TRPG General Chat

Gwideon

18:00

oh um

@NautArch drive.google.com/file/d/10Dph7xgzJ_Px2iNxbkoYacBHR8z28GBA/…

um there it is in mp4

anyways um it's nothing super impressive so um yeah

NautArch

@Gwideon not bad!

Gwideon

thanks

NautArch

survivor's guilt is no joke

Gwideon

Oh I need to ping Ash

they wanted to see it

@Ash the animation is done

I'll get it uploaded to youtube when I get home

J. Wagner

NautArch

Gwideon

18:13

@NautArch also um yeah that is true

J. Wagner

you said you could help narrow down my other half of my question about the sniper rogue build

NautArch

@J.Wagner howdy!

Definitely, I was hoping to find a similar question here, but those questions on most damage often go in weird directions without limits. Like this...you'll need a trebuchet..

But ultimately, @J.Wagner, are you looking for high nova damage that isn't repeatable, or a more consistent damage build?

J. Wagner

@NautArch So what limitations would you put on a question like that?

Im wanting a consistent build for prolongued fights i guess

NautArch

@J.Wagner Nova damage vs consistent, Martial ranged vs magical ranged, what external buffs are available, any requirements on time to set up, any requirements on 3rd party buffs

J. Wagner

let's assume the party isn't involved at all. If i was a lone player (im not, but still for ease), what would be the best damage output build for a consistent damage bow sniper

NautArch

18:17

These can be tough to ask here, and often better to resolve in here or on an external forum.

@J.Wagner The reason I ask about martial vs magical is that you may be better served by being an arcane sniper

But if you want martial, then that's totally fine

J. Wagner

martial yes

NautArch

and single-class preferred or multiclass optional? Any limitations on sources?

J. Wagner

multi-class is comlpetely fine, single class is fine, idc which other class combos are used

i just did fighter/rogue because i thought it worked for what i wanted

NautArch

@J.Wagner All source materials legal? (eberron, ravnica, etc.?)

unearthed arcana?

Gwideon

Arcane archers don't have to deal with resistance to nonmagical weapons if I remember correctly. Also all of their arrows are really useful and you don't really have to deal with spells. It's still a martial class and isn't considered a caster

NautArch

18:19

@J.Wagner Do you start off with any magical items?

Gwideon

sorry

Xirema

Clearly, the best sniper in 5e is just an Evocation Wizard casting spells. If anyone challenges them, they'll just throw a fireball at them. Who's going to challenge them on their claim?

NautArch

@J.Wagner And what distance doyou want to be at normally? Sniping from a big distance is possible, but in reality it may not be viable if your battlemap/theatre of the mind doesn't support being that far away.

Gwideon

true.

Xirema

> Nobleman: "That's not a sniper, that's a Wiz—augh!"

Wizard: "NoScope'd."

Gwideon

18:23

SNIPER!!!

I do have a thought. how would someone make reaper from overwatch in dnd

NautArch

@J.Wagner I know i'm throwing a lot at you, but you'l get a much better answer if you can include all this when you ask :)

J. Wagner

sorry dealing with work stuff atm

no magical items

distance wouldnt really matter, just however far i can see them id like to pop htem. In combat distance is just hte back of the room

NautArch

@J.Wagner Okay, just thinking about potential solutions around that. I think most people think "sniper", but really you just want most effective ranged martial. Although not having access to magic weapons at level 12 is going to be problematic for the whole group.

Will there be an opportunity to get them, or should the build assume no magical items to start with or to get?

J. Wagner

its just a one shot, so i will not have those opportunities. However i plan to use him for more One shots in the future

we break up the main campaign with the one shots every now and then when theres a good break

just the best base build i guess

NautArch

Well, considering builds that somehow grant magical damage is a big deal, as you will quite likely be fighting monsters with resistance to mundane damage. Not having magical damage will literally cut your damage in half.

J. Wagner

18:38

dang

Gwideon

@J.Wagner For a ranged martial class that deals magical damage you best bet is honestly arcane archer. A revised ranger might also be a good choice.

NautArch

@J.Wagner Not sure if you still want to ask, but I'll help you put together the quesiton. Just the last bit on source material. EVerything official published (including eberron/ravnica, etc) and whether or not unearthed arcana is usable.

But ultimately, you're probably looking for some sort of build that involves sharpshooter and something that will allow you the most attacks to stack the multiple -5/+10 damages. And something to make those attacks magical.

J. Wagner

actually i think that answers my question enough to tweak the build

NautArch

@J.Wagner I'd seriously consider a hand-crossbow build with Sharpshooter and Crossbow expert.

J. Wagner

w/o magic just focus on using sharpshooter and attacking as many times as possible to use it, so ill tweak the build around that

NautArch

18:46

Being a Kensei monk would turn the attacks magical

Trying to figure out if there's a way to go Fighter so that you've got 2 Extra attacks plus your bonus action attack from xbow expert AND turn those into magical damage.

J. Wagner

i mean i could try 3 classes, but at lvl 12 would it be spread too thin

depends on how much rogue i need for sneak attacks, fighter has to be 5

and how much monk is needed for Kinsei to help

NautArch

@J.Wagner Well, fighter would net you a consistent 4 attacks/turn. If you hit on all with sharpshooter, that's a strong base of consistent damage - but the problem is in making it magical.

nitsua60

@NautArch No magical damage is going to be rough on just fighter, rogue, and certain barbarian and monk paths, right? Like, they shouldn't be played, period. (Coming late to the conversation with only half my attention....)

NautArch

@J.Wagner You still need to get advantage or utilize another method to get your sneak attack. It's not always-on.

Someone_Evil

@NautArch 1 level into Forge Cleric would do that, no?

Gwideon

18:50

Rogue gets sneak attack at first level though it's only like 1d6

nitsua60

@NautArch Swashbuckler!

David Coffron

@NautArch ~~If you go full fighter, you can just grab Magic Initiate with one of your many ASIs for the magic weapon spell~~

NautArch

@nitsua60 Yup, if you're trying to optimize

J. Wagner

swashbuckler?

NautArch

@DavidCoffron good for one combat only, though

nitsua60

18:50

@J.Wagner F3/Ro9, battlemaster. Precision and distracting.

@J.Wagner They get a couple more paths toward sneak attack.

NautArch

@nitsua60 You lose the extra attacks though

Gwideon

@J.Wagner a xanathar's guide rogue subclass

David Coffron

@NautArch Good for one hour* that's decent uptime. Depends on the campaign whether the majority of daily combats happen within an hour

nitsua60

"Rakish Audacity" or "Charming Mustache-ery" or something like that.

David Coffron

But its second level anyway. nvm

nitsua60

18:52

@NautArch Yeah, actually F5/Ro7 grabs action surge, BM dice, extra attack, and 4d6 SA?

J. Wagner

i like the swashbuckler sneak attack criteria

no one within 5' of you is what i plan on going on

NautArch

@Someone_Evil @J.Wagner oooh! Cleric1(forge)/Fighter11(battlemaster) gives you a LOT of options. Magical weapon creation and then you can cast bless to help improve your to-hit chance with sharpshooter.

Someone_Evil

More folks with a healing spell in their pocket is never a bad thing

NautArch

@J.Wagner What's the sneak attack dice on that? The fighter build will net you a minimum (assuming you hit on all attacks) of 40+Dex modx4

David Coffron

There's also straight Fighter with Eldritch Knight. Then you really can use magic weapon often enough for it to be worth it

J. Wagner

18:54

might look at teh forge cleric/ battlemaster option

NautArch

@DavidCoffron Magic Initiate won't do magic weapon, and neither will Eldritch knight. It's a 2nd level transmutation spell.

MI is only 1st level spells and EK is only evocation/abjuration from the wizard list

Someone_Evil

@NautArch EK gets a small number from any school, one or two at that level I think

J. Wagner

awesome, well i think i got what i needed. Thank you NautArch and everyone else for your input. Much appreciated, have a great rest your day and happy D&Ding!

David Coffron

@NautArch You get other spells at a couple levels as an Eldritch Knight

> The spells you learn at 8th, 14th, and 20th level can come from any school of magic.

NautArch

@J.Wagner here's a quick build. Had started this off as a paladin/fighter, but was also leaning cleric. Adjusted this to match yours, but it's just for 10th level, so you'd be able to change this up for fighter 11/Cleric 1.

David Coffron

18:59

So your 8th level spell could be magic weapon

nitsua60

@NautArch That's true. Use the attacks magical weaponed, and a bonus action healing word or two can be pretty impactful.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron ah, missed that! I still think the battlemaster/cleric provides an easier pathway. They get the magic at no cost, they get bless, and they get healing.

David Coffron

@NautArch Agreed

nitsua60

@NautArch I did something similar with a BM/rogue grabbing Magic Initiate.

David Coffron

You also get guidance as a cleric, which is real nice out-of-combat

nitsua60

19:01

(not for a one-shot--for all of Storm King's Thunder)

NautArch

@nitsua60 I'm super-bummed the one-shot I built that paladin/battlemaster for didn't happen.

David Coffron

Is Eldritch Strike as bad as it reads?

> At 10th level, you learn how to make your weapon strikes undercut a creature’s resistance to your spells. When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, that creature has disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn.

You just have such weak spells, it seems like a very weak feature.

Like before epic tier, your best bet is Fighter 10/Caster 4-5, but even then it's just 4th level spells

nitsua60

@J.Wagner Whichever cleric domain gets War Priest (war, I suppose?) is a nice complement to battle master, too. Some bonus action full attacks, channel divinity +10 atk.

NautArch

@nitsua60 but then you miss out on turning your weapon magical

and whammo, there goes half your damage

David Coffron

There's also the possibility that one of your colleagues will have the magic weapon spell for those resistant opponents

NautArch

19:05

@DavidCoffron build reco was to not require colleague assistance

David Coffron

@NautArch Ah. missed that

nitsua60

@NautArch War priest can't take magic weapon?

(I'm afb and proctoring a test....)

NautArch

@nitsua60 Oh, they can! But can't also have bless to mitigate the -5 on sharpshooter

David Coffron

@nitsua60 They also require all 3 levels to get the spell (since its a 2nd level transmutation spell) whereas the Forge cleric can use their Blessing of the Forge to make a magic weapon at level 1

NautArch

@J.Wagner I updated that link for the character to be the Cleric1/Battlemaster11

nitsua60

19:18

@DavidCoffron Aaaaaahhh. Gotcha.

I guess the notion of playing a L12 who ~~can't~~ doesn't have magic weapons does really incentivize the character who can make a concentration-free magic weapon at level 1 =)

NautArch

@nitsua60 yeah. I'd very much request to the DM that they allow some magical item choices.

To not have any magic items at level 12 is a very low-magic world.

nitsua60

Gave my son a lucky (long)sword as a L1 high elf wizard soloing a campaign.

It allows one luck die on an attack or save (if being wielded) per short rest.

NautArch

@nitsua60 bladesinger?

nitsua60

@NautArch Nope. Just a wizard.

(High elf gets the elven weapon training.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 heh, just looked that up :P Haven't played a full elf before.

well, since AD&D

I bought that Elves book for a reason!

nitsua60

19:22

@NautArch It's surprisingly thematic: full caster, with longsword and longbow proficiency. It's not going to keep up with a martial, but it's not far off from an old-school elf-as-class feel.

@NautArch I just re-bought that book!

NautArch

@nitsua60 from JohnP?

nitsua60

Yup.

NautArch

hehe

I've got to see if I've still got it

I know one of the other guys at my table has it

nitsua60

I'm pretty sure I'm part of what's wrong with the modern economy. After a year and a half of fighting with the federal gov't over 5-figure number I claim they have wrong, I won last month. And so I treated myself to re-buying a dozen books I owned in the 90s and which I'll open only nostalgically....

(And I paid off my truck loan.)

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I'm not sure there aren't rules around fallen clerics. But I may be making that up :) Our cleric did some naughty stuff and I have a vague recollection about some rules around that, but those may have just been internet searches.

Weird, I think someone in my chatizen dndbeyond just bought the Italian version of the PHB.

KorvinStarmast

19:52

@NautArch there are non in 5e

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast must have been random internet searches then

and older editions or something

The DM miraculously didn't actual punish them, but we as a table definitely looked up what would need to happen to fix it

but in this case, it seems like the player no longer wants to be a cleric, which changes the calculus

Gwideon

hey

Xirema

> Unearthed Arcana is back with one or more class feature variants for every class in the D&D Player's Handbook! Explore the new options here: dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/… #DnD — Jeremy Crawford

@Gwideon Howdy!

Gwideon

how is everyone

Xirema

@Gwideon I was having a dull day, until that UA got posted. Am now very spooked, in an unseasonal manner.

Gwideon

19:59

noice. I'm just gonna wait for the Davvy Chappy video

Yuuki

> You can expend a use of your Channel Divinity to fuel your spells. As a bonus action, you touch your holy symbol, utter a prayer, and regain one expended 1st-level spell slot.

hmm

Seems like a useful buff for subclasses with sub-par Channels Divinity.

Gwideon

I am feeling a little sick

NautArch

Votes to reopen? I think this is an okay question that isn't PoB.

Xirema

Hmm. I don't like that they took some of the Paladin-exclusive aura spells and additionally gave them to the Cleric and Druid. Like, the Cleric I sort of understand, and the Druid is only getting one of them, but the one the Druid is getting is just the less useful version of Healing Spirit, so I don't know why they need Aura of Vitality as well.

NautArch

@Xirema always frustrates me when non-paladin classes get paladin (or paladin-like) spells because they get them much earlier usually.

Oh, that shiny toy that was exclusive to you? Yeah, this other class gets it. And significantly sooner.

@goodguy5 Yargh! Now I've got that song stuck in my head.

goodguy5

20:05

hahahaha

Gwideon

@Xirema I'm fine with it. then again I might be a bit biased as I don't really like Paladins

goodguy5

the beats were perfect!

Xirema

> Quickened Healing As an action, you can spend 2 Ki points and roll a Martial Arts die. You regain a number of hit points equal to the number rolled.

NautArch

@Gwideon them's fighting words

Xirema

Some nice buffs for monks.

Rubiksmoose

20:06

@NautArch [cough] bard [cough]

NautArch

^Spent 5 years playing a paladin

@Rubiksmoose yeah, but that's a choice they make. Things like destructive wave being given to Tempest Clerics is what i'm thinking of. The bard has expend a limited resource to 'steal' that secret. Every tempest cleric gets destructive wave.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Ah gotcha. That does make sense

Gwideon

@NautArch what I don't like how some people play their paladins. I feel the paladin class can encourage bad roleplaying behavior by having paladin's stick their noses into other players business a little two often.

Xirema

Oh wow, they gave cantrips to Paladins and Rangers. O_O

Gwideon

YES!!!

NautArch

20:08

@Gwideon 5e Paladins are different. The lawful stupid trope is definitely no longer there.

Xirema

@NautArch Even then, I'm generally okay with subclasses giving exclusive spells on the condition that they're thematically appropriate.

Gwideon

It doesn't help that I'm playing in a group with a really stupid paladin.

Xirema

A LOT of Ranger changes as well. Seems like Revised Ranger 2.0.

NautArch

@Xirema Ooh, neat. That's definitely a consideration when picking your fighting style. ANd a good trade-off. But I think most would likely pick it. Having a ranged option is massive for apaladin.

Gwideon

@Xirema also I'm really happy that rangers are getting buffs. even with the revised ranger they needed a bit more

NautArch

20:10

@Xirema Yeah, i'm still not really on board with that. When a certain class has a spell no other class has access to, but then they create a subclass the gives access to it so much earlier, it's really frustrating to be a member of that exclusive class.

Thematically appropriate at least makes sense, but not at the expense of the class it's supposed to go with.

Or at least shift the spell option to the level when the exclusive class gets it.

Xirema

@NautArch Paladin stuff definitely frustrates me the most.

You'll never hear me complaining if a Wizard-exclusive spell shows up on someone else's spell list.

Gwideon

@NautArch that is true but I think it's okay as long as the subclass option doesn't have as much potential as the exclusive option.

NautArch

@Xirema Yeah, I don't think i'd complain there. But they'd also have access at the same point. IT's the access point disparity that I have a problem with.

Xirema

@NautArch Yeah, that is a bigger issue.

NautArch

@Gwideon It has MORE. The tempest clericcan use a channel divinity to maximize the damage.

Gwideon

20:12

though I can definitely see why it would be frustrating

Xirema

So it appears they gave all the memorized spellcasters the ability to change one spell per long rest.

Gwideon

oh wow that's... stupid

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch vote done

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast grazie.

I mean, I tried to make a clear comment, and the current answer also provides support. So i'm not sure what the problem is.

Xirema

@Gwideon Yeah, sharing Paladin or Ranger exclusive spells with other classes can be an issue in the way that it's simply not for other class-exclusive spells.

Gwideon

20:13

anyways I can't read the new unearthed arcana so I don't know all of the context

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Because we Tempest Clerics are Awesome. (My second PC was a Tempest cleric, loved him! )

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast They are :) Ours was really powerful. ALthough I kinda liked our Light cleric more.

Especially that corona of light when it comes online.

KorvinStarmast

I have just decided that my next tempest cleric will be female, and I'll name her Stor Meedanyuls

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast bahahahahaah

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Those are the ones that can thunder or electrocute the attacker when they get hit with a melee attack?

Gwideon

20:15

I'm honestly just happy cause I love my ranger. I think I need to remake her soon with the new changes.

Xirema

Huh. A few new Sorcerer Metamagic options, one of which is (what most of us probably expected to show up) in the "if a spell deals Fire, Cold, Acid, Lightning, or Thunder Damage, spend 1 Sorcery point to change it to one of those other types".

Gwideon

I hated that 5e rangers where underpowered

GcL

@Xirema Thunderball!

Xirema

I still think my "Reversed Spell" metamagic is cooler, but I'm guessing this is generally a better-balanced metamagic.

NautArch

@Gwideon I honestly haven't really seen that.

GcL

20:16

@Gwideon Which was payback from them being OP in early editions. Sins of the ~~father~~ writers

NautArch

They are consistent damage dealing machines

Gwideon

@NautArch True but alot of their vanilla features where so situational to be borderline useless. also Beast master was really bad.

Xirema

New Warlock Pact Boon: Pact of the Talisman. Adds 1d4 to any ability check you make that doesn't have proficiency added, can be given to other characters to receive the same benefits. Can be upgraded using Invocations to apply to Saving Throws, and to give a long-range (within the same plane) teleportation ability.

Gwideon

If you wanted to play a vanilla ranger the only viable option was the Hunter.

NautArch

@Gwideon Beast master's action economy is bad, but the hunter really isn't. I do think some of the stuff is too situational, but if you open up like the revised did, it's actually too convenient.

Gwideon

20:19

@NautArch True but I think they should reduce the power of those if they open them up

NautArch

@Gwideon True. But the PHB only gave two options. ANd one wasn't great. The other very much was pretty good.

Xirema

Eldritch Armor invocation to allow Heavy Armor wearing Warlocks.

NautArch

And the additional subclasses they've added are pretty cool. Right @KorvinStarmast?

Gwideon

i'd rather have a useful thing I can use alot then a powerful thing that I can barely use

NautArch

@Gwideon I'm not sure I understand. A lot of subclasses (and primary class) features are powerful things you can barely use.

user15026

20:22

@Gwideon I'm looking forward to seeing it!

KorvinStarmast

@GcL Yes, that's the one. :)

@NautArch Which additional sub classes? The new UA, or something else? I think I missed part of this discussion

Gwideon

@NautArch Let's take favored terrain as an example. Depending on the campaign It can be completely and utterly useless, and this is supposed to be one of ranger's big things. I would rather have something that Is consistently useful as one of ranger's big things than something that can rendered completely useless

now don't get me wrong Favored terrain can be supremely powerful when you can use it

KorvinStarmast

@Gwideon In ToA, my ranger skill with survival in forests kept us from getting lost in Chult. A lot. Great sub class feature.

My favored enemy, giants, payed off big time: we negotiated a deal with some frost giants who were out of our league. Because I speak giant.

Gwideon

@KorvinStarmast but say you pick forest and the entire campaign takes place in a desert. you don't get to use it at all

Yuuki

@Gwideon Like "use Channel Divinity to recover a 1st-level spell slot" vs. "use Channel Divinity to control X undead"?

KorvinStarmast

20:32

@Gwideon I tend to do a little discussion with a DM about the campaign world before I pick a PC. That's how I roll. In most campaigns I have been in, those which lasted more than Tier 1 play we ended up in a variety of different terrain as our adventures progressed.

Gwideon

@Yuuki Yes exactly. I'd rather have something that is generally useful rather than situationally useful. I'm fine with those situational things existing but I don't want them to be the core of the class.

Yuuki

The UA enhancement is interesting because it allows you to keep the situational use of whatever Channel Divinity you have for your domain, but also gives you a backup generic Channel Divinity use (spell recovery).

Gwideon

@KorvinStarmast true but alot of campaigns don't and it still doesn't mitigate the fact that much of the time one of ranger's core features is completely useless

Yuuki

So best of both worlds?

Gwideon

That is interesting.

GcL

20:35

@Gwideon I would have fun with that. The character constantly regailing the party with how awesome their favored terrain is and all the stuff they could do... "well, this totally works up on the mountain" and "Back home on the mountain..."

TRiG

> @TRiG I've seen the film and read the play; both are superb in their own way, but I dearly wish to see the play performed.

Ditto, now, these many years later.

Gwideon

@GcL it is true that it can be an interesting thing for roleplaying but um yeah

I think I've made my point so i won't press it any further

GcL

@Gwideon which would be great for a role playing game

Yuuki

One thing I had thought about was making the ranger's favored terrain malleable. You have a fixed favored terrain that you choose at the beginning. You get strong bonuses to this particular terrain. But you also get a "flexible" terrain slot. You'd be able to spend some period of time to attune yourself to a new terrain. You get fewer/weaker bonuses to this flexible terrain, which would increase as you level until it matches the fixed terrain.

Gwideon

@Gcl yes but all i'm arguing for is to offer another more general option for a class that desperately needs a buff to it's core abilities.

Xirema

20:39

Alright, I've scanned through the whole thing. Main interesting features:

* Memorized Spellcasters can change 1 spell per long rest (must be the same level as what you replaced; includes cantrips)
* Prepared spellcasters can change 1 Cantrip per level up
* Most spellcasters get new spells added to their spell lists
* New Fighting Style for Paladins and Rangers to get Cantrips from the Cleric and Druid lists, respectively (change 1 per level up)
* New Fighting Styles for martial classes
* Significant Monk enhancements

There's lots of other changes/enhancements, those are just the big ones I've picked out.

Gwideon

@Yuuki That is an interesting thought.

GcL

@Gwideon Oh yeah. It's a mechanically terrible choice for rolling dice.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Ranger subclasses outside of the PHB.

Gwideon

depending on how it's executed that could be really nice

anyways I'm gonna rant about something else. I don't know if anyone else has encountered this but dms that don't allow for anything outside of the PHB annoy me to no end.

I get it sometimes but PHB +1 exists for a reason. Sorry I'll shut up

goodguy5

@Xirema what's this in reference to?

Gwideon

20:44

@goodguy5 New UA

goodguy5

ah

NautArch

@Gwideon And many casters can feel that way with their cantrips when come up against enemies who are resistant/immune to fire/cold/necrotic. But I hear what you're saying, I just think that others also have issues like that.

Gwideon

@NautArch True but I feel that casters are so much more useful and have more options than the vanilla ranger. anyways I agree that ranger isn't the only class that needs a buff.

Xirema

@Gwideon Literally the only reason I restricted UA for my campaign is because I didn't want to overwhelm the (mostly newer) players with the Tyranny of Choice problem. I'm going to open it up once we finish the current campaign module.

NautArch

@Gwideon ALthough on the flipside, caster's don't generate as much damage consistently as the ranger does.

Xirema

20:50

I still wish they gave Sorcerers the ability to change their Metamagics on a long rest. Or even just on level up.

Gwideon

@Xirema oh I'm fine with restricting stuff but I think restricting it to only PHB is a bit much to me.

Xirema

@Gwideon That's kind of what I mean. I don't think there's a good reason to restrict actual sourcebooks.

It's not like we're in 3.5 land, where every published sourcebook was basically UA levels of unbalanced.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Yes, the only Ranger I played PHB was a Hunter. Did not play Beast Master.

I am still bummed that in XGTE they didn't add "domain spells" for BM and H as an adjunct to keep them in the same template as the three new ones.

NautArch

@Xirema although ravnica/eberron introduce some weird stuff

Gwideon

@NautArch Yeah WotC has been pretty good at balancing 5e source books so I don't get why some DMs insist on PHB only. sorry I'm just kinda complaining as I've had a couple of dms like this

Xirema

20:56

@NautArch They do, but even among the Ravnica stuff, the only thing I've had to put a check on is the Background spellcasting features.

And that stuff's not even really all that busted, it just expands the spell list for a few characters.

NautArch

@Xirema some of the races I find kinda odd. And hard to fit into the world 'normally'. But I may just be overthinking it. It's even odd when I chose to make a goblin character from Volos.

Xirema

@NautArch I can respect that, although when your campaign already has a Tortle Monk/Barbarian, the sudden appearance of a Loxodon Celestial Warlock is something that's easier to take in stride.

Gwideon

Anyways I'll shut up about all of this

NautArch

@Gwideon Why? this is what we do here :)

@Xirema very very true :P

Gwideon

don't want to cause an arguement

sevenbrokenbricks

21:05

so.... does anyone else have any thoughts about what's really going on with that "multiple advantage" question?

NautArch

@Xirema With races that aren't as 'familiar', I usually have that generate both positive and negative consequences (moreso than with more common races). But both can influence a roleplay encounter.

Gwideon

@sevenbrokenbricks What do you mean?

NautArch

@sevenbrokenbricks This is a tough one,and we've already moved some discussion over to Not A Bar.

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: Does Enthrall make targets require perception checks to perceive anything other than the caster?

From the description of the enthrall spell (emphasis mine): You weave a distracting string of words, causing creatures of your choice that you can see within range and that can hear you to make a Wisdom saving throw. [...] On a failed save, the target has disadvantage on Wisdom (Perception) c...

NautArch

-9

Q: If multiple sources grant advantage do you have advantage multiple times but still roll +1d20?

When multiple situations give you advantage, the rules for Advantage and Disadvantage do not say you only have advantage once, they say you only roll one additional d20: If two favorable situations grant advantage, for example, you still roll only one additional d20. The typical language fo...

dnd-5e advantage-and-disadvantage

sevenbrokenbricks

21:08

hoo boy...

NautArch

@sevenbrokenbricks I know you want to help, but at some point you need to consider diminishing returns.

sevenbrokenbricks

this is true

NautArch

@sevenbrokenbricks and your own sanity

Gwideon

@sevenbrokenbricks What's happening here? is the op being problematic. I'm Willing to have a conversation with them if they are

NautArch

@Gwideon There's a lot to unpack. I'd recommend going through the comments and chat logs under the answers.

sevenbrokenbricks

21:13

a number of comments have been removed already, I think there's been either two or three passes

GcL

@NautArch "Do you have advantage multiple times?" Doesn't matter. The result is the same. Right?

Gwideon

I don't see any chat logs and I can't see deleted stuff

also yeah you just do or do not have advantage

NautArch

@Gwideon there's a log under Rykara's answer

GcL

@Gwideon Sure, but conceptualizing it as having multiple or it being an on-off switch doesn't really matter since if you have any of the opposite, it's all a wash.

Gwideon

this feels like a rules lawyer type question

sevenbrokenbricks

21:15

@GcL and questions about literally nothing tend not to be the real question, hence asking for use cases... but apparently the OP is just in disbelief that the question is so unclear that we would need one? and that looks like it's starting to result in hurt feelings

GcL

@Gwideon For some, that's part of the fun.

sevenbrokenbricks

actually, that reminds me

Xirema

@sevenbrokenbricks In their defense, the comments + chat logs don't give me the sense that anyone actually tried to drill into that specific request for clarification.

David Coffron

I think the samurai fighter is the only use case in the game where the ambiguity would matter

Xirema

A lot of people keep hammering on the "well, it's mechanically the same, so why does it matter?" question, and I get the sense that that prior is what's actually being interrogated.

GcL

21:18

@sevenbrokenbricks I think the original question was pretty clear, "If multiple sources grand advantage, do you have advantage multiple times but still roll only one additional d20?" Looks like there was a bit of an edit tantrum after that.

sevenbrokenbricks

edit tantrum, I remember that happening

GcL

@Xirema If the outcome is the same either way is it "six" or a "half dozen"? I must know /S

Xirema

@GcL Right, and the only problem with that kind of question is like the "if a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound" philosophy question: what mechanical consequence are you trying to wring out of that semantic difference.

V2Blast

@GcL Tea!

Xirema

Because if there is a mechanical consequence, as Red_Orca suggested, then maybe there's a good case for the validity of the question.

GcL

21:20

@Xirema the first one had a mechanical implication. Yes? No? you still roll one additional d20. Choose your own internal model.

David Coffron

It feels like the situation where you are trying to trap someone in a debate by getting them to agree to a semantic item, and then try to claim that the agreement on some semantic supports another point

GcL

@DavidCoffron Semantic inference? That's fun. I'd flip that and try to bait someone into writing a formal ontology.

Xirema

@GcL Well, my general sense is to look at it like a programmer: if I have two functions, both implemented differently, but which both produce the same outcome for all possible inputs, then there's no reason to treat them differently. The only reason to care is if there actually is a different output for one (or more) of the inputs.

GcL

You can have an OWL.

David Coffron

Reminds me of the "we both have a set of beliefs, therefore each of beliefs have the same merit" argument in apologetics

NautArch

21:21

Let's all remember to stay focused on the question and not on the querent, please.

2

Xirema

So if they think those different models can and do produce a different outcome, I'm interested.

GcL

@Xirema "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

sevenbrokenbricks

@Xirema Hence us asking "show us a situation where it would do so"

David Coffron

@Xirema the black box analogy. I like

Xirema

@sevenbrokenbricks Yeah, but the comments + chat log (at least what's there; I can't see deleted comments) don't seem to actually ask that question, in those words.

Not until after their most recent comment from 7 hours ago, at any rate.

sevenbrokenbricks

21:24

I know I asked once in now-deleted, I think someone else did but I don't know who

Xirema

@sevenbrokenbricks Fair enough.

GcL

@sevenbrokenbricks You get advantage twice? Happens all the time. Heck, our table tallies weird stuff like that. How many times did you roll "snake eyes" (double 1's) or "snake balls" (double 2's)

sevenbrokenbricks

@GcL Hoo boy XD

GcL

There's rewards and penalties too. Well... penalties are only per 10 puns. Pun tax it's called.

Here's something that was baking my noodle a while ago: "Invisible and in the area affected by silence, can you not be hiding?"

David Coffron

To be fair; I think he is right (in the chat logs). Having three sources of advantage isn't the same as having one source of advantage. It just resolves as the same outcome

But the Samurai fighter forgoing advantage doesn't allow you to break apart the sources, you lose 'em all or none of them

GcL

21:30

@DavidCoffron I concur. In one case there's one and in the other there's three. Those seem like different numbers.

David Coffron

@GcL Smell?

NautArch

@GcL But with advantage, doesn't 1=3?

David Coffron

@NautArch It has the same potency, but you technically have three sources still

GcL

Oh, the outcome is the same, but 1 and 3 are totally different numbers.

NautArch

@DavidCoffron So it's more like the answer to their question is "yes, but it just doesn't matter"

David Coffron

21:32

It's like how the magnitude of 1/4 and 25/100 is the same, but with 25 screaming kids out of 100 you have a lot more problems on your hand.

@NautArch Right

NautArch

It just doesn't matter!!!!!

►

GcL

@DavidCoffron Hiding is just unseen and unheard.

@DavidCoffron I feel like there's the spark of a magic potion or item there with the name "silent butt deadly"

Xirema

@DavidCoffron I think this might be the kind of scenario worth interrogating. Because it's not actually clear to me from a rules-support perspective that this is obviously correct.

@DavidCoffron (I suspect you are correct, but the wording of the feature makes it non-obvious, IMO)

NautArch

@Xirema In a way, it reminds of the Diviner Portent and it's use on advantage/disadvantage.

David Coffron

@Xirema I like the argument from Rykara:

"But the fighter can't forego something and still have it. This isn't a rules issue. It's one of basic logic"

GcL

21:37

@Xirema True. That would hinge on what it means to "forgo" advantage.

David Coffron

Although I'd word it differently. Since the Samurai is forgoing advantage he loses it no matter the number of sources

GcL

@DavidCoffron I concur with that interpretation.

David Coffron

I think the hiding situation boils down to the [most basic rules:](https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/introduction#HowtoPlay)

1. The DM describes the environment.
2. The players describe what they want to do.
3. The DM narrates the results of the adventurers’ actions.

If the other characters have no way to detect the player characters, you don't need to use the hiding rules. Just narrate that the invisible silence creatures are undetected.

sevenbrokenbricks

also, apparently I hit the reputation cap last night, what happens to rep beyond the cap? does it just get pushed back to the next day?

V2Blast

@Gwideon Also in SCAG :)

GcL

21:46

@sevenbrokenbricks You get a feather in it and call it macaroni /S

sevenbrokenbricks

Hahaha

V2Blast

Interesting! Perhaps it was me :P
The DDB folks did offer to keep my Legendary Bundle updated due to my frequent helpful issue reports and such... Wasn't sure they were going to include the Italian PHB in that since it's a translation and not a different book.

...Nope, I'm directed to the marketplace if I view anything besides the table of contents

Xirema

@sevenbrokenbricks You just lose the rep. It's a system designed to prevent rep farming off a single extremely highly visited post. The rep system is intended to reflect continuous contributions to the community, not a single extremely well received post (although the cap is per day, not per post, so if a post gets a lot of attention over time you'll still get lots of rep for it).

sevenbrokenbricks

Ok, that makes sense

Thanks

Xirema

Oh, so reviewing the UA, apparently they accidentally gave the spell Aid to Rangers as a 1st level spell. XD

Interesting flex.

Gwideon

22:02

@Xirema Oh geez that's pretty freaking powerful

fectin

So regarding this question: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/158950/25662

Do we have a consensus on whether something like that is a duplicate?

It looks like one to me, but I’m having a hard time expressing why other than that the two are tightly related and share an answer.

Someone_Evil

@fectin I mean generally consensus would be set by people voting

Xirema

@fectin It'll depend on how people vote, but I don't think they're duplicate questions.

Related, yes, but "is this 3.0 or 3.5" is not the same as "how do I tell if this [3.0 or 3.5] book is official"

fectin

Fair point, let me rephrase: is there a meta topic with a clear consensus on how to evaluate duplicate-ness of similar questions?

Hot RPG Questions

14

Q: Everybody knows how to make magical items. What about magical "places"?

I've been running a Pathfinder 1e game for several years now, for a group of very inventive players that come from all sorts of walks of life. This situation is from the game session that happened over the weekend. One of my players set up to create a (honestly, rather amazing) special forge f...

pathfinder-1e magic-items crafting

Rubiksmoose

22:09

@fectin There is!

12

Q: If an answer to question A can be found in question B, should we close A as duplicate of B?

Related: Non-duplicate question with answer in another question Should/can we change the Duplicate notification? Situation — there are two different questions Aq and Bq. Question Aq has a specific answer Aa. Question Bq has a good detailed answer, which includes points Aa, Ba and Ca. Should ...

discussion faq duplicates closing-questions duplicate-answers

@fectin This one is helpful in general though maybe not in this case (I haven't yet had time to take a close look).

It is probably the most referenced Q&A we have on dupes though.

fectin

Perfect, thanks!

Based on that, I have confidence that my opinion aligns with community recognized good practice, etc.

KorvinStarmast

22:27

@fectin Welcome to the Borg. How does out newly assimilated one feel? 8^D

Rubiksmoose

@fectin Glad it helped =)

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch This seems to have ended the conversation.

The Oracle

23:49

1

Q: Psychic tag clean-up

Per this discussion, I’ve cleaned up most of the confusion with psychic. The only steps discussed that I haven’t done is synonymizing psychic with the new psychic-class, and synonymizing psychic-magic with the new occult-magic. I haven’t taken these steps because I can’t—suggesting a tag synonym ...

discussion tags

BESW

> When Queens have to they do it by a cerebral process passed down in the blood.

trogdor

Are you ok? XD

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