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1:32 AM
Bits & Mortar is currently inoperational due to the hosting provider screwing up a recent upgrade, which removed our access to our own database. I'm doing what I can to figure that out. It may take several days.
 
@KorvinStarmast I feel like the font helps shore up that impression, too. Those're pretty aggressive serifs =)
 
2:03 AM
@BESW Mind if I lightly edit this to make clear that you or any chat-mod (blue name) can make the move, not just you?
 
Want a free iPod? Break an iPod in half and cast mending twice.
 
@nitsua60 I don't have the right to include anyone else in my commitment to an immediate and non-judgemental approach. You're free to include yourself and anyone else you know is willing!
 
Fair point! I'll put myself into that message and invite @doppelgreener to take a look at the last few messages and, at their leisure, consider also editing.
 
Thank you for joining me!
(Maybe change it to "we'll never" also?)
 
Free proofreading, too! Thanks =)
 
2:09 AM
I'm seriously considering setting up a low-grade traps dungeon as my original scheme was just too large to be playable. But I'm not sure how to handle somebody wasting a critical scroll.
 
2:34 AM
@nitsua60 Even funnier, I just had a st paddy's day event on the ides of march. I am either massively blessed or massively cursed.
d20
 
Oops, I am hosed
 
 
3 hours later…
5:33 AM
@KorvinStarmast The answer is yes.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:09 AM
@trogdor I feel a bit silly noticing only now that your avatar matches your name
 
@kviiri yeah but like,... I change it so much
I really can't blame you
 
Ever had the dragon before? I usually only remember only one past avatar, tops, and you have Twilight Sparkle at some point
(I mean, more prominently than now)
 
yes actually
when I first showed up on the site I did
that being said, it didn't take me too long to start shapshifting every couple months or so
I would be interested to know the longest time I waited to change avatars, but anyone knowing that would also be a little creepy
 
8:32 AM
The Book of Hanz, a classic guide to running Fate, is up on the Fate SRD! https://fate-srd.com/odds-ends/book-hanz
 
 
1 hour later…
10:03 AM
I can't imagine what the more "patriotic" citizens around here would do were I to joke about our national anthem thatwise
Although proposals to replace it with Sandstorm are invariably taken in good humor
 
10:25 AM
Hi, anyone around?
 
[wave] What's on your mind?
 
10:42 AM
I need some ideas on Wild shape
I posted this (I know, the question is bad for Stack exchange) rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/143159/replacing-wild-shape-5e
Basically replacement for standard wildshape
It's a big deal for Druids, but sometimes it doesn't fit the characters
 
Ah, cool.
I'm not familiar enough with 5e to speak to mechanical rigor, unfortunately, but there's plenty of folx here who are.
(Though, it's the weekend and chat activity tends to die down on the weekends.)
 
I would honestly just go with Cleric or Warlock of the appropriate domain and call them a druid.
 
Broadly speaking, I'd suggest trading out wild shape for existing features from other classes rather than inventing new ones, because it's simpler and easier to evaluate.
Or that.
I know in 3.5 there were a lot of class-feature-trading options including trading out wild shape for monk defensive/movement features, or barbarian features.
 
DnD classes are essentially bundles of mechanics decorated with trappings, but it's rather easy to change the trappings to reflavor your character.
 
@kviiri I once ran an all-cleric-all-the-time campaign in 3.5, because the customization available to clerics made them able to replace every other class in both flavor and mechanical roles.
 
10:51 AM
So if you have a player who wants to play "a druid", it's important to make a distinction between whether they mean "the bundle of mechanics that DnD calls a druid" or something more approximate of the usual definition of the word, which may or may not be anything like the mechanics associated.
 
Kind of both. He likes the theme of the druid (cleric doesn't fit that) and the mechanics. Just wasn't using wildshape
 
The classic example'd be the Wizard/Sorcerer/Warlock + others, who are quite strictly separate things in DnD despite being synonymous in normal usage
 
What effect does D&D 5e use wild shape to achieve on the gameplay?
 
he was more of like the celtic druid. I guess wizard with a druid spell list and some abilities of the druid would work as well
 
Put another way, what are you missing from the game by the player not using wild shape, which you would like to add back in?
 
10:56 AM
Well he wanted to be a summoner
that would be his focus
Calling on creatures for help, rather than turning into one
but the way I did it was too op
He got himself an elemental and then used moonbeam for everything else. I gave him two concentration slots
it was usually around 70 damage per turn, while monks were dealing around 35
I was thinking of nerfing it to... If he uses a conjuration spell that needs concentration (most do) Then he can spend his wild magic use to keep the concentration going even when he fails his con save
 
Hi folks!
 
Hi
 
So he wouldn't be using 2 spells at once, but it would be hard to take down his summon just by hitting him
 
Is 5e wild shape still the ridiculously versatile tool that lets a druid temporarily adopt almost any role necessary, that it was in 3.5?
 
11:03 AM
Yep
 
Because if so... hm. I dunno how 5e would word this, but I'd consider something like:
 
lets him be a beast in combat, ability to fly anything an animal can do he can do as well
sorry go on please
 
Well, you need to have enough levels to get to the really strong bits like flying
 
...wait, I'm looking this stuff up and... what concentration spells are you talking about? Conjure Animals just has a flat duration.
...Oh I see, there's an icon without an explanation or a link.
[slowclap] Good site design, Wiz.
 
in 5e it needs concentration
 
11:09 AM
That'd be what I'm looking at, yes. 3.5 doesn't have a spell of that name.
So it's not a spell that needs concentration to sustain. It's a spell that needs concentration to avoid losing when under stress.
 
Conjure animals is one of my unfavorite spells in 5e, starting when a Druid in my table started using it
Summoning up to 8 monsters is a huge pacing killer :-(
 
> Wild Power. Instead of Wild Shape, starting at level 2 you gain 2 charges per day of Wild Power, and an additional charge day at each level when you would have gained a new Wild Shape feature. You can spend a charge of Wild Power on your turn as a bonus action to swap out your conjured creature for another creature on the same list. You can also spend a charge of Wild Power immediately after failing a concentration roll to sustain a conjured creature, to treat the roll as a success.
Now your conjured spells are more versatile and durable while still having a limited utility per day.
 
That looks nice
 
Tweak the number of charges per day according to what seems like a fair exchange of power compared to Wild Shape.
 
I gtg. Lunch. I'll be back later. thx
 
11:18 AM
@kviiri Does that seem moderately reasonable within the 5e paradigm?
(Assuming Conjure Animals is reasonable to begin with, which I agree is an arguable point but a default assumption for this specific challenge.)
 
@BESW Up until level 20 when Wild Shape becomes unlimited, I think yes
 
> Wildest Power. At level 20, you automatically succeed at concentration checks to sustain conjured creatures.
....hm. Do 5e druids have spontaneous summoning like 3.5 druids did? Because if not that would be a very cool thing to grant.
(Spontaneous summoning is where you never have to prepare spells to conjure creatures, because you can always lose a prepared spell to cast a conjure spell of the same level or less as if that was what you'd prepared in that slot.)
 
No, not that I can remember
 
Or, maybe I'm overcomplicating it.
Could just grant the ability to cast conjure spells for free each day, up to the number of times you would've been able to use Wild Shape, and with the equivalent power level advancement becoming available as you level up (conjure animal, conjure fey, etc). And make those specific uses of conjuration immune to failure by concentration check.
BAM now you have the druid's wild shape utility without turning into an animal.
Hire me, Wizards. Not even in jest.
 
They'll let you write splat books :-)
In other news: we have the parliamentary election upcoming next month, so people are discussing the elections and VAAs. Of the two most popular VAAs, the main criticism against one is that "it recommends based on party, not the candidate" and against the other that "it recommends based on the candidate alone, not the party". People are hard to please.
 
11:35 AM
VAAs?
 
@Anaphory Voting Advice Application. I had to google the term/acronym myself
 
@Anaphory It's the sound made by a sheep with a speech impediment.
@kviiri [looks up] Oooh.
 
Do candidates play a big role in your parlamentary elections?
 
[is increasingly appreciative of the Bahá'í elections' ban on campaigning, nominations, parties, and constituencies]
 
@BESW On a remotely related note, do you have any experience with getting people to self-organize to work on topics they are not familiar with yet (in my case in the domain of sustainability) and what methods to use to start and accompany that process?
 
11:41 AM
Ooof that's... yes, but I'm not sure how much of my experience is transferable.
 
That makes sense. Let me give you some more context, so you can see whether there are any pointers you might be able to give me.
 
@Anaphory Kinda, but the voting method is D'Hondt where seats are assigned based on a function of votes on the candidate and their whole party / block. So a single popular candidate can drag along several less popular ones, if they get a lot of votes
 
@kviiri Voting systems are weird.
 
More specifically, the Nth-most voted candidate in the party / block gets a score v * 1/N, where v is the total votes received by their party.
 
@Anaphory Specifically I have training and experience in a global community empowerment and activation process that's been carefully developed and tested for at least 30 years to get neighbourhood communities trained in identifying their local needs and empower them to find practical solutions.
 
11:45 AM
And the seats are given to those with the best scores, in priority order
@Anaphory Yea. And sadly, there's no silver bullet option :(
 
@BESW I (vaguely) know that and I'm interested in that as well (though I still haven't looked into the community here in the region). I'm thinking on a much smaller scale.
 
brb
 
Well, that's the thing--we're very much about starting at the neighbourhood level.
 
I'm organizing a week-long educational spring camp in two weeks, and much of the time will be courses on various topics of sustainability run by other people. But we set aside an hour every day for people to mix and engage in topics that are bigger than the individual specific course topics, and I'm looking for methods to get that engagement going. I found ‘agile’ stuff like Open Space, World Café and things like that, but I'm still looking for useful things to consider.
 
Ahah. Hm.
Maybe main chat isn't the place for this conversation.
 
11:52 AM
Sure! Some other chat or should I look whether I still have you on Skype?
 
Whichever works for you. Or I'm on Discord too.
brb though.
Back.
 
@BESW If you don't mind, I'm happy to keep it around here. Just move this conversation to a new room and I'll follow?
 
@Anaphory If you want to have a ridiculously complex and fantastic election system in a game, check out how the Doge of Venice was elected en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge?wprov=sfla1
 
@kviiri That is fantastically ridiculous. I read that paragraph 4 times, and was laughing louder each time.
In particular compared with the next sentence: [By contrast,] ‘the doge of Genoa was elected without restriction and by popular suffrage.’
 
12:11 PM
@BESW @nitsua60 added my name
 
@doppelgreener Thank you for joining us!
 
@Anaphory The Genoan republic was doomed to relative historical obscurity, so of course the Venetian method worked better! (Grin)
 
@kviiri Paranoia version: each of the councils get reduced by lasers rather than by lots.
Mainly, by whoever survives the laser-filled obstacle course
There would of course be a lot of foul play to ensure you survive and others do not.
 
@doppelgreener Why not both? Lots of lasers
 
@kviiri hahaha!
Ok, so apparently a laser-filled obstacle course would still count as being reduced by lots (of lasers)
 
12:40 PM
Yeesh, this sure is a cranky downvotey SE. Any idea what I've done wrong with rpg.stackexchange.com/a/143282/904?
 
Typically answers based on rules and experience are favored over tweets
 
@mattdm Also: single downvoters can be out of sync with the rest of the community.
FWIW though the latest change you made, although minor, was a major improvement in clarity in stating outright how to handle the situation.
 
1:03 PM
@doppelgreener thanks. and then I got another downvote *sigh*
I'll add some more opinion based on experience if that's what people really want
Orrrr go back to not trying to be helpful
 
@mattdm You've hit a recent sore spot, I think:
20
Q: How should we handle answers that use Jeremy Crawford's now unofficial tweets?

AdamThe 2019 sage advice compendium has released, and it includes a change to what is considered "official rulings." Previously, Jeremy Crawford had the capacity to make official rulings over twitter. This is no longer the case. As stated in the updated compendium: Official rulings on how to int...

 
Ah, well that helps explain at least
And, also, really, thank goodness, because that was madness
 
Oh, yeah. That's probably a factor.
 
FWIW I did initially put in that I know that Mike's tweets were never considered official.
 
Oh, for sure
 
1:08 PM
I suspect that for the next month or two at least any answer which cites a D&D dev's Twitter activity will get hit with a couple downvotes no matter what context the answer gives them.
 
now I've got to go read the compendium to see if there's a chance of re-litigating rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/46574/… :)
 
But we've gone from an environment where Crawford was explicitly official (but we didn't know what to make of his apparent contradictions over time) and Mearls was apparently just wet sausage as far as his opinions mattered, to neither of their rulings being official and just being their private opinions.
D&D's development structure means no one person really has much claim of ownership over any of it, so their personal say isn't necessarily indicative of any sort of universal truth.
For a while that was not true, but we've gone back to that being true.
 
I think with a lot of these things, "figure it out at your table" is the closest to an official answer, which then leads to: should we close all of these questions (or answer with 'there is no answer'!), or provide guidance on reasons tables should pick a particular approach?
 
"At my table we did [x] because [y] and it created [z] result which seems relephant to your situation because [a]."
 
We should not close those questions, especially because we only know they're in this situation after they get answered, indicating there probably isn't an inherent problem with the question. And someone could always ride by with "actually [obscure quote] clarifies this completely..."
 
1:15 PM
That formula is golden for just about any question.
But yeah, unanswerability is not a Stack concern.
If it's provably unanswerable, that proof is a good answer.
If it's not provably unanswerable, then let it sit and see if one comes along.
 
Well, I'm going to stick with what I wrote. People can downvote more if they want. I've got plenty of internet points.
 
Gosh, I get stars every time I say that.
 
This will probably be a fairly contested question since the text could be read either way, and the more literal interpretation makes the feature abysmally terrible ("something of some kind is somewhere near you!") so it seems like the less literal interpretation must be the right one ("there's a dragon somewhere near you!") but, again, the more effective interpretation is a bit less literal.
 
@doppelgreener Arguably, if you're gonna go literal, it only tells you anything if there are aberrations, celestials, dragons, elementals, fey, fiends, AND undead present.
Like, if there are all of those but no celestials, sorry.
 
When the list ranges from danger levels of zombie up to celestial and dragon, "there's some kind of thing here" is not very useful.
"It could be an otherworldly horror bent on annihilation of all creation, or it could be a faerie."
"It could be one of the most powerful beings in all the world descended from their mountain hoard, or it could be a skeleton."
 
1:23 PM
Also, favored terrain generally makes this worse. lots of stuff could be within six miles.
 
That'd be a power straight out of Mystery Men. "I can detect danger nearby, ranging from anything up to a force that could destroy reality, down to minor threats like safety violations!" "Fred I think you just have anxiety, not a superpower."
3
 
@doppelgreener [grumbles about how Kelpien ganglia are even less useful than Betazoid empathy]
 
@BESW the showrunners of Discovery decided as much too in season 2
 
Also I just realized that the favored terrain wording is also awful. Like, let's say you are in gigantic forest and have favored terrain of swamp. One mile radius. Now, you find a small swamp within the forest — ahah! I can tell that there was a dragon or fairy behind that hill we went past a couple of hours ago.
 
@mattdm either that or in that mountain range up ahead. Or possibly over west where there might be a mindflayer in a village. Or possibly right in that clearing over there. Although it might be a faerie.
 
1:33 PM
Right. I couldn't tell when we were nearby, but now that I'm standing in the mud, it's very clear. Oh, it could also be a flumph.
 
Jun 29 '18 at 14:19, by BESW
I thought deliberately leaving mechanics vague and letting GMs sort it out narratively, so players can't anticipate what effect their choices will have, is part of 5e's stated design goals?
 
1:46 PM
hey there @NuloenTheSeeker, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
1:57 PM
@Shalvenay Hey there, greeter of many things!
 
hey there @Anaphory, how're things going?
 
Good! Frustrated about a journal online submission system, but many other things are good-busy.
Going to do some gardening now, I think!
 
2:13 PM
Hi @Shalvenay
Hmm. Mobile app doesn't support the chats?
 
user15026
2:24 PM
@NuloenTheSeeker The app doesn't but if you open them in a browser it has a mobile mode that works decently enough kinda
 
4:20 PM
Hi again, everyone
 
Hi! I have managed my gardening, now I can do computer things again.
 
4:36 PM
I'm running my research code with new parameters and playing the piano in the mean time
 
I could run some research code after adding a new parameter, good idea!
I spent half of today (5h or so) trying to submit a journal article through Editorial Manager, so it's a work day anyway…
 
@nitsua60 You are a player of Bridge, do I recall correctly? We were out having fun with a friend of mine and investigated the collection of miscellaneous books in a local pub. It included a "comprehensive guide", dated 1944, to a Finnish card game of Russian roots, called "Skruuvi", which at a quick glance feels like Bridge except the rules are also complex, not just the metagame!
I had never heard of the game before but apparently it's what the good ol' boys' clubs used to play around then.
@Anaphory ow
I couldn't really understand much of the different terms in Skruuvi, but I came to understand the bidding subgame includes not only choosing trick count and trump suit, but the game mode to be played, which includes two different kinds of misere, plus some more interesting deviations like "Bolshevik" where I gather one person tries to avoid taking any tricks while the rest co-operate against them.
It's like Action 52 of card games
That said, I don't really know if having more subgames guarantees a fun time
 
5:02 PM
@kviiri In this description, the actual play rules are just 123 words. Half of which are about who has the first turn, which depends on the auction and other pre-game stuff, which is the other 5 pages of rules.
I am reminded of Terry Pratchett's Cripple Mr. Onion, but that's just because that's a reference to Bridge, right?
 
5:18 PM
Yep, the game's not really complex apart from the scoring, and the strategy
 
5:53 PM
@NuloenTheSeeker Here's an idea for you that may be more within 5e's mechanical framework
As an action, spend 1 use of Wild Shape to cast Conjure Animals. You summon 1 beast this way, and its max CR is the max CR you can achieve with Wild Shape.
Or even simpler: As an action, spend 1 use of Wild Shape to cast Conjure Animals as if you used the highest possible spell slot you can cast.
 
@BESW yeah that's pretty much what happened when I found "concentration" spells too
 
@NuloenTheSeeker Forget that 2nd version, it's just going to result in animals everywhere and cause a mess.
 
6:39 PM
@MikeQ don't want to spring a whole menagerie on the DM!
 
6:57 PM
@MikeQ in one campaign, we basically have our main characters, and then we have an all-halfling group that we occasionally play for one-shots in the same setting.
in the next two sessions, both groups are teaming up and working together to create a distraction team and an infiltration team, so each player has to decide which team to play their halfling on and which to play their main character on. there's 1 main character druid, one halfling druid, and one NPC druid... we briefly considered having all 3 druids in one team but decided to take pity on the DM
 
@V2Blast don't want to give him more circus rings than he can handle :P
 
7:13 PM
scribbes "Conjure Circus" and "Conjure Musical Number" as homebrew spells
 
7:36 PM
this is a pretty clear "yeah, nope, sorry"
however, I would like to include a recommendation to a specific third-party book I've found helpful
is that frowned upon?
 
@mattdm All things are frowned upon by the Great Frowner, who sits and judges from beyond the stars
2
But otherwise it's probably okay to mention what has worked in your experience, and why.
 
8:22 PM
yeah, seems fine as long as you've used it (so you can support the recommendation with experience)
 
8:37 PM
In retrospect, a planetbuster is a poor choice to use when your opponent is holed up in Lemund's tiny hut.
 

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