TRPG General Chat

mbork

00:00

8. At least one or two ready-made adventures would be very good - I don't feel confident thinking them up as a beginner GM.

Black Spike

A link to an on-site, but closed for off-topic (as you rightly said) question:
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/79/are-there-any-good-tabletop-rpgs-for-young-beginning-players

mbork

9. Last but not least, the system should not be too concentrated on combat. Occasional fight is fine.

@BlackSpike thanks. I see that the first recommendation is "The Princes Kingdom". That one would be great, as I already have it (and I even translated the rulebook to Polish a few years ago with my daughter in mind!). It doesn't have any adventures, though. I might be able to think something up, but I'd probably need some source of inspiration (or something generic enough I could adapt it to that system). Any hints?

Black Spike

Adventures are easy :D

mbork

Maybe they are - for more experienced people...

Black Spike

<blatant plug #2> do you have Android phone? I wrote some Random Stuff apps.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Mad+Dwarf+Productions
Random Lists Pro/Elite has "Quests"

mbork

00:07

Well, I could make up a general plot like this. But I suspect that would not be enough to make it interesting...

Black Spike

oh, free has Quests

mbork

thanks, I'll check that out!

Black Spike

They are v simple. Just the title, really ...

But often that is enough to inspire the rest :)

mbork

I see. Out of curiosity, what did you use to code that app?

(I'm toying with the idea of writing some Android apps myself.)

Black Spike

Android Studio (Java). It's just a set of Text-Arrays, a Random Number generator, and a ListView (now called recycler)

My Random Lists (incl. NPCs and City) are VERY simple. type up Arrays of words. Pick random ones :)

mbork

00:14

OK, I thought so - Java is not for me;-). (I wrote one Android app in Java once. Never again.)

Black Spike

They now have Kotlin. Which is sort of java++, I think? ... or thre are other ways

mbork

I'd rather try React Native - I'm a JS programmer.

Black Spike

looked at JS while I was tying to learn PHP/SQL for webpages. ugh ... is not for me ;-)

mbork

Well, JS is not as good as my "native" language (which is Lisp), but is close enough;-).

Black Spike

I think you can mash C++ into Android ... that is all I know ...

mbork

00:17

Coming back - so what about some adventures I could adapt to "The Princes' Kingdom", for instance? (Assuming I'm going to go with that system.) Is there a place I could find such things? As a beginner, I'd like at least to see how people are writing them - the level of detail, side quests, ideas...

Black Spike

I do not know "The Princes Kingdom"

mbork

Never mind the system in itself - I assume that if I have an adventure for system X, I could try to adapt it to system Y - what I really need is (a) examples and (b) source of inspiration

and (c) probably I'm just seeking an answer to the question "if I'm a beginner and so is my kid, and we're going to play 1-on-1, and I'm going to have to think the adventure up myself, is there any chance for us to have a good experience or should I just give up?"...

Black Spike

My advice is:
pick a basic plot (recover the gem. Take the scroll to the king. Search the forest for the mushroom)
Pick a few Challenges (The Baddie sends guards. The river is too big to cross. there are monsters. the Gem is hidden)

You know your daughter. Think of things she might be interested in :)
I know I'm saying "You do all the work" ... my only other answer is "look on rpg.net"
Sorry, that's all I got.
I don't have kids :)

I think you can make it a good time!

mbork

And are there any examples of adventures written by other people on the internet?

Black Spike

Lots!

Too many to list ...

mbork

00:25

Actually, I guess your answer is good, and you don't have to apologize at all - I understand it's going to be work. Fortunately, it's going to be fun as well.

any examples? That would probably help the most ATM..

Black Spike

I wrote an adventure this week! For a D&D game i might run ... I'll give you the summary:

Set up: A village makes good apples, because their Priest knows a Blessing. He Blesses the Orchard, and good apples grow. The farmer takes the apples, and apple-pies and cider, and other apple-products to market, and is well-known for good apples! :)
Problem: Farmer has not turned up! No-one can get good apples!
<daughter> goes to village to see why no apples ...

mbork

Sounds like a good beginning!

(And actually sounds like something written for TPK!)

Black Spike

Plot: asking Villagers, they don't want to talk about it. Maybe if she is Charming, or Threatening, or has something to Offer/Trade, they will say about the Imps in the Orchard.
Or going and looking in the Orchard, maybe she will notice signs of Imps

Secret: The Blessing is from a Saint, but the Saint does not like Imps, and if there are Imps n the Village, NO Blessing! :(

Villagers do not know this

Eventually, <daughter> finds Imps, finds Imps are the problem

How to solve? Beat them up, run them off? Find a better place for them? Trade? That's up to her :) Can she find a way to restore the Blessing? What happens to the Imps?

That's it :)

mbork

Wow, thanks. Looks good, though I guess I'd need to fill in a few/a lot of things. But you made the little gears in my head spinning. Thanks again!

Black Spike

:)

The other one I wrote is a little darker. Merchant opens up an old mine, but the local village doesn't get asked for people to work, or for supplies for miners!
Secret: The merchant is using Undead (skeletons/zombie) as Miners. I suppose you could swap Undead for Golems/constructs/machines

My gf ran a kids game:
It's your friends birthday, but someone has stolen the Cake!
Tracks lead to swamp. Ogre lives in swamp. No-one likes ogre. Ogre wants a birthday!
Solutions: Recover cake. Befriend Ogre?

Challenges: Ogre has some goblin friends. They may play pranks, and cause nuisance.

mbork

00:49

Thanks again! Now I'll think before I go to sleep (it's almost 2am here...)

Black Spike

Hope you have good games! Come back for more ideas! And to let us know how games go!

BESW

@mbork I would not recommend The Princes' Kingdom because it's designed for multiple players. Many systems can work okay as one-on-one games even if they aren't designed for that, but TPK's action resolution mechanic is built around the idea that multiple players will disagree about what to do and must negotiate a compromise or some people will force others to agree with them.

Also, unless you modify the fallout tables, it's really easy for your kid's character (who is probably about the same age as the player) to just die.

Perhaps instead consider Fate Accelerated, which was translated into Polish by someone who sometimes uses this website, and has free simple English-language setting/adventure resources and it shouldn't be too hard to translate their player-facing materials on your own.

Black Spike

<Aside> Did they know that their acronym is TPK? I'm guessing "yes", and in fact might have been an inspiration ...

BESW

Probably not intentional, the text seems blissfully unaware of the implications of asking 6-year-olds to play a game where forcing your point of view automatically introduces death as a possible consequence.

Black Spike

01:05

Fair enough. I don't know the game. I suppose, if it's for kids, TPK is not imagery they want to invoke

BESW

(While TPK is technically a game that doesn't default to lethal force, its system of stakes means that introducing the possibility of lethal outcomes --even if you're not actually trying to kill someone-- is the only way to push for your point of view if others are resisting hard enough.)

Black Spike

But it's hard to imagine anyone writing a game, and not knowing "TPK" ...

BESW

This is largely because TPK is not an original system, it's a re-skin of Dogs in the Vineyard which is deliberately about that kind of authoritarian "are you willing to risk peoples' deaths for your cause" question.

Black Spike

But then, I often despair at people who seem not to have Googled their name/acronym/etc ...

Ah ... DitV, we enjoyed a short game of that ... but I hear it has been "rescinded" (?)

Each of our players had a -very- different approach to DitV ...

Hot RPG Questions

3

Q: How does a cleric's Destroy Undead work in 5e?

Just to make sure this is all RAW: A level 5 Cleric uses it's one channel divinity to cast Turn Undead. The zombies in the area that fail the save are instantly destroyed. The zombies that passed are now turned and will move as far away as possible during their turn. My question is if a higher ...

Black Spike

01:19

@BESW any advice for my homebrew setting? I want it "the same but different" ... familiar, so people can jump in without being disorientated, but uniquely MY setting ...

Bradley Lindsey

02:11

@BlackSpike are you looking for a basic premise of how and where to get the party together? Or more like the initial layout of how the place should look? Because it seems youve got a pretty good set up for the second one. Or more of a basic plotline you can develop?

Xirema

OMG

Our campaign to smuggle tons of weapons to a faction of lizardfolk for the purpose of instigating a war just got derailed because we realized that the textiles on the ship we stole were worth hundreds of gold pieces. 🤣

nitsua60

02:27

@mbork drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?filters=0_2141_100_0_45338 polish-language rule-systems in fantasy genre available on DTRPG... maybe that helps?

@mbork Johnn Four's "Five Room Dungeons" are really nice and easy to grab and mine for a few ideas for simple one-offs. Strolen's Citadel also has millions of user-submitted ingredients, including "simple adventure storyline".

@mbork the last idea I have is that there's a simple system great for story-adventures without combat implied that has some example adventures called Amazing Tales that I just love for that age (and even younger).

Problem, of course, is that it's in English. But if you're willing to translate (as earlier mention makes it seem you are), it's only 15 or 20 pp., if I recall correctly.

Also, I think that either its author or @eimyr, the RPGSE user who pointed me towards this system, speaks Polish. So there might be some proofreading you could get, or the author might be happy to re-publish in Polish with your help?

Yeah, @eimyr's first language is Polish. Might be worth pinging them.

Black Spike

@BradleyLindsey I've got a basic premise (sort of). Looking for ways to develop it. Plot lines. How to build "secrets", "what's -actually- going on, behind the scenes" .. without it being too contrived/stereotyped

@Xirema So you're gonn jack in the whole adventruring malarkey, and become cloth-merchants?

Bradley Lindsey

03:01

@BlackSpike Hmm well if you want I dont mind sound boarding with you. The stories, details, intricacies, and the like is why I started falling in love with RPGs in the first place.

Bradley Lindsey

03:18

Are you running a basic grab bag party type campaign, evil campaign, hero route? And good people in charge, grab bag, or corrupt officials style route?

Xirema

@BlackSpike Apparently!

Bradley Lindsey

04:58

Does anyone know if there is any precedent for a half demon? Or if all half blooded demonics are tiefling?

MikeQ

Depends on the setting

Shalvenay

@BradleyLindsey if you're talking about D&D 5e, look up a cambion in the MM. 3.5e had a variety of half-fiend templates

@BradleyLindsey tieflings tend to be a bit more remote from their fiendish ancestor

Bradley Lindsey

Okay wasnt sure. Was thinking maybe a half balor just to try on for size

Trying 3

.5 half balor half goliath

Shalvenay

ohgosh

Bradley Lindsey

Kinda wanting a dual two handed wielding tank but not too quick and doesnt have to be too bright.

V2Blast

05:21

As a player character?

Well, there's no such official half-demon playable race in 5e

but you could easily reflavor tiefling or another race with your DM's permission

Shalvenay

@V2Blast yeah, he's looking at 3.5e stuff

MikeQ

3.5e has half-everything

Shalvenay

@MikeQ yeup

Bradley Lindsey

That's one of the reasons I like 3.5 so much.

Yuuki

Well, when you say "half-demon", what do you want out of it?

Like, how's your concept of a half-demon different from, say, a tiefling.

Bradley Lindsey

05:29

@Yuuki Honestly the biggest differences I'm looking at would be the four arms str and con.

Yuuki

So you want something with a STR and CON bonus, as opposed to the tiefling's CHA and pick-your-poison bonuses, and four arms.

STR and CON is easy but four arms might be something else. It seems you want four arms so you can dual-wield two-handed weapons, is that right?

Bradley Lindsey

Exactly right. And I like playing front line guys where most tiefling ive seen go the distance and subtle or sneak routes.

As for class I'm thinking my own hybrid of former slave used for gladiator,thug,and well.... he was the slave of a mid level succubus.

Yuuki

Does it matter to you if the two-handed weapon is mechanically a two-handed weapon?

Or could it be a 1d8 longsword that just "looks really big as if it was a two-handed greatsword".

One thing that makes chargen simpler is to figure out which parts of your character have to be mechanics and which parts can be flavor.

Bradley Lindsey

Escaped/freed (working on that), became a drifter because of his now natural distrust of others and his appearance.

Mechanically I'm wanting dual siege axes. And no armor or shields his shields are also his secondary/utility/light weapons. Its chains fused to his arms that he has extremely limited control over. Think Kratos/Spawn arm chains.

As a drifter was eventually picked up by an old dwarf hermit who took pity on him and decided if noon was going to sell him anything worth having he'd teach him to make and fix his own gear.

He was never a master before the old dwarf passed on but he learned enough to fashion simple boots,gloves,hooded jackets,backpacks,shirts,and pants and make or repair simple tools. And how to hunt. Also taught him about the various deities where he found his devotion to Ellistraee even if he will never become a cleric he is a hunter and revels in the pleasures of the flesh as well.

kviiri

06:17

@MikeQ Including half-edition number

BESW

08:48

21

Q: Can I wish for an extra pair of arms (without breaking Wish)?

Ok, I know this is a big spell and I'm not trying to break anything but I've always wondered if I could do this. Remember this is a 9th level spell so by the time this could be cast I don't think it would be too powerful. However, in accordance with the spell description it would have to be word...

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Hot RPG Questions

09:02

4

Q: Can a 1st-level Drow Bard have 3 cantrips total, since they "know" Dancing Lights thanks to their racial trait?

I'm just starting out, and want to play a Drow Bard in D&D 5e. Basically, the wording of the PHB is a bit confusing: Does 'knowing' a cantrip mean you can 'cast' a cantrip for free without a slot (like it states later for Faerie Fire and Darkness) an unlimited number of times? Or does it have...

dnd-5e class-feature spellcasting cantrips

V2Blast

10:36

@kviiri lol

Hot RPG Questions

11:04

1

Q: If an Arcane Archer fighter misses with an Arcane Shot, does that expend a use of the feature?

For example; if a third level Arcane Archer fighter chose to fire a 'Bursting Shot' and missed the target, is one of his uses of the Arcane Shot class feature expended?

dnd-5e class-feature attack fighter

doppelgreener

12:12

@V2Blast the tag is being used with any question in connection with how opportunity actions work. for example, Q: persistent threat and rain of steel is asking about a passive ability that modifies opportunity actions and a passive that connects to opportunity actions, without discussing their triggers or actions directly.

V2Blast

12:29

@doppelgreener I wasn't really asking about how the tag was being used, exactly, moreso confirming my understanding of what the term meant.

And it seems my understanding was (generally) correct. So thanks. :)

KorvinStarmast

@STTLCU Ability checks are not magic spells. For example, if my level 1 halfling rogue wielding a dagger with expertise in Intimidation tries to intimidate an adult blue dragon, it really doesn't matter what the halfling rolls. The dragon ain't impressed. If the DC was 26 ... and I suggest reviewing the DMG discussion on interactions with hostile player characters. (pages 244-246).

@STTLCU Yes, it is reasonable; and i think your DM should have perhaps had you roll with disadvantage if the circumstance was very unfavorable for your group. (DM technique thing, but DM ruling ADV/DISADV is right there in the rules. I have to keep reminding my brother of that when he DMs, he is still stuck on + and - piles from 3.5)

@BESW I love this part of that answer It'd be much more interesting for the PC to get dragged off to the monster's lair / laboratory / tropical resort Two votes for the tropical resort, and the PC being forced to drink Pina Coladas and taking walks in the rain ....

vicky_molokh

@KorvinStarmast Is DC26 generally considered an unremarkable difficulty in AD&D/PF? Asking because there's always a consideration of where the PCs are allowed to display hypercompetence and where they're not. E.g. surely there are non-spell ways to achieve 5+ yards of jump from standing in such systems, and people seem to be accepting of those, so is an outrageous competence at a social skill somehow second-class and not deserving of similar acceptance?

KorvinStarmast

12:44

@vicky_molokh The issue is that the Player is complaining about a high roll not working, without knowing what the DC was that the DM set. The second issue is that the DM had them roll when a conclusion was already foregone, and lastly, third issue, for 5e, if the situation was that unfavorable the roll (if even called for) should have been with disadvantage.

@vicky_molokh The second one is the one that has, in this edition, begun to bug me. I have reduced the number of times I call for a roll and find it liberating. I run into some other DMs who are stuck in the "roll for everything" (combat excluded) trap.

@vicky_molokh for context: in the recent published adventure (Avernus) there is a DC 30 check and the player characters are level 1-4, or 5, when they are first confronted with it.

vicky_molokh

Ah, yeah, giving a chance to roll when the outcome wouldn't change anything can be frustrating.

KorvinStarmast

It took me a while to run the numbers, but, IF the party had a rogue with expertise in that skill/ability, and a cleric or druid casting guidance, and a bard casting inspiration, they could on one check get +1d4 and +1d6 and +6or +7 for expertise and an ability bonus, so there is a possible way to do it with magical help. Unaided, it's impossible.

@MikeQ I tried to start my salt marsh group at level 2, all players who are veterans of multiple editions, and they insisted on starting at level 1. 8^o I think 2 is a fine level to start at.

@MikeQ chase scene, exploration may need a nod ..

@goodguy5 I hope to wait another ten years to find out

@NeutralTax exhaustion rule is a mess. An utter mess. (Recover onshort rest or Lesser restoration would be a start) Mounted combat is a mess. True Strike needs to be overhauled or removed from the game

@nitsua60 all that needs to go away is hexblade. It just needs to die.

@nitsua60 our totem barbarian cast speak with animals as a ritual on Thursday, and it was ultra cool. (Class feature). He got to talk with 8 giant eagles. The rest of us got to watch since we don't speak eagle.

doppelgreener

13:05

@V2Blast oh, gotcha. then it refers either to the action economy element or the moves that consume that element. we call the things that lead to opportunity actions triggers.

KorvinStarmast

@BlackSpike good plan on getting rid of half orc, half elf, halfling, gnome. I already love your world. Suggest home brew gods.

3

A: How to tell potential players to pick up their game

Treat this as an opportunity to grow together as a group. While you are the only experienced player, you will be learning D&D 5e as a group. Together. That can be a lot of fun. I strongly suggest that you let go of your instincts and assumptions from your last edition. Treat this like a new ...

@mbork I have a basic introductory adventure in that answer. Start in town, meet a few people to help her, do two interactions with bandits/culltists, travel to the tower (there is a giant spider in there!) and along the way encounter wolves. (But the wolves need not be combat, maybe feed them and they run off? ) Need not be a D&D game, it's a simple adventure.

@V2Blast yes there is, it's called Tiefling. :p

nitsua60

13:54

@BlackSpike riffing on what @KorvinStarmast just said: I'm always a fan of worldbuilding starting at nothing and making affirmative decisions as to what's in, rather than starting with the books and trying to carve things out. Subtractive sculpting may have worked for Michelangelo's David, but I'm no Michelangelo!

I go through a world-session zero with the group talking about technology level, magic level, societal organization, the presence/importance of gods, cultural parameters, and geography/geology and then we say, "okay, what races/classes make sense to put into this world?"

RedRiderX

16:08

Oh boy this conversation has made me realize I gained a lot of thoughts about world building in the last few months!

If you're aiming for a unique feeling setting I find it helpful to have some themes to guide you.

Themes for me are both aesthetic and philosophical. What does the mood board of this world look like? What are the big questions that players will ask themselves while playing?

For example:

* Aesthetic: Orcs build great long-houses in the woods others fear to enter.
* Philosophical: Why are Orcs so removed from other aspects of society?

Themes may change and shift in play but they're my guiding light as to what's important to flesh out in the world.

@BlackSpike In the small amount of world-building I've done for campaigns I've led, I've tried to work through Themes, then an Elevator Pitch, then Important Details.

For my last campaign some of these themes would be:
* Aesthetic: High-magic New York Noir Thriller (I stole from the Fantastic Beast movies)
* Philosophical: What friction does a have/have-not magic based society create? (also stolen from every Harry Potter book ever)

Because I only want to spend effort on games that will actually be played, I often write an Elevator Pitch that'll send to my group to gauge interest. Usually only a couple paragraphs.

Important Details are things the players will actually see and interact with (Faces, Places). Everything outside of that is haze of vague concepts I can draw from when needed.

I like Fate's methods of incorporating your players in the world building process to provide the colour for your Important Details. But to avoid stumbling through the early steps of that process I use the Elevator Pitch as a strong starting point.

Black Spike

16:39

Thanks for the ideas.
I've made a start, but it's just for kicks. No actual game planned yet, just throwing some ideas I had together into a whole world, rather than have them floating about in my head :)

I've been working on the "civilisation", rather than "monsters", so far. 3 Human Realms, that I'm trying to make distinct, give them each a unique feel.

RedRiderX

17:02

Ah I see.

It sounds like a top down approach would probably be best then if your world building isn't going to be driven from a first person perspective.

I'd still suggest crystallizing your thoughts about factions into strong themes could help you sketch out a framework for you to colour in as your focus dictates.

I get intimidated by the wide ranging possibilities of Tolkiening up my own world, so I like to break it down into more manageable pieces.

Hot RPG Questions

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Q: Can a druid who has pre-cast Alter Self change the appearance of a creature they Wild Shape into?

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Shalvenay

18:05

@Glazius @ACuriousMind -- no game again this week, I'll see about trying to get a dungeon together for you folks in the next week or two tho

Glazius

@Shalvenay Seems like real life has you pretty jammed lately.

Shalvenay

@Glazius just haven't been able to find the mental bandwidth for dungeon design, sadly :/

Glazius

Good luck.

nitsua60

19:52

I'm leaving the house for the day in a couple of minutes. If the OP of the recent Thieves' Guild question pops in, I recommend checking out Strongholds and Followers. And that they chat with any D&D players who refer to levels 9-10 as "name levels." Grognards: amirite?

Black Spike

21:20

I'm starting to sketch out the Realms.
West: Conglomeration of City-States. Boisterous and vibrant. Mixed cultures.
Northern: Strict Monarchy. Elf influences.
Southern: Heavy bureaucracy. Fast paced. Dwarven tech

East: badlands. no civilisation.

RedRiderX

21:54

That sounds like a great starting point

Black Spike

Thanks. I've put a few bits together. I'm finding it difficult to walk the line between completely-stereotyped-and-derivative, and whacko-gonzo!

Black Spike

22:06

And not sure which parts to write next ...

BESW

Always write the bits that are clearest in your mind, or that you're most excited about.

You can always go back and change things later, but that priority is the best way to get something down so you have material to build on or improve.

Black Spike

@BESW True! I am writing quite a bit ... have already altered some.

I've done a lot of the Basics (the stuff I already had in mind). Now I need to expand it ...

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Q: Can Passwall be used to enter an area protected by Forbiddance?

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Someone_Evil

22:27

Hi @Asher, welcome to the rpg.se lair!

V2Blast

@KorvinStarmast Nice. My half-orc totem barb has never really gotten the chance to use those 2 ritual spells in the one campaign I've been able to play him in.

@doppelgreener Makes sense, thanks. I did do a slight edit to the opportunity-actions tag info that I hope made it a bit clearer (to me, anyway). Basically changed "an attack or maneuver that occurs where an entity would have to theoretically let its guard down" to "an attack or maneuver that occurs in a situation in which an entity would have to theoretically let its guard down". Bit wordy, but I'm sure someone can improve it further.

doppelgreener

@V2Blast could also swap "where" out for "when & where"

V2Blast

@KorvinStarmast Aren't they descended from devils, not demons? I already considered that but ruled it out for that reason :P

@doppelgreener My main goal was to make it clear that the term referred to the action happening in response to "an entity letting its guard down", not to "an entity letting its guard down" itself. "When" on its own could maybe work? Alternately, it could be "occurs in response to an entity letting its guard down", which also avoids the wordiness of "an entity would have to theoretically let its guard down", but I don't know if that changes the meaning/is inaccurate.

doppelgreener

I was never confused by it, personally

It's clear, I know what it means, and others who have played 4e will know what it means or, if they have somehow never seen an opportunity action, they will find out

@V2Blast Does the D&D 5e Tiefling race get actually explicit that they're descended from devils? I thought in Faerun they were merely descended from "fiends", which included demons and devils alike

In 4e, they're descended from the people of an empire that made an infernal pact to protect itself, but the nature of 4e lore is that history is not clear and has multiple competing contradictory tellings. We don't know exactly what the infernal pact was about or whom it was with.

V2Blast

@doppelgreener Specifically: "a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus—overlord of the Nine Hells—into their bloodline"

and it refers to their "infernal bloodline"

doppelgreener

22:40

Aahh

V2Blast

not to mention them speaking Infernal and not Abyssal :P

doppelgreener

cool, the "most likely" version of the 4e story involves devils too

after all, they are the ones you can more reliably make pacts with

TIL D&D 3e had some specifically half-demon races

V2Blast

> [...] the archdevil claimed all tieflings in the world as his own, cursing them to bear “the blood of Asmodeus.” This act marked all tieflings as “descendants” of the Lord of the Nine Hells, regardless of their true heritage, and changed them into creatures that resembled their supposed progenitor. The other folk of Faerûn, unnerved by the appearance of these devil-beings, became suspicious of all tieflings and occasionally hostile to them.

I'm not surprised

from what I hear, 3e had everything

:P

also:

> Since the ritual that spread the curse of Asmodeus a century ago, tieflings have been born on Faerûn that belong to other infernal bloodlines, but those that bear the mark of the archdevil (and their descendants) remain the most numerous examples of their kind by far.

doppelgreener

oh right that was earlier lol

17 hours ago, by MikeQ

3.5e has half-everything

V2Blast

so even the non-Asmodeus tieflings (like the Zariel tiefling I'm trying to figure out the details of for this Descent into Avernus campaign) are descended from/touched by other devils, not demons

haha yeah

16 hours ago, by kviiri

@MikeQ Including half-edition number

Carcer

22:42

I'm not super keen on FR retconning stuff to make the non-specific generic fluff suddenly apply to the Realms setting

V2Blast

I starred that one

though it makes less sense without context

:P

doppelgreener

@V2Blast does infernal specifically mean devils here?

Carcer

yes

V2Blast

@doppelgreener In the context of D&D, yes

Carcer

infernal is the language of lawful evil outsiders

doppelgreener

22:43

i presume demonic bloodlines would be abyssal bloodlines then?

Carcer

yes.

doppelgreener

gotcha

TIL

Carcer

I dislike the whole racial history of tieflings thing intensely

V2Blast

also, I just noticed that SCAG has a small sidebar at the end of the races chapter (where tieflings are last) that mentions aasimar being their "celestial opposites". but since it came out before Volo's, it directs people to the DMG version

> The celestial opposites of the tieflings, aasimar are descended from humans of celestial heritage. Aasimar aren’t as prevalent in the Realms as tieflings, but common enough that some become adventurers. Dungeon Masters who want to allow their players to create aasimar characters can find rules for doing so in the Dungeon Master’s Guide.

doppelgreener

@Carcer i liked the version from 4e!

Carcer

22:45

(also dislike that tieflings became one of the "standard" playable races without aasimar)

V2Blast

@Carcer you mentioned "FR retconning stuff to make the non-specific generic fluff suddenly apply to the Realms setting". I assume you mean that tieflings were sort of "descended from devils" in general across settings/in a non-setting specific way in previous editions, whereas the 5e book says it's specifically because of a historic pact between Asmodeus and the Toril Thirteen during the Spellplague?

Carcer

tieflings weren't even specifically descended from devils, they just had fiendish ancestry somewhere back

V2Blast

ah

Carcer

could be demons, whatever, certainly not any kind of unified people

doppelgreener

i liked it especially in the lens of how 4e handles its lore: historical records are sketchy. the story told about tieflings emerging from Bael Turath after its people made a desperate pact could be mostly true, or could be a very inaccurate story that approximates the truth, or could be outright propaganda made to justify prejudice against tieflings. Nobody can know for sure. The one thing it definitely isn't is 100% accurate and encyclopedic.

Black Spike

22:48

@doppelgreener I always like that kind of Story :)

In the Setting I am writing, I am trying to keep that sort of feel, using phrases such as "It is told that ..." , "Seers reckon that ...", "Opinion varies to the exact details ..."

doppelgreener

D&D 4e maintained that really well by most major world lore sections also having a sidebar saying more or less "At least, that's what most people believe. Some people say..." (and then it offers two or three contradictory accounts)

Black Spike

If the Setting states something as FACT, then you can be pretty certain that it isn't :)

doppelgreener

Hehehehehe

Carcer

I mean, it's fine if some tieflings are because of some ancient pact with Asmodeus or whatever. I just take issue with repurposing the race entirely.

Black Spike

"Every one knows that ..."
"Common Wisdom says ..."

V2Blast

22:51

true

and of course any DM can house-rule otherwise (and for homebrew non-FR settings the lore is necessarily different), but I can see it being annoying for the book to just say "it is this way because of a thing in FR lore" and nothing more

unrelated:

6

Q: Save a dying PC without being too obvious

In my last session a PC left the party and engaged a one-to-eight fight. He is dying alone in an isolated place without many chances of becoming stable and the other players will probably need some hours to find him. He actully did some stupid things despite my warnings about the danger, but he ...

gm-techniques system-agnostic character-death

This question is tagged as system-agnostic. I've already left a comment to this effect, but it feels very... un-agnostic. It's seemingly about a specific situation in a specific system (which I'd guess is some edition of D&D).

Carcer

yeah I don't think that question should be system-agnostic

KorvinStarmast

@V2Blast Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time seeing tieflings as a valid place in the world unless the setting is planescape. I maybe got etched by mye few adventures in that setting kinda hard

V2Blast

@Carcer Yeah. There might be a way to approach the broader issue in a system-agnostic way, but that particular problem definitely seems system-specific

@KorvinStarmast You mean you have a hard time seeing them as fitting into the setting/being setting-appropriate (outside of Planescape)? Why's that?

Black Spike

@KorvinStarmast Very much depends ... in a setting that has 1/2-orcs, minotaurs, troll-kin, dragon-born, war-forged et al, what's the problem with fiend-folk?

Carcer

@V2Blast Planescape posits a setting where that kind of consorting between fiends and mortals is more plausible

V2Blast

22:57

Ah

Black Spike

Necromancers, Liches, Dark Priests, Wizards of Ill-Repute ... or just 'mundane folk' trying to find a better life ... plenty of opportunities in a "traditional D&D-type" world (e.g. FR) for consorting with fiends

KorvinStarmast

@V2Blast Probably due to the break in play between when I played Plane scape and then began playing d&d years later. And, in the interim, I think I just never "felt" a tiefling thing.

Carcer

@BlackSpike yeah, but Planescape introduced Tieflings (I think) and is a setting where your neighbour might just be a devil who's on shore leave from the blood war

KorvinStarmast

@V2Blast It's like eating cilantro; I don't

@BlackSpike Fiend, I think, is the problem

Black Spike

@Carcer I can see how importing them whole-cloth from planescape might be problematic. I don't know PS.

I've never understood why people love tieflings so much.

@KorvinStarmast How so? Not fitting a Setting, or an OOC thing?

Carcer

23:05

@BlackSpike have you ever met a thirteen-year-old on deviantart?

doppelgreener

Apr 10 '18 at 13:13, by BESW

(I'm fond of the notion that humans are a dwarf/elf mix, but neither dwarves nor elves are willing to talk about it.)

V2Blast

@BlackSpike I suppose Korvin just has a sense of fiends as "outsiders"/"from another plane", and therefore they shouldn't be as common in Faerun/Abeir-Toril as they are?

Carcer

the whole "descended from demons, dealing with my dark nature" thing is like pure crack to a specific population of edgy teens

Black Spike

@Carcer I try not to trawl DA ...

@Carcer true. I keep forgetting to remember who I was all those years ago :)

doppelgreener

i've played as a tiefling twice now in D&D 4e, i just think they look super cool

plus they go so well with the warlock class

Carcer

23:07

@doppelgreener no you don't. Secretly you crave the darkest edges, admit it to yourself

Black Spike

@V2Blast I think they should be quite rare indeed ... but PCs are exceptions ...

V2Blast

I made a tiefling Pact of the Tome Fiend-patron warlock (with Pazuzu as his patron) for a West Marches game that I'm now playing in Curse of Strahd

doppelgreener

@Carcer i mean getting to be a horned demon type character is also great

Carcer

also tieflings have a built in social outcast thing going on, which tends to appeal strongly to people who were social outcasts growing up, and some people who just really love making characters that don't fit in to society

Black Spike

Back when I played D&D, you could be a dwarf. Or an elf. Or a halfling.

Carcer

23:08

see: every character my husband has ever made

doppelgreener

that's part of why they're cool

Carcer

see? you love the edge.

doppelgreener

@Carcer [visibly sweating]

V2Blast

was struggling to pick a race for the Descent into Avernus campaign I just joined - eladrin elf Glamour bard was the first thought, but another player was already making one of those exactly, so it was between Zariel tiefling and scourge aasimar for me. And another player is already playing an aasimar too, so Zariel tiefling seems more unique

hahahaha

Black Spike

@Carcer social outcasts ... with the power to destroy!!!

doppelgreener

23:09

wait. isn't that like. a thing for most D&D players? most of us have identified with the social outcast thing.

Carcer

@BlackSpike yeah, exactly, outcast power fantasy.

@doppelgreener hence why tieflings are so popular

doppelgreener

good catch

V2Blast

@doppelgreener well, kinda, yeah. that's probably part of why tieflings are so popular. tief warlocks especially. it's very much a trope/cliche at this point

haha

Black Spike

fair enough

V2Blast

Carcer beat me to it

Black Spike

23:10

tiefling bard? does that work?

doppelgreener

yes

absolutely

Carcer

tieflings can do anything, don't be prejudiced

doppelgreener

i mean, pick any race+class combination that at first seems absurd and if you think about it, it's probably actually awesome

tiefling paladin. gnome barbarian. goliath wizard.

Black Spike

I played an Orc magician in Rolemaster (bu they did have the Grey Orc sub-race who specialise in magicks)

V2Blast

@BlackSpike tieflings get +2 Cha and +1 to another stat (the secondary stat, as well as the couple of racial spells, varies depending on whether you pick PHB tiefling or one of the variants in MTOF).

so they're good for any Charisma-based class

Carcer

23:14

@doppelgreener odd combos are certainly more viable in editions now that generally don't have ability score penalties

doppelgreener

take them and use them in other fantasy games that aren't D&D, even; ones where the concept of certain class/race combos fitting together better mechanically than others isn't even a thing

V2Blast

also true. as of E:RFTLW, kobolds are the only 5e race whose only official version has stat penalties.

Shalvenay

@doppelgreener gnome paladin. half-orc sorcerer. dwarf druid. XD

V2Blast

(since E:RftLW added an orc variant without penalties)

@Shalvenay I did a hill dwarf moon druid for my short-lived SKT campaign

Shalvenay

@V2Blast XD

doppelgreener

23:17

@Shalvenay dwarf druid is great. because even if they stereotypically spend most of their time underground in tunnels, there's still a lot of nature to commune with there. nature isn't just plants; the earth is nature too!

and even underground there are ecosystems of plants and animals.

Carcer

@V2Blast huh, Eberron orc is just straight up superior to VGtM orc

... but still inferior to half-orc

V2Blast

ye

Shalvenay

yeah, if I want an 'orc' statblock, I just use the stock PHB half-orc

Black Spike

@V2Blast aha. So social Outcast power fantasy/social fantasy :)

Dwarf Druid sounds good!

Carcer

@V2Blast I admit this makes more sense than it did in prior editions

this is one of the things that bugged me about 3e. Tieflings have the lineage of powerful magical beings in them! But they're less charismatic because nobody likes them, so they're not as good at innate magic.

Black Spike

23:23

@Carcer I suppose one could rewrite things so that "innate magic" is actually based upon one social acceptance. Ones "link with other people", "tapping into the shared subconcious"

Medix2

I've just realized both resistance and damage-resistance exist and I'm thoroughly confused

Especially since the tag description for resistance states: "For questions primarily pertaining to creatures, player characters, and NPCs being less susceptible to one or more particular effects or damage types in an RPG."

doppelgreener

hmmmmmm

Black Spike

@Medix2 "Resistance" is "effects or damage types", not just "damage types" ?

Someone_Evil

Deja vu

doppelgreener

yeah like there's spell resistance for example which makes you better at resisting spells without doing anything to damage

Medix2

23:29

@BlackSpike So then wouldn't damage-resistance questions want both tags? Which seems... redundant at best?

Someone_Evil

5

Q: What's the difference between the [damage-resistance], [spell-resistance], and [resistance] tags?

Related meta: Merge [resistance] into [damage-resistance]? There seem to be three closely related tags on RPG.SE at the moment: damage-resistance, spell-resistance, and resistance. However, at the moment, it's not clear what exactly the difference is, or when each tag should be applied. The l...

discussion tags

doppelgreener

but that is concerning

Carcer

I'm not sure that those tags are practically useful.

doppelgreener

realistically there's multiple things called resistance which have nothing to do with each toher

Someone_Evil

Dec 22 '19 at 11:38, by Medix2

I've just noticed both the resistance and damage-resistance tags exist. I'm just a bit confused as to why?

doppelgreener

23:31

but they are all called resistance

Medix2

@Someone_Evil Welp... Guess I have the memory of a goldfish

trogdor

Just love the resilient clutter in D&D, just love it XD

Black Spike

Hey, @Medix2, have you noticed that both resistance and damage-resistance tags exist? Look sconfusing to me

Medix2

No, tell me more

trogdor

Lol

Someone_Evil

23:35

Mythbusters: Goldfish Memory

►

Medix2

Let me use my scientifically inaccurate statements dammit

trogdor

23:53

Yeah it seems like they would have gone extinct a long time ago if they couldn't remember anything for more than 3 seconds

Black Spike

@trogdor Yes, but can they remember the difference between resistance and damage-resistance?

V2Blast

@doppelgreener Yeah, this is one of the reasons I think tags should be used to group connected concepts together rather than just grouping together anything in any RPG that happens to share that name

Related meta where that came up:

5

Q: Should the [astral] tag be renamed to [astral-plane]?

This seems like a pretty straightforward suggestion. The astral tag is currently used on just 5 questions, four of them about D&D 5e and one about 3.5e. In addition, all 5 questions are specifically about the Astral Plane. (There are quite a few other questions about the Astral Plane that don't ...

discussion tags rename-request

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