TRPG General Chat

Thomas Markov

03:55

-1

Q: Does Favored by the Gods work with counterspell rolls?

5e. Title, just wondering if it works as I was trying to counterspell power word kill and needed the extra rolls.

sorcerer

Need some close votes.

Medix2

04:09

I do want to point something out @ThomasMarkov (one sec)

The most upvoted answer to this question

Which... I've just been kinda silently knowing that that flipped and hoping nobody would notice...

Well, we've got a Meta XD

Thomas Markov

A lovely one at that.

Medix2

There's some complicated-ness in there... especially since the "new-ness" is hard to measure... (one sec)

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 I thought your answer to the repelling blast question was very well done.

Medix2

There is "What to do when an edit guesses the system being used rather than waiting for the querent to clarify?" which was revisited twice, most recently this year. There is also: "What to do when an answer guesses the system of a question rather than waiting for the querent to clarify?" which is very similar, but has not been revisited as recently.

And then there is: "Is '5e' a clear enough statement of game system by a question asker?" which until recently did agree with the other posts. Only recently did the vote totals end up switching around; as such, at least to me, it is still unclear as to whether the actual practice and implementation of any sort of protocol regarding questions using "5e" has changed.

@user-024673 Please know they did not say that

> [...] continued disregard for site policies can get you temporarily banned [...]

But further discussion should be on Meta, not here

@user-024673 They don't even have the power to ban you, btw

@ThomasMarkov Thank you

Thomas Markov

They couldn’t have meant that since they are unable to ban you.

Again, I suggest you review the code of conduct.

Name calling isn’t going to get you anywhere.

The Oracle

04:27

-1

Q: 5e question that doesn't have the special tag

So I saw this question today: Does Favored by the Gods work with counterspell rolls? In the question it says "5e", talks about "Favored by the Gods", "Counterspell", and "Power Word Kill". If I asked anyone what game this is, they'd look at me funny and reply "5e, duh". If I pushed them and said "...

discussion

Thomas Markov

Not particularly, no.

Medix2

If you want to research and read previous discussion of adding system tags; here's a list I made

We have quite a few answers from various people saying that the obvious-ness doesn't matter and giving numerous reasons not to add in a system tag, no matter how obvious it is. I'm not saying I agree with the current practice; but there are stated reasons

One of the most recent, and likely most helpful/informative discussion would be this: "Re-revisiting the “don't guess the system” policy" which I linked to earlier; I highly recommend reading it

@user-024673 And that's the entire reasons we have Metas and go by voting totals; you don't just need a reason, you needs reasons that people actively click "yes, I agree"

This kinda is a "stepped on an invisible landmine" situation; maybe some good will come of it all

@ThomasMarkov You ever write up and post a whole answer and then realize that some random sentence in the middle was distilled alphabet soup, and then you've gotta rush to fix it?

Hot RPG Questions

06:01

3

Q: Is a lightfoot halfling obscured for the purposes of hiding while in the space of another creature?

Can a lightfoot halfling hide while in the space of some creature (like a Medium-sized or larger ally), and be hidden from an adjacent creature? The halfling is not trying to hide from the creature with which it is sharing a space.

dnd-5e racial-traits stealth halfling

Novak

Hey, Linksassin, I think I've answered my question by looking through the recent chat logs here.....

linksassin

@Novak Yeah I was just coming here to explain to you and found them myself. Thanks for trying to help.

Novak

Not the first time I've tripped on edited comments. I'm so used to being able to see Q/A revision histories, I forget that comments are... let's say "highly ephemeral"

Bardic Wizard

@Medix2 ugh, you ever do that on homework and not realize till after it’s turned in?

linksassin

@Novak Particularly in cases like this. When I became a mod I discovered a whole host of discussion buried in deleted comments that I didn't know existed.

Novak

06:11

Yeah, I bet.

Medix2

@BardicWizard One of my professors once wrote "I have absolutely no idea what you did in the middle, but the start and end were correct; have the points"

Novak

@Medix2 I would like to have had more of your profs-- I was rarely if ever allowed to get away with that. Probably built character, but very unpleasant at the time.

linksassin

06:27

@Medix2 I knew the totals were getting close but I hadn't realised they had so dramatically flipped. I'll discuss with the other mods as clearly we need to address this.

Medix2

@linksassin I swear I once asked a question about "What is the go-to answer to a Meta question for providing guidance: The highest-scoring one? The accepted one? Something else?" but apparently I never did

linksassin

@Medix2 Yeah that's a whole mess. I'm right now trying to think about ways to prevent this from happening again.

Perhaps an edit to the question when the community reaches a consensus with a summary of the votes at that time?

Medix2

@linksassin There is what was done with the re-revisit (just an explicit statement in the question about the finalized answer)

Welp, I got sniped XD

linksassin

Then you go by the answer the edit tells you to follow and if vote totals change we know it might need to be addressed.

@Medix2 I'm thinking we might need to try to do that on more important metas going forward

Novak

06:46

Can the Hot RPG Questions, or something like it, be adapted to send notices when vote tallies change?

V2Blast

@Novak I'm just guessing, but I doubt it

that said, I know little about what's possible with bots :P

Novak

It would still only help users who frequent the chat room often (i.e., not me) but it might be somewhat useful. I don't know what is possible with stack bots, either.

V2Blast

07:49

@ThomasMarkov I've (sort of) made that edit now. I think it reads a bit more clearly now. (...Technically, the tweet's still presented before the rules; it was easier than rewriting the phrasing of the whole answer to have the rules first.)

kviiri

08:52

@user-024673 Please refrain from referring to opinions of other users as "mob rule", "bs" or similar derogatory terms, we don't do that here.

2

You are free to disagree with the current way of doing things all you like, but you need to remember that the viewpoints and stances you are criticizing are made by and supported by normal site users. Conduct your criticism in a way that does not insult them.

kviiri

09:38

@user-024673 Like I said, you are free to disagree. But we do not insult other users here.

(Also, no, I am not upset, I'm just trying to help you communicate better)

AncientSwordRage

11:08

How's everyone doing this morning

kviiri

11:25

working hard

AncientSwordRage

sounds like a plan

Thomas Markov

At the gym

AncientSwordRage

cool, I was planning on joining a gym at one point

in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, 2 mins ago, by SQB

Tip: Humble Bundle has a bundle of e-books featuring mostly Timotht Zahn, William Shatner, and Piers Anthony.

thought this might interest people here too

BESW

11:46

Aaaaaah

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that's a lot of repeated letter 'A's, everything ok?

BESW

Shatner's his own barrel of sour pickles, but WHY would the Humble Bundle give Anthony the time of day, much less a place in one of their offers?

AncientSwordRage

I've no idea who Anthony is

BESW

in The Reading Room, Jan 18 '17 at 23:59, by BESW

@user159517 Anthony's like an everlasting font of creepy and/or spiteful.

in The Reading Room, Jan 18 '17 at 23:53, by BESW

@Catija Anthony's works aren't exactly toeing the line. (link is text, but seriously not safe)

Content warning for... sexualization of both fictional and actual underage people, to put it mildly.

They've got Jane Yolen in the bundle! Talk her up!

...and include more of her books, that's a pitiful selection of her bogglingly large body of work.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I'm guessing the Wiki and Amazon page aren't being very forthcoming with those issues

@BESW I read a bit then I noped out

BESW

11:53

Yuuuuuup

My summary of But What Of Earth? is

in The Reading Room, Jan 20 '17 at 11:30, by BESW

(Anthony uses his A-list authorial clout to make good on a ten-year-old grudge against an editor who did a poor job on one of Anthony's already awful early novels.)

AncientSwordRage

ugh

BESW

Just. Anthony is mediocre and petty on the best of days, and then you start to notice... all the other things... that he keeps playing as jokes... for way too long...

It baffles me how he ever rose to prominence, much less managed to be called a "Star of Sci-fi & Fantasy" in the Year 2020. He's a walking stranger danger alert.

Not cool, Bundle. Not cool.

But really, why are THESE your stars of sci-fi and fantasy anyway? More like 1980s Novels I Remember From The Discount Shelf In The Used Bookstore.

I know you've heard of Ursula K. Le Guin, Bundle. You compared Jane Yolen to her.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW me?

oh wait my name isn't Bundle

BESW

OR IS IT.

AncientSwordRage

my brain skipped that bit

:o

::head-splodey-boom::

BESW

12:02

Okay, it's a teamup with Open Road Media. They probably don't have the license for Le Guin. [pops open their web page]

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. front page!

Why isn't SHE in your bundle?

You've got Parable of the Sower in your catalogue and you don't put it in your "stars of scifi" bundle?!

...they've got James Tiptree, too. [face/desk]

You didn't think Birth of a Salesman might be a solid option, huh.

Harlan Ellison gets to go on the list, though. A man that even conservative scifi communities admit was "controversial."

Welp, that was my boggle of the day.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I did pin it in the scifi chat....now it's unpinned and un starred

BESW

Most of the bundle's choices are just confusing and arguably inept, but Anthony... yeah, that's a hard nope, a deep disappointment, and a lot of skepticism of Bundles going forward.

AncientSwordRage

sadly I think that it's super easy for some to just go "Oh, white male author, probably fine", and thing they don't need to dig deep and look even a little under

BESW

(BTW, when conservative old-school scifi communities say a beloved author is "controversial," they mean he's a sex pest and/or eugenicist.)

AncientSwordRage

sigh

BESW

12:16

And it's not like Shatner's without his... controversies....

AncientSwordRage

that goes without saying

BESW

And I'm all for "enjoy flawed things" and such, but Anthony's "flaws" are the things. Even his good jokes are outsourced.

SQB

Hey, @BESW, how are you doing!

Haven't seen you in a long time.

BESW

[wave] Ruining things, apparently!

SQB

Ha! Nah, Piers ruined himself.

kviiri

12:29

Howdy

BESW

I'm doing okay! Started writing some small TRPG things this year.

What's new with you?

SQB

Going by what Wikipedia has on Harlan Ellison, he seems to have been an unpleasant person, but not a sexist or a misogynist.

And he was anti-Vietnam War, so I can imagine conservative writers having a problem with him.

BESW

@SQB Even Wikipedia had to admit the 2006 Hugo Awards ceremony happened.

SQB

Oh darn, I overlooked that.

Yeah, that's bad.

BESW

My favorite is the bit where he complained about not getting his apology received the way he wanted.

(If you check out the Talk page for the wiki article you'll find more stuff which has been taken out of the article in its current state... and a lot of people trying to write apologetics for him.)

SQB

13:23

Oh, I'll check.

NautArch

13:48

@Someone_Evil We're planning another revisit of the game tagging question on meta?

say it ain't so!

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Tags need double jeopardy protection!

Someone_Evil

We have to, I'm afraid. This is specifically the 5e specific subclause thingy. Praxis and apparent meta are at odds, which isn't functional

NautArch

Ugh. It seems like we keep beating this drum with the same results. And the folks who don't like the situation will just remain vocal.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Can we at least have fixed term limits for the relitigation? Needing to be ready to vote whenever the topic is so much as mentioned seems wrong. (And I'm not sure what fraction of my statement is satirical at this point.)

NautArch

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica that's actually not a bad idea.

Someone_Evil

13:59

Well, in this case the problem is the votes on a meta have shifted over time so that it no longer represents the praxis/policy it is used as (because of the consensus it reached at the time). The problem is that one side would be much more motivated to vote whenever it got cited on main, so it's hard to trust it as consensus (meaning it doesn't work as a policy-meta)

I'm not sure we need a strict term limit. If a revisit happens without sufficient grounds (such as some event or reasonable time/shifts), downvote it (and voice that concern)

NautArch

@Someone_Evil It still seems fairly clear what the policy we want is. It's just that folks don't like it and always throw up flags when the odd case comes uup.

Also seems like carving out exceptions will be problematic, or not.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Someone_Evil How does one evaluate whether the grounds are sufficient? By a vote? By a top-down decree of an elected ~~parliamentary~~ moderator?

NautArch

@Someone_Evil "sufficient grounds" seem way too easily created. It's just a question like yesterday's, right?

Someone_Evil

@NautArch To me it's been most clear that the community is really split on the issue. And in this case it's a meta not being representative of the policy/praxis it is cited for. That needs to be fixed one way or the other. Either by getting a representative meta, or changing praxis/policy

BESW

"Sufficient Grounds" would be a good name for a coffee shop.

6

Thomas Markov

14:09

Determining what is sufficient grounds is only going to create conflict imo.

NautArch

@Someone_Evil I agree. But the discussion really has already been had several times and I don't see it really changing. There are strong views on both sides. Someone somewhere is going to need to make the policy statement and one group will be unhappy.

Bardic Wizard

@BESW ooh, I love Jane Yolen! She wrote one of the books in my “I can’t deal with the world” pile (The Emerald Circus)

Someone_Evil

@NautArch Probably not? For the revisit I'm not citing the recent main site question, but what happened to the old meta. I can't imagine the revisit of "Another question got closed because of X policy. Should we change the policy this time?" be recieved very well

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Agreed - but I thought that was what you were saying should be done.

Thomas Markov

Right now the praxis is a mostly objective exercise.

Someone_Evil

14:10

@NautArch So we should just carry on following a meta differently to what it is (currently) saying?

NautArch

@Someone_Evil I think we need to make a policy. We either guess or we don't guess. No exceptions.

2

Thomas Markov

@NautArch Yep.

NautArch

Otherwise we'll be back at this every time a question comes up. And the same two sides will argue.

rinse. repeat.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@NautArch Haven't we made it several times already though?

BESW

If it's an on/off toggle, then it's on because to try and keep it off in all cases, no exceptions, would be an unsustainable expenditure of time and energy and would cause massive amounts of ill will.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

14:12

Is grounding water once more in a bowl with a pestle going to make it better?

BESW

And with that, goodnight.

NautArch

@BESW laila tov!

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yes, and every time a question comes up where someone feels strongly they can guess correctly we revisit.

Someone_Evil

@NautArch Cool. The current meta on "5e" currently carves out an exception. The praxis we have is that it isn't one. I'd be happy to continue current praxis, but then we need to correct the meta. The alternative to a revisit is to decide what our meta process is after the fact (and effectivly have the diamond mods dictate it), and I don't think anyone wants that

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Was the most current meta 'accepted' as policy? I just thought it was a discussion?

When do meta questions turn from discussion to decision?

Thomas Markov

But if we permit "sufficient grounds" editing, we're just asking for the mods to have to start making these decisions anyway. It gives equal power to persons of equal authority who will legitimately disagree, and theyre going to push-pull till a diamond rules on it.

So with the community divided as it is, the mods are going to have to make the decision either way, in general, or in particular. Pick your poison.

Someone_Evil

14:21

@NautArch It certainly gets cited as the basis for praxis. When it said "no" it didn't really matter what it was, but now it sorta does. And we can revisit normal discussions too (say about workshopping threads)

The most saddening part of the current discussion, personally, is that we're still getting questions without a system statement despite the ask page now reminding askers to state it

6

Thomas Markov

I just noticed that our recent meta isnt actually a question.

Its just a rant.

Even with the extensive scrubbing.

I'm sure its too much work for the stack devs, but it sure would be nice if the ask page would throw a flag if you submitted a question without a system tag, something like, "You havent added a system tag, are you sure you dont need one?"

NautArch

14:36

@ThomasMarkov the debate has devolved to rants from both sides.

Thomas Markov

Which debate?

NautArch

To guess the tag or not

Thomas Markov

Right, Im talking about the particular meta question that had to be heavily scrubbed. It's just a rant.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov I asked that when we got the new ask pages. The response implies it'll be really hard to get the feature req through

RevenantBacon

I'm 100% certain that if we actually put a little effort in, we could come up with a policy that compromises between "no guessing the system, ever" and "feel free to guess whenever you want". And with the frequency that it comes up, it definitely needs to be changed

NautArch

14:43

We're talking about edge cases. Trying to come up with a policy that covers all edge cases is impossible.

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon And supposing we do, do we revisit it every time someone doesnt like it?

RevenantBacon

Yup

You can't have one rule, and determine that it will be good forever.

That's incredibly draconian

Someone_Evil

There's a middle ground between revisit every time and never. Fortunately that's (mostly) where we are at the moment

RevenantBacon

None of you are perfect, and you can't make a rule that's perfect.

Medix2

@Someone_Evil Or having Mods accept the older answer and instituting more frequent use of policy locking

Thomas Markov

14:52

Depends on your criteria for perfection. If your criteria for perfection is objectivity, then "OP must add system tag" is a perfect rule.

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 Yeah, we should have probably made some note of the discussion/conclusion being "closed" (we have done that on other policy metas). But it's awkward to know when to do that, and doubly so to retroactively do it

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov People have argued against that as not all questions need a system tag... Which apparently means even asking/recommending one is bad

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 Its neither here nor there since SE isnt gonna do that for us.

Medix2

@Someone_Evil I remember KRyan had that moment of "People will whittle down the resolve of those in favor of the current policy through constant attempts at changing it" or something similar. Meanwhile... The camps do seem legitimates quite split

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, just saw that

Though that was also the first time I'd heard "Questions where the user hasn’t given us enough information to proceed, and who never bother to come back to clarify, are by definition some of the worst content"

NautArch

@Medix2 No, I think it's fairly clear when something is system agnostic vs not.

There may be times where someone thinks it might be helpful, but that's a comment.

Medix2

15:04

Agreed, though as Someone evil pointed out; it doesn't really matter as we very likely won't get the feature

At the end of the day, numerous people have been on one side from the beginning; numerous people have switched sides from where they started... At least everybody agrees that system-tag-requiring questions need system tags

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 I don't care either way. I just want a clear policy that can actually be put into practice.

NautArch

Exactly, there's likely been a small change if not a net zero movement. The sides will always be split and the side on the outside of the policy will always post a question challenging them at some point.

Either we continue to deal with edge cases and debates (which isn't great either for new users to deal with), or we have a very simple requirement.

Medix2

@NautArch Edge cases and debates will happen no matter what

Like, even under current policy they still have

Not that they went particularly well...

SQB

@BESW How about Stomping Grounds as a name for a boxing-themed coffee shop?

Someone_Evil

Part of the problem there is that it's the same debates happening over and over, and that it is tiring the participants of it, which isn't healthy

3

Medix2

15:16

And then what to do with new questions on it is also not agreed upon... I mean, I guess it makes sense that those against the policy want to bring up arguments against it and those for the policy want to not have to constantly argue back... Though the duplicate closure of the recent questions was undone...

Thomas Markov

I've an idea. Let's smokescreen this whole issue by bringing back steel wind strike discussions.

Medix2

Anything but spell targeting

Thomas Markov

I still think creatures affected by AoE spells are "targets" of the spell.

Medix2

I agree, though plenty don't, and the various weirdly worded monster features don't particularly help XD

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov It depends I think?

cloudkill makes a magical cloud, but then things like 'mass suggestion' are more obviously just multi-targetting

NautArch

15:34

@Medix2 People can always try and bring it up again, but if the policy is simply "we must wait for querent to state", then the only edge cases are when it's a system agnostic question.

Medix2

@NautArch But the policy is that you can always ask a per-question Meta and try to get at a consensus that might make an edge case not have that answer

Though we have no Meta on whether such per-question Metas are helpful/harmful, and asking one... I can't imagine going well

NautArch

Right, a question can always be asked. But if the policy is clear, we just dupe them bak.

Medix2

But we haven't been doing that

People already disagree whether we should do that (as shown by the duplicate votes on recent per-question Metas)

NautArch

Sure, but I think that's what we're discussing here. Whether a single policy would help just put an end to this.

Someone is going to need to end up unhappy

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov Are we talking strictly 5e? because I'm like 90% certain that there was something somewhere explicitly stating this to be the case

Thomas Markov

15:41

@RevenantBacon IDK, maybe.

Medix2

So something like "Should per-question Metas on adding in system tags be closed as duplicates of the current policy Q&A?" I'm a bit scared to even ask that ngl

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov It may have been a tweet from JC tho

Medix2

@RevenantBacon JC has talked at length about it and it is a subject he has been alarmingly consistent with

Perhaps even unprecedentedly so

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov i'm trying to think of a case where they wouldn't be targets.

Medix2

There is this vaguely helpful SAC question: "If a Grave Domain cleric casts a spell that restores hit points to multiple creatures and one of those creatures has 0 hit points, does the spell restore the maximum number of hit points to all targets of the spell?"

Someone_Evil

15:44

Dragon's Breath is at least one of the awkward cases

Thomas Markov

Ive got an answer somewhere where I insisted that AoE affected creature were targets and got some push back. Ill find it.

NautArch

@Someone_Evil whats the case there?

Medix2

@NautArch Can you twin it?

MikeQ

Can an evil druid cast goodberry? Or would they need to cast evilberry? Discuss.

Medix2

@MikeQ Where's my neutralberry at

NautArch

15:47

@Medix2 ah

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 That's just a bush.

Someone_Evil

@NautArch Whether the spell targets only the creature targeted by it, or also the creatures affected by a subsequent action

NautArch

@MikeQ depends on your view of good:P

Bardic Wizard

@MikeQ why the moral question?

NautArch

@Someone_Evil I would lean towards twinning allowed. kindasorta. BUt in that case, I think it's okay.

Bardic Wizard

15:48

Can’t the alignment be completely separate from the berries?

Someone_Evil

@NautArch I would too, but that's in direct disagreement with a JC tweet

MikeQ

Are the berries good aligned? Do they detect as good? Can they become clerics?

Thomas Markov

Questions about alignment are off topic

NautArch

@Someone_Evil That sounds...more than okay?

I'm not sure what JC's tweet has to do with anything :P

Thomas Markov

This is my favorite interaction with twinned spell

NautArch

15:50

@ThomasMarkov The first mistake there is someone is trying to use compelled duel

2

Someone_Evil

@NautArch They are often cited on rules discussions, and often with a "since that's how it works for that spell, how does it work for this one"

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I swear we have a disagreeing answer somewhere

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Not for me! But I hear you, folks like to reference JC.

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 About compelled duel?

NautArch

And i used to when his tweets were official. But I never liked doing it and now that they're not, I see zero reason to reference them.

I mean, I'd listen to them more if there was consistency, but there isn't.

So at best, Jeremy Crawford is an untrustworthy narrator.

Medix2

15:51

@ThomasMarkov Nah, another spell that ends when X happens but when Twinned they argued the whole spell didn't end maybe...

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 hmmmmmm

Medix2

I though it was witch bolt but I guess not

"A bonus action is an action, but it is not Your Action" *continues grumbling about natural language*

NautArch

I do think it's kind of weird why you can't hold a bonus action.

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 I made that argument in this answer

Someone_Evil

@NautArch Another point here is that since it's two player options interacting, knowing how it will be ruled before it comes up is important. So players and DM not being clear on how much precedence to give those tweets can be a problem.

NautArch

15:56

@Someone_Evil Well, giving zero precedence to them is probably the correct approach.

YOu can use them as potential guidance, but given his opposing tweet 'rulings', it really shines a big light on how questionnable it is to put too much into them.

As I usually say in comments, his tweets are only indicative as to how he'd rule on the question at the time he wrote the tweet. No more, no less.

Medix2

@NautArch Unless, of course, they get added into the SAC verbatim

Ya know, after whatever mysterious process decides what gets thrown in there

NautArch

@Medix2 Yes, but I've also learned to ignore SAC, too. There are official rulings that for me directly contradict the written rules and that I don't agree with.

But yeah, if they're in there, then it's an official ruling.

whether or not i like it :)

nitsua60

16:17

'Sup, simians?

NautArch

@nitsua60 banana?

nitsua60

banana who?

Someone_Evil

banana phone?

nitsua60

orange you glad I didn't say "banana"?

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil sounds appealing

nitsua60

16:18

knock, knock

AncientSwordRage

My dog has no nose

Medix2

How in the world does a post from 3 years ago have close votes?

@nitsua60 Who's there?

nitsua60

interrupting nitsua

baa-aaa!

NautArch

baaaaaaa

nitsua60

baaaaa

Medix2

16:21

@nitsua60 I really didn't think that could be funny over text and yet here I am... Laughing

nitsua60

@Medix2 I'll admit, I'm chuckling, too. And I didn't expect it'd play, either.

Good thing I'm wearing a mask, or the kids sitting in my classroom taking a quiz might be curious....

Bardic Wizard

@nitsua60 Teachers who talk during tests are one of the most annoying things in school

nitsua60

@BardicWizard They're right up there with kids who talk during tests =P

Bardic Wizard

@nitsua60 no, the teacher can tell kids to shut up. Nobody can tell the teacher that w/o getting in trouble

nitsua60

That's a fair observation.

RevenantBacon

16:30

@ThomasMarkov RE: Twinned Compelled Duel. I don't think the second point is correct. The spell specifies if you cast a spell that targets a hostile creature other than the target. Since twinned spell doesn't cast a new version of the spell, and merely expands the number of targets, both creatures are "the target" and therefore casting a harmful spell on either of them is fine.

Medix2

I don't think they claim that?

AncientSwordRage

@RevenantBacon that was also my reading

Medix2

@RevenantBacon Oh, you're saying there's now "one target" hmmmm

RevenantBacon

I do still agree with the first point though, as it states "another creature" rather than "the target"

AncientSwordRage

..as in it's not sure casting the same spell twice

Medix2

16:32

Oh wait no you're not... I just can't read

Hmmm that is an interesting point... I wonder what else that can apply to

Answer to this agrees with you @RevenantBacon

Witch Bolt similarly says you can damage "the target" but the answer says you can damage both of them

Rubiksmoose

@Medix2 This is honestly a very good question. Something I have talked and thought a lot about. Unfortunately no perfect solution was reached.

I'll have to dig into my spoon drawer when I have a few to see what I can pull out of those thoughts. Unfortunately work and US elections have left me fairly silverware-less at the moment :(

NautArch

I really think there is no perfect solution. Either we pick a position and have upset people. Or we don't pick a position and have upset people. All while still upsetting a new querent most likely.

Rubiksmoose

oh there's definitely no perfect solution.

NautArch

16:47

The only reason why I like the hard line better is at least that teaches the querent about tags.

well, not the only reason

Thomas Markov

@NautArch I like it because applying it is entirely unambiguous.

NautArch

that too, but that doesn't make it good. Just unambiguous.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch Depends on what kind of arguments you want. Do you prefer arguments about how to apply the rule or arguments about if the rule should exist?

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov yes.

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 I found it.

Hot RPG Questions

17:08

6

Q: Can a wild shaped druid reply to Message?

The wizard casts Message and targets my druid that's currently a wolf. Wild Shape mentions: You can’t cast spells, and your ability to speak or take any action that requires hands is limited to the capabilities of your beast form. Transforming doesn’t break your concentration on a spell you’ve a...

dnd-5e spells druid wild-shape

Thomas Markov

I think This question needs a bit more information, but I'm not sure how to word that comment.

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I just hear the "don't worry about old questions" thing again

I debated cleaning up numerous old tags like tool-recommendation and game-recommendation but I determined nobody thought it was worth it to make old, long-forgotten questions match current standards and practice

@ThomasMarkov I'm confused... Is that asking about putting on or taking off an amulet?

Thomas Markov

Im not sure what exactly its asking, which is why I left my close vote on it.

I just ate a large blizzard from Dairy Queen because I have no self control and now I feel like im going to die of cold damage.

GcL

17:36

Better than living in the north where blizzards can swallow you.

KorvinStarmast

@user-024673 thanks for the good wishes

@Someone_Evil Indeed it is; split. Any pretense of consensus would seem to overlook that aspect. And it would seem to me that without consensus the term "policy" might be a mis-label

NautArch

→ 1 message moved to Trash

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ since most druids are neutral, the answer is mu

NautArch

@GcL I was kinda serious about adding a response to that question from OP on the shield guardian removal command - but it also seems moot because if the amulet is on the guardian, then the command is worthless.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch The actual answer is "oozlum bird" but I don't think that most people will understand it.

GcL

17:45

@NautArch Yeah. There's some confusion in the wording of the title and content of the question. I figured the gist of the query was "can a shield guardian be given it's sock and be free?"

NautArch

@GcL yeah, that's ultimately it, but may as well answer all their questions and close the loop.

GcL

I've used shield guardians in a magic heavy campaign. One was a puzzle. The guardian was guarding a corpse. The solution was to cast gentle repose on the corpse.

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener I wasn't sure if you'd been privy to any mod internal discussions on that while diamonded, but thanks for the further clafirication. 👍

@ThomasMarkov The point is that this site allegedly relies on expertise. The longer I see the conversation going, the more I prefer that there not be a policy; use judgment informed by expertise. The sentiment of "we need a policy" is one to be wary of.

GcL

@NautArch I think the querent was confused about the mechanics of the amulet. They can clear that up in their post. I suggest taking it out as it's just a distraction from their main line of inquiry.

@KorvinStarmast Are you suggesting a policy of being wary of policies? /S

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I don't totally agree there. The problem is we have a lot of experts with varying knowledge. Which expert ends up getting to be 'right' here?

KorvinStarmast

17:50

@GcL I am back to the oozlum bird here, I deem. 😁

NautArch

@GcL Okay, up to you.

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Is that like a snipe or jackelope?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch We have a process; let it work. I dislike the "I need an easy button" appeal. Mind you, I have written answers and comment that advocate for both positions - I am able to understand value in either path forward, which makes me even more strongly opposed to the "I need a policy (aka bludgeon)" approach.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast You think the process is working?

KorvinStarmast

@GcL No, it's a Britism or an Aussie-ism that I learned years ago from a RN helicopter pilot. I just discovered that it's been around for some years and has its own wikipedia page entry.

@NautArch Yes, I do.

NautArch

17:53

@KorvinStarmast Heh, okay. The constant meta posts about it suggest otherwise.

I'm just looking to avoid those arguments again and again.

And honestly, I'm fine with either hard decision. I'm less fine with loosey goosey and debates every time they come up.

not sure if the loosey goosey is a type of oozlum.

GcL

@KorvinStarmast I read "British or Aussie" as "cake or death" which is an Izzardism.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch For me, it's more like irritable bowel syndrome ... 😮

@GcL Is Eddie dead?

GcL

I don't think so. Wasn't he running marathons just a little bit ago?

KorvinStarmast

@GcL Short answer: The oozlum is a rare bird who, when startled, will take off and fly around in ever-decreasing circles until it manages to fly up its own backside, disappearing completely ... which adds to its rarity

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast What!? No. WP, at least, doesn't have him at dead.

KorvinStarmast

17:58

I thus postulate that if the shield guardian were to be given its own amulet, it would behave as would an oozlum bird does, since my brain saw a kind of infinite recursion being possible in that case. It would discover its own perfect hiding place.

NautArch

@nitsua60 widespread panic?

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Ahhh... I see the physiological deficiency of humans in comparison to this majestic critter. Our heads are too big and just get stuck.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Good, must have been some other comic then that was in my brain.

@GcL yeah, certainly an obstacle to perfect hiding, and one need not even use the second levl rope trick spell ...

nitsua60

@NautArch I think that's currently living elsewhere on the internet =|

KorvinStarmast

Meeting time, ciao!

NautArch

17:59

@nitsua60 climb to safety!

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