TRPG General Chat

Hot RPG Questions

01:29

2

Q: Given their huge variety, why is it so often concluded that the penalties needed to use a Weapon of Legacy are never worth it?

A common trend when discussing Weapons of Legacy is to compare their benefits to that of normal magical items, notice that they pretty much match up, and then conclude that because the Weapons of Legacy have extra penalties associated with them, they are clearly inferior to any comparable normal ...

Bardic Wizard

02:28

Proof I’m rubbing off on my siblings: my aunt got my little brother the board game Operation, and he immediately decided he was going to play it as an rpg. In his own words: “so this is the patient, and you’re gonna be the bad doctor who puts all the things back in his body, and I’m going to be the good doctor who takes them out, and you’re going to say what you’re doing and imma gonna respond!”

BESW

Anything can be an RPG if you try hard enough!

5

Bardic Wizard

@BESW that’s a good lesson to learn.

I am very proud of him for this and for his comment on capitalism that came out of noticing that the cards all have money on the back: “so the good doctor’s gonna get all of the money, but he’s not gonna be happy because he doesn’t have friends!!! And the bad doctor is happy because they’re doing bad things but they shouldn’t be happy! So do good things and make friends instead of money so you can be happy!!!!”

BESW

A really good and useful example is Six Spells To Help You With Your Curse by Riverhouse Games. A collection of self-care exercises.

Hot RPG Questions

02:47

1

Q: What spells didn't exist in 3.5 but exist in 5e?

What are the spells that exist in the Player's Handbook of D&D 5e but that didn't exist in D&D 3.5 core books? I'm not so much interested in renamed/merged spells but in spells with wholly new effects.

dnd-5e spells dnd-3.5e edition-comparison

trogdor

03:13

@BardicWizard XD

Powerdork

hello

trogdor

03:35

hi

Bardic Wizard

03:45

@Powerdork hello!

Powerdork

How do I link the tour in a comment? Is it just [tour]?

Or do I need to actually link the tour with Markdown?

trogdor

wouldn't you just copy paste the url for it?

rpg.stackexchange.com/tour

like that?

or do the comments frown on that or work differently or something?

BESW

11

Q: Could we have a [tour] short link in comments?

In comments, [help] expands to the text help center (with a link), [chat] expands to the text Role-playing Games Chat (with a link), [edit] becomes a link to edit the current question, and [tour] does nothing at all.

feature-request status-completed comments tour magic-links

Powerdork

It is, indeed, just [tour], I found by just posting.

trogdor

ah ok

that's cool

BESW

03:49

Helps with the max character limit.

trogdor

fair enough I guess

I don't like, contribute much to the site other than being in chat

and I guess it's arguable how much that is contribution as measured here XD

Bardic Wizard

@trogdor my siblings are hilarious most of the time. shrug that’s one of the reasons I love them beyond “they’re my siblings”

trogdor

XD

Powerdork

The comment. I want this new user to feel welcome and to give them practical play advice but I don't think the question is worth engaging with in site terms? I feel frustrated with the Stack Exchange format.

Bardic Wizard

But honestly 7yos say the funniest things

trogdor

03:52

yeah

it's been a while since either I or my siblings were 7

there isn't much of an age difference between us considering

Bardic Wizard

My siblings are 3 and 9 years younger than me and it’s sometimes a big gap between me (and my sister) and my little brother since we’re in such different stages of life

And then there are days like Monday where my mom said we all act like we’re around 4

trogdor

04:32

lol

Hot RPG Questions

07:01

4

Q: Can a Homunculus freely take a bonus action granted to it by a specific rule such as a spell?

After the errata / Tasha's, we know that you can use your character's bonus action to command a Homunculus to use a Spell Storing Item. I think we also know that a Homunculus can freely maintain Concentration on a spell cast from the Item, as Concentration requires no action. Let's say the Item c...

dnd-5e spells artificer bonus-action artificer-infusions

Hot RPG Questions

07:26

10

Q: Why do hobgoblins hate elves?

The section of the Monster Manual on hobgoblins (page 185) says under the "Strategic Thinkers" section that hobgoblins: hate elves and attack them first in battle over any other opponents, even if doing so would be a tactical error. But why do they do this? What is the lore reason why they hate...

dnd-5e lore elf

BESW

@HotRPGQuestions Because elves get all the good PR

trogdor

08:14

lol

or because they live in Dragon Age

which apparently has a whole thing about elf slavery? I don't know what they did with that in later games but it was a thing in the one game I tried to play

I think it was the first one

SmokeDetector

08:28

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body (99): Studded leather armor 5e | What makes it special? by user67585 on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, blacklisted user (164): Studded leather armor 5e | What makes it special? by razia86 on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

trogdor

oh no

I hope this isn't a sign of upcoming spam

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer (93): Studded leather armor 5e | What makes it special? by Kamrul Hasan on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

Ben

08:46

Evening all, and a merry Christmas to everyone!

trogdor

happy holidays as well

Ben

@TheDragonOfFlame thanks for remembering lol

BESW

09:39

> 🎶 SE got run over by a spambot

trogdor

:(

SmokeDetector

09:54

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in body (99): How many deference between Studded leather armor 5e and Blood Hunter 5e latest 2021? by Brown Electrical Services on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

Carcer

@trogdor part of the setting's premise is that the elves have been largely subjugated by human empires and variously either treated as slaves or second-class citizens, yeah. That doesn't go away in the later games.

trogdor

mk

I distinctly remember considering playing an elf lady,... I forgot what class, and then the automatic backstory they gave me was just,.... horrid

then I thiiiink I switched to something or other mage (might have still been elf I dunno)

and that turned out to not be the best either because then I got a firsthand look at how the Templars treat mages

this is why I don't like Dragon Age XD

Carcer

yeah, the warrior/rogue elf origin is grim

trogdor

that was probably it

I liked warrior a lot at the time I probably went in for elf warrior

could have been rogue it was long enough ago that I am just not sure

but yeah it was bad enough I don't even want to say what it was in here

it was so gross

it also,.. I mean I just have to also mention, Dragon Age Inquisition, I watched some people play a little of, and it painted the mages fighting the templars the same templars who had an oppressive institution set up specifically to control mages and punish them for not being obedient, as just as bad as the Templars they were fighting and that was enough for me to just completely condemn the entire setting

to be fair, before that point I had already written it off as a series I couldn't play but it was then that I decided I utterly hated it XD

the institutionalized elf slavery wasn't helping any for sure though

just you know,.... why isn't the story of Dragon Age the story of how elves and mages banded together to wipe out the human empires who decided they had a right to treat people that way, that would have been so much better

it would be such a good story

maybe I dunno

considering the fact that they set the setting up the way they did maybe it would have still been bad

(to be clear as well, I origionally stopped watching the first Inquisition playthrough I started because the guy stayed in the starting area picking herbs for like,.... 2 or 3 hours? I would have played that way myself but I wasn't about to watch someone else do it, then I watched another person who didn't do that and he got to the part where the mages were being painted with the same brush as the Templars and I just got mad at Bioware)

I think they were literally using some kind of Thermian Argument to say that the Templars were right to do what they did too, not a great look honestly

I didn't even know what a Thermian Argument was at the time but I certainly do now

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:13

Heh, usually people look at the setting's history (which is important for the conclusion) and consider the situation more nuanced, and I'm the odd one out who's anti-Templar.

trogdor

nope, hate the Templars they suck XD

really back at the time the first game came out, I would have normally been like "ok but in the setting this is ok" again I didn't even know what the Thermian Argument was at the time

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Argument-wise, the reason templars are a thing is pretty much the same as why Babylon 5 humans had the Psi-Corps, why states have conscription and taxation and prisons and militaries.

trogdor

but the particular thing they were doing with the Templars and the Mages reminded me too much of stuff I had researched being done to people in like "Mental Institutions"

with yeah sort of a mix of millitary conscription in there too

and I wasn't fond of either of those ideas

and I just lost any ability or inclination to justify any of it just because the setting said "this is all ok though"

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@trogdor You seem to be missing the history. It's the same kind of logic as the Sokovia Protocols.

trogdor

the what?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:17

Everyone is scared, and scared people are prone to quasi-Machiavellian thinking where they begin accepting any means so long as the ends look like an improvement.

trogdor

oooh

that

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@trogdor You know that comics story about how people wanted to either register or imprison all supers?

trogdor

well no see you missed something too, I also hate that justification as well

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Because they were too scared of the power discrepancy.

trogdor

I did a quick google I know what you are talking about now

I also hate that

that makes me mad too

really those are pretty similar things I have basically the same opinion about

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:19

@trogdor Sure, but plausibly, a setting with humans will include a very non-negligible fraction of those who have utilitarian thinking, as evidenced by, for example, some exchanges in this very chat over the last few weeks.

trogdor

boiled down they are both stories about people being born different from the "normal" and therefore it is ok to just treat them like garbage

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

The boiling down eliminates nuance that should not be eliminated in the portrayal of the opposing team.

trogdor

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica ok but that's not even what I am talking about basically, I hate the story justification that all of that is ok because (insert setting threat or justification here)

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I'm not interested at picking at the nuance when I see a similar pattern that makes me mad about the setting though

I mostly meant to point out the,... the similar pattern the stories take? that I don't like in either story/setting

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I'm anti-Templar, but I would rather not mischaracterise/strawman the position of my opponent as being simplistic.

Anyway AFK for up to two hours.

trogdor

ah well I'm not going to tell people they can't enjoy the Dragon Age games, I just mean to state I myself,.. despise the setting at this point

I haven't played any of the games all the way through or watched a full playthrough of any of them either, but I still found enough that I just couldn't handle or put up with in that time to decide they are beyond not worth my time

all that being said I won't tell anyone they aren't allowed to like them, but I also can't see literally any argument against my points against the settings in the game other than a very Thermian Argument based explaination

and honestly even if I am wrong I'm..... just not interested in that argument? if anyone feels the need to make it I'll just stop them there and say that I'm sorry if I upset them about a game series they like, they have my full blessing to continue liking it even

if you don't want to examine the setting the same way I have that is still your personal prerogative, I just can't ignore the stuff that sets me off about it is all

and by that I don't just mean examining the setting itself but also realizing you know, people wrote the setting the way it is, any element in it could have been different or even left out at the end of the day

but anyway I don't want to turn this into me shaming anyone for in any way enjoying Dragon Age at any time or even continuing to play the games or wtv, honestly this is a point of personal opinion for me based off of my own experiences that I don't expect a lot of people to share

well plus like, the whole elf slavery thing had that gross backstory that has nothing to do with my experiences per se but still made me grossed out enough to not,.. pick that race/gender/class combo (in fact I think it made me decide not to play a female character in the game at all, until I picked mage and realized maybe I just wasn't even going to play the game period)

the mage part however is definitely something that played on some very personal fears of mine

sorry I didn't mean to make this into a several page,... thing

I got started and just basically couldn't stop myself

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:49

Hopping in to reply: fair enough.

kviiri

11:11

@BESW There's an old Finnish fantasy gladiator manager game that basically states orcs and elves are really close to each others' stereotypes, but elves have better PR

(The game doesn't really do racial dynamics though, a gladiator's race determines only their weapon and magic aptitudes, base stats, and every in-game week a race is blessed causing its members to deal double damage. Also there is a 1 per race per team cap.)

The rest was "all in the manual"

trogdor

11:27

yeah,... I brought up Dragon Age origionally as like, an example of elves having less,... good PR in something

it's probably the best example I can remember of that right now

BESW

...now I want to see what Maria Dahvana Headley translated "eotenas ond ylfe ond orcneas" as.

kviiri

Should be said the gladiator game is really tongue-in-cheek

trogdor

it's still not so much bad PR for the elves as for the humans I guess

BESW

Iiiinteresting.

Headley translates

> þanon untydras ealle onwocon
eotenas ond ylfe ond orcneas
swylce gigantas þa wið gode wunnon
lange þrage he him ðæs lean forgeald

to

> From Cain had some a cruel kind,
seen by some as shadow-stalked: monsters,
elves, giants who'd ground against God,
and for that, been banished.

[rummages for Tolkien's translation]

I'm fixated on Beowulf because Tolkien claims that work's single mention of orcneas (which other translators have suggested might be more like revenants or ghosts) is where he got his "orc," and it's almost exclusively through Tolkien that our modern sense of the term derives.

Hah, Tolkien says

> ...Of him all evil broods were born, ogres and goblins and haunting shapes of hell, and the giants too, that long-time warred with God--for that he gave them their reward.

Interesting. His notes say "yeah, orcneas probably means undead and that's why I call them barrow-wights in LotR," and then completely gloss over his rather odd translation of "elf." I can see why people consider his translation a bit... partisan.

AncientSwordRage

14:35

@BESW those lines are in a Q&A here.... Somewhere, and I edited in the translation

AncientSwordRage

14:47

@BESW TIL se is a grandma

Also I had never heard of that song until yesterday when it was referenced in Game Knights

doppelgreener

goooooooooooooood boxing day afternoon everyone

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener good grief.... Time flies

It was march only a few minutes ago

@BESW rpg.stackexchange.com/a/171111/2788

books.google.co.uk/…

Bardic Wizard

17:50

I suggested RPG.SE to a friend today, we’ll see if she takes my advice on asking her questions here instead of texting me at odd hours of the night

I think she got the starter set for Christmas or something cause I woke up to a number of texts about playing d&d, of which I answered what I could and suggested she ask some of the RAW ones here since I am not great at interpreting stuff before breakfast

It’s kinda a weird but good feeling though to realize that friends think of me as something close to an expert on more than one subject especially bc I had another friend ask me to show him how to crochet cause a kit he got wasn’t making it clear. I guess I’m kinda the go to person for strange skills among my friends now, maybe

I mostly wanted to share the praise I gave the community though cause it’s pretty reflective I think of what everything here is doing:

“it’s friendly, good for new users as long as you remember a system tag, and there are some experts who know a lot more than I do about d&d. maybe it’ll even get u into more than just d&d cause it tries to remind people that d&d’s not the only rpg around, like there’s this one user who posts these cool rpg things that aren’t d&d in the chat. oh and the chat there’s rlly good at helping with problems that the site isn’t a good place to solve”

(Forgive the texting abbreviations, I tend towards them when I’m exhausted)

Hot RPG Questions

18:28

4

Q: What is the duration of the resistance effect of Swarming Dispersal for a Swarmkeeper Ranger?

In the Ranger section of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything appears a new version of the sub-class Swarmkeeper, which is quite distinct from the UA version. There is a new ability called Swarming Dispersal (TCoE, p.60). The feature does have an effect for which no duration is specified: Swarming Dis...

dnd-5e class-feature ranger

RevenantBacon

18:38

@BardicWizard You say that like you don't enjoy getting random texts about D&D during the night :p

2

AncientSwordRage

@BardicWizard that's awesome (exactly what you expect from a bard)

Bardic Wizard

19:30

@RevenantBacon not when I’ve had a week of being up past 11 pm and 3 days in a row of being up until midnight. These texts also came in at 1 am so I’m also a bit concerned about her sleep habits

@AncientSwordRage I’m at best only half a bard but yeah my skill set is varied

AncientSwordRage

19:41

@BardicWizard 1am is a fine bed time....

Bardic Wizard

@AncientSwordRage our school starts at 8:30 and I happen to know that she also gets up at 6 am every day

Meaning less than 5 hours of sleep

AncientSwordRage

20:05

@BardicWizard I've done that, it's much easier once you get used to it

TheDragonOfFlame

I just finished reading Chapter 1 of TCE and I already have a page and a half of questions about rules clarifications, as well as typo notes

Like, the Shadow-touched feat gives 1 ASI, a free once per day 2nd level spell and a free once per day first level spell

which seem literally broken

KorvinStarmast

I got the first Witcher book for Christmas; and I am now tempted to get the game, even though I don't like that kind of perspective in game play. (Son has it and loves it)

TheDragonOfFlame

mage initiate gives 2 cantrips and 1 first level spell

KorvinStarmast

@TheDragonOfFlame Yes, it's a stronger feat than some others.

RevenantBacon

Magic Initiate is a very powerful feat, especially with that new invocation feat from Tasha's Now anyone can be a mini-warlock, it's great!

AncientSwordRage

20:14

@TheDragonOfFlame I think depending on the spells MI is still more powerful

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon One of the worst decisions made was the keep that one from the UA. I gave it a major criticism during my review. Giving warlock invocations to other classes is just foul. 😒

kviiri

20:30

I got The Hobbit illustrated by Tove Jansson for Christmas

(a friend's old copy)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

20:44

@RevenantBacon Are you having a specific Invocation in mind for that Feat?

RevenantBacon

@KorvinStarmast Well, you can't take any that have prerequisites, so there's that, at least. And I don't view it as any better or worse than giving battle master maneuvers to other classes /shrug

There's actually only very few that a non-warlock could even take

There are only 11 invocations from the PHB that non-warlocks can even pick, and none at all from Xanathar's.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Fiendish Vigor, Devil's Sight, and Eldritch Sight are pretty much universally good, but Eldritch Sight is probably the most universally useful

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@RevenantBacon Changes like these make me wonder what was the purpose of strictly class-divided distribution of competences instead of just some freeform point-buy access to them.

If the divisions were adhered to faithfully, I would be taking the initial intent with fewer doubts. But any reasoning that allows cross-class access to goodies is also reasoning against class-based buckets in the first place.

RevenantBacon

21:22

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I disagree with this entirely. Allowing some traits to be shared among multiple classes is fine. I don't see any issue with Paladins and Rangers getting Fighting Styles when the Fighter already has them, or that no one should get Extra Attack, because the Barbarian already has it.

And the list of what can be shared with the feat is really restrictive. It's fine

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@RevenantBacon Allowing some traits to be more widely available by initial intent makes sense. But making a trait off-limits for most classes, or even outright class-unique, but then later giving others access to it seems puzzling.

RevenantBacon

But it's the same either way. It doesn't matter if they had access initially, or if they didn't gain access until three books in. And most of the invocations you get aren't things that were restricted to warlock alone already. There are only two invocations that let non-warlocks do something that previously was unique to warlocks, Devils Sight, and Gaze of Two Minds, which, while potentially useful, are incredibly niche in usefulness unless specifically built around

plus, one of the invocations you can pick up, you can't actually use unless you're a warlock

I don't think that it even partially intrudes onto the classes uniqueness

Meanwhile, the feat that gives combat maneuvers and a superiority die does intrude on the battlemasters uniqueness, since there are no restrictions on what maneuvers you can take, and the maneuvers are the only thing that's unique about the archetype

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

21:38

'See into magical darkness' seemed a rather uncommon goodie to me, one that, AFAIR, the base PHB was reluctant to give out to most characters, and if it did, often placed it at high levels and/or short ranges (like the rogue's blindsight).

RevenantBacon

"See into magical darkness" is also very rarely relevant

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

So to me, it seems like a shift in the authors' stance on just how accessible the effect of being able to see through complete (including magical) darkness should be to the 'general public'.

RevenantBacon

Most darkness isn't magical, and the number of enemies that can create magical darkness is pretty low

and the number of enemies that can create magical darkness and are also not inhibited it by it is even lower

The extra 60' of darkvision is nice, but hardly game-breaking

And without magical darkness, that's all it is for most characters. An extra 60' of darkvision. Sure, humans and halflings get more benefit out of it than elves or dwarves

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Oh, I apologise if the comments came off as implying gamebreaking. But it did seem like a rare goodie to have, to the point that I've seen Devil's Sight + Darkness being described as warlock-iconic in some discussions.

RevenantBacon

Well, sure, but Darkness is a level 2 spell that requires concentration. Most warlocks don't even bother picking it up. I would hardly call the combo iconic.

Most warlocks will want to save their concentration for Hex

TheDragonOfFlame

22:02

@RevenantBacon seems commonly relevant to me

RevenantBacon

@TheDragonOfFlame On average, how many encounters would you say you have per session where there's an enemy that uses magical darkness, and that that use of magical darkness significantly impeded your ability to contribute to the encounter?

AncientSwordRage

22:21

@RevenantBacon maybe not but it's infamous

TheDragonOfFlame

23:04

@RevenantBacon probably once per 3 or 4 sessions, more if we are fighting spellcasters, and in dungeon delves almost once per session

its a common thing in dungeons

RevenantBacon

You're coming across magical darkness in every dungeon? Holy cow, that's way more than normal! In the last campaign I was in, the only time we had any magical darkness that was created by someone other than a party member (mostly me) was when we fell in this one magical pit that was just full of the stuff. This campaign went from level one to 12. We had magical darkness once.

GcL

@RevenantBacon I made very liberal use of magical darkness because one of the players cleverly burned a 3rd level spell slot to cast continual flame.

I figured, might as well find some interesting stuff for that to solve.

RevenantBacon

Ah, so you went out of your way for it, got it.

BESW

23:20

When I was designing encounters in 3.5 (obviously it wasn't an issue in 4e), I would often run into situations where I had to bend around to avoid using magical darkness because it was an obvious and easily available strategy for the monsters (many creatures come with it as a Sp or Su out of the box) but was also going to make things less fun.

GcL

Yeah. Also kept an eye out for canned adventures that included it.

BESW

It's another of those "magic is always better" scenarios.

(As a player, I made a 3e character whose entire gimmick was exploiting magical darkness, starting with carrying slingstones with darkness cast on them.)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Also, I thought that while not stated outright, the iconicity of Darkness + Devil's Sight is amplified by the fact that with such a spell, the warlock can enjoy Advantage on attacks, grant Disadvantage to those attacking it, and become invalid as a target for certain spells outright due to breaking line of sight. (This of course warrants keeping a distance from allies.)

(In the one combat so far that I tried on a 5e D&D warlock, I didn't have Darkness and did regret it, and had Hex but didn't get to benefit from it. I'm waiting for more experience before making any final verdicts of course!)

BESW

In my experience darkvision's inability to pierce magical darkness made it almost entirely useless unless you're splitting the party, because so long as one character doesn't have darkvision, the party's got a light source.

Magical darkness overriding darkvision means the most obvious opportunity for really shining by having the feature be helpful to the group... you can't.

So I just generally didn't use darkness, because it was another "magic user preparation duel" scenario.

trogdor

yeah

I really dislike that aspect of 3.5

casters were extremely powerful but you also had to be like, very meticulous about what spells you picked to be useful because the wrong spell meant you basically wasted a slot

it was kinda a bummer really

it made casters less fun for me but at the same time non-casters weren't nearly as powerful

BESW

23:34

"I have cool features!"
"I have a spell, so your features are invalid."
"I have a better spell, so your spell is invalid."

trogdor

yeah

I liked that 4e didn't have basically any "I just invalidated the cool things you can do" stuff in it

AncientSwordRage

"Ah but I am also not [casting] left handed"

BESW

May 11 '16 at 6:47, by doppelgreener

My favourite version of a wizard duel is the type where both walk into a coffee shop, sit down at a table together, go through their spells, describe what they'd do, until one decides fairly the other would best them, then they shake hands and leave. (And maybe arrange a new coffee shop meeting to discuss that kind of spell they were both particularly interested in during their duel.)

AncientSwordRage

@trogdor that is neat

BESW

Yeah, I'm a fan of no-counterspell game design.

AncientSwordRage

23:41

@BESW I was just thinking.... Didn't 4e have counterspell?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@trogdor Some day I hope to encounter an RPG that has deep, easy-to-learn-hard-to-master counterplay, but one which isn't concentrated predominately in the pre-encounter (chargen, prep &c.) phases. Until then, I play RPGs more for the roleplaying and the coming up with interesting ideas for more freeform hurdles, and baduk/go/weiqi for the deep mid-battle counterplay.

BESW

Pretty sure not. It has interrupts, which are powers that happen before the effect which triggered them and might situationally change circumstances so that the triggered effect is no longer possible (like pushing an attacker away so their melee attack is no longer in rage of their target).

But the ability of an interrupt to negate an action like that is very situational, and not the primary purpose of the interrupt--it's just a happy coincidence that happens sometimes.

(I'm rather fond of defender (ie tank) powers which lets you swap places with someone just before they get hit, especially if you've got something which punishes targets for hitting you.)

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that's fun

BESW

Yeah, it's digging into that "tactical choices" focus that 4e did so well. A counterspell doesn't chain into interesting tactics, it stops a tactical chain.

AncientSwordRage

Counterspells are quite love/hate in Magic: The Gathering

BESW

23:56

I became rather notorious for designing decks which never said "No you can't do that," but were still effective at saying "The thing you did is not of concern to me."

trogdor

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I don't think I know of anything that combines those two things

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