TRPG General Chat

Baskakov_Dmitriy

00:00

Besides Treantmonk's guide, I also know this thread paizo.com/threads/rzs2oo6u?Complete-Wizard-Guide-Ver-20

And that's all

Ben

I would daresay something like this would be rare, considering the sheer amount of work involved

MikeQ

There's also the big factor of what kinda challenges the wizard (and friends) would be facing, both in and out of combat

e.g. the spells for traveling and resting, they may be invaluable in a campaign where the party's stuck in the wilderness, but less so in an urban setting

Baskakov_Dmitriy

Well, I am talking about PFS adventures. They are different, but have a lot of similarities, a lot of things can be generalized.

@Ben I believe, this needs to be done portion by portion, book by book. Then it becomes possible.

Ben

@BESW so I've shared the PDF with a few people - we should get a couple of responses :) blind playtests as well

BESW

Thanks!

I've deliberately left a few things ambiguous to see what people do.

Ben

00:11

@BESW Indeed. Personally I was thinking of suggesting doing a multi-print of the head/body/special cards

BESW

I'm curious to see the difference between a shared deck (multiprint or singleprint) vs a single deck for each player.

Ben

@BESW Oohhh… that's a good idea

BESW

00:23

A single deck for each player would probably be the most predictable and balanced option.

But this is LLKM! Predictable and balanced may not be the goal.

Ben

Indeed :D

I am currently trying to find a service that will be able to print this onto sheets of card. Might be a bit more expensive, but it'll make it a bit easier to manage than using paper

Plus the flooding we're dealing with is also making it difficult

BESW

00:39

I usually print this sort of thing on regular typing paper, then put it in a M:tG card sleeve with a Magic card behind the paper to make it stiff.

Ben

@BESW That's a good idea. I unfortunately don't have any of that though haha

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@BESW Where are the rules of your game?

Ben

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Page 5/6

@BESW the "monster with the most features" target idea is interesting

V2Blast

@mikemearls @JeremyECrawford noticed an error in the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica... I do not believe the weight calculation is accurate, unless a 6'8" Vedalken is supposed to weight 650 punds #dnd #math

Tweeted by magical_goblin on February 7, 2019 at 9:40 PM

The position of parentheses can make all the difference! In the "Ravnica" table called Random Height and Weight, the weight calculation should be Base Weight + (Height Modifier in pounds × Weight Modifier). #DnD https://twitter.com/magical_goblin/status/1093625573816127489

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on February 8, 2019 at 12:00 AM

This is why WotC should hire me as an editor :P

BESW

@Ben Yeah, I saw a trend of groups focus-firing on the weakest targets and thought that wasn't making for fun games.

So the weakest target goes first and the strongest target is easier to attack.

Ben

00:51

That's a good point.

BESW

("Weakest goes first" makes sure that even if you've only got one card left, you'll probably get another turn before you're taken out.)

Ben

It does work well for a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mechanic. Similar to how Ghidora is always ganged up on, even though G-Zilla and Ro-Dab don't get along on the best of days.

And good ol' Moth-Rad can have a swing or two as well

BESW

Exactly.

The main goal is to keep people from losing too fast though.

Most of the game time should have most of the players still in the game.

Ben

I like it :D

The other game I've played which is similar to this is very "King of the Hill", and I'm not very good at it because I always get knocked out with in maybe 3 rounds, so I end up just sitting around for the rest of the game.

I do still really like it, I'm just terrible at it haha

V2Blast

@Ben Does it have anything to do with propane and propane accessories?

Ben

01:02

King of Tokyo

@V2Blast Not sure if that's a joke or a legit query haha

V2Blast

@Ben Yes

to both

I don't know what the existing conversation is about

(as usual)

something about BESW's game?

Ben

@V2Blast Yes. and a comparison to a similar board game

V2Blast

I've never heard of King of the Hill as a board game

only the show :P

doppelgreener

@BESW i like the "SLINK BACK TO YOUR LAIR IN SHAME" :D

Ben

@V2Blast that's more of a playstyle, rather than an actual game - basically everyone vs the guy at the top. The "King of the Hill" gains points, while everyone else tries to knock them down

V2Blast

01:07

Ah, okay. Yeah, I know of it as a gametype in video games and such

e.g. Halo

Ben

Yeah

BESW

@doppelgreener I was careful to never make it sound like the monsters are actually dying.

Ben

A monster never dies... they only hide in the shadows until their time comes again

nitsua60

@Ben Is there a schoolteacher in your local playgroup? We're always good for a little arts-and-crafts-werk.

Ben

@nitsua60 I have 2 - however they're highshcool teachers

BESW

01:09

Even when the island sinks, it's just "nobody gets to be King of Monsters."

doppelgreener

@BESW What happens if I have -1d6 on my next roll and I'd otherwise only roll 1d6? Do I lose the roll by default?

BESW

@doppelgreener In the online text:

> -1d6: reduce your dice pool by 1d6 (if this would reduce your pool below 1d6, the penalty is expended without effect).

I need to stick that in somewhere.

...and I left out how you deal the cards for monster creation.

[sigh]

Ben

Haha

doppelgreener

You could make the rules/turns page have only 6 entries to give you more space. (There's only space for 6 players in the Collateral Damage sheet.)

BESW

Like, longer cards for that page?

doppelgreener

01:14

Yeah, if you need more space for text about rules or turns.

For example, the turn text which describes rolling 1d6 would be a reasonable spot to mention (If an effect would reduce your pool below 1d6, the penalty is expended without effect.)

Or alternately mention (Can't reduce below 1d6) on the penalty cards.

BESW

That part's easy, actually--there's a spot on the monster sheet for tracking penalties.

That's where the exception text goes.

doppelgreener

Oh good!

Shalvenay

hey there @BESW

Ben

Can't wait for the expansions to come out too haha

BESW

Hey.

Shalvenay

01:25

so, if you aren't familiar with Neomi Rao, she's the current nominee to the open slot on the DC Circuit Court of Appeals (the seat Kavanaugh used to hold)

nitsua60

Shalvenay

and, there's been a bit of a hullabaloo over a paper she wrote that touches on a French court case where a dwarf who wanted to be the star of a dwarf-tossing act sued a couple of cities due to city-wide bans on dwarf-tossing, as people think her mention of that case means she supports dwarf-tossing, of all things

Ben

Shalvenay

it caused me to reread the original paper, though, and I thought you would be interested in it as well @BESW -- want me to drop the link here or in the NAB?

Mark Wells

@V2Blast Multiplying the "Height modifier in pounds" by the Weight modifier (which is also in pounds) and then adding to the Base Weight (pounds again) makes me feel gross.

nitsua60

01:28

@Shalvenay ahh.

@MarkWells They should have just added the height modifier in stone, ditched the weight multiplier, and called it a day =)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 hey there as well @nitsua60 -- now a decent time for us to talk some more on Discord?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Sure--only 1/3 of my attention, though, as I'm helping some kids with math-stuff.

V2Blast

@MarkWells what a mess

Ben

BESW

@Shalvenay Sure, thanks.

Shalvenay

01:36

@BESW scholarship.law.nd.edu/cgi/…

BESW

trogdor

@BESW oh goodness

Nice

@BESW lol

Ben

@BESW brilliant/10

trogdor

Oooh a target mechanic

V2Blast

@BESW art

V2Blast

01:54

has there been a question about whether massive damage (i.e. enough to take them to 0 with leftover damage equal to their max HP) can kill trolls without them regenerating in 5e? I feel like there's been something like that

Crawford addresses a question about that in the Dragon+ episode from January 29, around 42 minutes in:

Dragon+: Q&A with Jeremy Crawford, 1/23/19

►

(tl;dr he says the Regeneration trait is more specific than the Instant Death rule so the troll would indeed regenerate)

nitsua60

@V2Blast not too many to pore over: rpg.stackexchange.com/search?q=troll+%5Bdnd-5e%5D+is%3Aq

Doesn't look like it, though a few are near neighbors.

V2Blast

thanks

nitsua60

np

Ben

02:49

Shalvenay

04:10

hey there @user52089, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Ben

04:39

What are you working on these days @Shalv?

Shalvenay

@Ben ah, got 3 5e campaigns I'm a player in (Nits' and 2 off-Stack campaigns)

Ben

Nice. A reasonably full plate as it were.

The Oracle

0

Q: How can the D&D lore question about evil/good and light/dark be reopened?

I asked this question (What is D&D lore establishing Evil/Good = Dark/Light?) to gain some knowledge about D&D lore, mythology, arcana, tales, stories etc.within published D&D literature that provide context for the relationship between light and good, and also between dark and evil. I believe I...

Ben

I thought my quota was 4, but 3 is proving enough for me at the moment haha

Shalvenay

@Ben starting a DW campaign in a week and change, and running some 5e twosies as well

trogdor

04:48

@Ben 3 or 4? Sheesh 2 is more than I can handle some of the time

Ben

Oh wow.

Yeah @Trogdor outside of work I don't have much to do other than chores etc.

Miniman

@trogdor Atm one is more than I can handle.

Shalvenay

so, I'll be up to 4 to 5 games depending on how things work out here

Ben

Though that is subject to change.

trogdor

@Ben I think it's that we are simply built of different stuff,

@Miniman that's fair, most of our group is struggling to find any free time, I have even taken a handful of days off the last couple months

No real RPG stuff has happened for a while in our group

Ben

04:54

Ben

06:21

There are 3 types of coffee mug at work - there's the generic ones - you know, the ones that "were there when the business started", there's the kinda cool ones, that are shared somewhat, "oh, Jerry normally uses that one, but it's not his mug", and then there's "No, that's Dave's. Don't use that one."

My boss made a cup of coffee in my mug. It even has a big Scrabble letter "B" on it. It's B for BEN, not B for Boss!

[Glares angrily at the boss while I mumble darkness into my generic coffee mug]

kviiri

07:07

I don't mind mugs, but I loathe our locker policy or lack thereof

Our customer has a clean desk policy and lockers accessible by company key badges. The idea being, if you have to leave some stuff there at the office, you can book ome of the available lockers and use it for the night

There's not enough lockers for everyone, but that shouldn't matter since most people don't need them everyday...

...except the first time fate dictates that something like 80% of the lockers are in use, people panic and start holding on to theirs

This is how you engineer a scarcity from ample resources

BESW

07:32

It's a little cramped.

trogdor

hmm

but like, there isn't much of a way for it not to be right?

if you want to explain rules on it

BESW

When I've got a more settled ruleset I'll work on editing text for concision, and designing the layouts to fit it.

kviiri

I agree that it looks a bit cramped, but still pretty good

BESW

And I got fancy with the card slots and stuff.

trogdor

it looks nice

kviiri

07:41

Native English speakers! What do you call those usually plastic little "shelves" for holding documents in offices?

So instead of a big pile, you can have multiple stacked piles!

BESW

These?

MikeQ

File folder rack? Folder organizer?

BESW

They're [office-related noun] trays.

Office trays, file trays, letter trays, desk trays....

trogdor

sometimes we call them in-out boxes

because you can organize them for incoming and outgoing files

but that's pretty specific

it's not going to cover more general use

(and people might also think you mean email)

BESW

In-out is specifically for a two-tray stack.

trogdor

07:45

well that one is two tray

unless you mean side by side

I guess that would be better XD

BESW

trogdor

Document tray works

that is probably about the best thing you can call it

BESW

I'd never call it a letter case, that sounds like a thin briefcase or something.

trogdor

for people to know exactly what you mean

@BESW or a file cover

or a full file folder

BESW

@kviiri Helpful?

kviiri

07:55

@BESW Yes, those!

Thanks :)

Carcer

08:51

[shakes fists at crawford]

kviiri

12:11

How's everyone's Friday?

trogdor

pretty good because it's past work hours

far past and near bedtime but still

vicky_molokh

Players disappointingly silent in not one, not two, but three campaigns, each of which warrants some preparatory OOC discussion before the sessions planned for the weekend.

kviiri

@vicky_molokh Gah, I hate it when that happens

vicky_molokh

But then again, I'm more of a 24/7 player/GM compared to most of my players or co-players or GMs.

So maybe I should just lower my expectations regarding other people's activity outside session hours.

kviiri

I got myself a Lady Blackbird game coming up, with me as a Master

I took the risk and set up a calendar for the next week, and said "the first day we get three players or more, in addition to myself, we'll play"

BESW

12:21

@kviiri Oooer.

trogdor

nice

Lady Blackbird is fun

even if you only play the same character every time for several games

XP

vicky_molokh

What's it like / about?

BESW

@vicky_molokh It's a free download game, quick to pick up with pre-made characters and swashbuckling/romance/dieselpunk/space opera starting scenario, focused on dramatic characters and escalating complications.

kviiri

BESW said it better than I could've

Basically there's the Lady Blackbird, a noblewoman escaping her life in the Empire to marry her true love, Uriah Flint the Pirate King. She's been aboard The Owl, a smuggler ship, which has been captured by an Imperial cruiser. The game starts in the brig of said cruiser, with the Imperial officers working on their registries about to realize who exactly it is who they have captured...

The players assume the roles of Lady Blackbird and the crew of The Owl

@trogdor Honestly, I think I would enjoy playing it several times to see where the story goes each time. There's a good amount of exposition in the PDF --- enough to get me curious and set basic expectations, but ample room for imagination to work with

BESW

12:43

I've run the opening scenario... at least eight times now, I think.

Every time it's different in awesome new ways.

In large part because of the GMing style of asking leading questions to prompt the players to take control of defining the setting and the challenges they face.

Nyakouai

13:55

@nitsua60 About our last interaction on "140679/can-i-absorb-the-soul-of-a-god?", I was trying to be humorous. My apologies if I unknowingly violated a rpg.SE rule

Rubiksmoose

Most D&D Campaigns Stop By Level Ten, According to D&D Beyond. Also other cool stats.

goodguy5

cool stats, but that's sit's optimization is hot garbage

@Nyakouai banhammer incoming </sarcasm>

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 definitely :-/

goodguy5

The classes by tier is super interesting. I didn't expect it

Wizards were hanging out in scrubville for the first two tiers, then they come out swinging

I'm also surprised at how prevalent fighters are.

you mean the short swprd? – @Rubiksmoose 9 secs ago

doppelgreener

14:11

those four graphs look nearly the same to me @_@

also pie charts are the worst and whoever made that should be arrested for using them

vicky_molokh

Ugh, site that steals my scrollbar.

Rubiksmoose

sorry it was the only site I found that had the info. And it wasn't that bad on mobile.

@doppelgreener same. In terms of showing differences between the tiers that slide is useless.

Then again, there don't seem to be that much difference from what I can tell. Maybe +/- 3%

goodguy5

two things about pie charts.
they should almost always be used in descending rank. Big thing first, then smaller things.

they should only be used to show very disparate points, such as US tax spending.

Rubiksmoose

I wonder why schools don't have a required Graphs 101 lol. Politicians need it desperately

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 that makes sense

though for comparing the smaller items in there (i.e. any but military spending), we'd do better having a bar graph

@Rubiksmoose wow, this is a very good venn diagram:

@jjoyce @GovWalker

Tweeted by AgedHydrogen on December 14, 2018 at 7:10 PM in reply to jjoyce

goodguy5

14:25

agree... mostly. the largest thing being six times bigger than the smallest thing is pushing it.

HOW DOES THAT VENN DIAGRAM GET PAST SCREENING?! DON'T YOU ASK YOUR EMPLOYEES? "HURR HURR DOES THIS LOOK RIGHT?!"

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener I laughed so hard at this (and cried so much on the inside)

@goodguy5 I just don't know. It doesn't even make sense is the thing. All someone had to do was ask: what are we trying to say with this? And people should have realized that they weren't doing that with that graph. So bad.

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 I am sure he asked a room full of people who never took Graphs 101

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener I am sure he his intern asked a room full of people who never took Graphs 101

goodguy5

honestly, the only thing that makes sense is that he has a mole working for him and asked that person how the graph looked. Then that person said "more points on each side, but looks good"

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 hahaha I like that theory.

Though I would be the worst mole. I'm not sure that I could stomach allowing myself to allow my name to be attached to something like that. Drivel content even aside lol

doppelgreener

14:34

@goodguy5 lol fantastic

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 The only flaw in this theory is that the mole didn't encourage him to change the font to comic sans.

nitsua60

@Nyakouai Oh, no no no. (Not that I noticed, at least.) I just wanted to head off someone else coming along and thinking "oh, it's blahblah, I should edit that in for the OP." Sorry if I came across harsh--any suggestions for tamping the tone of my comment?

G. Moylan

@doppelgreener @Rubiksmoose @goodguy5 More painful data: reddit.com/r/dataisugly

goodguy5

we've had a surge of pathfinder and 3.5 questions this week. Anything going on?

Derpy

@doppelgreener this is just.... beautiful.

G. Moylan

14:40

new year, new campaigns, maybe?

Colin Gross

@G.Moylan That's one of my favorites.

G. Moylan

it's such a horrible, wonderful thing

Colin Gross

The R group here solved a problem that an aussie was having trying to make a graph. He wanted a lollipop chart where each circle at the top of the pops was a pie chart.

G. Moylan

oh god my eyes cross just thinking about that

Derpy

> We need you to draw seven red lines.

All of them strictly perpendicular; some with green ink and some with transparent.

doppelgreener

14:44

@Derpy isn't it!?

Nyakouai

@nitsua60 We're online, it's sometime hard to tell the tone of someone. You weren't harsh, I just wanted to clear any misunderstanding, just in case :)

goodguy5

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 [screaming]

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 WHY?!

Derpy

(Disclaimer: my message above was an actual quote from a short comedy sketch - view it here if you like)

G. Moylan

14:50

the colors are automatically assigned by google you have no control over it

that is painful to look at though

Nyakouai

@goodguy5 Any reason why the pie is missing a part?

G. Moylan

the color for the category si probably white and the software didn't accoutn for white pie on white background with white text

that or it looks like they have a crapload of options. maybe the slivers are ust too tiny

Derpy

@G.Moylan link saved.

goodguy5

or some sort of "no vote" option

G. Moylan

would still have a color, I think. I use google forms a fair bit and I haven't seen a white color come up yet, but I admit it probably isn't outside he realm of possibility. My bet is it's tiny slivers for single votes. That thing has nearly 900 answers in it if only one oerson voted for a color it would be tiny

that chart reminds me of that brain game where you're shown a bunch of colors spelled out in words, but the font color doesn't match, and you have to say the font color instead of what your're reading, and vice versa

kviiri

14:58

@G.Moylan That brain game has a darker twist in that it is used to check if claims of not speaking a language are valid

Rubiksmoose

Wow I did not realize this, but does 5e really not define anything about the height of a monster's controlled area? It seems they seriously only wrote this in 2D.

Related to:

4

Q: How do the height and reach of a monster such as a hydra work in combat?

I am preparing for a session this Saturday with my players, but I have a concern about the next session. My players will be on a bridge about 20 feet high above the ground. There is a hydra under the bridge. According to this image in the DMG, a Huge creature is 20" tall, according to this imag...

dnd-5e creature-size reach underwater

G. Moylan

I would imagine it would be reach and their base size

large occupies a 10-foot cube, ish. + reach

Rubiksmoose

@G.Moylan I mean that seems reasonable but I'm talking about the fact that the rules only ever talk in square 10 x 10 (eg) and never that I can find, cubes or 3D at all.

Which seems like a huge oversight.

And is surprising becuase I was sure that somewhere they did talk about the 3D space occupied by creatures.

Nyakouai

@kviiri Uh, never thought of that, but it's indeed a very good way to tell or not.

goodguy5

Welp, fell into a hole from dataisugly, and found myself on rightcantmeme and now I'm sad

G. Moylan

15:11

@Rubiksmoose yeah it's further complicated by things like Giants that are clearly supposed to be taller than their base

the game functions in 2D planes stacked on top of each other, it seems

Rubiksmoose

@G.Moylan I think the tarrasque has similar issues.

G. Moylan

even dragons and their wingspan. They definitely take up more than 10 feet across. So that seems tp muddy up the base size argument

Rubiksmoose

20

Q: What size category is a reduced Tarrasque?

The rule for a creature's size is as follows on Monster Manual page 6: $$ \begin{array}{lll} \textbf{Size} & \textbf{Space} & \textbf{Examples} \\ \hline \text{Tiny} & \text{2½ by 2½ ft.} & \text{Imp, sprite} \\ \text{Small} & \text{5 by 5 ft.} & \text{Giant rat, goblin} \\ \text{Medium} & \te...

dnd-5e spells monsters creature-size

Mark Wells

@G.Moylan Now I'm waiting for some rules lawyer to declare that, since vertical controlled space isn't defined in the rules, every creature has a height of zero.

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells hahaha

G. Moylan

15:14

lmao

Paper D&D

Rubiksmoose

I mean, the rules don't explicitly state the the D&D universe has three physical dimensions.

Totally legit ruling.

G. Moylan

please no

Rubiksmoose

Sorry it is too late.

G. Moylan

cries in 2D

@Rubiksmoose oh lord whaaaaat

have we reached concensus on Delayed Blast Fireball's bead of light being a physical object or is "bead" just the adjective they chose for non-physical point of light?

nitsua60

15:30

@Rubiksmoose Except "cube" is used as a spell AoE....

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 Curses! My beautiful flat world theory!

G. Moylan

well cone and sphere, too

nitsua60

@Rubiksmoose Headcanon: 5e is 2d, and the planes are, literally, planes.

Blink is just a pogo stick.

Xirema

I'll be honest: it never occurred to me to try to Extend a Delayed Blast Fireball to further increase its damage.

G. Moylan

it's clever

Xirema

15:34

Which begs the question: how many ways are there to further extend the duration of a spell?

G. Moylan

I hadn't thought of it either. But you can technically only use one extension, you can't stack them

Xirema

32d6 is nice, but surely we can do better...?

G. Moylan

at least you can't stack the metamagic extensions

Xirema

@G.Moylan Correct. But are there other class features that extend the duration of spells?

glances askew at the Wizard Subclasses...

I actually can't find any other ways to extend the duration of a spell.

goodguy5

what about time stop?

I think that question exists here somewhere

Rubiksmoose

15:48

1

A: How does the spell Time Stop interact with delayed damage AoE spells?

Cloudkill states: When a creature enters the spell's area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, that creature must make a Constitution saving throw. As the affected creatures aren't experiencing a turn, they aren't entering the Cloudkill. This means they take no damage unti...

@goodguy5 good memory!

goodguy5

bah. time stop targets creatures, not an actual space

I like the idea of casting an extended dbf, having the barbarian grab it and just hold onto it.

Then towards the end, barbarian rages and storms into the room, smacking the first thing he sees with this 32d6 (average 112 damage) mini nuke

he's a barbarian, what does he care if he loses a few hp. he's got more

Rubiksmoose

Or maybe a character with evasion and resistance to fire damage?

goodguy5

bear totem. close enough

112 isn't quuiiiiiite enough for a trex (136), but it will give a Rakshasa a bad day (110)

Mark Wells

16:10

@Rubiksmoose Summon a fire elemental to carry it?

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells nice! that would be pretty fun.

G. Moylan

@KorvinStarmast apologies for the suuuuper late reply: they made a season 3 and have supposedly approved a season 4 as well

KorvinStarmast

16:37

@G.Moylan Yeah, looks like when I googled it last night my wife and I have some binge watching to catch up on!

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive title detected (53): Am I butthurt or do I reign in my players? by Julian on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

G. Moylan

oof it's a novel

KorvinStarmast

Hmm, if you have to ask... hoping this question gets a little editing for clarity and away from a rant

G. Moylan

yeah it needs some work. not only clarity but some grammatical stuff too

MikeQ

It's not a great fit for the site, but I think it has potential for good answers. It seems to be about a somewhat common problem among newer DMs. VTC until it gets polished.

G. Moylan

16:47

it also looks like they're trying to imitate critical role, which can only lead to heartbreak

and lots of frustration

GreySage

New DM in (someone else's) homebrew setting with gestalt characters, there is no way that could go badly.

MikeQ

@G.Moylan Yes, many beginner DMs make the mistake of the cargo cult approach. They see the memes, they see very synchronized groups who already know what rhythm works for them, and then assume that copying specific behaviors or ideas will yield similar results.

G. Moylan

yeah that's my big gripe with how popular that show is is people see that and think it's just effortless to copy that. It's not the show's fault and in some ways it isn't the viewer's either, but there's a real disconnect there in expectation vs results and I thin kit really crushes some people when they don't align

the only real solution is to have a talk with everyone in the group and set your own expectations

MikeQ

Yes, and since session zero discussions aren't as public in the memes and podcasts, the newcomers skip it. And then wonder why their game didn't work.

"But it happened in Critical Role!"

Yuuki

@GreySage Hoo boy, gestalt characters. For when you're indecisive but also power-hungry.

MikeQ

16:53

"If Matt Mercer / my other DM does this thing, then I should do this thing too!"

Yuuki

Don't get me wrong, I've had fun in gestalt campaigns.

But you need to know what you're getting into with those.

G. Moylan

@MikeQ I've had to deal with that an unfortunately large number of times in conversation alone

Xirema

What does 'gestalt' mean in this particular context?

G. Moylan

pretty much maxed out in all the best possible ways

Xirema

Distinct from Munchkining or Min/Maxing?

Mark Wells

16:55

@Xirema Any of various ridiculous optional rules that let you level up two classes at once.

Yuuki

@Xirema Imagine multi-classing without actually multi-classing.

Mark Wells

Min/Maxing without the "Min".

G. Moylan

It's a holdover from 3.5: d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

Xirema

Oh, so the thing where you have two class levels per level.

Yuuki

Maybe gestalt is slightly weaker in 5e than 3.5e since you don't have to deal with BAB.

GreySage

16:57

@Xirema Yes, it lets you do everything, or do very specific things extremely well.

Yuuki

But then you get advantages on more saves rather than just having the best progression on saves.

Mark Wells

Yep. As with all rules that support character optimization, it is literally the devil.

G. Moylan

yeah pretty much that. The idea has stuck around from 3.5 but 5E doesn't at all support it to my knowledge

Like @GreySage said: Gestalt + unfamiliar (and 3rd party) setting + new players + new DM + expecting critical role = not good

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