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5:00 PM
Eh, I guess the taxonomy doesn't actually matter. We just need to know what's already been enjoyed, which we do
 
@Medix2 I would consider Kingdom Hearts to be a JRPG and it has third-person trailing camera
Although yes, genre lines aren't clear here.
 
@NautArch A bit of a swerve, but how do you like puzzle games?
 
@Someone_Evil Derp, I read Points of Interest as Points of Light. The description is fine, but slightly odd capitalisation threw me off (or messed with my ability to read)
 
@kviiri Yeah that's fair, I'd probably consider Etrian Odyssey that as well, albeit a dungeon crawling JRPG
@Yuuki Now that's the genre I know a lot about XD
 
Etrian Odyssey is a weird beast and I love it.
 
5:02 PM
And then there's the lovely question of "what exactly counts as a roguelike"
:-))
 
I haven't found another game that's anything quite like it.
And no game scratches exactly the right itch that Etrian Odyssey does.
I suppose it's the weird mix of class mechanics, party tactics, and dungeon cartography that does it for me.
Heavy emphasis on the latter.
 
@kviiri That's the worst can of worms, especially when somebody brings up rogue-lite vs rogue-like
@Yuuki Persona Q and Mary Skelter are very similar series
 
@Medix2 Persona Q is a crossover, IIRC.
Yep, made by the same devs, Atlus.
 
Also Labyrinth of Refrain: Coven of Dusk (for another Etrian-esque game)
 
@Medix2 Yeah. It has all the ingredients for long-lasting high-heat flames, I reckon --- the original "Rogue" and its immediate followers have lots of features that are unusual for modern video games, and the whole classification attempt is a retroactive attempt to pin down which of those features defined the genre. And of course we're talking about fandoms that fell into relative obscurity, suddenly to see their term being "appropriated". No wonder emotions fly high at a few points.
 
5:07 PM
@Medix2 I think that's also Atlus.
 
@Medix2 I think that Diablo (original) was a rogue like that made the decision to go real time versus turn based, 25/sec frame rate.
 
@Yuuki So you want similar games but not from Atlus?
 
Nope, Nippon Ichi.
(Who ported Persona Q and other Atlus games over to the US)
 
Crypt of the Necrodancer is one of my favorite roguelikes
 
@KorvinStarmast Now I want a 1-frame per second game.........
 
5:08 PM
@Medix2 I think we're straying a bit because we're finding games for @NautArch, not me.
@kviiri Asteroids was my favorite roguelike.
 
@Medix2 I think I'd eat my keyboard in a case like that ...
 
@Medix2 If "game state update" is enough, Crypt of the Necrodancer is actually roughly that.
 
@NautArch Do you enjoy SoulsBourne games?
@kviiri Yeah I realized right after you said it and was pleasantly surprised
 
@kviiri Cadence of Hyrule if you have a Switch.
 
I just wish someone else did their own roguelike-rhythm game so it wouldn't be a single-game genre and it could flourish
 
5:14 PM
@kviiri Yeah the closest thing I know of isn't even close (the various grid-based but real-time series of old and new)
 
Ah nay, Yuuki pre-empted my pining
Such pine-pre-empter, Yuuki is
 
Speaking of video games... how's this crowd feeling about the baldurs gate 3 cinematic
 
heck, I almost don't play Diablo III anymore since I have decided that a card game like Hearthstone is more entertaining - in that I can have a short or a long session depending on what little time I have. (And my son can give me tips on strategy, he's really good at playin a rogue)
 
@SirCinnamon I'm disgusted and I can't wait for release day.
I'm disgusted mostly because things crawling into eyes is eurgh.
 
I generally would like to see more shots at game concepts that have been dominated by a single franchise be re-visited, with new takes on the mechanics and such. Like Civilization, for example --- it's the only major turn-based strategy franchise with the concept of guiding a nation/state from the ancient age to the near future, with an (ostensibly) holistic take on running a country.
 
5:17 PM
@KorvinStarmast If you like card games, I hear a bunch of people have jumping ship from Hearthstone over to Legends of Runeterra.
(Yes, Riot made a CCG)
And they announced that their team-based tactics shooter is going into beta this summer as well.
 
@kviiri That's kinda... really specific
 
@Medix2 I dunno, is it? Many games feature some sort of technology progression, many games allow taking control of a real-life empire and lead them yourself. Extending the timeframe to cover all the known periods of civilization seems like a rather natural conclusion.
 
Though there's always Age of Empires I guess, and Alpha Centauri (though that's also Sid Meier's)
 
@kviiri Europa Universalis.
And Crusader Kings.
@Medix2 Age of Empires is real-time though.
 
@Yuuki Yeah hence the hesitation, was about to add Europa, but you beat me to it XD
 
5:21 PM
EU and CK are about rather limited time frames and focus on relatively limited aspects. (So does Civ, I concede)
 
Endless Space. Or really any of the Endless strategy games are like this.
 
I like CK2 and used to like EU4 too until their design lost its edge, but I think design-wise they're not quite what Civ is.
 
Stellaris.
 
There also was that, erh... Call to Power?
 
@Yuuki You remind me that I need to play some LoL this weekend so that 1-I can remember how and 2- so that I can figure out how the passives work again.
I am not jumping from Hearthstone. I like the game.
 
5:23 PM
@KorvinStarmast 2?
Galactic Civilizations is another one.
 
Which is the only commercial game that has ~exactly the Civ concept from outside the series plus its spin-offs that I know. Outside of commercial games, there's also C-Evo and FreeCiv, but the latter is meant to be a clone.
 
Age of Wonders.
 
@Yuuki like what?
 
@Yuuki the last time I built a change to one of the heroes I prefer, the passives worked differently than they do now ... yeah, it's been a while. I almost need a tutorial.
 
@Yuuki My pining is specifically about the concept, not every 4X there is counts as a "Civ but not Civ"
 
5:25 PM
@KorvinStarmast For items? There are passives (which are just passive effects and stackable), unique passives (that you can stack with different items but not with the same item), and named passives (that don't stack at all).
 
But since you mentioned Stellaris, I'm frustrated that they're STILL not adding proper support to playing an arbitrary "fractured civilization" at the game start
 
@Medix2 are those dark souls? If so...I didn't like. Nor did I like darksiders.
 
Eg. creating three different empires of the same race and they'd eg. not be freaked out when making first contact with each other.
 
@Yuuki we used to have runes and passives ... but that has all changed twice. The Unique passives (item based) I can still probably think through.
 
@NautArch Yeah Dark Souls / Bloodborne (I know some similar 3D and 2D games). And Darksiders I wasn't gonna recommend cuz it's far more hack-and-slash
 
5:27 PM
@Yuuki I think I need to go and play Corkie again just to see how badly I have lost my touch in that game ...
 
Well, for one, Corki is now a midlaner not an ADC.
 
@KorvinStarmast You'll be in for some surprises with that character choice
 
And his damage is 80% magic despite building AD.
@Medix2 I mean, it's nothing like Poppy changes, depending on when was the last time you played her.
 
@NautArch Would you want recs for platformers or puzzle games?
 
@NautArch I'd have suggested some Zachtronic games, those are fun.
 
5:29 PM
@Medix2 I...don't think so. NOt a huge platformer fan. Like some puzzles, but I really enjoy the character progression/building/explorations of RPGs.
 
SpaceChem, Shenzhen I/O, etc.
Human Resource Machine is amusing.
 
@Medix2 So I had heard; his later in the game "go pick up the huge missiles pack at home base" boost ... is that still a thing?
 
@Yuuki Thresh sits in a corner, unchanged for so long
 
@Yuuki Heck, I often played Gang Plank as a Mana intensive mid laner ... back before barrels.
 
@Medix2 I blame Thresh for support power creep.
I mean, yeah, supports definitely need power creep back when Thresh was introduced.
 
5:31 PM
@Yuuki heh, my son is a pretty good Thresh, I never got the hang of that one.
 
I used to be a Thresh main as well. He just does everything you need from a support.
 
@Yuuki I remember a few years ago using GP as a top lane bruiser; I think the barrels were supposed to help him do that, but I wasn't great at barrel management.
 
He might not be the best hook support, poke support, shield support, engage support, etc. but he can do them all very well.
About the only support feature he can't do at all is heal.
Even then, there's Athene's Unholy Grail.
 
@Yuuki ... arrgh, when will I find the time to play LoL? :(
 
Games are faster these days, so you don't need to set aside hours at a time.
 
5:35 PM
@NautArch Hmmm yeah I don't think I have much besides what's been mentioned. Maybe maybe the following games: Shiness, Ori and the Blind Forest, Just Cause, and Transistor.
@Yuuki Hmmm maybe I should get back into it... Mostly just played Karma (anywhere) when I used to play
 
@Yuuki Between that cinematic and the earlier trailer I would say disgust is exactly how they want you to feel
 
I wonder if you're going to be playing the Adversary.
 
5
Q: Does Scorching Ray being fired at a single target count as one attack for the purpose of the Help Action?

aaron9eeeNin'Zar, the imp familiar, likes its cushy new assignment serving a Pact of the Chain Warlock. So, it wants to help its master as much as possible by using the Help Action when its master casts Scorching Ray. The spell description for Scorching Ray says: You create three rays of fire and hur...

 
Oh yeah, I talked about this.
Jun 14 '19 at 21:42, by Yuuki
@V2Blast Mind flayers so I wonder if the Adversary will ever play a part in the story.
 
What is this banner representing? The city they briefly fly over? That's not baldurs gate right?
 
5:44 PM
@Medix2 shiness looks really nice
 
Gamespot confirms according to the devs its the city or Yartar
 
6:04 PM
I had an answer for the amnesia question but then I forgot it...
 
@JohnP hey-o!
 
hey-o!
 
Also, I think I hit my wall on the rift wars with Legends of the Rift War. Having a really hard time getting into it.
 
@NautArch Legends...that was the sort of spin off/background series? Lamut, etc? I don't think I ever read it, and I tapered off the series somewhere around the Demonwar saga, not sure I ever finished it all.
 
@JohnP goes back to the time of Borric.
 
6:08 PM
Multiclass Rune Knight and Armored Artificer: Be a Power Ranger than jump into your Megazord and grow to Large size.
 
@NautArch Ok, that's right. Kind of parallels the first war with Kelewan. Yeah, I didn't read that, and I didn't read the Kelewan series Daugher of the EMpire, etc either.
 
@JohnP that was actually pretty good (the kelewan series)
 
@NautArch I might have to pick it up again. It's an occasional itch to finish the series.
@goodguy5 - Any interest in project management?
 
@JohnP depends on pay and location, but probably not. I like being a grunt.
 
Oh wait. I forgot to filter by city, it's in a different city.
 
6:12 PM
;)
 
So far my copy trail for these files consists of VM in network A to another VM in Network A to a VM in Network B to my jumpbox in network C, to my linux box in network D to get it to my laptop. What a pain.
 
6:34 PM
Hello peasants.
lol
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Hello serf.
 
DM: setting up an owlbear encounter
Me: I feel like I'm about to find a pet.
 
7
Q: Can Wish revive a creature consumed by Lich imprisonment?

VylixLich can imprison a soul in its philactery: A creature imprisoned in the phylactery for 24 hours is consumed and destroyed utterly, whereupon nothing short of divine intervention can restore it to life. Monster Manual pg. 203 The phrase 'nothing short of divine intervention' intrigues me be...

 
I am somewhat irritated by these "can wish do X" questions
 
@kviiri Aren't they all pretty much answered the same say? "It does what your DM allows"
 
6:40 PM
@JohnP Except in the rare case when something is explicitly said to be [not] Wish-able, either in the spell description or another description.
But yeah.
 
@kviiri Well, yeah, true.
 
Hm. I had a recollection of Swamp of Oblivion being explicitly Wish-proof, but I seem to have been wrong. No mention of such in the DMG.
 
I actually find it kind of odd that some spells or features dictate what can or cannot happen when wish is used.
 
There are also reverse cases: Carceri specifies in its optional rule that Wish is the only escape spell that does work.
 
I have this great character idea. A sorcerer with a high str score, wild magic, with indigo tattoos on his everywhere. Variant human, lightly armored feat. Believes a God blessed (he says cursed) him with his power.
 
6:44 PM
Or more accurately, that spells other than wish fail. Which still leaves the GM latitude to have Wish fail too... or work in an unintended fashion.
 
Like it just feels wrong to have a player come to me and say "Okay, Jackie drew The Void; I cast Wish, and my wish is 'Jacqueline Firestorm is released from the prism and her soul is placed back in her body'" and I respond with "Nope. Wish can't do that."
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Could be fun
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife So basically characters from Runelord, Deathgate cycle, Warded man, 20 palaces...
 
@JohnP yep :)
 
6:48 PM
@Xirema After a bit of searching, seems like "only wish can do X" seems to be a fairly common pattern
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Why high strength?
 
@kviiri In this case though it's specifically "Wish cannot do X".
 
@NautArch more room for tattoos
 
@Xirema My main gripe is that Wish feels like it's ideal for this earth-shaking narrative stuff while not really working like earth-shaking narrative magic ought to in my view
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife okeydoke. Not a mechanical thing relating the two, but you do you! :)
 
6:50 PM
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Why not just eat more :)
 
I mean, a 20 STR goblin won't have as much room as a 5 STR Goliath.
 
@NautArch I kinda drew the idea from a book.
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Sure. Just saying that if your goal is more room for tattoos, I don't think Strength helps you achieve that.
 
I guess my Headcanon for wish is that it's invoking a touch of Divine magic, i.e. "The DM might twist it to screw you over at their discretion, but it can do anything a God can do". So if there's a magical tarot card that can imprison your soul so mightily that even a God cannot free you, that elevates The Deck of Many Things into being an object that itself either was created by a god or is inhabited by a god.
Which maybe it was!
......
* Scribbles down notes...
 
new warlock patron, a DoMT
 
6:54 PM
@NautArch besides, when is a high str ever a bad thing?
 
I can't help comparing Wish to the rituals of Dungeon World, where the Wizard can do pretty much anything but it requires all the stuf plot-significant magics require in fiction
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife When you're a sorcerer and you dump CHA for STR? :D
 
Yeah, it's not that the high strength is bad, it's what you have to do to get high strength.
Ofc if your group doesn't mind having unusual builds it doesn't matter that much
 
@NautArch I can make it so I have 16 cha and 15 str and 14 con
a +3 and 2 +2's
 
@RandomDudeWithAKnife sure, but light armor feat then becomes less interesting because that's based off Dex which is becoming a dump stat, right? But as Kviiri, said, if optimizing your actual build isn't necessary, then you have a lot more freedom for unusual.
 
7:01 PM
studded leather armor with +1 mod, shield spell for 17
 
Shield is not a very viable way to primarily defend you though
It burns through your slots
 
true
hmm, if use my free uncommon item the DM let's us all have, I can get +1 studded leather.
`AC 14
 
+1 armor is listed as rare, unfortunately
 
^
And may as well go mage armor and use for feat for something else.
 
7:09 PM
Mage armor and staying away from opponents are generally good ways for sorcerers not to get hit
 
@Someone_Evil Mostly that second one
 
i'm totally blanking and may be making this up, is there a race with a natural armor of STR+ something?
or be a tortle
 
@NautArch Tortle is just flat 17
 
@Someone_Evil which ain't bad for a sorcerer!
and you could always cast a concnetration spell and go into your shell
 
@Someone_Evil Don't forget blasting their face off
The best defense
 
7:22 PM
Enemy can't hit you if they're dead.
 
the best defence is a bard with Cutting Words
 
Technically speaking, enemies can't hit you if you're dead either.
 
@Yuuki yeah they can. It's just a less effective action.
 
Depends on the semantics of "you" maybe
 
Ben
Morning all
 
7:30 PM
@NautArch Definitely not a real thing. Would be a nice inverse of DEX builds tho, using STR for AC instead of DEX
@NautArch I dunno, once you're dead, are you even you any more?
 
@RevenantBacon I mean that's basically just what Heavy Armor Proficiency is, to a limited degree.
 
@RevenantBacon Until you roll that new character and leave the old one behind, I'd say yes :) Revivify and other resurrection spells are a thing :)
 
Although the penalty for wearing armor above what your Strength can support is less than you tend to think of it as being.
 
@NautArch But corpses are objects not creatures.
 
@Yuuki "you" can't be an object? of affection?
 
7:37 PM
Having your opponents have you as an object of affection is more a bard thing than a sorcerer thing
 
@NautArch Given that you're dead in this case, I'm certain that more than a few DMs would object to this.
 
Ben
> Objectification Transmutation. The target gains the attributes of an object for the duration of the spell.
 
@NautArch but they you're not dead, ipso-facto you're you again.
 
Does that mean if you're true polymorphed into an object, you're not you?
 
@Ben Oh, hey, I think I've heard of this one. I always thought you had to be a highly paid male company CEO to cast it though?
 
7:52 PM
> Staff of the Python rare item Your spells treat everything as an object.
 
> Scroll of Read PHP, cursed item. Upon reading this scroll, you gain the fatigued, frightened, and poisoned conditions.
 
@NautArch You may in fact be toast
 
@Yuuki I would have said confused rather than frightened, but close enough.
 
8:09 PM
Does Enlarge/Reduce stack with the Rune Knight's Giant Might feature?
 
@Yuuki it might but it takes a giant leap with the rules.
::snerk::
 
It's a bit of a reach but with Enlarge+Giant Might, I think your arms would be long enough.
 
8:32 PM
@Yuuki You must also make sure you hide that you have ever written this scroll, otherwise people might expect you to read PHP. Doing so will re-apply these conditions.
 
@KorvinStarmast tbf why do we need any humanoid race when any other humanoid race exists? I know nothing about MTG, but it's all about how they get differentiated both mechanically and in terms of lore...
@NautArch Nice. The encounter builder currently in beta for everyone, or the combat tracker that just got released into alpha for subscribers? I've heard the latter is pretty barebones so far but then again it just got released into alpha...
 
8:54 PM
@Someone_Evil It doesn't look 4e-specific to me. I've expanded it a bit though.
@Someone_Evil ah that explains it :P
@SirCinnamon Extreme hype. also illithids pls keep your tadpoles out of my eyes
 
@V2Blast Depends on whether the term "race" is limited to physical aspects, or also accounts for differences in culture and background. Mechanically leonin are categorized as "cat", but lore-wise the term refers to cat-folk from specific planes.
 
 
@MikeQ I mean, mechanically they're not categorized as "cat". They're just categorized in our heads as cats because they're clearly based on lions in some way. Mechanically they haven't been categorized at all in 5e because the book's not out yet :P
 
No, in MTG they're categorized as "cat" because "cat" is their creature type. Cat soldier, cat knight, cat cleric, etc.
 
@MikeQ cat monkey, cat snake, cat demon
 
9:05 PM
@MikeQ I meant in D&D 5e.
 
@MarkWells Cat cat, aka Felis catus.
 
"cat" isn't a creature type in 5e :P
@Yuuki CatDog?
 
Yes, I'm talking in MTG terms to demonstrate the difference in how MTG and 5e categorize things. Another example: MTG categorizes loxodons as "elephant", whereas GGTR (5e) has them as humanoids.
 
Sure, but I'm just pointing out in response to Korvin's point (of why we need a new race for them when tabaxi exist) that the fact that leonin are cat-people doesn't really tell us anything about whether the tabaxi stats could just have been used for them or if the new race's stats will be substantially different. D&D 5e's concept of race does indeed account for ancestry, culture, and a few other concepts.
Anyway
The product's now officially announced: dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/…
lookit that alt cover
they need to release a bigger image of that
 
Is that... an official "Bard that's good at public speaking" subclass? Is it the apocalypse already? Cats and dogs and CatDogs living together?
 
9:17 PM
@MarkWells lol. both the Creation bard and Heroism paladin were in UA: media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-EloquentHeroics.pdf
 
College of Whispers could be good at public speaking. In the sense that you'd be good at speaking privately in public.
 
@Yuuki College of Swords is good at public speaking, in the sense that you're good at speaking to your sword in public.
 
@V2Blast combat tracker was pretty good, too. Need to figure out how to link the players in the campaign
 
@V2Blast I suppose that's another way to look at it. FWIW, gnomes ... :p
 
@NautArch I believe there's an option somewhere to choose a set of player characters from one of the campaigns you're in?
 
9:30 PM
@V2Blast I noticed the combat tracker when I started the session :) didn't play around with it for set up, but will for next round
Good news is they want some non combat!
 
@V2Blast We don't need any o' them damn dirty Half-Dwarves around here, no sir.
 
9:57 PM
From what I've seen of mermaid memes, order of operations is just as important in race hybrids as it is in arithmetic.
 
10:15 PM
@RevenantBacon What's a half dwarf? (I am not 3.x expert, so I may have missed a splat book or ten ...)
 
Do folks that play on grids use the square or hex? We've always used hex and the weird diagonal issue is totally resolved.
 
@KorvinStarmast A quarterling.
 
@NautArch We play on square grids, but exclusively because I'm compelled to draw dungeon maps that neatly align to the grid, which I'm realizing is an instinct I need to train out of myself.
 
@NautArch Then try mapping square areas on hexes (also lines)
 
@Medix2 We just cut through the hex boxes and move on :)
 
10:27 PM
The problem is that there are both square areas and circular areas, which cannot both work perfectly
 
But the whole having to change value of a space based on direction seems crazy.
 
It just makes it more realistic , but fair point
 
Oh, i get why! It's just clunky for me. And that radius question about spirit guardians really highlighted it. Looks like it's 15' away? Nah, that's 20.
 
Except spirit guardians is apparently also weird because it measure from the outside of your entire controlled space instead of from one point... *grumble grumble*
 
yeah, that too.
heh
 
10:36 PM
Yeah that's fair. The only things I don't like about hex are having less movement options, (though this does mean less enemies can surround you at once) and moving around an object requires more movement on hexes than it does on squares
 
Less movement options on a hex?
 
You can move in six directions instead of eight
 
True, but at least all directions cost the same movement :)
 
They aren't big things by any means. And most of my complaints about either are actually just complaints about games including both square and circular shapes, when grids of any kind won't support both
@NautArch Yeah and that's where I have to rethink my visualization of space. Something taking up one square is very different from taking up one hex (at least in terms of the movement required to maneuver around it)
For instance, getting to the opposite side of a blocked square requires 3 movement on squares and 4 movement on hexes. For 2x2s they change to 5 movement vs 6 and then 7 vs 9 for 3x3s
In my head they're equally valid, just different. That said, gotta love hexes for anything with snaking paths or vehicles (such smoother turning!)
Is the used on Meta when your question is about multiple specific questions?
 
11:03 PM
@Medix2 I believe so
 
 
I'm just realizing we have a good chunk of questions on square-grids, and mapping circular effects onto them in 5e-dnd, but as I'm writing this I'm thinking they might not be duplicates, there's just a lot of them
 
@Medix2 Yes, it'd be appropriate on those too. It basically distinguishes questions about issues relating to specific questions from, e.g., questions about overall policy.
 
Question: should I be flagging old "please don't answer in comments" comments?
On the one hand they are old comments, and are (usually) calling out specific users. On the other hand they are informing visitors of something not to do and typically on questions that have prompted such comments already
 
11:27 PM
1
Q: Exchanging Weapons from an Armory

starkMy character exchanged a crossbow for a longbow from a Weapons Workshop he came across. By replacing the crossbow, would the attack bonus stay the same ? The crossbow had a damage roll of 1d6 + 6 piercing damage. Would the Longbow's damage be just 1d8 or 1d8 + 6? The fighter's dexterity is...

 
So apparently Arcane Archer is not supposed to require magical arrows to work (for its Arcane Shot feature to work). That makes it, function normally..?
 
11:44 PM
0
Q: Is it acceptable to include your opinion of the quality of character choices in an answer?

IfusasoI've noticed what I consider a trend to include whether or not character choices (Classes, Subclasses, Feats, Qualities, etc) are a "good" choice either in comments or frequently as part of an answer. Sometimes the comment/Answer goes into more detail while other times it is simply labeled a bad ...

 
@Someone_Evil Correct, that's an error that I think was corrected already: sageadvice.eu/2017/11/07/…
 
@V2Blast But not corrected in the sense of clarifying the mistake in an official fashion, say an errata document. Only quietly fixed in new printings (presumably)
 
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