TRPG General Chat

RevenantBacon

20:12

Is PBTA some variant of the Apocalypse system?

NautArch

Powered by the Apocalypse

RevenantBacon

So yes then, LMAO

I read the question, and it seems like they're just trying to do an sort-of but not-quite-really inverted version of PBTA, with extra complexities like "rolling a 1 and a 6 has a special meaning". And then doesn't explain what that special meaning is.

Mark Wells

20:27

@RevenantBacon They added a bunch of detail and now it seems they're trying to do some Genesys-like oracular dice thing. I still don't get why "if you roll at least 4 under the target number, it's a super-success" doesn't work, though. Hasn't GURPS done that since forever?

RevenantBacon

I dunno, I've only ever done one game with the GURPS system, I don't remember how it works

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

3d6 roll-under. 3-5 is critical success (depending on effective skill); 18, and usually 17, and sometimes other values are critical failures.

Margin of success/failure is the difference between effective skill (i.e. after all modifiers) and the number rolled.

MoS/MoF is used for certain things, but not everything.

Mark Wells

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I thought critical success/failure depended directly on the margin, but I could be mistaken, it's been a while

TheDragonOfFlame

@MarkWells not in GURPS 4e

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Critical success is 3 or 4 on the sum of dice normally, and so is 5 if your effective skill is 15+, plus 6 if it is 16+.

TheDragonOfFlame

20:31

the margin effects it, but within limits

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yep

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

IIRC it was same in 3e.

TheDragonOfFlame

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Ok. Only ever played 4e

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Margin is used for 'how good is your success/failure' in some circumstances, but not in all of them.

RevenantBacon

Ahhh, it's all coming back to me now

So I guess this really brings up the question of why are they making this new game system? Are they publishing it as a new thing, or do they just want to use it in their home game?

Because I feel like PBTA and GURPS both already do the things you need an RPG system to do

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Either way, learning the mathematical implications and the various ways to implement roll-under is good.

Mark Wells

20:36

@RevenantBacon Some people just like tinkering with systems.

Hot RPG Questions

21:03

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Q: How to order Ranger's beast to attack with TCoE?

In the PHB there is the Ranger subclass "Beast Master" which gives the opportunity to have a beast companion, which obey all orders from the Ranger. The beast attacks only if the ranger gives that command in his/her action. But in TCoE there is a phrase for the beast, which says: "It can move an...

kviiri

21:31

I find myself often questioning the need to create new randomization schemes as well, not because there's anything particularly wrong with the practice per se but I think it feels like overshadowing much more significant issues in game design when people focus so much on the exact method of randomization. Especially when the focus of the chosen randomization scheme seems to be being different rather than having some sort of thematic or theoretic function or novelty.

At the same time, I think it's good that people do it... I just feel people should feel less need to differentiate their games by exact models of randomization and go for more tangible differences?

RedRiderX

Has anyone heard any details about the D&D movie? I still don't know what that movie would even be.

Would it be a story about someone who discovers d&d? Would it just be a generic European Fantasyland story?

Would it go for something high concept like the d&d animated TV show?

AncientSwordRage

@RedRiderX no details

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@kviiri I agree that just 'to be different' is a bad reason for reinventing a randomisation scheme unless it is a purely cosmetic change. But choice of randomisation scheme (complete with the range of expected base and modified competence level) is a big deal because it produces a different feel in the game. A swingy randomisation scheme like in FATE Core or Eclipse Phase or D&D5e is different than a gaussian one like GURPS, and produces different outcomes once the PCs hit the adventure.

kviiri

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yes, the choice of a randomization scheme is important, I'm not denying that

But I think a major point, that you also touch upon, is the feel of the game as the end of that decision.

Because I've seen far more bikeshedding about randomization schemes than I've seen about anything else that relates to the feel

KorvinStarmast

21:46

@Akixkisu tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd

RevenantBacon

@RedRiderX Are you talking about the one with JEREMY IRONS?

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov with good reason. But I have found that mild edits rarely get a response.

@TheDragonOfFlame I liked your answer (it was the first one, I think) and up voted it. I had intended to post one with a pure lore bard, but RL happened, and then someone posted a better one with a Lore Bard and Rogue combo, so I didn't post anything.

kviiri

@RedRiderX The earlier film iterations of DnD are, to my understanding, relatively normal high-fantasy flicks without much talent behind them. I'd guess they have camp/cult fandoms but probably not significantly overlapping with those of the game itself. Meanwhile, the game side of the franchise has been massively boosted in popularity over the past decade. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something more concretely tying in with the game to garner attention from the fandom.

(...and to distance itself from the earlier, non-acclaimed titles)

For some reason I'm predicting a 1990's -esque "the game is real and takes us to a magic world that needs saving" plot.

Bardic Wizard

Wait, theres going to be a d&d film?

RevenantBacon

@BardicWizard Apparently with Chris Pine

KorvinStarmast

21:59

@kviiri Guardians of the Flame redux, I guess ... 👀

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon I might watch it then. He did a good Captain Kirk even if Shatner did better (in my opinion)

TheDragonOfFlame

Vin Deisel made a few

D&D movies that is

MikeQ

There's been a few handfuls of D&D (and D&D-inspired) feature films and they have all flopped as far as I recall

KorvinStarmast

22:17

@MikeQ If you can cast Jeremy Irons and create a flop, that's some kinda (not so hot) talent right there. 😮

Hot RPG Questions

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Q: What is the comparative value of armor proficiencies?

Is medium or heavy armor proficiency as racial feature more powerful (in general) than light armor, or is it just favoring different kinds of builds? The intent is that I want to playtest some racial features in a restricted setup (the hobgoblin race which already has light armor proficiency) fir...

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KorvinStarmast

@TheDragonOfFlame One of these days, I need for my wife to go out of town for a day or two so that I can binge watch Vin Diesel movies ...

MikeQ

@KorvinStarmast I haven't watched all of them, but they all look pretty similar. Generic swords & sorcery fantasy, recycled plot, lazy writing, etc. The kinds of stories that are probably enough to get a D&D campaign going but not enough to engage a non-participating audience. For a D&D movie to succeed in the 2020s they'd likely need to change up the formula.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Riddick has a special place in my heart

RevenantBacon

22:34

@BardicWizard have you ever seen the D&D movie from the early 2000's? And please don't tell me that it's a movie that was made before you were born, I'm only 28, I can't start feeling old yet.

Bardic Wizard

@RevenantBacon what year exactly? I’ve never seen it (we’re not really a movie family) but it actually might not be from before I was born depending on the year

MikeQ

There were "Dungeons & Dragons" live action films in 2000, 2005, 2011. Also various animated films.

Bardic Wizard

Think of it this way: I’m just really young, nobody here is really old

MikeQ

None are as ~~absurdly campy~~ good as the D&D animated series from the 80s.

trogdor

lol

I never watched literally any of the D&D show movie wtv things

Bardic Wizard

22:47

@MikeQ my dad just came into the room, looked over my shoulder and said “oh hey, I remember that show from when I was a teen”

MikeQ

@trogdor Probably for the best. None of the "serious" D&D tv/film adaptations have been as good as any of the D&D tv/film parodies.

trogdor

I have not heard especially good things

@BardicWizard lol

I hadn't even heard about a D&D movie or anything until I was an adult I think

kviiri

I know pretty much one thing only of the DnD animated series and it's that the Paladin is a whiner and always wrong.

(In other words, he's the designated complainer and by default wrong for disagreeing with his peers instead of following the group consensus)

TheDragonOfFlame

-1

Q: What build would benefit most from the Durable feat?

The Durable feat includes the following benefit: When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2) Which hit die / Constitution modifier combination would be effected most often when rol...

dnd-5e feats optimization hit-dice

Can this be reopened?

Akixkisu

23:08

@TheDragonOfFlame I do not undersand what this means "Which hit die / Constitution modifier combination would be effected most often when rolling hit dice?"

GcL

@TheDragonOfFlame I don't understand what that question is asking.

Akixkisu

It might be one of those times where it is evident that English is my third language, but I can't parse the meaning at all.

GcL

You're asking or a hit die (d6,8,10,12) and constitution bonus (+1 to +7 ) combination, but I don't understand how to evaluate the set.

Powerdork

The class that would most often benefit is the class that has the highest odds of a low result on Hit Dice. (A class with a small Hit Die.) The Constitution modifier that would make Durable apply the most is a Constitution modifier that's more than half the size of that die (for a d6, +4, so you are guaranteed to regain 8 hit points if you roll 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6).

GcL

Is that asking for the largest average difference between hit dice recovery rolls with and without the durable feat?

If that's the case, is the comparison asking for best increase by absolute value of the benefit or as a ratio?

e.g. a 2 hp difference is a 100% improvement in one case, and in another case the 4 hp difference is a 50% improvement. Which is better depends on the evaluation criteria.

Akixkisu

23:23

@TheDragonOfFlame ^

As the question currently stands, my brain is inclined to answer: they are all affected exactly once, multiple sources of the durable feat don't stack. Or level 20 gives you the most sources of hit die that can be affected. But it seems much more likely that you are interested in something like GcL proposes.

smbailey

The answer I was preparing was going to be along the lines of: There is a small gain at negative CON modifiers due to the "minimum 2" clause, but the most pronounced change happens at higher CON modifiers (6+), especially for lower hit dice. Accompanied by this chart:

@TheDragonOfFlame Is that the kind of information you are looking for?

Still not sure if you're looking for percentage gain or just highest number of HP achievable.

Powerdork

Modifiers above +5 simply don't, in 5e, if I remember right.

smbailey

With magic items they are possible

Up to +10

Powerdork

Magic items you've seen given out in a game, right?

smbailey

Theorycrafting doesn't have to be realistic in a game setting

But a Barb 20 can get up to +7 STR and CON without any magic items also

Hot RPG Questions

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11

Q: Is there a reason not to take the optional class features from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything?

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Mark Wells

@kviiri Whenever I see some weird new method of rolling dice, I want to ask why this isn't just percentile with a table of outcomes. Sometimes there's a good reason (like dice pool methods having asymptotic chances of failure, or exploding dice having unlimited tails), but why this method in this game?

doppelgreener

@TheDragonOfFlame i'm not sure what this is asking either. is there some reason the answer isn't "the biggest"? it sounds like you expect there to be a specific point at which you should have exactly N dice and exactly M constitution modifier so as to get the maximum possible health granted by this feature alone. (but then the question has to be raised about whether you're overall recovering enough health at all, if this is doing so much heavy lifting for you.)

GcL

@Powerdork You can get up to 30 in raw stats, That might be a +8.

Mark Wells

(looking at you, Genesys)

doppelgreener

it would help to explain your thoughts on this in the question itself. If you're not sure how to express that, consider completing the following prompt sentence: "I think this wouldn't actually benefit me the most at the biggest possible numbers for hit dice and constitution score, because..."

GcL

23:42

@kviiri Tactile feel? Satisfaction? I recall enjoying rolling the d20 more than other dice. I find d10's in the AM5 system pretty satisfying to roll, because they're not being used as percent. I find rolling percent dice pretty unsatisfying. I find rolling scads of dice at once tedious, but I know others that enjoy it.

@ThomasMarkov what's the difference between homebrew and house-rules?

kviiri

@GcL I don't think that's it. (I mean, I do think that's something professional game designers do think of, but it doesn't explain the quest for novelty)

Thomas Markov

> House rules are small fan created additions and replacements to core rules in a rules set and this tag should be used when there are locally-created rules at the core of the question. In most cases, they are not officially sanctioned by the designer, in contrast to optional rules. For creation of substantial new content or rules subsystems, use the [homebrew] tag instead.

From the house rules rag description.

BESW

@kviiri Difference for its own sake that's both visible and tactile rather than requiring a rules explanation, is a good branding technique.

RevenantBacon

@BardicWizard Aahhhhhhh I was afraid you'd say that lol. I'm now officially Old (tm)

BESW

It may not be great at the table but it's a solid way to get people to notice you on the shelf long enough to find out whether or not your gameplay is actually something they'd like.

kviiri

23:50

@BESW Yeah, but I think that's a bit of a problem. I don't really want people designing their first RPG to think the most important thing to get right is that their way of rolling the dice has to be unique.

Mark Wells

@BESW which is to say, it is faerie magic and is not to be trusted

BESW

@kviiri Counterpoint: the d20 boom.

@BardicWizard I, for one, am pleased as punch to have people of vastly different ages in the chat. I'm a bit creepified by people/groups who only feel comfortable with their own demographic.

3

Powerdork

Then I should become a hermit.

BESW

The Global Fantasy Book Club hosted by Brown Geeks. A virtual community that reads and discusses fantasy books inspired by cultures and mythologies from around the world. We read one book a month, and discuss our books through Discord. If you’ve ever wanted to diversify your fantasy experience, exploring imaginative worlds that move beyond elves and blond farm boys, join us!

GcL

I'm trying to think if I know anyone that only prefers their own demographic. I know many people that tend to hang out with their own age demographic frequently. I wonder if that has to do with the generally age bounded view of cultural references and their use in memes and jokes. E.g. Pivot! Pivot!

Bardic Wizard

23:58

@GcL I know some people like that, since several of my classmates avoid upperclasspeople like the plague and look down upon the frosh rather than hang out with anyone outside their own grade

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