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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

Ben
Ben
00:03
My housemate had written up a shopping list and left it on the table.
Toothpaste - $4
Sauce - $7
Shampoo - $8
So I added:
This joke - Priceless.
For everything else, there's MasterCard
00:51
hey there @Ben
Ben
Ben
[*.wav]
how're things going? could use a little help, over here, actually...
Ben
Ben
Here and there. Doing some server maintenance atm. So it's pretty slow
What you need help with?
generating random tables (similar but not identical to random encounter tables)
Ben
Ben
12... 54... 32
00:54
:P
more seriously....
hey there @EagertoPlay btw, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
@Ben I have some NPCs, and I'm basically trying to come up with a "random activity table" to govern what each NPC is doing at a given point in time
Ben
Ben
Ah right
and I'm not 100% sure how one develops such things -- start with the desired probabilities and simplify from there, I guess?
Ben
Ben
Well, in all honesty my own experience is fairly limited. I did do something similar, to try and make the "trip between towns" more interesting, so I just came up with a list of random things to roll against haha
hrm, might have to see if there are a few other chatizens who would be of use
Ben
Ben
thie reddit link might help
not exactly "random", but it might be of some use... there are some "plot" tables in there
01:25
hello
Ben
Ben
Hey how's it going
decent, can't wait for a superhero RPG session tommorow
Ben
Ben
Nice, what system you using?
Mutants and Masterminds, I'm playing a very toned down Wuxia hero
when recreating the equivalent of pulp heroes, toning down the inherent shitty stuff about stuff written in that era is a decent idea.
Ben
Ben
Haven't heard of that one before
01:31
it's a superhero system and is a mess mechanically
Ben
Ben
Ahh lovely haha
01:45
hey there @GeoffreyLim, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
hello
I'm just still figuring out things to cut from what's essentially a pulp hero
I'm definitely cutting the trans-phobia from the core power philosophy by papering over the shitty bits inherent to it, Smiling Proud Wanderer while a classic of the genre, is still very, 50's even though the charachter has been reclaimed by the LGBT community in the region.
02:12
Yeah, the whole superhero genre is based on a rather troublesome "exceptional people can break ordinary rules" concept, and pulp sensationalism trends toward themes like exotification or villification of the other. Makes for messy reclamation.
Oh boy are we talking about Mutants and Masterminds
@Mi
derp
@MikeQ
it's a mess!
The system that can do anything other than entice new players to play
more about me trying to adapt a Wuxia hero for a modern superhero game and the issues that come with it because it's an old genre with troubling core pieces because of it
Why not use a different system?
02:17
The general tropes and biases of superhero media, they're not really baked into the system itself. The system is flexible enough for games in other genres.
There are systems that are at least aware of the challenges of the genres.
because it's actually pretty good at recreating superheroes mechanically @BESW
this isn't a challenge of the mechanics
it's a challenge of the writing
on my part
for choosing to play a charachter from the 12'th century
quite literally
@MikeQ MUltiattack, really stupidly powerful
:P
sure lets just give the ability to ignore a key bit of the system mechanics, caps
Against a single target, you still have one attack roll. It just adds a +2 to the effect.
yeah I know
but breaking caps is surpprisingly powerful
Otherwise it's a handy way of mowing down minions, which you could also do with an AOE power or the Takedown advantage.
02:28
Why not both
takeown is silly
makes minions more of a excercise in rolling dice
AOE is surprisingly effective punishment of focusing on DODGE
How many people have you tried to convince to play it?
A few? My comment was about how the system can simulate so many things, but the character creation process is so burdensome that it's often daunting to new (and experienced) players
Compared to D&D the system's mechanics are relatively simple. But there's just so many combinations of options, it can be overwhelming.
02:43
For a while I'd advocate M&M3e for everything, but BESW et al got me aboard the Fate bandwagon, and now Fate is one of the few systems I still want to GM
aaah
Fate is decent but feels too loose?
Could just be me from a wargaming background
That's how I was too, and then I tried GMing too many number-crunchy systems that focus more on building characters than playing them, and I decided that simple and flexible could be a better fit
Yeah Fate is definitely not very similar to say, D&D
But honestly that's what some of us like about it
like I said, wargaming background
Something I really kinda want to do eventually is to run a CHILDREN'S CARD GAME rp
Also it is kinda tricky to convince new players to pick up M&M 3e
02:54
D&D starts to feel like a restrictive straight jacket in comparison
"Before you start, you need to make 120-150 choices to define everything your character can do."
conflict resolution is by CHILDREN'S CARD GAMES like all conflicts should be resolved
"And by 120-150, I actually mean maybe 2x to 5x that number, because of skill points and equipment points"
not really IMO, there's much fewer choices
Mostly hit the caps and then spend the rest on figuring out what unique stuff you want to do
Sure, I doubt any player would spend all of their power points on skills and equipment, but still. It adds extra complexity to the chargen process.
Fate/PBtA appeal to me because they simplify chargen and put (relatively) more emphasis on the actual meat and potatoes of gameplay
02:58
fair enough
I find M&M 3e simple to build charachters for
probably because mental shortcuts from experience
Sure, once you're versed with the system, it's a bit easier to assemble PCs/NPCs. But for new players? It's complicated, trying to quantify the superhero idea they want, and then how to adjust the numbers to optimize it.
In M&M I intentionally play /wrong/
like the wuxia charachter I intentionally throw her at the strongest enemy
alone
hey there @nitsua60
ignore allies help and all that
because she wants a good fight
@GeoffreyLim Yes, it's called Millennium Blades. The board game you play with your friends, about a bunch of friends playing a card game called Millennium Blades.
(Millennium Blades was invented by Pritchard Leftfield, who went back in time to teach it to the ancient Druid kings. But their meta was far too primitive, so he returned to the present day bearing PROMO CARDS FROM ANOTHER TIMELINE.)
03:11
........that sounds amazing
I was planning on building crap magic decks
and having custom stuff
Hm.
Might actually be better, honestly?
One of the gimmicks of Millennium Blades is that you buy "packs of cards" that are one play-relevant card and a bunch of chaff that's below simulation level, and all the packs have distinct backs with the set breakdown on them.
So as an actual random resolution mechanism, maybe not the best.
aaah
The idea came after I read Wizard Soul
A manga that exists because the writer got dragged into casual magic
and got dunked on by a Monoblack control pauper deck
Hm. You probably could do something with an MB pack of cards though. Draw three, try to hit a certain star power, per-character bonus effects based on drawing certain elements or allegiances.
Of course the whole thing costs eighty bucks so it's pretty much a pipe dream at this point.
03:26
Yeah basically
the reason I picked magic is because Chaff is cheap
:P
Lightning Strike and shock
for the red deck because face damage
and giant bad mythics as the famous card
Not going to let players deckbuild because I know I'll end up with competetive pauper decks -_-
or competetive penny dreadful decks
I may or may not have turned up to a prototype of this sort of game with a UB control deck...
03:45
0
Q: Why are featured questions not actually featured?

lightcatThis question is based on my experience with bounties I've placed on two separate questions in the past couple weeks, spending a total of 400 rep. After placing each bounty the questions were moved to a tab on the questions page titled Featured. However the tab is actually a secondary tab whic...

 
3 hours later…
06:26
@MikeQ At first I thought that was about Mazes and Minotaurs, seeing the M&M abbreviation
nah Mutants and masterminds
one of the children of the D20 license
Yeah I figured after it started to not make much sense
You mean we weren't talking about Muppets and Marionettes, the TTRPG for puppetry hobbyists?
combat by crappy children's card game
everyone gets crappy cards
/everyone/
Or perhaps Muenster and Mozzarella, the cheesiest TTRPG of them all
07:23
Men and Mice
07:47
@Ben, @nitsua60 How do you envision an LLKM deck accommodating the game's current possibility of unlimited multiple concurrent uses of the same power?
Do we print one deck for each player and just not have monsters that can have two breath weapons unless they steal one from another monster?
I'd like to playtest that, I guess.
 
1 hour later…
Ben
Ben
09:21
Not really sure what you mean..?
@BESW I was thinking that we should/could allow for multiple uses of the same thing, like extra head for example, to a maximum of 1 each. So maybe have 5 copies of the same thing, but only one use per person.
If that's what you were asking?
09:41
Oh god damn it, I've left my coffee cup at home!
Knew this was going to happen.
09:54
Ben
Ben
Nice
huh
what game is this
We're experimenting with turning my in-development game Long Live the King of Monsters! into a card game.
Ben
Ben
10:33
@BESW I like it :D
10:51
@BESW ooo!
@Glazius i like this game company's name but they're opening themselves up to being trumped by a level 100 games
11:24
@Ben It's still clunkier than even a first draft should be, because I'm budgeting the time for this as "learning Affinity Publisher" time.
11:35
my card game senses are telling me that a detail like the slot shouldn't be a faded background element but instead a text line on the top or bottom
Yeah, my goal is to make the fade to green instead of white so the "HEAD" stands out.
Anybody know how to do that in Affinity?
11:47
(In addition to the word "HEAD," in this design iteration the card category will be defined by color and texture as well. A "BODY" card might be, say, purple with fur.)
11:59
something something make sure you never use colour as the only way of conveying information etc.
 
2 hours later…
13:38
0
Q: Is there any reason why quoting a dnd 5e spell in its entierty would not qualify as "fair use"

CaffeineAddictionOne of the Site Mods has an issue with one of the questions I asked about a specific spell. They have stated that it is not right to quote the whole spell due to "fair use". I disagree and feel that keeping the spell as a whole is better for people who are researching the spell and might have q...

13:48
that has pointed out to me the great disclaimer in the elemental evil player companion
"Disclaimer: For safe utilization of elemental magic, remember the following guidelines. You can drink water but not fire. You can breathe air but not earth. You can walk on earth but not on
water (unless you have the right pair of boots or spell). You can do a lot of things with fire, but almost all of them are bad ideas."
Snarky comment I didn't post on that:

"Are we sure that quoting the entire definition of Fair Use is allowable by Google?"
take that to rpg.meta.meta.se, mate
haha
14:47
@Carcer Does this mean that conjured water is distilled?
And conjured air is a perfect match for Earth's atmosphere?
I would assume that conjured water is pure water
15:10
@Yuuki I heard distilled water is actually harmful
(Like if drank in large quantities)
@DavidCoffron Sorta not really.
Tap water has a lot of minerals and other stuff in it.
If you don't have a balanced diet, then you might get certain deficiencies if you only drink distilled water.
You may be thinking of deionized water, which is actively harmful to drink since it actually removes nutrients from your body IIRC.
Ah. See in Chemistry we didn't really learn much practical knowledge (but I know alot about redox, stoichiometry and electrons)
@Rubiksmoose see. I thought they were the same.
I don't think distilled water is bad for you, but it is not good for you
as some people might claim
@SirCinnamon I mean, drinking more water in any [non-directly harmful kind or quantity] is probably better compared to the norm (in the US anyway)
15:20
I use my brita, but that's as much work as I put into my water.

and all water is harmful if you drink enough. Water Toxicity.
@goodguy5 hyponatremia (which is actually a not uncommon thing among runners)
@DavidCoffron Yes but paying extra to drink distilled for any health benefit is a scam
oh yea
I'm not sure how I feel about ... alkalized water?
@goodguy5 I put a lot of work in my water. I take it for a walk, I got it an exercise wheel, and i let it do my pushups and crunches with me
Sounds like snake oil, but I also haven't researched it.
15:23
@goodguy5 Podcast I like called sawbones did an episode on it - that doctors opinion was that it's bunk
seems to agree with you, @SirCinnamon
Though, there appears to be some interesting possibilities for people with (or at risk of) diabetes or alzheimers
The idea was popularized by a guy who treated cancer with baking soda infusions (or failed to treat)
@goodguy5 I'm very suspicious of claims of "helpful for this one subgroup of people". Chopping your sample population into subgroups and analyzing each of them is a common trick to turn noise into results.
oh and he got his PhD in 8 months
I need to relisten to that episode I think
Not that there can't be real effects like that, but at the very least, someone needs to repeat the experiment.
15:35
Spelling bee: sounds like the bee took 5 levels of wizard
@MarkWells In Statistics, it's called P-hacking. In a sample, if your subjects have lots of varying incidental variables that weren't explicitly controlled for by the experiment, you can divide up your sample based on each of those variables, and if any of the groups you form show some kind of outlying trend, you use that to make claims about your study. It is highly unscientific, but it happens a lot.
Exactly. That's what science is.

someone makes a claim. the claim is analyzed. and investigated. then verified or debunked (usually several times)
So, it's just step 1 of science.
A man with more intelligence than wisdom described the number of bits of evidence for a theory. Short version: you want twice the bits as required to express the equations.
@Xirema It is one form of p-hacking, yep.
16:12
Speaking of statistics... Anyone want a sneak preview of what I've been working on?
Show us your tricks, math genie
D&D, Math, and You: A Guide to Statistical Analysis: It's not even close to done, but some feedback at this stage is probably good.
2
Ben
Ben
@BESW yeah fair enough. I suppose one thing to consider is that each of these items are limited, which does have a big effect on the system.
@Xirema No mention of uniform / normal distributions?
@MikeQ I haven't added every single section I plan to add.
16:16
It could simplify your explanation of dice rolls and averages
Ben
Ben
@Slagmoth Crawford does this enough that I strongly suspect he doesn't actually want to resolve ambiguity. You ask him what exactly move earth can move, and he answers "earth", because that's what the spell description says.
[chuckles]
@SirCinnamon Distilled water is actually cheaper than regular water at my local supermarket.
Granted, I don't drink it, I use it for my CPAP machine.
@MikeQ The point is to focus on elementary mathematical operations. If I delve too far into the theory/academic side of things, it makes the concepts harder to understand. If a person wants to learn that stuff, they can go to their local Community College and take a few Stats courses. =P
@Rubiksmoose Really, you shouldn't put deionized/ing anything in your body.
It's also important to handle Averages in the manner I've chosen, because it's a technique that works for any distribution, uniform or (frequently) discrete, and you don't have to learn new methods.
16:21
Also isn't there a difference between "odds" and "probability"?
@MikeQ What do you feel is the semantic difference?
@MikeQ "Even probability" isn't as much of an amusing phrase as "even odds".
"Odds" generally relate in terms of ratios, whereas "probability" is more generic, but I don't see that as being distinct enough to matter.
@Yuuki absolutely. Ions are great and is one of the vital things water is supposed to put into your body.
@Yuuki As good a reason as any to use the term
16:24
Probability = (Event occurs) / (Total events)
Odds = (Event occurs) / (Event does not occur)
@MikeQ Hmm. That's fair. I'll consider updating my terminology use.
For probability P, the odds would be the ratio P/(1-P)
I've never heard anyone call tails on a coin flip "one hundred percent odds".
Odds are usually presented in integer ratios, in my experience.
Like "one in a thousand" or "five-to-one".
a 100% probability would correspond to 1:0 odds
16:26
1:1
wait
that would be 50%, right?
/me leaves in shame
I'm very stressed
a coin flipping is, for all intents and purposes 1:0 odds.
@MarkWells It'd be 1:1 odds
Also, the formatting on the GWF table on page 9 is killing me.
16:27
It will land on one of the two faces
1:1 would be 100%.
barring shenanigans
If you refresh the page, I think I've got it to a good state, but it's very wonky.
"one-in-one" is 100%
<Times event occurs> : <Total attempts at event> is how the "X:X" format works.
16:28
@Yuuki Except, like we just read, odds are not %
@Yuuki I think that's Probability, not Odds
1:1 != 100%, 1:1 = 50%
(Also, I really desperately need feedback on the readability of those tables, because that's going to be a big thing going forwards)
Argh! Darn semantics and context. Yes, the ratio "1:1" is technically 100%, but the odds "1:1" is equivalent to 50% probability.
@MikeQ I guess this is why it's important to explain the usage and stick to good terminology
16:30
@GreySage FWIW, my terminology use is consistent with the definition I gave on page 3 and enforced through the rest of the document, it's just not consistent with the Dictionary Definition. =P
TBH, I find probability expressed as a ratio of wins-to-losses to be really frustrating. Especially when you're not dealing with binary outcomes.
@Xirema Right, that's why probabilities are typically easier to work with than odds
Like, I've seen odds expressed like this: 3:6:4:9:2. The heck is the actual probability of any specific outcome???
@Xirema Five.
1/8, 1/4, 1/6, 3/8, 1/12
> 3 / (6+4+9+2), right? Wait, hang on, I forgot to add the 3 to the total! So it's 3 / (3+6+4+9+2), now I just need to find my calculator, punch in 3 / (6+4+9+2), and—darn it, hang on! Okay, 3 / (3+6+4+9+2), okay, it's definitely 1/8, now how about 6, so it's (6+3+6+4+9+2)—darn it!
16:35
seems like parts of a recipe (as a crude analogy).
out of a total of 24 parts, those are the odds of each part. and their relation to each other
@goodguy5 And in a recipe, that's useful. Because you don't care much about "okay, what percentage of this recipe is flour?".
I mean, whatever you're referring to, I'm sure has the components.
so, 3:6:4:9:2 odds of this year's superbowl shoes being blue:red:green:white:gold tells me what I need to know
@goodguy5 Really, you could combine the first and last two odds.
-sigh-
When I work from home, I have to switch vpns to access two separate landing zones that are often compared against each other and it's a pain
@Yuuki Only if you're colourblind
16:38
@GreySage Really, it depends on the lighting and your preconceptions.
(It's the blue-black/white-gold dress thing)
exactly
@Yuuki (I know, that's why I responded as I did)
@goodguy5 Yo dawg I heard you liked VPNs, so I put a VPN in your VPN so you can connect securely while you connect securely
I WISH I could double vpn
or even if I could just get ssh clearance.
17:04
can someone remind me of a logic thing.
a "not" in front of multiple "and" clauses resolves to multiple "or" clauses, right?
!(A && B && C)
==
A || B || C
?
no, that's right. it's
!A || !B || !C

I have such a hard time remembering that
@goodguy5 This one is correct.
thanks, boo
@goodguy5 That just turns it from a boolean to a string.
:rolling_eyes:
Somebody wrote this stupid dataset call.

Rather than
dataset(some filters that make sense)

they've got something like
new_dataset = masterdataset - filterdataset (not (a bunch of backwards filters))
and one of them is wrong (in that, it's not backwards so that it can be unbackwarded)
17:38
@goodguy5 "I dont know what I want, just not this"
Querying for the value you want is too simple! Any master programmer will tell you it's better to select all table entries, and then iteratively remove values you don't want.
@goodguy5 Yes. The rules for "multiplying out" negations are called de Morgan's laws
For tomorrow's lesson we will use Unreal Engine and a Haskell library to implement fizzbuzz
But we won't write the code ourselves - we'll make a Perl program to write it for us
that's terrifying, as a potential assignment
So as part of the appendix of this guide, I was curious what the stats were for someone with Elven Accuracy who consistently chose to reroll the higher die, rather than the lower die. The results were interesting.
17:46
@goodguy5 Next week: Define a Turing Machine that identifies Fizzbuzz by first identifying all programs that aren't Fizzbuzz
I think I've created a model for giving a character "Half-Advantage", if it were ever needed.
@Xirema very interesting! This is some seriously cool stuff!
@Xirema how different is that from roll 3 take mid?
@goodguy5 Good question.
@goodguy5 Roll 3 take mid is biased towards the middle range, not towards improving the character's roll. Although as a plot twist, common DCs are more likely to succeed than fail, so I reckon that'd still change one's odds of success for the better?
17:53
@goodguy5 On a similar note: Solve the three-body problem by first solving the four-body problem, and then removing one
I could see the midvantage system being used as a take10 substitute.
It's a moderate bias towards the middle.
(Had to quickly hack together a new method for handling 3 rolls simultaneously, so that's another writeup I'll need to do for the guide...)
how do lucky and elven interact?
18:00
@goodguy5 You mean the Halfling feature, or the feat?
feat
the optimal scenario, I think, looks something like
advantage
low and high.
elven accuracy reroll low
lucky, reroll low.

for the best of 4 rolls?
@goodguy5 Yeah, but that's the easy one. :v)
It's the other strategies that get weird.
"half (dis) advantage."

roll four dice.
take the second highest (or lowest)
And you can mix them up: reroll the higher for Elven Accuracy, but the lower for Lucky.
My probability calculator cannot handle keeping more than 4 values of state simultaneously, unless I start doing some bit-shifting shenanigans.
18:08
@Xirema Rewrite it using jquery
@MikeQ I don't know what that is, but I felt a part of my soul die when I read that.
I actually have two distinct versions of my probability calculator, one in Java, one in C++. The C++ version is where I optimize and clean everything up, making sure it works as well as it possibly can, the Java version is where I prototype and test algorithms and try out new approaches.
TBH, it's actually really simple to increase the state footprint of my program: I just need to add extra fields to my DieFace container. I don't do that though because it slows the program down, and while it still generates most stuff in less than a second, some inputs can seriously slow it down.
18:35
@doppelgreener [doppelwave]
@MikeQ [qwave]
Wassup
18:50
can't wait for more "MEI NO" moments in the game later today
playing basically a medieval knight in a modern superhero game is funny
What's a MEI NO? o.o
19:16
Master Enumeration Identifier Number.
19:29
@goodguy5 I read that as "rolling_eyes.exe" even tho it's not that at all. I'm losing it lol
Is it always better to accept an answer? I have two good answers for different reasons. If I accept one, I draw attention away from the other.
which one answers your particular question the best, if either?

Such as if there was an issue you were addressing at the table.
and one being higher voted than the other already draws attention away from the other.
One answers my title better. The other one spends far more time and effort to answer my personal case better. The first one is better for future users, the second one I'd like to show appreciation for their time to help me personally.
@Blaise There's a bounty system for that.
You can give some of your own reputation to an answer even if you accept a different answer.
19:33
I can accept one answer and give a bounty to the other?
ooohh
that would be nice
It's a bit weird though. You have to create the bounty, wait 24 hours, and then assign it to the answer.
So for now, I accept the one answer, but simultaneously I open a bounty to give to the other person 24 hours later?
Yes. Also note that you can leave a question without an accepted answer, just in case a better answer comes along later. There's no due date.
Thank you @MikeQ
Weird your name shows up as MikeO in the chat box, but MikeQ for tagging
19:51
the site basis is for you to select the answer that helped you personally.

If there's a "better" answer that didn't help you, then that's not the answer "we" (as a site) want you to choose.
I think there's a good meta somewhere
@kviiri Mei's the name of my charachter in the superhero game
OOC I've described her as a Punch Hobo
Not a meta, it's in the tour:


The person who asked can mark one answer as "accepted".

Accepting doesn't mean it's the best answer, it just means that it worked for the person who asked.
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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