TRPG General Chat

Well I think knowing stuff about the past can be useful in extrapolating what is currently going on

In world building and such

Adeptus

5:51 AM

So I'm kind of working on a plotline that's not a clear good vs evil - new human kingdom ruled by son of founder, vs native orcs under vengeful warlord. I want the orc leader to be obviously a bad guy, but not the orcs as a whole. Ideal outcome will be kill leader, negotiate peace (, deal with vengeful relative...).

The ancient elf war probably won't have any bearing on plot, but does help shape the world. Dragonborn empire may be source of artifacts to fight BBEG, though. I'm also trying to work out why the dragonborn empire fell, & where the descendents are now... thinking maybe civil war, but not sure

A civil war sounds like a pretty dragonborn thing to happen

XD

They can be pretty arrogant even with each other

In 4e, the dragonborn empire fell after winning a Phyrric victory over an evil tiefling empire.

True

They also had Tiamat cultists undermining them though

Presumably; the "official" lore didn't really specify that, I added it to our campaign because it made sense in my version of events.

6:28 AM

I want to ask a question, but I am afraid that this stack exchange will burst into flames at my asking of it. So I am going to ask it here to get opinions first.
"If you glue a note to an arrow, then fire it into battle, can you recover the note?"

@BESW ah fair enough, i forget sometimes we added cool things into that history

@AmethystWizard In most game systems there wouldn't be a clear mechanic for handling that ruling. In most of my games I'd just allow it, unless failure would be at least as interesting.

@trogdor [grin] Aside from a bit of fudging the timeline, I didn't remove much at all from the "official" lore, but most of that time period is so vague that I had to embellish so I figured I might as well be as awesome as possible.

Yeah, thinking about 5e - the question encompasses a few interesting areas. If an object is glued to another object, does that change it's nature, or are they still separate as far as adjudicating what happens. I suppose I would get a answer such as "the DM decides" but what interests me is actually parsing it out.

6:52 AM

@BESW it was pretty cool

V2Blast

I mean, "up to the DM" is probably the best answer you'll get. The Ammunition property just says "At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield." It doesn't say whether the other half can be found but is broken/damaged beyond the point of usability, or totally lost, or something else. So whether the thing attached to the arrow is recoverable seems to depend entirely on that.

Q: Why is the PHB Ranger considered underpowered?

Yeah true, I created a chat room to continue the discussion rather than to ask on the stack chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/104828/the-arrow-room

for those who like esoteric 5e rules stuff

If I were DM, I would create a new category of items, meta objects, things that are non magical but seemingly break the physics of the d&d universe.

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7:33 AM

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It seems that both the community and Wizards of the Coast are largely in agreement that the PHB Ranger class is underpowered compared to the other classes. What exactly makes it underpowered compared to other classes? More specifically, how does the 2019 UA class feature variant Ranger improve ...

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8:39 AM

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1:49 PM

@AmethystWizard Esoteric or pedantic? because I only like the combination if we're talking about putting together a formal ontology.

2:00 PM

Yes haha, that we are.

2:22 PM

@AmethystWizard It's probably ask-able, but it's going to be "ask your DM"

You're straying from rules at that point (with attaching something to an arrow), so it'll be up to the DM to determine what happens.

Where does two objects become one is something that 5e, for better or worse, doesn't offer almost any guidance for one thing.

And the idea of 'recovery' is also slightly different. Just like with AC, not 'hitting' can be narratively explained as either hit but not hurt or miss, recovery could be you found it, but you can't use it again.

for reason

@AmethystWizard Entirely depends on the player and DM. If the player has a history of asking oblique questions about ammo recovery, the answer is "better shoot two". If it's a clever solution to a plot hurdle and advances the story, the answer is likely "sure, let's figure out how difficult of a shot it is."

Yeah. Personally, I've never even tracked ammo in a game (well recently anyways; never in 5e). I find it to be not fun for every game/group I've played with. So unless they have some magical ammo that is super special, I don't even bother with it.

@Rubiksmoose I started tracking ammo with my group...and then stopped.

Same with rations. It's just a mechanic that's easily resolved by buying more of something.

Oh, you need rations for a trip, buy more rations. Oh, you need ammo? Buy more.

Just seems like an unnecessary gate

2:28 PM

Agreed.

It's been useful to me for players that would otherwise just treat any situation as a siege given limitless ammo.

I mean, i'll track a special limited use ammunition. But mundane? Nah.

Also ones that like to constantly care all their equipment.

@GcL But when you can carry an obscene amount of ammo and items given a reasonable strength score, it's just seems like an unnecessary step unless someone wants to track it.

Which got ridiculous when a couple characters were otherwise always carrying a crowbar and battering ram.

@NautArch You can carry a lot of ammo, but not accessible ammo. Quivers are where the weight gets you for not str based archers.

2:31 PM

@GcL Yeah that seems like one way to handle that tactic assuming you want to dissuade them from it.

@GcL Meh. Up to the player for me. I don't see a reason to limit what a ranged character can do vs a melee character.

Unless the ranged player really wants those limits.

Or a ranged martial vs a ranged caster.

@NautArch Had a mid level ranger that would have otherwise been able to shoot everything nearly all the time. 20 shots is a lot of shots for most characters that will get 1/round.

@Rubiksmoose This, but I can see it depending on a campaign. Lots of my games have operated under the implicit assumption the players have a place to re-supply and don't have little enough cash they'd need to worry about not affording things.

Rangers and rogues where the two characters that pushed the limitless ammo issue for me.

(or they have a patron who gladly pays their expenses)

2:36 PM

I dunno. Limitless cantrips are fine. So I'm good with limitless ammunition. I'm really having a hard time coming up with a reason to say at some point in a fight "Well, you're out of ammo unless you want to spend your turn getting more".

But everyone else? Yeah, y'all are good.

@kviiri For sure. Though I personally don't think the 5e does a good job making survival-type games any fun. So I'd usually avoid any campaigns where this was an integral part.

@Rubiksmoose We are in agreement there. And NautArch has a good point too, about limitless cantrips vs limitless ammo.

and in context you go through ammunition so slowly

in your average D&D fight how many arrows does an archer even fire

a dozen?

@NautArch The casters with decent ranged cantrips don't get martial abilities and usually don't have a melee alternative. Saddling up to the rogue was an exercise in getting stabbed and dealing with dodge. Getting in melee range of the warlock was really bad news for the warlock.

that's not worth worrying about

2:38 PM

@Carcer six until they get a second attack for my group.

I like abstract resources, in general, more than concrete ones. Eg. some game I recall having a system where one has at most a "d12" of something. When they use those resources, they roll: a 1 or 2 results in the die size falling by one. (Resulting in running out completely after d4)

yeah, exactly. Combat tends to be over in less than a minute and there's only so many arrows you can shoot.

@kviiri That seems reasonable.

@GcL They can cast a cantrip that effectively turns the multiple attacks that the martials get into a single attack with equivalent damage. It's just less attack rolls.

@Carcer And then you get roughly half of them back.

2:38 PM

That sounds intriguing for tracking resources that one has "a lot" of, at least --- I mean, stuff that can plausibly run out but whose usage is still hard-ish to measure.

@NautArch It's limitless ammo too, but at the cost of being much squishier.

@GcL Have never tried it, though :)

@NautArch eldritch blast has equivalent damage, but for other cantrips not really

@Carcer Firebolt was the goto for my groups.

a 3d10 firebolt sounds impressive but a specialist wizard gets to add ability score mod once

2:40 PM

@Carcer It's a decent default while maintaining a concentration spell.

whereas a fighter making three attacks with a d10 weapon is doing 3d10+15 if all hits

In a similar vein I like how AW doesn't bother with the "gold piece" tracking but you just have "globs" of barter as the base unit of wealth, and only significant expenses are enough to actually reduce that. It's not my favorite money mechanic but it's the first alternative one I found, and that gives it a veneer of nostalgy.

@Carcer which is kind of like another d10

@kviiri would you like to hear about d20 modern and the Wealth Modifier

@Carcer Yeah, but a fighter can't drop a fireball three or four times a day (just an action surge for +3d10+15)

2:41 PM

@kviiri camo.githubusercontent.com/…

@DavidCoffron only one attack? A surging fighter gets a complete extra Extra Attack.

@DavidCoffron And the wizard won't last three or four rounds in melee with ogres. They make a nice combo together though.

oh there you go

@Carcer Yeah, I fixed it

and your stealth edits

2:42 PM

@Carcer Well, you don't get the ability modifier added to damage, but the dice scale. BUt the modifier is legit.

@GcL Depends on the wizard. Shield + Bladesong or War Magic can go a long way.

Plus, you could always use Tenser's transformation to wear armor just like the fighter.

@DavidCoffron A well prepared wizard is a force to be reckoned with for sure. The martial classes are more generalists for dealing with whatever crops up.

@DavidCoffron if you prepared it.

@GcL That's a fair way to spin it.

Then you're walking around in armor and kind of have to use it. Which is a departure from how I remember previous editions of that spell.

@GcL You don't have to be walking around in armor. You can always don it before a fight you expect to use Tenser's in (although once again, fighters are more generally capable)