArch

But they live for like 100 years.

goodguy5

so do we ish

NautArch

Super simple bodies, some don't even have lungs and the hearts are a single hollow ventricle with weak muscle walls.

One is so freaking specialized it basically has no brain or eyes. Just waits for an insect to walk by and it has a very highly developed tongue that can snag it absurdly fast.

But it's that super simple body with a massive DNA that they think allows them to regrow their body parts. Including their brain and heart.

BESW

Here For You by william. A relationship-focused Body Horror RPG

Clayton Notestine responded on twitter to Kickstarter's cryptocurrency statement with a series of crucial questions that the statement didn't address.

goodguy5

14:26

TIL that Axolotl are salamanders

NautArch

that they are!

goodguy5

that's wild.

NautArch

By far one of the most interesting articles i've read recently

goodguy5

I'd like to know their junk dna to native dna ratio

salamander dna regenerate human body hey hey hey, I've seen this in Spiderman, calm down science.

NautArch

THey'r actually reailzing the regeneration bit is much more complicated and not really cross-species.

We'd need our bodies to be as simple as theirs, which doesn't really work.

BESW

14:33

"Meet the homegrown game designers making the tabletop games we can't wait to play" article by Sebastian Yue for CBC. These creators are taking the TTRPG space by storm

NautArch

I'm reskimming the article and don't see anything splitting the native/junk ratio, but they also say that within the native are introns that have infiltrated.

but if we see about 15x gigabases more, it's probably(?) reasonable to say that the differnce in gigabases are the real junk.

BESW

Sing, Sweet Goddex by HarkMorper. A solo, journaling game of epic poetry, self-compassion, and celebrating yourself.

goodguy5

That's cool, but only 1-2 things really catch my attention.

Before the Tower Falls looks very much up my ally and will go onto the pile of games I'll never get to play.

Dear Great Cthulu is mildly interesting and I appreciate using 2d6 as a sort of d100.
(Ward Invisible Blood Arms but It Attracts Vermin - terrifying) But the Cthuluverse doesn't interest me at all and I think that I'm not the target for the game, idk.

Our Time on Earth seems like a really interesting experience.

BESW

I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for when you ping me about articles I share to say why you find them unsatisfying.

goodguy5

That's a good response. And I don't know what to do with it.

And I didn't say unsatisfying. Though I do see that it came off with a negative spin.

My original intent was "Thanks for sharing; I looked through it, here's what I liked and didn't", but I can see how that wouldn't be necessary.

communication is very difficult

BESW

14:48

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I was looking at it in the context of a history of things like telling me you don't like how a video is formatted.

Kaden Ramstack observed on twitter that "popularity on itchio is heavily influenced by people posting videos in the comments."

goodguy5

@BESW I can't quite parse this, I feel like I'm missing some context. could you assist?

BESW

Justin Achilli announced on twitter that "HUNTER layout just came in so we'll be proofing that over the next few days!" and added a list of twitter handles for the Hunter writers.

@goodguy5 Publishers on the online game market platform itch.io often share anecdotes about their personal experience with the mysterious algorithms that itch uses to choose what games it puts in front of its users. In this particular case, Ramstack noticed a very strong increase in visitors to one of his game pages and the only correlation he can identify is that the game page had someone leave a comment with an embedded video of the commenter playing the game.

goodguy5

@BESW Got it, thank you. neat!

BESW

So if anybody has a video of them playing a game, it'd be a Very Good Thing for the game's creator if you commented the video on their itchio game page.

(Probably. According to multiple anecdotes. Until the algorithm changes.)

Speaking of itchio and the algorithm, it's long been known that leaving anything less than a five-star review tanks the game's visibility to the point that it may never reach the front page again.

goodguy5

@BESW that seems.... bad......

BESW

15:00

Yes. Yes, it is.

goodguy5

I didn't know that "save or suck" existed in real life.

BESW

Self-publishing is wild and often unpleasant, because you have to be an expert in all aspects of marketing and distribution as well as actually making the thing from start to finish. And you either have to run your own store or be at the mercy of nonsense like the itch.io algorithm, which is still better SEO than most people are gonna accomplish on their own.

Shim's crowdfunding for The Snow Queen is remarkable in this context, because it's the first self-platformed crowdfunding I've ever heard of for a TRPG; no itchio, no Kickstarter, no indiegogo or GameOnTabletop.

Joel Harmon

@goodguy5 It's not just indie stuff, either. A friend who worked at a well known department store told me that giving anything less than a 10/10 review was taken negatively. I found this odd, because by default I'd have done something like 8 or 9 as very good, and it would need something exceptional to get 10.

BESW

Crowdfunding, because it needs to get lots of eyeballs very quickly, is almost exclusively the domain of existing platforms that can leverage their visibility on the creator's behalf.

goodguy5

That reminds me *rummages* True Mask Games finally put up the last of their "100+ Scenarios for ____" series on Drivethrurpg.

BESW

15:09

Crowdfunding: FEATHERED ADVENTURES / AVENTURES À PLUMES by Côme Martin. Play intrepid birds going on wild pulp adventures!

One of the stretch goals for Feathered Adventures is Jonaya Kemper writing a Darkwing Duck inspired playbook.

goodguy5

I randomly found that guy in a facebook RPG group and the booklets are cheap enough while still being engaging. it's nice to have a handful of "uh.... players are in ____ what's something they could run into"

BESW

Pidj Sorenson shared on twitter some additional information about The Station

Mitsa: Roleplaying in the Late 19th-Century Philippines by arisia. A Quick Guide to Roleplaying in the Late 19th-Century Philippines

NautArch

16:02

I'm having a really hard time understanding how if someone is getting a passive check how someone else can help them with that.

goodguy5

@NautArch Having a 3-year-old, I can see how someone would hinder them.....

What's the context?

NautArch

The main site question about helping on passive.

4

Q: Can the Help action raise a passive skill?

Other threads have (more or less) established that the passive versions of skills (there are only three in RAW) define a baseline result. RAW says that advantage grants a +5 to passive skills. The Help action grants advantage. Can a Help action (say from a friend or a familiar) provide advantage ...

dnd-5e skills helping

The Oracle

1

Q: Can I ask this question about visualizing combat, or will it get closed?

Can I ask this question without it getting closed? If it will get closed, is there some way to ask the question WITHOUT getting it closed? How to speed up combat by helping players to visualize the scene? We play D&D 5e over Discord, using voice and chat channels, and use D&D Beyond for chara...

discussion specific-question

Thomas Markov

@TheOracle @NautArch I think our three circles method might be a good answer to this question.

It's adaptable to the shared whiteboard idea that OP mentions.

Jack

16:30

What is the 3 circles method? It already sounds like the sort of thing I'm looking for.

We need something that's low-effort that helps move things along more quickly.

(Another darned issue is players not being ready for their turn when their turn comes around, but that's different, although perhaps related....)

Someone_Evil

We have a number of questions on tangential/related issues, but I assume you've already been through those

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch because (based on the quote in an answer) passive checks aren't passive. They're active and the equivalent of 'taking 10' from earlier editions

Advantage is equivalent to two players rolling separately and taking the highest result, so two players 'passively' doing a task could benefit in the same way? I mean narratively mapping what's happening to the mechanics is tracks for me

Cat of doom2

good morning

i'd like to thank all of you

i've reached an astounding 10 followers on twitch thanks to you guys

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage Advantage is equivalent to that unless the players have the same bonuses.

AncientSwordRage

16:46

@ThomasMarkov oh?

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage thank you especially. looking at these graphs or whatever after you followed it spiked so thank you

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 I bet that felt good

@Catofdoom2 algorithms work in mysterious ways

2 hours ago, by BESW

Kaden Ramstack observed on twitter that "popularity on itchio is heavily influenced by people posting videos in the comments."

Cat of doom2

can we maybe get 50 before my birthday?

@AncientSwordRage i don't even have 50 views yet so i have my doubts but maybe

granted it is severel months out

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 depends when your birthday is

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage late may

AncientSwordRage

16:57

@Catofdoom2 it's doable

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage isn’t

Cat of doom2

@ThomasMarkov :(

if you help out and follow i bet it is :) @ThomasMarkov

goodguy5

Then we should have a question to the effect of
"if two (or more) characters are being checked for the same passive check, should they get advantage, and therefor +5".

which I think is a good question

NautArch

17:29

@AncientSwordRage Ah, I think the issue is in how I treat passive. Those are truly passive - I don't let folks repeatedly do things like search for hidden doors constantly. Either they're looking actively, or they aren't.

But I get it now.

@ThomasMarkov @Jack I think this absolutely a good question for good subjective answers. And Thomas is right - we've got one!

Jack

@Someone_Evil Hmm, I think so, but maybe I'll take another look before posting.

@NautArch I'll post it then!

AncientSwordRage

@goodguy5 go for it, I'm still trying to start d&d neutral this year

@NautArch yeah the DMG quote blew my brains when I read it today

goodguy5

17:47

@AncientSwordRage done

AncientSwordRage

@goodguy5 found it

V2Blast

18:01

@Catofdoom2 Thomas was just clarifying their previous statement:

1 hour ago, by Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage Advantage is equivalent to that unless the players have the same bonuses.

Thomas said "is equivalent", when they meant to say "isn't".

(I'm just clarifying that Thomas wasn't addressing your statement about whether you could reach 50 followers by your birthday.)

goodguy5

18:20

oh hey, v2!

AncientSwordRage

18:47

@V2Blast oh that makes more sense

V2Blast

@goodguy5 Hello hello

goodguy5

@V2Blast always a pleasure seein you around

V2Blast

@goodguy5 Thank you! Good to see you as well :)

How've you been?

goodguy5

Good ^_^
Well, good considering the \*gestures at everything\*

NautArch

@Jack answer posted! @ThomasMarkov let me know if there's things you'd like to add in there.

Or if there should be another section with your view as a player

goodguy5

18:53

@NautArch Been playing fate? ;)

NautArch

@goodguy5 not yet!

on my list, though.

Next game we've got is a microscope to jointly create a new world to play in.

goodguy5

I've yet to play a Fate game I really liked, including the one I ran....

Unless you count the Dresden Files RPG

but I know it's got good bones, tbh, I think it'd make a great substitute rules for a D&D setting.

Part of that is just that if I'm playing a TTRPG, I want high fantasty/dungeon fantasy.

NautArch

@goodguy5 I haven't checked recently - has the new book come out yet? I did discover the dresden files comics are part of comixunlimited

@goodguy5 I've been playing a bit of Scum & Villainy as a player and absolutely love it,

And not just because I"m not GMing :P

goodguy5

I need to get a group to do some few-shots of different systems

I want to play torch.... bearer? (I always mess up the name), burning wheel, mouseguard, traveller, and some others

but it's hard

I love the bucket system and I might snag it; I think I'll call the "not quite melee" range "close", though.

NautArch

I wasn't sure what to call that

goodguy5

19:00

"near", "close", "tossing" (i.e. stones throw), and "doorbell" all come to mind.

V2Blast

I've never played any of those systems, just a bit of Fate. But the first short Fate campaign I played was run by someone inexperienced with the system

I did have a fun 4-session game of Fate set in the Avatar universe (during the end of Fire Lord Sozin's reign - our task was to assassinate Sozin)

Alright, gotta go pack - about to head out of town for the weekend

Have a good weekend, folks :)

NautArch

@V2Blast we've tried out the new pbta avatar. Just one session, but fun!

@goodguy5 near ain't bad. Also need to add in that I like this to remove numerical movement tracking.

goodguy5

19:16

@NautArch buT wHaT aBoUt HaLfLiNgS?!

Cat of doom2

19:42

@AncientSwordRage can we talk??

@Phoenices hi

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 now isn't a great time unfortunately

Phoenices

Hullo

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage some other time'

Thomas Markov

@NautArch Let's take some screenshots tonight

AncientSwordRage

20:09

@Catofdoom2 hopefully 🙂

@Catofdoom2 I can't spare much time to have a deep talk, but how're things with you?

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage confusing

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 sounds difficult to deal with

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage i feel bad for putting this on you but i have no one else still

AncientSwordRage

@Catofdoom2 is there anybody IRL you can talk to about it? I'm afraid I can't be here all the time 😕

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage not really

the girl i guess

AncientSwordRage

20:21

@Catofdoom2 I bet there's more people than you think who'd listen, but reaching out IRL can be a scary leap

Right I'm off to the shops to see what they have left in stock

Cat of doom2

@AncientSwordRage oka

goodguy5

21:08

@AncientSwordRage Also, your hometown is the same name as the township I recently moved from.

wait a second, you can have different names on different stacks?1

Someone_Evil

Yup, each profile is customized seperatly (with the option to copy across)

nitsua60

21:27

@NautArch I'm a big fan of microscope as part of setting-development.

Hot RPG Questions

23:22

6

Q: Did I overstep the players' agency by forcefully resolving conflict between one player and the rest of the group?

In my last game, conflict emerged between one of my players (let's call him Bob) and the rest of the team. Finally, I (as GM) stepped into it and forced the player to give up. Backstory A session before that, the team landed on a jungle planet in the ruins of an abandoned colony. There they were ...

gm-techniques system-agnostic group-dynamics

NautArch

@nitsua60 First time playing it and first time doing it. Just seemed like an obvious way to get the players to buy in to the world and understand how to influence it.

Transcript for