TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

16:00

@Derpy Yeah, thanks to Jarulf (and others) for making that info clear in his awesome guide to Diablo ...

Derpy

@KorvinStarmast I kinda remember phosphor actually decreasing your int in Ultima 7 part two, but it could be just something the game pretended to do.

The books did indeed mention that "prolonged exposure to phosphor cause madness"

but I don't clearly remember if you actually lost int points or if that was only an urban legend.

KorvinStarmast

16:15

@Carcer Muchas Gracias for digging into the DMG. I could have sworn that it was in the MM somewhere, but it is in fact in the DMG about monster weapon scaling. Nice show.

Carcer

Yeah, it's in the designing creature rules

even says that a creature can use a weapon one size too large for it at disadvantage, so a medium-size PC could readily grab a merrow's harpoon and use it albeit with difficulty

then the difficult part is in judging whether the ability to hook a target and reel them in is inherently a property of the harpoon weapon itself or is a special ability of the merrow having particular skill with their harpoons

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer I'd do that as a training/proficiency thing during down time - I added that to the answer - but another way ahead is "weapons master feat" for an exotic weapon.

Carcer

I do like the suggestion that you should train to gain proficiency with such a weapon to be able to do that.

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer yeah, I'll think on adding the feat suggestion, but the point on "with disadvantage for one size larger" might be worth including. While it isn't in the PHB, that it is in the DMG opens the door. What do you think - add that to the last piece of the answer?

Carcer

yeah I think it's worth mentioning. It's what the DMG has to say about using large weapons and is very relevant to the question of whether or not a PC can use a weapon they grab off a monster

KorvinStarmast

16:26

@Carcer Done, and thanks again! :)

Carcer

@KorvinStarmast that's an alarmingly large DMG you've got there (pg 2778)

kviiri

@Carcer Doesn't have to fit into your hand if it's not a handbook

goodguy5

So, a PC is enlarged to large, They deal weapon +1d4. So let's say a greatsword. 2d6+1d4

A PC finds a large greatsword..... Is that 4d6 (with disadvantage)?

A PC finds a huge greatsword and is enlarged.... Is that 6d6+1d4 with disadvantage?

Carcer

@goodguy5 the dmg also says "you can rule" that a weapon two sizes larger than a creature is too big for them to use at all

oh, do you mean the PC is enlarged and then picks up a greatsword that is huge?

goodguy5

yes

Carcer

16:41

ah

Enlarge says that the target's weapons grow to match them in size and WITH THESE WEAPONS they do +1d4

so, the enlarged PC only does +1d4 with weapons they were wielding when enlarged - weapons they subsequently pick up only do their normal damage.

so that'd be 6d6 at disadvantage for a Large PC wielding a Huge greatsword.

goodguy5

ah, okay.

even still. 6d6

Carcer

yes

GreySage

@Carcer I'm pretty sure the +1d4 is to account for the fact that the weapon is now bigger than it was, so picking up an already big weapon wouldn't add the extra damage.

Carcer

well, yes, that would be the conceit

goodguy5

Though, that works for ranged weapons, now

Carcer

16:45

it is very frustrating to me that a greatsword that is large because it is a normal size greatsword wielded by someone who has been Enlarged does 2d6+1d4 damage and a greatsword that is large because it is large deals 4d6 damage.

functionally these are both large greatswords and they should do the same damage.

goodguy5

magic

it still has the weight of a medium greatsword, or something, idk

GreySage

@goodguy5 Simplicity of mechanics

Carcer

it's ruining my emulsions

goodguy5

@GreySage well, I actually feel it was a balancing concern

Carcer

weights are increased by enlarge

and yes, it's a balancing concern

goodguy5

16:47

Fine, then back to what I said "Magic, ...or something"

kviiri

@GreySage My Little Pony: Simplicity is Magic

Carcer

would personally be tempted to houserule Enlarge/Reduce as a higher level spell and have it change weapon damage in a way consistent with monster weapon scaling

kviiri

I'd houserule it to be Map/Reduce

Carcer

... hilarious!

kviiri

Get all sorts of weird effects reducing a group of goblins

goodguy5

16:49

@kviiri I see you there

Carcer

okay this is great

if you Enlarge something, it doubles its dimensions and therefore of course increases its weight by x8

if you enlarge a creature, all its equipment enlarges with it

if you go from medium to large, your carrying capacity... doubles

so you can carry twice as much but your equipment now weighs eight times as much as it did before.

Your strength doesn't change, you just get advantage on strength checks.

so... if you're using heavy gear you have good odds of being crushed under its weight when you are enlarged.

goodguy5

haha

Level 20 Eldritch Knight with great weapon fighting style.

enlarge reduce; grab huge greatsword.

4 x 6d6 and action surge

sure it's with disdvantage, but still fun.

oh! Mounted combat. Find a huge mount.

Colin Gross

@Carcer That is entertaining

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Or, be a bit less crunchy, and just go "magic" which eases playability. (Though if I have an ogre sized great sword I'd sure like for my Champion with an Enlarge potion to be able to do 4d6 + Str damage) ... and we go back to Mearls' comment about balance ... did another clean up, and shrank the DMG along the way.

@Carcer let me explore what I think Mearls is getting at. I have a Goliath Barbarian. Two attacks per turn. I cast the enlarge spell on him. He is now Large. he can use the Fire Giant's Great Sword. At Disadvantage. He uses Reckless Attack. Cancels Disadvantage. Two attacks at 6d6 damage. His usual Great Sword is two attacks at 2d6. Now add in GWM feat.

6d6 + 10 + STR (call it 4) for any attack that hits. 12d6 +14 on a Crit. Yeah, it's cool, Barbs for the Win!!! - but I think Mearls concern about the bounded accuracy thing is probably on good footing.

Carcer

17:09

I didn't look properly at the mearls thing and the link is gone now

KorvinStarmast

Sorry, it was a reference to a discussion someone at Reddit had with him. Mearls does a lot of pod casts, and he has 'happy fun hour' where people chat with him as he does a video cast of how to develop new classes and features.

Carcer

sure

having a strong compulsion ask a Q about whether or not an enlarged creature would get crushed by its equipment but I recognise that's motivated by wanting to point out a hilarious rules oversight rather than actually solving a problem

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Here is the link

@Carcer That's where "magic" is sometimes the best answer. When we get too granular, a lot of this stuff breaks down ... I mean, dragons violate the cube/square law in re things that fly ... unless we consider magic.

Carcer

I mean, sure, it's an oversight and I wouldn't personally be inclined to actually rule that an enlarged creature gets crushed by their equipment

but it is funny

KorvinStarmast

In my world, dragon bones are hollow, and their blood is about 1/3 the weight per volume of water. (Yes, dragon blood floats on water ...)

Rubiksmoose

17:14

Can I get people to give this answer a lookover for me? Anything seem wrong, controversial or missing?

Carcer

is your dragon blood napalm, by any chance

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose will do

@Carcer Only for red dragons. :)

Rubiksmoose

Thanks!

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose other than the fact that you posted it and I'm required to downdoot it on principle?

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Well yeah, but I just assumed that.

goodguy5

17:15

okay, then yea. I'll take a look

Carcer

although I will say that if I had a player notice that rules interaction and use it creatively to hinder an opponent by enlarging them I'd probably totally roll with it

Rubiksmoose

I just assume that all downvotes I ever get are from you and an army of very very clever sockpuppets :P

goodguy5

that's fair, also solid and well put together answer

Carcer

seems fair

does any class feature provide for the granting of proficiency bonus to damage?

Rubiksmoose

thanks!

@Carcer I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Carcer

17:19

now I'm wondering if you can construct an edge case for a monster with class levels, where you have to increase its CR in a way which would increase its proficiency bonus because an increased proficiency bonus would cause it to do enough more damage to bump up a CR

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose cleaned it up, please have a look.

@Carcer I think a UA had one, but I'd have to do some digging.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast looks great to me thanks for the help!

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Team Win, beers all around!

Oooh, sheet, I forgot to updoot. I have now corrected that oversight.

Rubiksmoose

Heck keep the upvote, give me the beer!

KorvinStarmast

Why not both! belch

Rubiksmoose

17:25

Beervotes all around!

goodguy5

a beervote is not a super upvote

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 super downvote?

goodguy5

definitely not lol

kviiri

We're going to have a "season opening" beer next week with my RPG mates

Gonna relax a bit and have some discussions on what we'd like to do this year

"Like a session zero to a whole year of session zeros" as one put it :D

goodguy5

session zero redux?

Rubiksmoose

17:30

Session ~~beer/0~~ infinity

goodguy5

Session beero

Carcer

wasn't beero a dragonball villain?

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Can't believe I missed that one lol

goodguy5

@Carcer beerus.... and villain is not quite the right word

Carcer

right, beerus

that's the one I was thinking of

goodguy5

17:33

Petulent cat god of death

GreySage

@goodguy5 Doesn't that describe every cat?

goodguy5

yes, but most of them lack the actual power to follow through on it

Carcer

destroys planets at a whim

what's his power level though

GreySage

My old cat certainly killed enough birds...

Carcer

/me reads this wikipedia article

... okay, so he goes to earth, chows down at a party, and his primary motivation for wrecking most of the main cast is that they didn't give him pudding

goodguy5

17:36

His power level is sufficiently high enough where power levels are irrelevant

And yes

Carcer

I always forget how weird dragonball got

goodguy5

very

Carcer

what

"Beerus then murders the already deceased Dr. Mashirito."

>murders

>already deceased

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 So, like 9001?

goodguy5

if I had to guess, I'd say around 1 million

Carcer

17:39

no, if my memory of the dub is correct Frieza's power level was given as >1M in his final form

goodguy5

oh dang

then 1 billion

Carcer

and that was the point after which they just kind of stopped mentioning power levels

Rubiksmoose

Basically the same. I'll call it correct. Somewhere in the range of 9k to 1bil

goodguy5

I found this:

Broly in Movie 8 is at 1 billion 400 million. Super Gogeta from vs Janemba is at 2 billion 500 million. So 3 billion is farrrrrr too low for Beerus who squashed Ultimate Gohan, SSJ3 Goku, SSJ3 Gotenks, and Fat Buu.. then he proceeded to beat SSG Goku. So at this point the powerlevels may actually be up in the trillions at the highest levels(beerus and above).. or at least 900 billion or something.

Carcer

welcome to dragonball, where the rules are made up and the power levels don't matter

hometime

later folks

kviiri

17:51

Dragonball kinda reminds me of Angband

(it's like NetHack with less secrets, tons of grind and a ludicrous power scale that starts at killing small kobolds and bugs and ends with you punching Morgoth in the face)

Colin Gross

@GreySage domestic cats do murder a lot of song birds. It's not like they need to. Most are over fed anyway. They just do it for fun because they're furry little psychopaths.

@kviiri wow that's a throwback. the devs thought of everything

MikeQ

@goodguy5 Where does Dragonball: Evolution fall into the Dragonball lore

goodguy5

it doesn't

kviiri

@ColinGross Not as much in Angband though, it lacks most of that "you can do anything... and die!" of NetHack

It's not a very fair comparison though... save for the DnD roots, fantasy setting, glyph graphics and the basic premise of dungeoneering for treasure and XP, they're very different games.

I think Angband is terrible, in its own, adorable way. I love to hate it, but I also love it quite a bit.

GreySage

@kviiri Dungeoneering: Killing things for fun and profit.

kviiri

18:09

@GreySage You can also mine in Angband!

It's not as profitable as treasure hunting though

MikeQ

@Carcer [shakes fist at square-cube law]

goodguy5

that druid swarm question is great

Rubiksmoose

18:33

Lotta interesting questions today.

goodguy5

I like this idea:
http://www.kenthedm.com/blog/2015/7/1/orc-raiders

Yuuki

@goodguy5 I feel like taking double damage from area-of-effect abilities/attack is mitigated by the damage reduction factor.

Yay, my Fireball does 42 damage instead of 21 against this group of orc raiders but I still kill the exact same number of orcs (1) and deal the exact same damage to the raiding party (15).

Ah good, the statblock clarifies that.

GreySage

@Yuuki The reduction is only on attacks that target a single creature

goodguy5

I was thinking about swarms of things to give a more oppressive feel without having to roll for a dozen creatures.

GreySage

So disintegrate would kill 1 orc (15 dmg), fireball would half kill the swarm

Yuuki

18:47

@GreySage The initial description does not mention the single target clause, but the statblock does.

goodguy5

at this particular juncture, I was considering a swarm of imps and/or dretches

Yuuki

@nitsua60 Distance is still important however. Death Valley is below sea level but it's not flooding anytime soon given that it's ~200 miles inland.

Granted, very few people live there.

goodguy5

19:02

I need to flesh out this stupid town for my game and decide on how this temple is supposed to be propagated.

Are there any balance concerns with making the Dretch have two attacks that deal 4(1d6+1) damage and changing their noxious cloud to a point and click trip? (succeed on a dc 11 dexterity throw or be tripped)

MikeQ

19:17

@goodguy5 Changing the attacks seems fine. Since the original cloud feature is a 10-ft radius centered on the dretch, you'd have to consider the range of the trip feature.

goodguy5

I was thinking 15ft

maybe 20

what I'm REALLY trying to accomplish here is have a bunch of gross animated hearts that can spew slippery blood.

and I felt like the dretch was pretty close to what I was imagining in terms of size and CR

MikeQ

Why not keep the 10-ft AOE that lasts 1 minute, but it's a Dex save and the consequence is falling prone?

goodguy5

1. I don't like tracking lasting aoe effects because I'm bad at it.
2. in my head, it points an artery at you and squirts

MikeQ

So it's an action to target 1 creature, DC 11 Con save or be prone, no duration?

I'd suggest boosting the DC and range, otherwise it's much weaker than the AOE

goodguy5

no duration, just a knock prone. maybe some secondary effect.

like has disadvantage on attacks for one round unless a creature uses an action to clean the blood from their eyes?

Zachiel

19:24

This is not really a question: why do D&D 3e gives you experience for enemies you spare but still has you gain no currency from them?

goodguy5

side rant: WHY IS IT SO DAMNED HARD TO CORAL D&D PLAYERS?!

@Zachiel if you knock them out, you can get currency

MikeQ

Because coral prefers to spend its time sitting along seafloors, and they never answer email about their availability

Zachiel

No, I mean, the right thing to do for good characters it to jail people without robbing them. And my party does that! But they get no money this way, and then they whine about being poor.

I know the right thing to do is to have some NPC reward them for their deeds, but it feels bad to tamper with the intended rewards

MikeQ

@Zachiel What stops the PCs from asking for a reward as a price for sparing their enemies?

Zachiel

@goodguy5 In my case it's because someone never checks their phone except 10 minutes before the session they can't attend.

@MikeQ what? That's awful!

MikeQ

19:28

@Zachiel If they insist on being Good-aligned, they can Bluff to make the threat sound convincing

Zachiel

(I want to encourage people who are not murderhoboes but at the same time I don't want them to avoid being bad people just for the rewards)

MikeQ

More generally, if you want to encourage a certain playstyle, then you need to incentivize it

If the PCs don't want to rob their enemies, maybe a gracious former-enemy will give them something else of value, like information or directions to a treasure stash

goodguy5

My brother in law just realized his discord notifications got turned off like 3 weeks ago.

And another friend of mine is just low-key flaky

Zachiel

Right now I'm in the middle of an adventure where players are finally starting to catch people alive to get answers, and it's the first time that I'm running an adventure where I have answers to give. Maybe getting answers is a good reward

kviiri

@goodguy5 I saw my best friend almost literally daily for over three years and scheduled outings with him over SMS. Then I figured out he never got my messages (he had blacklisted my number)

@Zachiel Hmm, this sounds like a mismatch over what kind of story you want to play, in general.

goodguy5

19:32

@kviiri on purpose?

kviiri

But being a battle hardened stack very you probably knew that ^^

@goodguy5 By accident :D he wasn't very tech savvy

(which is also why I never got too suspicious about him never replying)

Zachiel

@kviiri Well, I have one player who thinks that being chaotic allow him to risk damaging people he wants to catch alive but apart from that things are working out pretty good.

kviiri

@Zachiel Yeah, I mean... being poor isn't necessarily a bad thing. You could very plausibly have a game where everyone enjoys roleplaying people who shun material wealth and seek other kinds of rewards

KorvinStarmast

Oh dear, I am so out of touch. What is a 3.5 grognard?

kviiri

But if your players want their characters to be rich, that's probably not the case here

Zachiel

19:34

Ecept one player is very worried not being equipped enough in the long run

goodguy5

regarding our conversation earlier about the enlarged fighter with a huge weapon....

There is a listed Elephant Mount. for 200gp

that's a paltry sum

I think I know my next character

kviiri

I expect it to be subject to availability (that always weirded me out --- what isn't subject to availability?)

Zachiel

@KorvinStarmast a neckbeard. A dinosur. A gruff old soldier that resents novelties in his game.

MikeQ

@kviiri "Sorry, I won't be available to join tomorrow's game because I don't like any of you"

@Zachiel If the PCs want more wealth, and they don't want to kill NPCs they defeat, then the logical conclusion is that they should get wealth from means outside of killing NPCs, or that nonlethal victories should also lead to some wealth

KorvinStarmast

@Zachiel We used to have treasure maps as very valuable treasure/found items. OD&D ... the table in the book said "Maps and Magic" and a treasure map was a great find, usually.

@Zachiel I was under the impression that the "grognards" were the gruff old OSR fans who didn't like 3.xe and really didn't like 4e. Has enough time passed that grognardia can open the gates at the end of the rainbow bridge to 3.x fans? Has the world actually moved on? (Vague Roland of Gilead reference, that ...)

MikeQ

19:42

e.g. The PCs defeat and spare some bandits, so the bandits connect them to a local fence who sells maybe-stolen goods at half price

KorvinStarmast

Can someone raised on "level appropriate encounters" become a grognard? Find out next week on "Gatekeepers 'R Us" ...

nitsua60

@Yuuki Yeah, I just think height's a good first-order approx, where distance is somewhere between zeroth and first. (I suppose the mean slope of continental shelves is the number I'm looking for, there? Or its reciprocal? Yeah, probably.)

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ Beauty. More RP hooks ...

@nitsua60 I have a vague recollection from navigation class that the continental shelf usually coincided with the either the 100 fathom curve or the 200 fathom curve, but now I have to go and dig up some old notes ...

Yuuki

@kviiri My chances with Ryan Gosling. No matter how single I am, that's unfortunately not going to happen.

:(

nitsua60

@Yuuki Not with that attitude....

=)

V2Blast

20:12

My Saturday afternoon game came to an abrupt end. Apparently the DM had been thinking about it for a while. She said: "It was a lot of fun while it lasted but I think I've better found my niche as a DM and this just isn't quite it." I don't really disagree, but it was still a bit of a surprise since she'd never talked about it with us before.

goodguy5

oh wow....

what is her niche? like, what does that even mean

V2Blast

idk

goodguy5

well, that's poops. sorry to hear

Colin Gross

20:28

Sorry to hear that.

V2Blast

thanks

in unrelated news, an interesting little loophole (or not) in the 5e rules

Willingly ending your concentration on a spell in D&D isn't the same thing as having your concentration broken. In the rules on concentration (PH, 203), willingly ending your concentration is purposefully not on the list of things that can break your concentration. #DnD https://twitter.com/case_race/status/1082986878041837568

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on January 10, 2019 at 6:33 PM

When you willingly stop concentrating on a concentration spell, the spell ends. Conjure Elemental: "The elemental disappears when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends." #DnD https://twitter.com/PJP2810/status/1083434152643477505

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on January 10, 2019 at 6:50 PM

The distinction between ending your concentration willingly and your concentration being broken is only relevant when a rule tells you it's relevant. The conjure elemental spell is a rare instance of the distinction having meaning, which is detailed in the spell. #DnD https://twitter.com/kymlaar2/status/1083453094149513216

Tweeted by JeremyECrawford on January 10, 2019 at 8:06 PM

GreySage

...I don't get the significance. What changes between ending the spell and the spell ending?

Oh I see, the spell has a special clause where if you lose concentration, the spell doesn't end.

BESW

@Rubiksmoose Any alien encounter you don't wind up dead or probed, take the win.

GreySage

Despite the fact that "losing concentration" explicitly ends spells.

Colin Gross

20:44

@GreySage Yeah, seems like a non-distinction here. The elemental is around for a max of 10 minutes right? Either you stop concentrating ending the spell or you get banged on the head which ends the spell.

Unless this is implying that breaking concentration doesn't end the spell?

GreySage

@ColinGross 1 hour, and the spell states that if your concentration is 'broken' the elemental goes berserk instead of ending the spell.

I'm pretty sure this is a "specific beats general" situation, since 'break' and 'lose' concentration are used interchangeably in the rules. For this one spell, involuntarily losing concentration doesn't do what it normally does.

Colin Gross

Gotcha. Thanks.

V2Blast

Yep! It's because Conjure Elemental has a special rule for when your concentration is broken: the elemental basically goes berserk and is no longer under your contrl, but stays for an hour before disappearing

although Summon Greater Demon says:
"If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds if it still has hit points."

Infernal Calling too:
"If your concentration ends before the spell reaches its full duration, the devil doesn’t disappear if it has become immune to your verbal commands. Instead, it acts in whatever manner it chooses for 3d6 minutes, and then it disappears."

only Conjure Elemental seems to hinge on it being "broken" instead of "ending"

Colin Gross

@V2Blast I think you have to cast moonbeam and then dance with it. At least you could answer the Joker's question with an affirmative then.

MikeQ

21:02

@ColinGross If the light from moonbeam is a 40ft column that you can cast indoors or during the day, is it still moonlight?

Colin Gross

@MikeQ I think as long as it's pale, then it counts.

GreySage

@ColinGross I associate pale light with weak light, and moonbeam definitely isn't weak.

Colin Gross

@GreySage pale ales are pretty potent

Ben

Morning all.

Colin Gross

@Ben Morning some?

Ben

21:13

Accurate, actually

Colin Gross

Do clocks rotate the opposite direction in Australia & New Zealand ?

Ben

Well, they do run clockwise...

I can say that much haha

@MikeQ come here... I need caffeine :P

MikeQ

21:33

@Ben You may be mistaking me for a cuppa

Ben

@MikeQ Cuppa Joe?

MikeQ

@Ben A cuppa to go with your brekky

Rubiksmoose

21:51

So many question about my least favorite 5e mechanic: spell components (blech).

GreySage

@Rubiksmoose Which is weird, because for all practical purposes you just ignore them, or pay a fee to cast certain spells and ignore them.

Rubiksmoose

Which is exactly what I do lol

Ben

22:35

@Rubiksmoose Response: "Because Magic"

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